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our neighbours up north are countering all our steps!!!!

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  • foxtrout8's Avatar
    1,169 posts since May '02
    • First a fiecesome SAM purchase to counter our Air-Strike Capacity, then Purchase of Tanks, armed wif advance armour and Self defend technology to counter our superb anti-tank capacity. MLRS to warn us how small is our land , latest Submarines to tell us our version of blue water navy , will be much greener, NS policy to tell us that their youth are not muggers, NGPV to counter our Frigate then F-18 to Counter our falcons, R-77 for our Sparrow…wa lau..like everything we do they counter like shit leh…..10 yrs later down the road ,Singapore cannot be strongest liao. HOW>>>>>?

  • Doenitz's Avatar
    1,375 posts since Jun '00
    • those lazy ah mats cannot make it lah...They are just buying for the sake of buying and showing off...It is not about having nice looking equipment alone? Obviously they don't know that.Can you imagine the logistics nightmare they will face with Russian,British and American military hardware? I rest my case...

      "From 1985 to 1993, Malaysia and Singapore spent roughly the same amount of money on their respective militaries (Singapore spent $12 billion; and Malaysia, $12.5 billion).Yet in all respects, Singapore's military is far more capable than Malaysia's armed forces. Singapore's equipment, personnel, training, and overall readiness are considered the best in Southeast Asia. The MAF, on the other hand, still has shortfalls in operational efficiency, readiness, and sustainability. Furthermore, the educational standards of Malaysia's military personnel are inadequate to operate and maintain modern, high-tech equipment.

      Malaysia and Indonesia instituted force modernization plans in 1979 that were subsumed by politics; the military's desires were overridden by political decisions for many major purchases.According to a former Defense and Army Attache at the American Embassy in Malaysia, these problems can be traced to two sources.

      The first is a manpower problem, related directly to Malaysia's consistent and adamant policy that Malays form the bulk of their armed forces. The MAF remains an all-volunteer military, despite the fact that even among Malays, military service is no longer as attractive as employment in the civilian sector. The MAF has taken some measures to make a military career more attractive, but the obvious solution of increasing the recruit pool by accessing more non-Malays is ignored. The only disqualification of these non-Malay recruits is their race and consequent perceived political unreliability.

      The second problem is the process of weapon acquisition. In most competent military organizations, weapon purchases are made based on the recommendations of the military services, predicated on an evaluation of the national defense mission and available resources. In Malaysia, however, weapon purchases are made after consultations between the finance minister and the prime minister. Although the opinions of the military are voiced through the minister of defense, they are frequently overridden by the political players. Consequently, expensive high-tech weapons are purchased according to political criteria instead of the needs of soldiers, sailors, and airmen expected to operate and maintain them.

      Consider, for example, Malaysia's aircraft purchases. To replace one aircraft, the A-4, Kuala Lumpur has purchased three: the MiG-29, the F/A-18, and the Hawk-200. As variety is added to any fleet of equipment, training and logistical problems expand. This situation is aggravated in Malaysia's case because these aircraft come from three different countries, with different standards of logistics, training, and language. Further exacerbating the problem is the low number of each aircraft purchased, which makes buying spare parts and services relatively more expensive and retention of an adequate number of qualified crews considerably more difficult. The consequence of these problems will be low availability of combat aircraft well into the future

      Edited by Doenitz 23 Nov `02, 10:33PM
  • tripwire's Avatar
    2,470 posts since Feb '01
    • Originally posted by foxtrout8:
      First a fiecesome SAM purchase to counter our Air-Strike Capacity, then Purchase of Tanks, armed wif advance armour and Self defend technology to counter our superb anti-tank capacity. MLRS to warn us how small is our land , latest Submarines to tell us our version of blue water navy , will be much greener, NS policy to tell us that their youth are not muggers, NGPV to counter our Frigate then F-18 to Counter our falcons, R-77 for our Sparrow...wa lau..like everything we do they counter like shit leh.....10 yrs later down the road ,Singapore cannot be strongest liao. HOW>>>>>?

      dont believe their bullshit....

      malaysia..............................................................singapore

      8 hornets ................................vs .......................80 falcons
      dummy R77.............................vs........................LIVE sparrows
      a few hundred MRLS rocket... vs...............10s of 1000s of ICM
      4 submarine.............................vs.............................6 lafayette
      .................................................................................6 MCV
      .................................................................................4 MPA
      .................................................................................6 PVs
      a few dozen PT91....................vs.........................350 AMX31
      ..............................................................................22 AMX-10P
      ..............................................................................50 tempest
      .............................................................................SPIKE
      ..............................................................................MILAN
      ..............................................................................TOW2
      NS???......................................eat FAE lah...... Mr. Green Mr. Green

  • Moderator
    Orcishwarrior's Avatar
    443 posts since Jul '02
    • Originally posted by foxtrout8:
      First a fiecesome SAM purchase to counter our Air-Strike Capacity, then Purchase of Tanks, armed wif advance armour and Self defend technology to counter our superb anti-tank capacity. MLRS to warn us how small is our land , latest Submarines to tell us our version of blue water navy , will be much greener, NS policy to tell us that their youth are not muggers, NGPV to counter our Frigate then F-18 to Counter our falcons, R-77 for our Sparrow...wa lau..like everything we do they counter like shit leh.....10 yrs later down the road ,Singapore cannot be strongest liao. HOW>>>>>?

      Since singapore acquired 12 additional apache there hasnt been much defence news about any mindef procurements.I m actually suspecting our latest defence budgets to be a fake one considering our present economic situation.
      Another possiblility currently Dsta and the MoD are watching closely on the malaysia procurement.This will allow Dsta to prescribe the right medicine.

      Edited by Orcishwarrior 23 Nov `02, 10:45PM
  • foxtrout8's Avatar
    1,169 posts since May '02
    • ha …. however i still believe it is the begining of a arm race liao…...but thx for the info….i can slp tonight liao

  • Moderator
    Orcishwarrior's Avatar
    443 posts since Jul '02
    • Originally posted by tripwire:
      dont believe their bullshit....

      malaysia..............................................................singapore

      8 hornets ................................vs .......................80 falcons
      dummy R77.............................vs........................LIVE sparrows
      a few hundred MRLS rocket... vs...............10s of 1000s of ICM
      4 submarine.............................vs.............................6 lafayette
      .................................................................................6 MCV
      .................................................................................4 MPA
      .................................................................................6 PVs
      a few dozen PT91....................vs.........................350 AMX31
      ..............................................................................22 AMX-10P
      ..............................................................................50 tempest
      .............................................................................SPIKE
      ..............................................................................MILAN
      ..............................................................................TOW2
      NS???......................................eat FAE lah...... Mr. Green Mr. Green

      U forgotten to Add
      [color=darkblue]Apache Longbow[/color]
      image

  • foxtrout8's Avatar
    1,169 posts since May '02
  • SonOfGod's Avatar
    22 posts since Oct '02
    • Originally posted by foxtrout8:
      hey are u sure Falcon is 80...i hope it's true?

      Yes, reliable sources indicate in the region of 70++.

  • Viper52's Avatar
    1,801 posts since Oct '01
    • Official purchases

      1987 - 4A 4B
      1994 - 8C/10D
      1996 - 4C/8D
      1997 - 10C/2D
      2000 - 20 (breakdown unknown)

      Sub-Total 4A, 4B, 22C, 20D, 20 unknown.

      2 Lost: 1A 1990, 1C 2002.

      Total: 68. 3A, 4B, 21C, 20D, 20 unknown

      Full serial numbers are recorded in plane spotters websites.

  • CX's Avatar
    1,926 posts since Apr '02
    • Originally posted by Orcishwarrior:
      Since singapore acquired 12 additional apache there hasnt been much defence news about any mindef procurements.I m actually suspecting our latest defence budgets to be a fake one considering our present economic situation.
      Another possiblility currently Dsta and the MoD are watching closely on the malaysia procurement.This will allow Dsta to prescribe the right medicine.

      a fake defence budget??? no way... considering that lots of planned acquisitions are expected. the frigates for instance. that is going to eat up a big chunk of the budget for the next few years.

      DSTA and Mindef are always listening... and the most important thing is that we do not get led by the nose by reckless, pig-ignorant fools.

      our current force capability is fully cabable of kicking their arse.

      its not just buying hardware. their problem lies at the more fundamental level.

      it'll take at least 10 years to build up the numbers and the operational expertise to try anything funny.

      this isn't starcraft or red alert Mr. Green real people are behind the controls and their competence matters as much as the quality of their hardware Twisted Evil

  • cavsg's Avatar
    779 posts since Oct '02
    • from what i heard from a source in mindef. the govt is short of cash next year. maybe thats why everything gone up this year. gst, transport fares, hopital charges and next will be taxi fares. remember, they raise fees to provide better ‘service.

  • CenturionMBT's Avatar
    3,001 posts since May '01
    • Originally posted by Viper52:
      Official purchases

      1987 - 4A 4B
      1994 - 8C/10D
      1996 - 4C/8D
      1997 - 10C/2D
      2000 - 20 (breakdown unknown)

      Sub-Total 4A, 4B, 22C, 20D, 20 unknown.

      2 Lost: 1A 1990, 1C 2002.

      Total: 68. 3A, 4B, 21C, 20D, 20 unknown

      Full serial numbers are recorded in plane spotters websites.

      I thought those are leased?So it can't really be part of our inventory rite?

  • Viper52's Avatar
    1,801 posts since Oct '01
    • The aircraft from the 96 batch were on a lease-to-buy basis direct from Lockheed Martin, not part of the Peace Carvin FMS program. One of the aircraft sporting a LM serial number from this 1996 batch was spotted by an Aussie contact during Pitch Black 2002, which means that it has been brought back to Singapore. And it would mean that the aircraft has been bought.

  • Moderator
    Orcishwarrior's Avatar
    443 posts since Jul '02
    • Originally posted by CenturionMBT:
      I thought those are leased?So it can't really be part of our inventory rite?

      Singapore bought 20 F-16 block 52 in Year 2000 and its due to be delivered mid of 2003

  • Viper52's Avatar
    1,801 posts since Oct '01
    • I don’t know where Tripwire got his number of 80 from, but last time I checked the serial numbers corresponded to 68 Vipers in the RSAF.

  • tripwire's Avatar
    2,470 posts since Feb '01
    • Originally posted by Viper52:
      I don't know where Tripwire got his number of 80 from, but last time I checked the serial numbers corresponded to 68 Vipers in the RSAF.

      simple.. i average out the highest number of around 97 from some sources togeher with the lowest number of around 60 from other sources and derived the approximate number..... Mr. Green Mr. Green

      afteall.... who can really be sure how many vipers the RSAF really have.... Mr. Green Mr. Green

      but either case... we outnumber their hornet.. which i believe still stands at 8... Mr. Green Mr. Green

      or was it less then 8?? Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Mr. Green Mr. Green Rolling Eyes

      Edited by tripwire 24 Nov `02, 8:46AM
  • foxtrout8's Avatar
    1,169 posts since May '02
    • our govt have been damm smart, not to buy every together, plus openly lease the aircraft to confuse the public.... Laughing

      however i have a feeling our neighbour up north will be prepared to deal with us. It is jus the beginning...once their NS scouts are available and their economy will to Boost , they will try all means by the name of they national survival to match us.

      Attack Heli have been bought to deal with our Anti-tank element. Medium range SAMS, manpad system have been upgrade or bought to, which make our apache or aircraft strike onto their MLRS or Tanks a difficult one. Scorpene is one hell of a submarine, one of the best in its class, specialise in attacking modern ships ,eg Delta. Btw , the malaysian govt had planned and have been ongoing obtaining several NGPV, i believe is the MEKO A class armed with exocet. Awac system have been examined into their inventory, soon a 4th generation fighter will be indroduce, problely the SU-30 or F-18F which are desigh to gain air superiorty agianst high advance threat.....( Rafale, typhoon, SU-30 and F-18F..are build to counter one another)....many more....wat we have they try to counter. Last time is...wat we have they drool saliva....but now...NO.

      Yes the singapore Armed Forces, in numeral or in any technological form have a lead over them, however wat will happen when their economy flourish, their NS boys are ripe....they can buy anything they one, man anything they one ,an attack into malaysian will be much more difficult and deadly , in times of war. As someone said, if theres a possiblity....anything could happen.

      Eh ...im not saying who is lousy who is not....however...i jus trying to bring out that...someone is trying to climb over our head.They will not stop, they will not give up.

      Thx...my ten cent opinion.!

  • Viper52's Avatar
    1,801 posts since Oct '01
    • Don't agree with Tripwires analysis there, I've seen the source claiming 97 or 91 Vipers in RSAF, and they're the same source that said we've 5A and 2Bs(actual number 4/4), claim the '96 batch of C/Ds were Block 42(actually 52s all RSAF-customised), claim 6 F-5Fs (actual number 9) and generally full of shite throughout.

      I won't believe them one iota.

      Although I do agree that the technological, numerical and training gap is still there. Although they're making a real serious effort to catch up.

      Edited by Viper52 24 Nov `02, 2:39PM
  • Mech^O^GATor's Avatar
    116 posts since Oct '02
    • Originally posted by Viper52:
      Don't agree with Tripwires analysis there, I've seen the source claiming 97 or 91 Vipers in RSAF, and they're the same source that said we've 5A and 2Bs(actual number 4/4), claim the '96 batch of C/Ds were Block 42(actually 52s all RSAF-customised), claim 6 F-5Fs (actual number 9) and generally full of shite throughout.

      I won't believe them one iota.

      Although I do agree that the technological, numerical and training gap is still there. Although they're making a real serious effort to catch up.

      Question is are they actually doing enough?The Malaysia side seems convinced that acquiring sophisticated armnaments and equipment is key element to overcome singapore's military superiority in the region.From my view i see that regular exercises/training with foreign forces are neglected
      .they are much restricted in asia region rather then Nato nations, exchanges with Nato force will assist them in combat strategies and tactics.
      I guess too much anti-western sentiment over there Very Happy

      Edited by Mech^O^GATor 24 Nov `02, 4:45PM
  • tripwire's Avatar
    2,470 posts since Feb '01
    • Originally posted by foxtrout8:
      our govt have been damm smart, not to buy every together, plus openly lease the aircraft to confuse the public.... Laughing

      however i have a feeling our neighbour up north will be prepared to deal with us. It is jus the beginning...once their NS scouts are available and their economy will to Boost , they will try all means by the name of they national survival to match us.

      Attack Heli have been bought to deal with our Anti-tank element. Medium range SAMS, manpad system have been upgrade or bought to, which make our apache or aircraft strike onto their MLRS or Tanks a difficult one. Scorpene is one hell of a submarine, one of the best in its class, specialise in attacking modern ships ,eg Delta. Btw , the malaysian govt had planned and have been ongoing obtaining several NGPV, i believe is the MEKO A class armed with exocet. Awac system have been examined into their inventory, soon a 4th generation fighter will be indroduce, problely the SU-30 or F-18F which are desigh to gain air superiorty agianst high advance threat.....( Rafale, typhoon, SU-30 and F-18F..are build to counter one another)....many more....wat we have they try to counter. Last time is...wat we have they drool saliva....but now...NO.

      Yes the singapore Armed Forces, in numeral or in any technological form have a lead over them, however wat will happen when their economy flourish, their NS boys are ripe....they can buy anything they one, man anything they one ,an attack into malaysian will be much more difficult and deadly , in times of war. As someone said, if theres a possiblity....anything could happen.

      Eh ...im not saying who is lousy who is not....however...i jus trying to bring out that...someone is trying to climb over our head.They will not stop, they will not give up.

      Thx...my ten cent opinion.!

      my opinion is that they are doing it the wrong way up.....

      and i am not gonna point out their errors for them...

      hopefully... they continue on their stupidity.....

  • Doenitz's Avatar
    1,375 posts since Jun '00
  • kY|e-_-o's Avatar
    137 posts since Aug '02
  • Moderator
    Orcishwarrior's Avatar
    443 posts since Jul '02
  • Doenitz's Avatar
    1,375 posts since Jun '00
    • Originally posted by Doenitz:
      Would you guys believe it if someone tells you Singapore has M1 Abrams MBTs?

      You may never know... Wink
      Remember our strategy of a preemptive strike on Johore is an open secret.Johore's terrain is relatively open-pure tank country... Wink

  • foxtrout8's Avatar
    1,169 posts since May '02
    • Abrams for wat..........?

      Got $ to buy Abram......y dun go and buy other advance light tank...most of the terrain and public roads are not suitable for its weight.......dun tell be for point defence.....

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