http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 en-US 60 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>robertteh, what is your impression about the people at youngpap?</p> <p>Are they brainwashed by PAP propaganda?</p> </div> </blockquote> <p><br /> And you would be the first person on this forum to be brainwash by PAP mentality.</p> Tue, 13 May 2008 03:51:18 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8082372 Arapahoe http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by kivichio:</div> </blockquote> <blockquote> <p>Understood Atobe, perhaps I was a little hasty in saying "bitching". No reason why we have to resort to personal attacks and that was admittedly hitting below the belt. But to respond to your queries:</p> </blockquote> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Great to know that you are able to&nbsp;change your opinion.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">In any case, one should be&nbsp;prepared to&nbsp;accept the same&nbsp;as what&nbsp;one can deliver, which makes me unable to resist but to compare to&nbsp;the Singapore&nbsp;Political Leadership being unable to accept the same robust treatment that they will so uninhibitedly&nbsp;dish out to the members of the Alternative Parties.</span></p> <blockquote> <p>a) Lowering the gas&nbsp;tax essentially means lowering the price of fuel at the pump. I understand the difference between subsidies and removal of taxes, but in both cases you are stimulating relative demand. I do not argue prices may not continue to increase if oil prices increase, but you're essentially rewarding those who use fuel and removing an impt revenue source. Do you not understand the same debate is flaring in the US, where every economist in the land has derided Hillary's campaign promise to revise fuel taxes. Same rules here.</p> </blockquote> <p><span style="color: #800000;">How can demand be stimulated when the number of cars are also modulated through the COE mechanism ?</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Why will you doubt the ability of this Government to find alternative means to regain their revenue even as they remove some existing one ?</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Rest assured that this Government will not allow any&nbsp;reward to&nbsp;those who use fuel and remove the important revenue source - as&nbsp;the Government can easily make the&nbsp;usage of cars&nbsp;to be&nbsp;made more prohibitive by extending the network of ERP gantries, raising the ERP charges, and prolonging its operating hours;&nbsp;as well as by&nbsp;other revenue collection means such as public car parking rates.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">As matters stand, this Government has&nbsp;already begun to quietly spring onto Singaporeans -&nbsp;on a regular annual basis -&nbsp;additional ERP gantries, extending operating hours, increasing ERP charges - all done&nbsp;without even the Road Tax being further reduced as ''assured so convincingly by Minister MBT&nbsp;when the ERP was first introduced when he was the Transport Minister..</span></p> <blockquote> <p>b) As to you thinking of a breakdown in public transport systems due to singaporeans not able to take buses/mrts... Well the substitution effect of those choosing to take public transport over their now much more expensive automobiles have actually helped increase ridership. As to R&amp;D for fuel alternatives to oil... are you serious? You want Singapore to fund research for this when supernations like the US as well as&nbsp;private investments&nbsp;are already&nbsp;channeling billions into alternative energy research?</p> </blockquote> <p><span style="color: #800000;">The public transport system is not immune from the market forces nor from the cyclical&nbsp;global&nbsp;stresses&nbsp;hitting the Singapore economy.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Taxis are already affected with a lower passenger count, and soon with the proposed buses being allowed again to operate on the same routes as the MRT - there is a definite cost&nbsp;advantage for the public to take the bus over the train.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">The public transport system cannot&nbsp;satisfy the&nbsp;innate human desire&nbsp;to own an automobile for varied personal reasons; and the&nbsp;Weekend Car may probably become more popular although limited by a reduced COE available monthly.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Why should Singapore not invest money in R&amp;D for an alternative oil substitute - especially when it has a large global market ?</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">By your reasoning that if&nbsp;super-nations are pouring billions into searching for alternative energy resources, Singapore should not put our toe into this area. We should then ask&nbsp;why will Singapore also invest monies in R&amp;D into Defense Science when Supernations are already in the cutting edge of defense technology ?</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Similarly, why will&nbsp;the&nbsp;Singapore Government&nbsp;draw more foreign investments into Singapore&nbsp;and also investing in their local ventures in Bio-Science and Pharmaceutical R&amp;D in competition with the leading centres around the globe ?</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">There are niche areas where the supernations are taking a different track from what can be done in Singapore - such as putting money in accelerating the R&amp;D in the use of palm oil as an alternative fuel source when we can capitalise on the abundance of this commodity in South-east Asia.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Singapore can take a lead role in R&amp;D to assist the neighboring countries in the R&amp;D for new and improved strains of palm oil that will produce higher yield per acre of land in these countries.</span></p> <blockquote> <p>c)when talking about welfare services you use Sweden as a comparison, well&nbsp;you state that "they take a fixed sum up front." Feel free to move to a country which takes just a hair under 50% of GDP in taxation income. I'll be happy to take the 20-25% income tax and GST anytime over that... Hidden taxes? Ummm GST is as crystal clear as you can get... Also, please note that Sweden is much larger than Singapore, has a hinterland which is resource rich. Do we also have cheap hydropower to draw upon?</p> </blockquote> <p><span style="color: #800000;">The tax structure maybe hefty on the Swedes, yet they are a happy and contented lot with a population that is faster growing than the other neighboring&nbsp;European countries with lower tax rates. The Swedes are a happier community&nbsp;and more so when compared to Singaporean with your supposed idea of a lower tax environment.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">This is largely due to the fact that even as the income tax structure&nbsp;placed onto&nbsp;the working Singaporean maybe low, there is a plethora of Government Revenue mechanism that is daily raping our wallets as Singaporeans go about their social and economic activities.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Yes, the&nbsp;7%&nbsp;GST is crystal clear and is&nbsp;all encompassing in every commercial activity that Singaporeans consume and add to the low tax rate that is imposed on income.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Did you overlook the other hidden tax paid by Singaporeans - that&nbsp;will include the import duties paid on luxury items, with the retail prices again being levied the 7% GST&nbsp;?</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Similar examples exist in the sale of automobiles when&nbsp;the PARF tax&nbsp;on the imported car is computed into its final&nbsp;retail price that is&nbsp;subjected to 7% GST - resulting in&nbsp;GST tax&nbsp;being levied&nbsp;on&nbsp;the amount stated as PARF&nbsp;tax. Please correct me if I am wrong, and I stand to be corrected on this.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">You may claim that not all Singaporeans can afford to purchase a car, we can take the basic item of electricity, with the tax on fuel used to generate electricity being priced into the electrical charges, and our Utility Bill being charged a 7% GST again.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">The infrastructure cost for sanitation is paid through tax revenues collected, yet Singaporeans are again charged on a monthly basis for the number of toilets installed&nbsp;per household.&nbsp;This computation method&nbsp;may soon be changed to&nbsp;sanitation charges being computed from an arbitrary estimated&nbsp;percentage of the amount of fresh&nbsp;water used and enter the sewer system.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Yes, GST is also to be paid on top of the sanitation charges.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">The cost of hospital and medical care is being recovered from Singaporeans who are unfortunate to succumb to the necessity of using these facilities; and despite the cost being supposedly subsidised. There is no knowing if these artificially and arbitrary&nbsp;priced medical bills are not first&nbsp;raised before being lowered by supposed subsidies, and&nbsp;with the final balance actually being the true amount to be paid and not&nbsp;subsidised.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">We should be astounded that despite our stronger Singapore Dollar,&nbsp;the cost of our&nbsp; medical services is not&nbsp;lower when compared to similar services&nbsp;provided in facilities with similar&nbsp;medical standards and best&nbsp;practises as&nbsp;in&nbsp;Thailand -&nbsp;where the medical staff is&nbsp;also&nbsp;FT, or similarly local Thais scholars&nbsp;receiving medical training abroad in similar institutions attended by Singapore students.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Sweden maybe a large country with a bigger hinterland with hydro-electric power{?}, however, do you know that most part of the country is inaccessible and uninhabitable for most part of the year ?</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">With a population that is only twice that of Singapore - 9,045,389 vs 4,608,167 -&nbsp;Sweden has some surprises when one compare&nbsp;her with&nbsp;Singapore in the manner that public funds are collected and results achieved.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Distribution of Family Income - 2007 Gini Index:&nbsp;Sweden &nbsp;22, Singapore 42.5 with the value 0 being the most equitable.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">{source: <a href= "http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/20429046" rel= "nofollow">http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/20429046</a><span style="color: #800000;">&nbsp;</span></span> <span style="color: #800000;">}</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Budget 2007: Sweden - Revenue $241.2 Billion Expenditure $229.1 Billion; Singapore Revenue $27 Billion Expenditures $21.5 Billion</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Public Debt 2007:: Sweden 41.9% of GDP; Singapore 101.2% of GDP - this item consist the cumulative total of all government borrowings less repayments that are denominated in a country's home currency.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">GDP [purchasing power parity] 2007: Sweden $333.1 billion; Singapore $222.7 Billion</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">{source:</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Sweden&nbsp;:&nbsp;<a href= "https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sw.html" rel= "nofollow">https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sw.html</a></span><span style="color: #800000;">&nbsp;-</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Singapore: <a href= "https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sn.html" rel= "nofollow">https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sn.html</a></span></p> <blockquote> <p>d)affordable housing for all. By this I don't mean everyone can afford to buy a HDB flat. That's not a god given right, but the Singapore gvt has subsidized public housing so having a place to live in while difficult for poorer income groups, are still within their reach. But as always, gvts cannot and should not cater to the lowest common denominator otherwise you end up with a welfare state like the US with its attendant problems</p> </blockquote> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Singapore government subsidise public housing ? This must be the joke of the century when this Government will&nbsp;seize private land at below market rate compensation and sell the home with the cost of land based on market prices.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">The US Government do not involve itself in any direct public housing construction on the scale of the Singapore Government, which has made Public Housing an profitable enterprise in itself.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Your postion&nbsp;in not&nbsp;catering&nbsp;to the lowest denominator will only result in Class division, a proposition that is against the social grain of the Ruling Political Party in levelling the field for all.</span></p> <blockquote> <p>Anyway, let's agree to disagree. I personally feel Singapore has done a great job by all the relevant benchmarks. Everyone has their own opinions and all the data spouted here won't change most who are committed to their viewpoints, be it yours or mine.</p> </blockquote> <p><span style="color: #800000;">It all depends on the benchmark that one prefer to use to measure the state of affairs in Singapore. It is always convenient to&nbsp;compare ourselves with the lowest denominator, so that&nbsp;Singapore will always be in the superlative class - which I presume you will surely not approve given your earlier position on this.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">If we strive to be in&nbsp;the same league&nbsp;as the&nbsp;First World, surely it is not too much to measure ourselves using the same standards as the First World; otherwise are we not deluding ourselves into complacency ?</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">If we&nbsp;always agree to disagree to avoid confronting the issues - can such a status quo lead to any progress to understanding the truth and find a way out of the quagmire ?&nbsp;</span></p> Tue, 13 May 2008 01:01:30 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8082169 Atobe http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <p>Vivian's "Bar top dancing will result in murder" Singapore.</p> <p>If it was a woman making that kind of statement I can sort of understand...</p> Tue, 13 May 2008 00:04:30 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8081976 Uncle Ver SG http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>robertteh, what is your impression about the people at youngpap?</p> <p>Are they brainwashed by PAP propaganda?</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>When the party failed to solve problems like rising housing costs and utilities and transportation it will have to come up with red herrings like youngpap or woman-pap or post-65 MPs to create hope or expectations but without the intention to throw up real good people or talents.</p> <p>We have many MPs today thrown up from YoungPap but have they made the difference to solving our many persistent people's problems.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Look at youngpap and ask yourself which youngpap member has been active in putting up solutions to the excessive charging of ERP or other real issues and problems as revealed in Shin Corp or Mas Selamat.</p> <p>None. All are just yes-men waiting for their turn for promotions and earning million-dollar salaries without accountability. The real talents are not within PAP but the migrated citizens or those of the Goh Keng Swee or Toh Chin Chye characters who today are being sidelined despite all their abilities.</p> <p>Power is the most dangerous thing. With power it will come tweaking of law and legalized corruptions and hypocrisy.</p> Mon, 12 May 2008 19:31:06 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8081218 robertteh http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <p>robertteh, what is your impression about the people at youngpap?</p> <p>Are they brainwashed by PAP propaganda?</p> Mon, 12 May 2008 18:16:16 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8081126 Poh Ah Pak http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <p>From the views given here it seems obvious that our remaking is cosmetic treating the skin problems and blemishes and not aimed at solving real problems citizens are experiencing.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>If any one hears of remaking of a country, is like this he will certainly laugh until he falls off the chair.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Major problems including rising costs of living, profiteering by HDB and URA and LTA and all the GLCs with all kinds of schemes to suck the people dry are not even touched on the surface by our million-dollar ministerial talents.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>The promise to invite non-conformist views from non-party people and openning up of intellectual space is also just for show as seen in my correspondences with youngpap.</p> Mon, 12 May 2008 18:05:32 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8081113 robertteh http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <p><span class="">PAP</span> has succeeded in remaking Sg as a ft paradise!</p> <p>Vivian has succeeded in making Sg into a callous society with his famous quote: “where do you want to eat? Hotel, restaurant or food court?</p> Mon, 12 May 2008 17:17:14 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8081029 pearlie27 http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <p>Do u know actually what is causing these problems.. The min wage that has not been implemented.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>This&nbsp;determines&nbsp;everything from population growth to goverment longevity</p> <p> A&nbsp;variable&nbsp;Min&nbsp;wage&nbsp;should&nbsp;be&nbsp;implemented&nbsp;periodically&nbsp;tagged&nbsp;with&nbsp;the&nbsp;cost&nbsp;of&nbsp;loving.</p> <p> In&nbsp;order&nbsp;to&nbsp;attract&nbsp;foreign&nbsp;MNCs&nbsp;in&nbsp;Singapore,&nbsp;the&nbsp;wages&nbsp;are&nbsp;kept&nbsp;low.&nbsp;This&nbsp;IMO&nbsp;is&nbsp;a&nbsp;flawed&nbsp;concept&nbsp;because&nbsp;most&nbsp;other&nbsp;developed countries&nbsp;have&nbsp;a&nbsp;min&nbsp;wage&nbsp;implemented&nbsp;but&nbsp;still&nbsp;have&nbsp;MNCs&nbsp;setting&nbsp;up&nbsp;there.</p> <p> Seriously&nbsp;they&nbsp;think&nbsp;they&nbsp;can&nbsp;attract&nbsp;MNCs&nbsp;to&nbsp;sg&nbsp;with&nbsp;lower&nbsp;wages?&nbsp;think&nbsp;again.&nbsp;low wage will only produce low quality work.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p> They&nbsp;do&nbsp;not&nbsp;understand&nbsp;how&nbsp;the&nbsp;labour market&nbsp;works.&nbsp;Low&nbsp;wages&nbsp;dont&nbsp;mean&nbsp;anything&nbsp;its&nbsp;because&nbsp;it&nbsp;the&nbsp;country's&nbsp;market&nbsp;potential&nbsp;that&nbsp;matters.&nbsp;The&nbsp;Consumers&nbsp;of&nbsp;a&nbsp;particular&nbsp;country.</p> Mon, 12 May 2008 16:17:13 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8080944 Melbournite http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by kivichio:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>d)affordable housing for all. By this I don't mean everyone can afford to buy a HDB flat. That's not a god given right, but the Singapore gvt has subsidized public housing so having a place to live in while difficult for poorer income groups, are still within their reach. But as always, gvts cannot and should not cater to the lowest common denominator otherwise you end up with a welfare state like the US with its attendant problems</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>the notion of affordable housing is fast becoming a myth here in singapore. the question of subsidized housing pegged to market rate is flawed. that variable is adjustable to suit the government's intent and purposes.</p> <p>the original&nbsp;intent is noble and started nobly. in the last 10 years or so, this has not been the case at all.</p> Mon, 12 May 2008 14:12:47 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8080677 redDUST http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <p>... I just feel that it isn't Singapore that needs remaking ..</p> <p>.... it should be the <strong>Remaking of the Singapore Government</strong>...</p> Mon, 12 May 2008 13:49:28 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8080624 HyperFocal http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <p>Understood Atobe, perhaps I was a little hasty in saying "bitching". No reason why we have to resort to personal attacks and that was admittedly hitting below the belt. But to respond to your queries:</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>a) Lowering the gas&nbsp;tax essentially means lowering the price of fuel at the pump. I understand the difference between subsidies and removal of taxes, but in both cases you are stimulating relative demand. I do not argue prices may not continue to increase if oil prices increase, but you're essentially rewarding those who use fuel and removing an impt revenue source. Do you not understand the same debate is flaring in the US, where every economist in the land has derided Hillary's campaign promise to revise fuel taxes. Same rules here.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>b) As to you thinking of a breakdown in public transport systems due to singaporeans not able to take buses/mrts... Well the substitution effect of those choosing to take public transport over their now much more expensive automobiles have actually helped increase ridership. As to R&amp;D for fuel alternatives to oil... are you serious? You want Singapore to fund research for this when supernations like the US as well as&nbsp;private investments&nbsp;are already&nbsp;channeling billions into alternative energy research?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>c)when talking about welfare services you use Sweden as a comparison, well&nbsp;you state that "they take a fixed sum up front." Feel free to move to a country which takes just a hair under 50% of GDP in taxation income. I'll be happy to take the 20-25% income tax and GST anytime over that... Hidden taxes? Ummm GST is as crystal clear as you can get... Also, please note that Sweden is much larger than Singapore, has a hinterland which is resource rich. Do we also have cheap hydropower to draw upon?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>d)affordable housing for all. By this I don't mean everyone can afford to buy a HDB flat. That's not a god given right, but the Singapore gvt has subsidized public housing so having a place to live in while difficult for poorer income groups, are still within their reach. But as always, gvts cannot and should not cater to the lowest common denominator otherwise you end up with a welfare state like the US with its attendant problems</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Anyway, let's agree to disagree. I personally feel Singapore has done a great job by all the relevant benchmarks. Everyone has their own opinions and all the data spouted here won't change most who are committed to their viewpoints, be it yours or mine.</p> Mon, 12 May 2008 12:05:25 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8080408 kivichio http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by kivichio:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>&nbsp;One need only look at the minimal traffic jams on our throughfares and compare them to other cosmopolitan cities to see the difference that well thought out city planning has achieved. And can you even give thanks to a government that has planned out one of the best internal public transport systems in the world. Most of our buses are clean and airconditioned, while the MRT runs efficiently and on time.</p> </div> </blockquote> <p><br /> Er one of the best in the world means ranked what? You mean one of the best in Asean where the standard of living is lower?...&nbsp; Which developed country does not use aircon buses? Taiwan and HongKong MRT do not run efficiently?</p> Mon, 12 May 2008 11:20:53 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8080312 kilua http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by kivichio:</div> <blockquote> <p>More gripes and gripes. You advocate removal of taxes on oil? The reason oil prices have spiraled up beyond the "tipping point" is that demand has been inelastic of prices. Oil prices were previously expected to level off at $100 because demand was supposed to have tapered off due to consumers switching to alternatives such as public transport and car pooling, or basically changing their behavior to minimize oil consumption. That has not been the case. Now we have Goldman Sach's analyst forecasting oil prices to reach US$150-200 per barrel as they don't expect consumer behavior to&nbsp;change until prices hit those new marks. So you want to continue to add more stress into the demand side of the equation by lowering taxes to make gasoline effectively cheaper? Remember, oil is a non-renewable resource. OPEC is already stretched with even the Saudis having difficulty increasing production while Russia which was supposed to be a bright light in the storm has been disappointing in terms of production growth.</p> </blockquote> <p><span style="color: #800000;">The objective of the high tax on fuel consumption in Singapore is to discourage the easy ownership of cars,&nbsp;which unfortunately&nbsp;do not address the fact that it will also increase the cost to the&nbsp;business community providing essential services to consumers.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Reducing or removal of the fuel tax is different from subsidising the cost of fuel, as it will still be pegged to the international oil price that dictates its final pump prices.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Everyone knows that oil is a&nbsp;non-renewable resource, but is there any known alternative available to Singapore, and is the Singapore&nbsp;Government actively encouraging the search or R&amp;D towards alternative to oil ?</span></p> <blockquote> <p>All that subsidies or price caps achieve, as seen in China and Indonesia, is eat into&nbsp;government revenues&nbsp;and cultivate a culture that ever more regards cheap oil as a birthright. I think Singapore has done a great job in balancing car affordability and gasoline prices to make car ownership a priviledge one has to work hard for. One need only look at the minimal traffic jams on our throughfares and compare them to other cosmopolitan cities to see the difference that well thought out city planning has achieved. And can you even give thanks to a government that has planned out one of the best internal public transport systems in the world. Most of our buses are clean and airconditioned, while the MRT runs efficiently and on time.</p> </blockquote> <p><span style="color: #800000;">&nbsp;Is anyone calling for price fixing by having the fuel tax reduced or removed ?</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">The tax approach is available to the Singapore&nbsp;Government in a direct way to help in lowering the cost of living for Singaporeans, as it will have a trickle down effect that reaches every Singaporean.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">What is the use of the best internal public transport system when the Citizens become broke ?</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Is the best internal public transport system of any use when the Citizens cannot afford to travel due to the high costs of living and have to cut down on all kinds of expenses that include unnecessary travel.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">This will eventually affect the bottom lines of the public transport services as they will surely see a drop in passenger numbers - leading to a call for fare increases to compensate for revenue losses but cleverly&nbsp;disguised as higher operating costs.</span></p> <blockquote> <p>You complain about GST. Well good luck finding another developed country in the world where the income tax rate is as low as in Singapore. Other than the oil rich countries of the world, or HK (where social services are non-existent and the rich-poor disparity is startling), very few countries that offer the ammenities that Singapore does (such as community centers every few km, public swimming pools, well developed public transport, advance and subsidized education systems, as well as significant spending in military and defense budgets) have such a low taxable base.</p> </blockquote> <p><span style="color: #800000;">&nbsp;You are only looking at one aspect of the tax system in Singapore - only from the income tax. Have you not considered that this Government has impoverished the AVERAGE&nbsp;Singaporeans - {the $1000 to $3000&nbsp;income&nbsp;group} -&nbsp;by taking a major part of their monthly income&nbsp;through a plethora of tax regimes&nbsp;which haunt every aspect of&nbsp;consumer life&nbsp;in Singapore ?</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Yes, the income tax in Singapore is seemingly low, have you&nbsp;tried adding all the taxes that this government imposed on all kinds of services and utilities consumed</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">At least the Swedish Government is more honest and by taxing a fixed sum upfront and provide all services to its Citizens from cradle to grave - which explains for Sweden's ability to renew its own population numbers&nbsp;compared to Singapore's failure in self-renewal despite the supposedly low tax environment, and have to rely on the import of foreign talent to sustain population renewal.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Surely the Swedish Government is more talented than those in the&nbsp;Singapore Government ?</span></p> <blockquote> <p>You talk about the local needy? You must be kidding. Yes, there are alot of the hard luck stories you occasionally come into contact with, but affordable housing, food, and education is within the means of most of the populace. More so I believe than in the US, Indonesia, Malaysia or any of our south east asian brethren. I don't presume to know too much about the needy, but I presume my taxes and contributions to charity do somehow go to alleviate some of their needs.</p> </blockquote> <p><span style="color: #800000;">&nbsp;Affordable housing by whose standards ?</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">What kind of housing does Singaporeans get for the money that is paid ?</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">The Singapore Dollar is supposedly&nbsp;managed by the Government&nbsp;to be stronger in exchange rate and&nbsp;so as&nbsp;to be able to purchase raw materials to help lower the cost of living - {in terms of housing, transport, utilities&nbsp;and food}; yet despite this fact, our cost of living is higher then that in Malaysia, Thailand and Hongkong.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Do not be too presumptious to believe that your small contributions in terms of taxes paid will help the needy, as this Singapore Government is less charitable than you.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">It&nbsp;does not take too much of your presumptious effort to know how much can you truly give to charity that will be of any effect to alleviate their needs, when the numbers are constantly manipulated in census, which do not capture the data concerning the&nbsp;homeless.</span></p> <blockquote> <p>Stop bitching and asking the government to take care of your every need. Make more so you don't have to ask for a handout everytime you face headwinds. Singaporeans already have a stereotype of loving to complain yet being unable to think for themselves. Don't make the stereotype into a reality.</p> </blockquote> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Unfortunately, you poor sighting of my text resulted in you seeing bitching and not understanding the essence of my post.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Try to be less condescending and presumptious and you will at least get some grip on reality.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Is anyone asking for a handout, or are you simply fixxated by a single point of view driven home by repeated propaganda ?</span></p> <p><span style="color: #800000;">Look, Understand, Think. - it does not burn too much of your energy, which surely you can afford to renew, or do you need to cut down on your charity ?</span></p> Mon, 12 May 2008 10:04:24 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8080207 Atobe http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <p>That old tired argument about fat salaries.</p> <p>Do you know that an associate or junior level vp at an investment bank earns about as much or&nbsp;more than most of our ministers, bar the most senior. And Lee Hsien Long and top ministers rarely make more than managing directors. Yet they manage and handle much more money and people than these people do. Sure others in Indonesia and China are paid a lot less, but I think their track records basically argue my case? No?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Just because you don't earn as much doesn't mean these gents who boast top class education and working backgrounds should make the same as you.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>I think despite the worsening situation globally, Singapore has done a great job treading the thin line between maintaining a good quality of life while remaining competitive in the global marketplace. Remember, the only asset that Singapore as a nation has is a good port and efficient government. Otherwise, we'd be just a poor cousin of Malaysia...</p> Mon, 12 May 2008 09:18:56 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8080096 kivichio http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <blockquote> <div class="">105 posts since Apr '05</div> <ul class=""> <li class=""><a name="post_8079973" rel="nofollow" id= "post_8079973"></a> <div class=""><a href= "http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/#post_8079973" rel= "nofollow"><abbr class="" title= "2008-05-12T05:41:44+08:00"><span style= "font-size: x-small; color: #666666;">12 May `08, 5:41AM</span></abbr></a></div> <div class=""></div> <div class=""> <p>Come on. Cost of commodities are going through the roof. Oil hit 125/barrel, Grain/Wheat/Soybean food prices have roughly doubled/tripled and in some cases quadrupled. At the same time, US is facing a possible multi-year wind-down from the credit and mortgage crisis, and the Singaporean economy has always been strongly export driven with the US being one of our major export destinations.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>In such an environment, if the minister is able to enhance standard of living despite these underlying fundamentals, he would be a miracle worker.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> </div> </li> </ul> <p>Stop complaining and try to hit the top 5-10% of the population that profits despite a bull or bear market situation.</p> </blockquote> <p>if&nbsp; they cant do a miracle job, why are we paying them a heaven salary?do your boss employ you , pay you fat salary and hear your excuses about how competitive the market if you dont hit your target ?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> Mon, 12 May 2008 09:03:19 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8080069 reyes http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <p>In such an environment, if the minister is able to enhance standard of living despite these underlying fundamentals, he would be a miracle worker.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>it would be a miracle if our govt works at all.</p> Mon, 12 May 2008 08:55:03 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8080060 domonkassyu http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <p>More gripes and gripes. You advocate removal of taxes on oil? The reason oil prices have spiraled up beyond the "tipping point" is that demand has been inelastic of prices. Oil prices were previously expected to level off at $100 because demand was supposed to have tapered off due to consumers switching to alternatives such as public transport and car pooling, or basically changing their behavior to minimize oil consumption. That has not been the case. Now we have Goldman Sach's analyst forecasting oil prices to reach US$150-200 per barrel as they don't expect consumer behavior to&nbsp;change until prices hit those new marks. So you want to continue to add more stress into the demand side of the equation by lowering taxes to make gasoline effectively cheaper? Remember, oil is a non-renewable resource. OPEC is already stretched with even the Saudis having difficulty increasing production while Russia which was supposed to be a bright light in the storm has been disappointing in terms of production growth.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>All that subsidies or price caps achieve, as seen in China and Indonesia, is eat into&nbsp;government revenues&nbsp;and cultivate a culture that ever more regards cheap oil as a birthright. I think Singapore has done a great job in balancing car affordability and gasoline prices to make car ownership a priviledge one has to work hard for. One need only look at the minimal traffic jams on our throughfares and compare them to other cosmopolitan cities to see the difference that well thought out city planning has achieved. And can you even give thanks to a government that has planned out one of the best internal public transport systems in the world. Most of our buses are clean and airconditioned, while the MRT runs efficiently and on time.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>You complain about GST. Well good luck finding another developed country in the world where the income tax rate is as low as in Singapore. Other than the oil rich countries of the world, or HK (where social services are non-existent and the rich-poor disparity is startling), very few countries that offer the ammenities that Singapore does (such as community centers every few km, public swimming pools, well developed public transport, advance and subsidized education systems, as well as significant spending in military and defense budgets) have such a low taxable base.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>You talk about the local needy? You must be kidding. Yes, there are alot of the hard luck stories you occasionally come into contact with, but affordable housing, food, and education is within the means of most of the populace. More so I believe than in the US, Indonesia, Malaysia or any of our south east asian brethren. I don't presume to know too much about the needy, but I presume my taxes and contributions to charity do somehow go to alleviate some of their needs.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Stop bitching and asking the government to take care of your every need. Make more so you don't have to ask for a handout everytime you face headwinds. Singaporeans already have a stereotype of loving to complain yet being unable to think for themselves. Don't make the stereotype into a reality.</p> Mon, 12 May 2008 08:54:43 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8080059 kivichio http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <p>many countries are taking direct measures to control these commodity prices increase. singapore is still talking and taking indirect means to control spiralling costs. all these one-time $ give-backs and coupons are very short term and serve their political agenda more than helping the most needy.</p> <p>in the end, it is the&nbsp;average joe that needs most protection of and help with. the singapore government, unfortunately, continues to be blindsided by their so-called `bigger picture' view&nbsp;and singaporeans are still doing well.</p> <p>the local needy here are fast becoming invisible.&nbsp;</p> Mon, 12 May 2008 08:03:46 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8080033 redDUST http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <p>Cost of commodities may have gone through the roof and reaching for the sky - unfortunately the Government has made it worst by levying a 50 percent {??} tax on fuel, and increase of GST by 2 percent&nbsp; at the worst possible time in 2005-2006.</p> <p>It is within the control of the Government to reduce or remove the fuel tax that will have a ''global effect'' on all other commercial operating&nbsp;costs in Singapore.</p> <p>The controversial increase of the GST - from 5% to 7% - could be reverted, as the Singapore treasury is not hard-up for money.</p> <p>If Hong Kong can grow their reserves without these controversial taxes that increase the social burden onto Singaporeans, why should this Government not respond to ease the present situation for Singapore ?</p> <p>Should we then see these stubborn position as the continued accumulation of funds that will become annual budget surplus to be transferred to GIC and Temasek - so as to plug the gapping holes from their poor investment decision that has drained away billions from the Singapore Reserve ?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> Mon, 12 May 2008 07:38:27 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8080020 Atobe http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <p>Come on. Cost of commodities are going through the roof. Oil hit 125/barrel, Grain/Wheat/Soybean food prices have roughly doubled/tripled and in some cases quadrupled. At the same time, US is facing a possible multi-year wind-down from the credit and mortgage crisis, and the Singaporean economy has always been strongly export driven with the US being one of our major export destinations.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>In such an environment, if the minister is able to enhance standard of living despite these underlying fundamentals, he would be a miracle worker.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Stop complaining and try to hit the top 5-10% of the population that profits despite a bull or bear market situation.</p> Mon, 12 May 2008 05:41:44 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8079973 kivichio http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <p>we haf successfully remade into china liao wat.</p> <p><img src="/images/emoticons/kde-3.5.8/KMess-Cartoon/teeth.png" alt="teeth.png" /></p> Mon, 12 May 2008 00:03:13 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8079575 FireIce http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <p>Excuse me I tot government is government, private sector is private sector</p> Mon, 12 May 2008 00:02:19 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8079570 Uncle Ver SG http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Remake Singapore into what?</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>His report is so long consisting of look-good mission statements.</p> <p>Eye surgeon is a totally different profession from action-oriented empire builder of the like of Li Ka Shing or Warren Buffet who will not stand rhetorics or statements.</p> Sun, 11 May 2008 23:28:45 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8079467 robertteh http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <p>one probably know the success of it so far since PAP is known to trumpet anything that has got a positive vibes to it.</p> Sun, 11 May 2008 23:25:06 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8079457 redDUST http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235 <p>I am sure that good leaders do not offer many excuses like you mentioned and will confront problems positively head-on without so many ifs and buts to justify failures.</p> <p>Sim Wong Hoo once advised government not to have too many "U" turns to ensure success.</p> Sun, 11 May 2008 23:24:46 +0800 www.sgforums.com:10:317235:8079456 robertteh http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/317235