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CFC rank

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  • sgf's Avatar
    368 posts since Feb '06
    • In this month's magazine I saw what appears to be the Corporal First Class rank on 2 NSmen from an air defence unit in no 4 uniform.

      Looked damn ugly. Basically a CPL rank with two arches on top instead of one. Strangely, it doesn't appear on MINDEF website.

      I'm guessing its one of those "unofficial" ranks just like PFC. You wouldn't find PFC on MINDEF website but there are many of them around in the army. Don't know about other formations but I'm from Engineers & there are many PFCs around & I don't just mean super old NSmen. And no, its not that they forgot to replace their old LCP rank. Have seen the name list & PFC does keep appearing.

  • ^tamago^'s Avatar
    55,128 posts since Sep '03
  • venny's Avatar
    1,443 posts since Aug '07
    • its not an unofficial rank. CFC is an official rank.
      image
      deserving cpls can get promoted to it. if i got a silver for my ippt my oc wld hav promoted me, pity i didnt, though my unit got quite a few lucky ones already.

      this is a gd site that will teach u alot about the ranks of the saf.
      http://www.geocities.com/inescutcheon/RanksMilitary.htm

      and PFC is also an official rank. image, jus that pfc and cfc are not as common as lcp and cpl thats all.[/img]

      Edited by venny 23 Aug `07, 6:09PM
  • Moderator
    Shotgun's Avatar
    7,238 posts since Jul '00
  • venny's Avatar
    1,443 posts since Aug '07
    • got discuss here be4 i believe.
      example some units like techies, they go through special course, they can do the job of a sergeant but its service work, so last time they get promoted frm cpl to 3sg to reflect such a job. but they dont go through sispec de. so they prolly come up with such a rank so that 3sg is strictly for those sispec trained and for those cpl who got go for extra course and get extra duties can get cfc to reflect their new job

  • sir sickolot II's Avatar
    939 posts since Nov '06
    • another reason why CFC was introduced ( btw i don’t really like the acronym) was to promote deserving corporals who have done well, or to acknowledge the CPLs who may from time to time take on specialist roles.

  • LazerLordz's Avatar
    35,170 posts since Apr '03
    • Keep the CFC for deserving CPLs.

      But revert the tech specs to 3SG. The rank is given to them for their estab and for them to be able to enforce certain maintenance regulations and programs throughout their units.

  • sgf's Avatar
    368 posts since Feb '06
    • When I was a NSF 10 years ago, it was quite ridiculous. Dunno about other units but in my unit, anyone who had A-levels or diploma automatically got sent for upgrading course. So regardless of whether they were clerk, storeman or mechanic, all ended up ORDing as 3SG.

      As a result there were TONS of 3SG. In fact when I go back for ICT now, that problem becomes even more evident. Just throw a stone & chances are the head it hits will be that of a 3SG. Basically every tom, dick or harry is a 3SG. My entire tech squad is made up of 3SG save for 2 men which is hilarious in a way.

      I'm supposing this same problem occurred SAF wide which is why now they decide to cap the rank at CPL, save for those outstanding ones who get CFC.

  • venny's Avatar
    1,443 posts since Aug '07
    • if u go back ict next yr, u will see alot more cfc le. they nw giving out alot of cfc. i bet next yr will have more cfc than pfc in saf.

  • sgf's Avatar
    368 posts since Feb '06
    • Originally posted by venny:
      if u go back ict next yr, u will see alot more cfc le. they nw giving out alot of cfc. i bet next yr will have more cfc than pfc in saf.

      That's dumb. It cheapens the rank. I always felt that ranks should be given out based on who deserves it & not whether he has A-levels or not.

      A scholar does not necessarily make a good soldier. There were many ppl in my unit when I was a NSFs who were chao keng kings. Some even got charged for malingering. But all still got their 3SG rank 'cos in those days, anyone with As or dip confirm will get the rank.

      Those clowns should've gotten a LCP max. And back in those days, if you have Os & below you are stuck at LCP. What gives? If the fella is good enough what's wrong with promoting him beyond them? Just 'cos he only has O level means he's a lousy solider?

      Dumb!! Rolling Eyes

      Edited by sgf 25 Aug `07, 10:02AM
  • ^Delta^'s Avatar
    335 posts since Mar '06
    • Originally posted by sgf:
      That's dumb. It cheapens the rank. I always felt that ranks should be given out based on who deserves it & not whether he has A-levels or not.

      A scholar does not necessarily make a good soldier. There were many ppl in my unit when I was a NSFs who were chao keng kings. Some even got charged for malingering. But all still got their 3SG rank 'cos in those days, anyone with As or dip confirm will get the rank.

      Those clowns should've gotten a LCP max. And back in those days, if you have Os & below you are stuck at LCP. What gives? If the fella is good enough what's wrong with promoting him beyond them? Just 'cos he only has O level means he's a lousy solider?

      Dumb!! Rolling Eyes

      My sentiments exactly. I personally felt that many of the ppl in my unit deserved to be promoted beyond the rank of LCP rather than those so called better brains who throughly screwed up many a time.

      In fact, there used to be 2 LCPs in my side who were assigned to S3 branch. Even though one of the LCPs was newly posted in he was slated for upgrade to 3SG (double jump in rank simply cos he was an A lvl student) but his attitude left much to be deserved. I think he was probably gloating over the fact that he can arrow ppl to do chores and sai kang for him in a month's time. I went to my unit S1 directly along with my DY S3 and managed to "persuade" him to promote the other deserving LCP instead. Imagine the look on the both their faces when we announced the promotion. One of disappointment (heh heh) and the other of surprise.

      Edited by ^Delta^ 25 Aug `07, 3:33PM
  • LazerLordz's Avatar
    35,170 posts since Apr '03
    • Like I've said many times.

      Tech Specs need the rank. They do not want the rank for cosmetic purposes.

      Right now, the limiting of tech specs to CFCs for the majority, is and has already caused a lot of unhappiness.

      Believe me, we 3SGs were nothing but men rank wise in the context of our units, but with the crap that we have to do, it would surprise you that many Tech Specs who perform both maint. and admin duties are carrying out roles that were supposed to be performed by 2WOs and 1WOs, and having to interact and liaise professionally with people in ST Logisitcs, STK, ODE, Thales at the managerial level.

      Edited by LazerLordz 25 Aug `07, 8:18PM
  • Moderator
    Shotgun's Avatar
    7,238 posts since Jul '00
    • Originally posted by LazerLordz:
      Like I've said many times.

      Tech Specs need the rank. They do not want the rank for cosmetic purposes.

      Right now, the limiting of tech specs to CFCs for the majority, is and has already caused a lot of unhappiness.

      Believe me, we 3SGs were nothing but men rank wise in the context of our units, but with the crap that we have to do, it would surprise you that many Tech Specs who perform both maint. and admin duties are carrying out roles that were supposed to be performed by 2WOs and 1WOs, and having to interact and liaise professionally with people in ST Logisitcs, STK, ODE, Thales at the managerial level.

      True enough. So promote those technical specialists who handle such managerial duties to 3SG. Its not necessary to give every tech spec a 3SG rank. I know not every technical spec is that hardworking, and not all of them deserve the rank.

      A couple of my buddies were shocked when one of their colleagues, another technical spec was promoted form CPL to 3SG. That guy was one kinda of a blur king, and his behavior was not even close to the discipline level required of a soldier, dun even say a 3SG. My friends who were technical specialists themselves, holding the rank of 3SG genuinely felt that their rank had no meaning once they saw that guy's promotion.

      Edited by Shotgun 25 Aug `07, 11:13PM
  • LazerLordz's Avatar
    35,170 posts since Apr '03
    • Originally posted by Shotgun:
      True enough. So promote those technical specialists who handle such managerial duties to 3SG. Its not necessary to give every tech spec a 3SG rank. I know not every technical spec is that hardworking, and not all of them deserve the rank.

      A couple of my buddies were shocked when one of their colleagues, another technical spec was promoted form CPL to 3SG. That guy was one kinda of a blur king, and his behavior was not even close to the discipline level required of a soldier, dun even say a 3SG. My friends who were technical specialists themselves, holding the rank of 3SG genuinely felt that their rank had no meaning once they saw that guy's promotion.

      The problem being that most tech specs understand that their duties do switch all the time. So it is not realistic to segregate and adopt a system of selective promotion based on duties that are not fixed per se.

      We don't operate in rigid structures, and very often, people are expected to cover for a few roles at a time. This is more evident at depot level and above.

      As for blur kings and sotongs, perhaps the SAF should increase the difficulty level at the vocational coursework level, to weed out those that will not make the grade to even be a competent technical specialist, nevermind the probable "blurness".

      If I had guys under me who are blur kings in appearance, but who can give me great assistance in doing paperwork, contracts and all that, I'd still take the chap.

      Like I said, different orbits, different atmosphere.

  • sgf's Avatar
    368 posts since Feb '06
    • Originally posted by Shotgun:
      True enough. So promote those technical specialists who handle such managerial duties to 3SG. Its not necessary to give every tech spec a 3SG rank. I know not every technical spec is that hardworking, and not all of them deserve the rank.

      A couple of my buddies were shocked when one of their colleagues, another technical spec was promoted form CPL to 3SG. That guy was one kinda of a blur king, and his behavior was not even close to the discipline level required of a soldier, dun even say a 3SG. My friends who were technical specialists themselves, holding the rank of 3SG genuinely felt that their rank had no meaning once they saw that guy's promotion.

      Exactly, many tech specs in my unit basically did men's work. They repaired rovers, they repaired tonners. That's it. They didn't have to do any admin work or managerial duties. Those were done by the regulars. But they still got the 3SG rank 'cos they had As or diploma. Which is retarded to me!

      So what do you have in the end? A coy of NSFs 99% of which are 3SG but all doing enlistee's job. Brilliant! Rolling Eyes

  • LazerLordz's Avatar
    35,170 posts since Apr '03
    • Originally posted by sgf:
      Exactly, many tech specs in my unit basically did men's work. They repaired rovers, they repaired tonners. That's it. They didn't have to do any admin work or managerial duties. Those were done by the regulars. But they still got the 3SG rank 'cos they had As or diploma. Which is retarded to me!

      So what do you have in the end? A coy of NSFs 99% of which are 3SG but all doing enlistee's job. Brilliant! Rolling Eyes

      Sounds like auto tech specs' job scope is more assured than the others. Neutral

  • venny's Avatar
    1,443 posts since Aug '07
  • LazerLordz's Avatar
    35,170 posts since Apr '03
    • Originally posted by venny:
      well, if they gave 3sg pay... i dun mind actually.... Cool

      3SG non-combat pay was $560 in 2005 when I ORD.

  • venny's Avatar
    1,443 posts since Aug '07
  • beavan's Avatar
    3,923 posts since May '04
  • venny's Avatar
    1,443 posts since Aug '07
    • if its local promotion, no pay increase. jus rank only. eg: ammo specs are sometimes local promotion to 2sg so they can allowed to draw ammo for their unit.

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