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Loading level on buses (Part 2)

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  • carbikebus's Avatar
    20,584 posts since Nov '03
    • 83 & 85 this school holidays loadings is below average..Still using full DD...

      Wastage of fuel to see many DDs with Low loadings during off peak..Peak hour loadings also very hard to cover back fuel cost.

  • BusAnalayzer's Avatar
    10,525 posts since May '12
    • Originally posted by Marvel68:

      Loading level on 122

      Date & Time: Fri 24/11, 6.48pm - 7.18pm (PM Peak)

      From 06011 Opp Outram Park Stn to 11169 C'wealth Stn Exit B/C

      Distance of bus ahead: 6 mins

      Outram Rd-- 5 (+5/-0) 

      Tiong Bahru Rd -- 6 (+2/-1) 

      Tiong Bahru MRT Station -- 13 (+9/-1) 

      Lower Delta Rd -- 13 (0/0)

      Alexandra Rd -- 16 (+4/-1)

      Alexandra Rd (Redhill MRT) -- 9 (+0/-6)

      Tanglin Rd -- 6 (+0/-3)

      Kay Siang Rd -- 8 (+2/0)

      Margaret Dr -- 8 (+1/-1)

      Queensway -- 7 (0/-1)

      C'wealth Dr -- 4 (+2/-5)

      C'wealth MRT (alighted here) -- 2 (+1/-3)

      • Generally very poor loading throughout the route during PM peak hours
      • Peak loading is between Tiong Bahru MRT Station and Alexandra Rd (16 pax)
      • Few pax actually takes 122 from Tiong Bahru MRT to Dawson estate

      Dawson estate has so many new BTOs and high occupancy yet 122 loading remains below 20-25 pax even during peak hours due to its poorly designed route.

    • Originally posted by carbikebus:

      Now school holidays very unpredictable..102 I've seen full seated with no standees and only around 6-7 pax at the upper deck during AM peak..Others just between Low and moderate..Fleet for now is 4 DD & 4 SD and it would be better with 5 SD & 3 DD instead 

      I don't agree. 102 loading between Sengkang west and Sengkang MRT can reach 90 pax during AM peak, also from Upper Serangoon Rd reaches 70-75 pax. Around 20 pax will alight before turning right to Hougang central. PM peak loading is more spread out.

    • Originally posted by carbikebus:

      83 & 85 this school holidays loadings is below average..Still using full DD...

      Wastage of fuel to see many DDs with Low loadings during off peak..Peak hour loadings also very hard to cover back fuel cost.

      83 is really bad case. Most times got 30-40 pax. 85 can still get 50-60 pax between Sengkang West and Yishun. 

    • Originally posted by Travellator:

      Loading level of Svc 102 (SD) from Hougang Central Int twds Jln Kayu roundabout  @ 11:44am (24/11/17 Friday) Off Peak, Bus in front = 11min, Bus behind = 8min

       

      Hougang Int -- 6(0/6)

      Upp S'goon Rd -- 8(0/2), 11(0/3), 15(-3/7), 15(-2/2)

      Buangkok Dr -- 14(-2/1), 13(-1/0), 14(0/1)

      Sengkang Central -- 7(-9/2) --> Buangkok MRT , 6(-1/0)

      Compassvale Rd -- 5(-1/0), 4(-1/0)

      SK East Way -- 7(-1/4), 5(-2/0), 8(0/3)

      SK West Way -- 6(-2/0), 6(-1/1), 5(-1/0)

      Jln Kayu -- 7(0/2), 8(-3/4) --> Looping Point (Jln Kayu Roundabout)

      Jln Kayu -- 9(0/1), 8(-1/0) --> Alighted here @ b/s 68049 @1215pm (31 min used)

       

       

      *Highest loading = 15 pax along Upp S'goon Rd. Highest pax boarding activity = 7 pax occured at b/s 64061 Opp S'goon Sec Sch, whereas highest pax alighting = 9 pax occured at Buangkok MRT.

      *Loading is mediocre to bad in this off-peak hour. We can see that the highest activity sector is for Upp S'goon residents to commute to nearby Buangkok MRT. Surprisingly, demand from SK MRT to Jln Kayu is bad, I guess weekend's demand to Jln Kayu is much better?

      *Observed a few buses along Jln Kayu and saw that other svcs like 85, 86 and 103 has more pax onboard than 102, which had at least 10 pax inside. Due to the behind bus is only 8 min apart, it only has 3-4 pax onboard, which is even lesser.

      Does anyone knows what's the peak hour's loading like? And the demand of the direction back to Hougang Interchange?

      IMO doing off-peak loading analysis doesn't tell much about any service. Try to do peak hours whenever possible. 

  • carbikebus's Avatar
    20,584 posts since Nov '03
    • Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:

      I don't agree. 102 loading between Sengkang west and Sengkang MRT can reach 90 pax during AM peak, also from Upper Serangoon Rd reaches 70-75 pax. Around 20 pax will alight before turning right to Hougang central. PM peak loading is more spread out.

      1-2 trips the most,As I say...3 DDs is more than enough.

  • Travellator's Avatar
    30 posts since Aug '17
    • Loading level of Svc 109 (SD) from b/s 66361  @ 11:25am (27/11/17 Monday) Off Peak, Bus in front = 10min, Bus behind = 11min

       

      S'goon Ave 2 -- 4(0/2)

      Boundary Rd -- 3(-1/0)

      YCK Rd -- 6(0/3), 7(0/1)

      HG Ave 9 -- 4(-4/1) --> Hougang 1, 2(-2/0), 9(0/7) --> Ciyuan CC

      HG Ave 4 -- 14(0/5)

      Buangkok Green -- 12(-3/1)

      SK East Rd -- 10(-2/0), 7(-4/1), 6(-2/1), 7(-1/2), 9(-1/3)

      TPE -- 14(-1/6)

      Pasir Ris Dr 12 -- 13(-2/1)

      Pasir Ris Dr 1 -- 15(-1/3), 14(-1/0), 12(-2/0), 11(-2/1) --> Pasir Ris Central, 12(0/1), 14(0/2), 13(-1/0)

      Pasir Ris Dr 2 -- 11(-2/0) ---> Alighted here at 1219pm (54 min used) (Loyang Point)

       

      *Highest loading = 15 pax at first b/s of Pasir Ris Dr 1. 2nd highest loading = 14 pax occured at both HG ave 4 and TPE

      *Off peak demand is mediocre to low. (maybe is due to the headway of 10 min of the front bus?) Highest pax boarding activity of 7 pax occured at HG Ciyuan CC, while there are also 6 pax boarding at TPE towards Pasir Ris town.

      *Thus we can see that at this hour there are two waves of demand, one is from HG Ave 9/ 4 to SK town. And another one is from TPE to Pasir Ris/Changi Village.

      *I'm surprised at the low demand at Pasir Ris Central, I thought many ppl should be taking this to Changi Village for their lunch or something.

      I know this service peak hour demand is very high from S'goon Int to HG Ave 9 /4, thus the deployment of 109A. How about the part after HG Ave 4 and the other direction? Does anybody has the data?

  • BusAnalayzer's Avatar
    10,525 posts since May '12
    • ** Replies to your points below ** 

      *Off peak demand is mediocre to low. (maybe is due to the headway of 10 min of the front bus?) Highest pax boarding activity of 7 pax occured at HG Ciyuan CC, while there are also 6 pax boarding at TPE towards Pasir Ris town. BA: Off peak demand is low on most services. You cannot draw conclusions. Please take the bus during peak hours and you will know the loading.  

      *Thus we can see that at this hour there are two waves of demand, one is from HG Ave 9/ 4 to SK town. And another one is from TPE to Pasir Ris/Changi Village. 

      *I'm surprised at the low demand at Pasir Ris Central, I thought many ppl should be taking this to Changi Village for their lunch or something. BA: Loading can be 70-90 pax during AM peak towards Changi Village. Not just from Pasir Ris Central but overall Pasir Ris town. The DDs are timed for this. 

      I know this service peak hour demand is very high from S'goon Int to HG Ave 9 /4, thus the deployment of 109A. How about the part after HG Ave 4 and the other direction? Does anybody has the data? BA: Loading is between Changi Village and Sengkand during PM, and other way round between NEX and HG Ave 4. In PM, from HG Ave 4 to NEX, loading is usually 30-40 pax only. 

  • carbikebus's Avatar
    20,584 posts since Nov '03
    • 109 way too many SDs,total of 11 SDs and 6 DDs..Fleet should be 10 SDs & 7 DDs although I agree there is no need for majority DDs

      Edited by carbikebus 01 Dec `17, 8:02PM
    • SBST has done a good job of managing service 47..Used to start with 5 DD & 5 SD but loadings just after peak hours is so Low that they convert 1 full day DD to SD..Current is 6 SDs & 4 DDs with 3 DDs operating on split shift..Weekends can still see 2 full day DDs as it justified given the high frequency 

  • Travellator's Avatar
    30 posts since Aug '17
    • Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:

      ** Replies to your points below ** 

      *Off peak demand is mediocre to low. (maybe is due to the headway of 10 min of the front bus?) Highest pax boarding activity of 7 pax occured at HG Ciyuan CC, while there are also 6 pax boarding at TPE towards Pasir Ris town. BA: Off peak demand is low on most services. You cannot draw conclusions. Please take the bus during peak hours and you will know the loading.  

      *Thus we can see that at this hour there are two waves of demand, one is from HG Ave 9/ 4 to SK town. And another one is from TPE to Pasir Ris/Changi Village. 

      *I'm surprised at the low demand at Pasir Ris Central, I thought many ppl should be taking this to Changi Village for their lunch or something. BA: Loading can be 70-90 pax during AM peak towards Changi Village. Not just from Pasir Ris Central but overall Pasir Ris town. The DDs are timed for this. 

      I know this service peak hour demand is very high from S'goon Int to HG Ave 9 /4, thus the deployment of 109A. How about the part after HG Ave 4 and the other direction? Does anybody has the data? BA: Loading is between Changi Village and Sengkand during PM, and other way round between NEX and HG Ave 4. In PM, from HG Ave 4 to NEX, loading is usually 30-40 pax only. 

      That's why I said it's "off peak demand". Some of the services do have high off-peak demand like Svc 187. Moreover some services' loading patterns of peak and off-peak do differ sometimes, that's why it's interesting to do an observation of it.

      Thanks for ur info though. We are here to share what we observed and do what we love. Cheers.

      Edited by Travellator 02 Dec `17, 1:12PM
  • array88's Avatar
    1,452 posts since May '14
    • Originally posted by Travellator:

      That's why I said it's "off peak demand". Some of the services do have high off-peak demand like Svc 187. Moreover some services' loading patterns of peak and off-peak do differ sometimes, that's why it's interesting to do an observation of it.

      Thanks for ur info though. We are here to share what we observed and do what we love. Cheers.

      Agree... I think off-peak demand is also a component of loading patterns for a service, and from the perspective of deployments, it is almost as important as peak demand because it helps determine whether there should be more A/P shifts or S shifts, and whether DDs should be deployed full day or only for A/P shifts, etc.

      Although one can easily claim that all services get very low loading during off-peak, there are services with moderate or even high loadings, for example with buses packed to the door just after school hours...

  • SMB128B's Avatar
    4,981 posts since May '11
    • Tbvh 109 does have off peak loading anyway.. some buses can hit the expy fully seated with standing pax

  • Travellator's Avatar
    30 posts since Aug '17
    • Originally posted by array88:

      Agree... I think off-peak demand is also a component of loading patterns for a service, and from the perspective of deployments, it is almost as important as peak demand because it helps determine whether there should be more A/P shifts or S shifts, and whether DDs should be deployed full day or only for A/P shifts, etc.

      Although one can easily claim that all services get very low loading during off-peak, there are services with moderate or even high loadings, for example with buses packed to the door just after school hours...

      This is exactly what i mean. You couldn't have said any better.

      Edited by Travellator 02 Dec `17, 1:13PM
    • Originally posted by SMB128B:

      Tbvh 109 does have off peak loading anyway.. some buses can hit the expy fully seated with standing pax

      Agree, I remember boarding svc 851(DD) one day at around 2-3pm around marymount road and it was fully packed even at the upper deck...

  • Sbs6750E's Avatar
    1,953 posts since May '15
    • Even svc like 50/86/163 have satisfactory loading during off peak, more so during lunch break.

  • Waynechew1003's Avatar
    212 posts since Apr '17
    • Originally posted by Sbs6750E:

      Even svc like 50/86/163 have satisfactory loading during off peak, more so during lunch break.

      50 off peak quite high

    • Has anyone one look at Bus service  loading that runs tgt with DTL3?

      Edited by Waynechew1003 02 Dec `17, 10:38PM
  • BusAnalayzer's Avatar
    10,525 posts since May '12
    • Originally posted by array88:

      Agree... I think off-peak demand is also a component of loading patterns for a service, and from the perspective of deployments, it is almost as important as peak demand because it helps determine whether there should be more A/P shifts or S shifts, and whether DDs should be deployed full day or only for A/P shifts, etc.

      Although one can easily claim that all services get very low loading during off-peak, there are services with moderate or even high loadings, for example with buses packed to the door just after school hours...

      That's fine but let's not draw conclusions on peak hour loading based on off-peak. 

  • SMB1368T's Avatar
    1,213 posts since Mar '16
  • Waynechew1003's Avatar
    212 posts since Apr '17
  • carbikebus's Avatar
    20,584 posts since Nov '03
    • Some service got higher loadings during peak but rather Low during off peak but again the peak hour loadings can cover the cost for all that.What is worrying service with moderate to Low loadings throughout the day like 46 and still using more DDs in its fleet.119 to begin with,When I emailed LTA their reply is standard "Adequate loadings and buses for 136 etc and why the hell Low loading service 119 gets a consistent of 2-3 DDs when 136 is not?

    • I rather take 4 DDs from 85 to 359,Take 3 DDs from 83 to 3,Take those 119 DDs to 136 rather than wasting more fuel seeing empty DDs running all the time

  • Waynechew1003's Avatar
    212 posts since Apr '17
    • Originally posted by carbikebus:

      Some service got higher loadings during peak but rather Low during off peak but again the peak hour loadings can cover the cost for all that.What is worrying service with moderate to Low loadings throughout the day like 46 and still using more DDs in its fleet.119 to begin with,When I emailed LTA their reply is standard "Adequate loadings and buses for 136 etc and why the hell Low loading service 119 gets a consistent of 2-3 DDs when 136 is not?

      119 can do with 1 DD and rest SD 

      136 - DD on peak

      3 - 3 full day DD while another 2 more for peak

      83 and 85 can cut 3-4 dd

      46 also can cut 1-2 DD

  • carbikebus's Avatar
    20,584 posts since Nov '03
    • Originally posted by Waynechew1003:

      119 can do with 1 DD and rest SD 

      136 - DD on peak

      3 - 3 full day DD while another 2 more for peak

      83 and 85 can cut 3-4 dd

      46 also can cut 1-2 DD

      Service 3 deserved 4 full day & 3 split DDs on weekdays

      Saturdays need 3 full DDs & 2 S/T DDs and Sundays just 3-4 full DDs given the 12-14 mins frequency. 136 need 3 split DDs during weekdays and 2 full DDs during weekends. 

      Edited by carbikebus 03 Dec `17, 5:30PM
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