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RMAF Purchase F/A-18F & Su-30MKM A Threat?

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  • duotiga83's Avatar
    26,686 posts since Aug '02
    • Originally posted by eurofighter:
      Another aircraft which has supercruise capability is the typhoon.

      n rafale

  • SingaporeTyrannosaur's Avatar
    6,889 posts since Jan '03
    • really… looks like it’s becoming routine on ATFs…

      Edited by SingaporeTyrannosaur 01 Feb `03, 1:30AM
  • Joe Black's Avatar
    863 posts since Oct '01
    • Originally posted by eurofighter:
      How good is their MiG-29N? Some malaysian guy say their Migs were able to outrun USN F/A-18C/D in exercises(probably wet dreaming after reading how IDF/AF thrash USN in air exercises).

      Mig 29 theoretically has a slighter better acceleration than the Bugs. However, during a dogfight (WVR engagement), a Mig29 will not be able to outrun chasing AIM-9M/X missiles, if the bugs are close enough and fire within the lethal perimeter of the missiles.

      Another point is that IAF defeated the USN mainly on dogfight engagements while the USN doctrine more or less based on BVR engagements. They want to down the charlies as far from the carriers as possible once a possible ID can be made (either via the ship or Hawkeyes radars, and IFFs). Unless the rule of engagement requires visual ID and pilots need to put their eyeballs on the targets, otherwise you will see them eagerly shooting amraams and sidewinders.

      IAF on the other hand excel in WVR dogfights as evidence in their win -lose ratio against Eygptian, Syrian and Jordanian air forces.

      Lastly, most of the USN aircrafts that were "shot down" where Tomcats rather than the Bugs. Yes, Mig29N does have an advantage over the bugs (as RAAF soon learnt during their war games with RMAF), however, according to RAAF pilots, they have tactics to defeat the Mig29Ns but of course these are closely guided secrets.

      I have also spoken to RSAF pilots who flew against the Hornets and other kinds that are good at low speed handling aircrafts which can achieve higher AoA than the Vipers. Many times part of the game is not to slow down to fight them, but to use the fast speed and energy at transonic speed range to deal with them. Vipers will beat Mig29 when flown close to Mach 1, but will rapidly lose out when the speed drops down to below 600 kts.

  • Moderator
    Shotgun's Avatar
    7,238 posts since Jul '00
    • 600kts is still not corner speed for a viper. For a viper to turn the fastest, the viper needs to maintain a corner speed of 330knts to 440knts. A pretty big 110knt buffer. At that speed, a 9 g-turn will give the viper a 20degree per sec turn radius. The fastest it can get.

      The thing about dogfights is not getting into one unecessarily. It involves a tremendous amount of courage, confidence and fuel.

      Given a top-end MiG-29, with Helmet targetting system, advanced avionics, and improved engines, it will be tough job to do. Which concludes that the RMAF fulcrums aren't that fantastic. The RAAF should try dogging with some Luftwaffe MiG-29s, probably the best MiG-29s in the world.

  • eurofighter's Avatar
    985 posts since Dec '02
    • Has the RMAF received AA-12 Adders? THey claimed they have. Malaysians on forums also say so. But why have we not received the AMRAAM as we were promised that once some country in the region fields a weapon of similar capability, we will receive them. There are no photos that show RMAF Mig-29s equipped with the missile but World Aircraft Information Files say they have test fired it in exercises with RAAF.

      Edited by eurofighter 01 Feb `03, 5:33PM
  • foxtrout8's Avatar
    1,169 posts since May '02
    • Originally posted by eurofighter:
      Has the RMAF received AA-12 Adders? THey claimed they have. Malaysians on forums also say so. But why have we not received the AMRAAM as we were promised that once some country in the region fields a weapon of similar capability, we will receive them. There are no photos that show RMAF Mig-29s equipped with the missile but World Aircraft Information Files say they have test fired it in exercises with RAAF.

      How u know we dun have the Amraam , plus that i will not be surprise if Singapore annouce the Derby in her current inventory.

      Sit back relax , the malaysia aqquisition of the SU-30 and the MiG-29 onli spells the intensive bilateral training with India and China , the malaysia purchase of the Hornets onli suggest more excercise with the Australians , and their arming of the Adder onli spells logistic and supply cock up during wartime for the malaysians. Currently no one knows wat is actually under the RSAF's sleeve on countering the enemies BVR capacity , dun be fooled but jus relax as the RSAF will continue to surprise us very soon and always.

      I dun think malaysia have tested the Adders in front of the Aussies , even if they do so , i dun think it is wise. The bloody weapon's capacity is the first in this part of the region , while singapore being a close ally with the Australians , y will they want to reveal how capable is their BVR capacity???

  • tripwire's Avatar
    2,470 posts since Feb '01
    • Originally posted by eurofighter:
      Has the RMAF received AA-12 Adders? THey claimed they have. Malaysians on forums also say so. But why have we not received the AMRAAM as we were promised that once some country in the region fields a weapon of similar capability, we will receive them. There are no photos that show RMAF Mig-29s equipped with the missile but World Aircraft Information Files say they have test fired it in exercises with RAAF.

      1... malaysians in the forum claimed their RMAF have AA12... but how do they know?? how many knows wat does the real AA12 looks like? how many would have the priveliege to see it if no photo are available?? and why would the malaysian govt keep harping they have the AA12 to their people... yet conviently failed to publish such a photo as evidence??

      seems to me... the malaysians are being taken for a ride by their "sensational" newspaper reports...

      2... IF RMAF did indeed recieved the AA12... i am pretty sure... even if RSAF remained unmoved... the RTAF would be clamouring the US for their AMRAAMs.... afterall... the thais have always viewed its southern neighbours with suspicion...

      3... IT was claimed that the RMAF test fired the AA12 with the aussies... i think it was a misunderstanding... because... i did heard of a RMAF joint excercise with RAAF not too long ago... where the RMAF fulcrum "fox" a AA12 and score a kill against the aussie hornets... BUT it is an ELECTRONIC kill... NO live missiles were fitted, neither were there any LIVE firing... either the RAAF would registered one hornet down...

      Thus... overall chances that the Fulcrum of RMAF totting AA12 is very very low... Mr. Green

  • SingaporeTyrannosaur's Avatar
    6,889 posts since Jan '03
    • The americans will not realease their AMRAAMs unless Singapore is in immediate threat, and they will not release it unless they agree with what we're fighting.

      That's why we're looking at other BVR missiles, like the British ones.

  • Moonstriker's Avatar
    1,065 posts since Aug '02
  • eurofighter's Avatar
    985 posts since Dec '02
  • Moderator
    Shotgun's Avatar
    7,238 posts since Jul '00
    • The missile is only as good as the plane's radar. Cos it still needs the aircraft to detect, lock and guide the missile initially.

      And honestly, I have no idea whether the adder is compatible with western avionics. I doubt so.

      Question is, is the radar on the current MiG-29 a russian radar?

  • eurofighter's Avatar
    985 posts since Dec '02
  • Moderator
    Shotgun's Avatar
    7,238 posts since Jul '00
  • duotiga83's Avatar
    26,686 posts since Aug '02
    • Originally posted by Shotgun:
      Question is, is the radar on the current MiG-29 a russian radar?

      yup is a russian radar..i 4get wad is e name liao....

  • Moderator
    Shotgun's Avatar
    7,238 posts since Jul '00
  • Pressure-Forward's Avatar
    99 posts since Jan '03
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