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Harpoon Block 2

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  • Matlaysia's Avatar
    115 posts since Aug '02
    • Hi any idea what model of the harpoon missile is used by the singapore navy. If singapore actually has the block 2 we don’t even need to worry the astros 2 because the harpoons 100+km will outrange even the longest range rocket the astros 2 can carry

  • Joe Black's Avatar
    863 posts since Oct '01
    • Originally posted by Matlaysia:
      Hi any idea what model of the harpoon missile is used by the singapore navy. If singapore actually has the block 2 we don't even need to worry the astros 2 because the harpoons 100+km will outrange even the longest range rocket the astros 2 can carry

      I think its Block 1B or Block 1C.

  • foxtrout8's Avatar
    1,169 posts since May '02
  • YI's Avatar
    1,355 posts since Feb '00
    • Originally posted by foxtrout8:
      trust mi , we may not need a harpoon block 2..... Wink

      aiya.. airstrike lah.

  • SingaporeTyrannosaur's Avatar
    6,889 posts since Jan '03
  • duotiga83's Avatar
    26,686 posts since Aug '02
    • Harpoon
      Harpoon Block II expands the capabilities of the Harpoon anti-ship weapon. Harpoon, the world's most successful anti-ship missile, features autonomous, all-weather, over-the-horizon capability.

      Harpoon Block II provides accurate long-range guidance for land and ship targets by incorporating the low-cost inertial measuring unit from the Boeing Joint Direct Attack Munition, or JDAM, program; and the software, mission computer, integrated Global Positioning System/Inertial Navigation System and the GPS antenna and receiver from the Standoff Land Attack Missile Expanded Response, or SLAM-ER.

      Harpoon Block II is capable of executing both land-strike and anti-ship missions. To strike targets on land and ships in port, the missile uses GPS-aided inertial navigation to hit a designated target aimpoint. The 500-pound blast warhead delivers lethal firepower against a wide variety of land-based targets, including coastal defense sites, surface-to-air missile sites, exposed aircraft, port/industrial facilities and ships in port. For conventional anti-ship missions, such as open ocean or near-land, the GPS/INS improves midcourse guidance to the target area. The accurate navigation solution allows users to discriminate target ships from islands or other nearby land masses or ships. These Block II improvements maintain Harpoon's high hit probability even against ships very close to land.

      The multi-mission Block II is deployable from all current Harpoon missile system platforms with either existing command and launch equipment or the new Advanced Harpoon Weapon Control System, or AHWCS.

      Block II is in production at Boeing facilities in St. Charles, Mo.

      Updated Dec. 2001

      http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/missiles/harpoon/harpoon_back.htm

  • SingaporeTyrannosaur's Avatar
    6,889 posts since Jan '03
    • Now that you say this, maybe we should plan arsenal submarines or stealth ships that carry tons can tons of harpoon block 2s, in the even of an opening war, over 150 missiles from such vessels will simultanously launch along with the airstrikes against important enemy targets. Sounds cool but only the americans can fund these toys…

  • observe's Avatar
    98 posts since Jan '03
    • Originally posted by duotiga83:
      Harpoon
      Harpoon Block II expands the capabilities of the Harpoon anti-ship weapon. Harpoon, the world's most successful anti-ship missile, features autonomous, all-weather, over-the-horizon capability.

      Harpoon Block II provides accurate long-range guidance for land and ship targets by incorporating the low-cost inertial measuring unit from the Boeing Joint Direct Attack Munition, or JDAM, program; and the software, mission computer, integrated Global Positioning System/Inertial Navigation System and the GPS antenna and receiver from the Standoff Land Attack Missile Expanded Response, or SLAM-ER.

      Harpoon Block II is capable of executing both land-strike and anti-ship missions. To strike targets on land and ships in port, the missile uses GPS-aided inertial navigation to hit a designated target aimpoint. The 500-pound blast warhead delivers lethal firepower against a wide variety of land-based targets, including coastal defense sites, surface-to-air missile sites, exposed aircraft, port/industrial facilities and ships in port. For conventional anti-ship missions, such as open ocean or near-land, the GPS/INS improves midcourse guidance to the target area. The accurate navigation solution allows users to discriminate target ships from islands or other nearby land masses or ships. These Block II improvements maintain Harpoon's high hit probability even against ships very close to land.

      The multi-mission Block II is deployable from all current Harpoon missile system platforms with either existing command and launch equipment or the new Advanced Harpoon Weapon Control System, or AHWCS.

      Block II is in production at Boeing facilities in St. Charles, Mo.

      Updated Dec. 2001

      http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/missiles/harpoon/harpoon_back.htm

      Oiii, Harpoon II is to hit a FIXED target.....Astros II is a MOBILE MLRS system -lah. You have to find the launchers first before you can do the target programming. After you launch, the launchers would have moved and all you hit are banana trees.
      BTW, Harpoon II is not for foreign sale yet. In anycase, the guys up north have Harpoons too that equipped their Fa-18D Hornet.

  • eurofighter's Avatar
    985 posts since Dec '02
    • How bout the Gabriels on our anti-surface PVs? In Janes’s latest warship recongnition guide, they are not in the armament section. However ADJ and the websitie naval-technology says we have them. RSN has not officially say we have them. So do we have them or not?

  • SingaporeTyrannosaur's Avatar
    6,889 posts since Jan '03
  • eurofighter's Avatar
    985 posts since Dec '02
    • Gabriels on MGBs or PVs? Gabriels on MGBs since 1970s already. Gabriels on PVs still blur.

      Edited by eurofighter 09 Jan `03, 2:41AM
  • Joe Black's Avatar
    863 posts since Oct '01
    • Originally posted by eurofighter:
      Gabriels on MGBs or PVs? Gabriels on MGBs since 1970s already. Gabriels on PVs still blur.

      They are fitted for, but not carrying them unless during war time. The survelliance/targeting radar from Israel already are compatible with Gabriels. The old navy CPC were in the same, but after transferring them to the Police Coast Guards, I don't think they are long Gabriel capable.

      Anywhere, why still use the Gabriel unless RSN has the Mk3 version???

  • Matlaysia's Avatar
    115 posts since Aug '02
    • Originally posted by observe:
      Oiii, Harpoon II is to hit a FIXED target.....Astros II is a MOBILE MLRS system -lah. You have to find the launchers first before you can do the target programming. After you launch, the launchers would have moved and all you hit are banana trees.
      BTW, Harpoon II is not for foreign sale yet. In anycase, the guys up north have Harpoons too that equipped their Fa-18D Hornet.

      actually it has already been sold to taiwan. After all we have a large stock pile of harpoons, some of the might be upgradable... Anyone knows?

  • buzz's Avatar
    69 posts since Nov '02
    • They are fitted for, but not carrying them unless during war time. The survelliance/targeting radar from Israel already are compatible with Gabriels. The old navy CPC were in the same, but after transferring them to the Police Coast Guards, I don't think they are long Gabriel capable.

      Anywhere, why still use the Gabriel unless RSN has the Mk3 version???

      Anyone with info on Singapore Gabriels........I believe they are a very different breed today.

  • Matlaysia's Avatar
    115 posts since Aug '02
    • Originally posted by buzz:
      Anyone with info on Singapore Gabriels........I believe they are a very different breed today.

      For a simple reason according to my cousin who was the ex-commander of RSS Vengence. He says that in a crowded water way like the Singapore and Malcaa strait, it is difficult to use the harpoon because chances are that there will be many ships in the vicinity of the target. Hence there would be an increase chance that a neutral target is hit if a Fire and forget missile is used because the fire and forget missiles function in such a way that it will fly to the coordinates given and after which its radar will home on to the target. Hence if there is more than 1 vessel in the vincinity of the target, there will be a chance that a friendly or neutral target might be hit. As the gabriel is wireguided, it prevents such a problem from happening becasue the missile controller with the aid of a joystick can steer the missile manually towards the target preventing such an incident from happening.

  • SingaporeTyrannosaur's Avatar
    6,889 posts since Jan '03
    • Wire guided? Hmm, an established method of defeating such missiles was to fire AA flack bursts towards it, hoping that the sharpnel will cut the wire, sending the missile otta control.

      Speaking of ack ack, everytime I go aerospace, I see ST Kinetics advertising a locally produced 30mm shell that explodes in a forward shower of tiny tungsten cubes. Supposed to be for our ack ack guns covering the island. From the damage I can see to the target drone, pretty impressive for 30mm flack, more concentrated and penetrating then most 30mm shell bursts.

  • YI's Avatar
    1,355 posts since Feb '00
    • Originally posted by Matlaysia:
      For a simple reason according to my cousin who was the ex-commander of RSS Vengence. He says that in a crowded water way like the Singapore and Malcaa strait, it is difficult to use the harpoon because chances are that there will be many ships in the vicinity of the target. Hence there would be an increase chance that a neutral target is hit if a Fire and forget missile is used because the fire and forget missiles function in such a way that it will fly to the coordinates given and after which its radar will home on to the target. Hence if there is more than 1 vessel in the vincinity of the target, there will be a chance that a friendly or neutral target might be hit. As the gabriel is wireguided, it prevents such a problem from happening becasue the missile controller with the aid of a joystick can steer the missile manually towards the target preventing such an incident from happening.

      how true. so will those neutral shipping avoided warship in time of war so as not to be used as shield?

  • foxtrout8's Avatar
    1,169 posts since May '02
    • actually one of the main uses of the grabiel missile is to attack enemy warship in congested sea lanes , i believe thats the reason y singapore is still keeping the old missiles.

  • Moderator
    Shotgun's Avatar
    7,238 posts since Jul '00
    • Heh... harpoons tend to do that. Hitting neutral ships that get in the way. Thats why the Harpoon can also be set to fly around some ships or obstacles, and finally perform a pop-up to acquire the target, and go active.

      With other ships in close proximity, I'd rather rely on the A4 flyboys to fly in with their mavericks and take out the ship's radar.

  • Matlaysia's Avatar
    115 posts since Aug '02
    • Originally posted by foxtrout8:
      actually one of the main uses of the grabiel missile is to attack enemy warship in congested sea lanes , i believe thats the reason y singapore is still keeping the old missiles.

      Yes that is one of the reasons because one cannot expect missiles to function properly 100 percent of the time. Just imagine now with 1 fearless class vessel damaged there is already so much public outcry of neglegence. Just think what would happen if a harpoon missile from an MCV accidentally hits a Cargo vessel or even worse an ocean liner. The harpoon was built to hit over the horizon for blue water engagements and are not so suittable for the reason as mentioned earlier. Just food for thought, did you realise that in the gulf war, no exocet or harpoon was fired against the iraqi navy. Instead most of the kills were scored using Super Lynx and US Naval fighters using the Sea Skua and LGB respectively because the allies could not risk a stray missile hitting neutral shipping. Also to answer the question on enemy ships hidding among Neutral shipping yup it is certainly possible especially in international waters and crowded waterways.

    • Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
      Now that you say this, maybe we should plan arsenal submarines or stealth ships that carry tons can tons of harpoon block 2s, in the even of an opening war, over 150 missiles froe m such vessels will simultanously launch along with the airstrikes against important enemy targets. Sounds cool but only the americans can fund these toys...

      Actually it could be a great idea. Especially if the stealth frigates and perhaps the future subs can be armed with block 2 harpoons. The subs will sneak via the south china sea to butterworth while another sneaks into the coast of kuantan. While a couple of frigates moves on to the coast of lumut where the RMN base is. And launch the harpoons simutaneously against Naval and A Force targets which can be immediately followed by A-4 and F-16 air to Ground strikes. Targetted at destroying the runways, hardened aircraft shelters and naval docks and Barracks of the aircrew and naval crew. This swift move will take out the MAF and the RMN simutaneously. This can be followed by and amphibious assault into Johor via the Kranji With FH-2000 support to blow up the Army barracks in Johor baru. This can be followed by addition strike by apaches and A-4 against the major Army headquarters and kota tinggi. And before they know it Johor will be singing majula Singapura

  • Joe Black's Avatar
    863 posts since Oct '01
    • Originally posted by Matlaysia:
      Just food for thought, did you realise that in the gulf war, no exocet or harpoon was fired against the iraqi navy. Instead most of the kills were scored using Super Lynx and US Naval fighters using the Sea Skua and LGB respectively because the allies could not risk a stray missile hitting neutral shipping. Also to answer the question on enemy ships hidding among Neutral shipping yup it is certainly possible especially in international waters and crowded waterways.

      But the Iraq did hit a US Stark frigate using an Exocet.

      I think we tend to only consider RSN theatre of operation is along the Melacca Straits or the Singapore Straits. In fact, the reason to acquire Harpoon is for RSN to be able to hit enemies at long range in South China sea. In times of conflict in the SEA countries, you can be assured that merchant, commerical and leisure ships will aviod the area like plague.

  • SingaporeTyrannosaur's Avatar
    6,889 posts since Jan '03
    • Bah, Malaysia navy must be insaneto engage RSN head on, not they have much of a choice anyway, stand off and they get pelted with Harpoons…

  • Matlaysia's Avatar
    115 posts since Aug '02
    • Originally posted by Joe Black:
      But the Iraq did hit a US Stark frigate using an Exocet.

      I think we tend to only consider RSN theatre of operation is along the Melacca Straits or the Singapore Straits. In fact, the reason to acquire Harpoon is for RSN to be able to hit enemies at long range in South China sea. In times of conflict in the SEA countries, you can be assured that merchant, commerical and leisure ships will aviod the area like plague.

      Yup the Iraqi's did hit the USS Stark twice using an Exocet. However, have you considered that the Exocet is about the only capable antiship missile owned by Iraq as the SS-2 Stylx will certainly not hit the anything. Also with the tanker war at its peak at that point in time it did not really matter whether the missiles hit Stark or not as it would be perfectly ok if the missile had hit a merchent ships.

  • laser51088's Avatar
    1,139 posts since Aug '02
    • can hardly find any info abt gabriel asm. . . supposed to be super low sea skimming one i think, the latest gabriels have to be preset according to current sea conditions cos they skim very low to avoid detection. . .anyone got more info? or want to correct mine? thx in advance. . .

      my two cents

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