24 May, 01:30PM in sunny Singapore!

Questions about S'pore buses? Post them here! (Part 8)

Subscribe to Questions about S'pore buses? Post them here! (Part 8) 875 posts

Please Login or Signup to reply.
  • BusAnalayzer's Avatar
    10,660 posts since May '12
    • Originally posted by smb91y:

      Concerning service 180, who here:

      Prefers a mixed fleet of Rigid Single-Deckers, Articulated and Double-Decker?

      Or a full Double-Decker fleet consisting of B9TLs from SBST? 

      Do state your choice and reason. I just want to understand public opinion. 

      180 is doing perfect with full fleet DD. No need for bendies or rigids. 

  • smb91y's Avatar
    48 posts since Nov '16
    • Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:

      180 is doing perfect with full fleet DD. No need for bendies or rigids. 

      I kinda agree. Demand requires high-capacity buses. But don't you think full rojak B9TL fleet is cancer? At least mix B9TL/Enviro/A95. 

    • Originally posted by carbikebus:

      In general,180 do have quite of number of long distance travellers so its best full DDs with B9TL/E500 & a couple of A95.

      Which is what I meant. :) 

    • Originally posted by 201911:

      Generally 180 has moderate to high demand throughout the day, best not to put rigids. Bendies can board and alight faster esp at Bt Panjang, but cause jam at the temp bus stop beside the lrt, although situation shld improve when bus int opens. DDs still ok now since mostly long distance travellers, but likely to have more boarding/alighting along bt batok in future when the new flats are ready. 

      My preference: 3 door DD >> bendy >> B9TL >> mixed fleet (messy + cause bunching)

      Articulated buses would be nice but hog roads at bukit panjang. 

  • Sbs6750E's Avatar
    1,984 posts since May '15
    • Originally posted by smb91y:

      Which is what I meant. :) 


      Commuters care more about the types of buses used(SD/DD/BD) than bus models used(B9/E500/A95).

  • carbikebus's Avatar
    21,590 posts since Nov '03
    • Originally posted by Sbs6750E:


      Commuters care more about the types of buses used(SD/DD/BD) than bus models used(B9/E500/A95).

      180 is fine for DD,Long distance travellers usually seated upstairs..

  • AJQZC's Avatar
    1,043 posts since Sep '08
    • Anyone knows when would bus services 20/47/118 be diverted back to Changi South Ave 1 (outside Expo MRT)?

      Edited by AJQZC 01 Mar `17, 10:51PM
  • BusAnalayzer's Avatar
    10,660 posts since May '12
    • Originally posted by AJQZC:

      Anyone knows when would bus services 20/47/118 be diverted back to Changi South Ave 1 (outside Expo MRT)?

      Only svc 20 would... 47/118 would continue via Xilin as they have bus stops there, whereas 20 is express. 

  • AJQZC's Avatar
    1,043 posts since Sep '08
    • Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:

      Only svc 20 would... 47/118 would continue via Xilin as they have bus stops there, whereas 20 is express. 

      I meant WHEN ... seeing that Changi South Ave 1 is semi-open since late January. At the same time there's still no sign of bus stops along the new stretch of road, or along Expo Dr / Somapah Rd.

      Also it's possible that at least one of the two services may be diverted there to serve DTL3 Expo (skipping CS Ave 2, with Yusen being within walking distance to the next stop). Likely 47, seeing that the diverted 20 from the same stop would already provide a link to DTL3. Unless a new service is introduced in the meantime.

  • orange28's Avatar
    221 posts since Feb '10
    • Originally posted by AJQZC:

      I meant WHEN ... seeing that Changi South Ave 1 is semi-open since late January. At the same time there's still no sign of bus stops along the new stretch of road, or along Expo Dr / Somapah Rd.

      Also it's possible that at least one of the two services may be diverted there to serve DTL3 Expo (skipping CS Ave 2, with Yusen being within walking distance to the next stop). Likely 47, seeing that the diverted 20 from the same stop would already provide a link to DTL3. Unless a new service is introduced in the meantime.

      I think you've answered your question right there. There's still some construction going on so no place to put the pair of bus stops outside Expo MRT right now ...

      Also, agree that if anything, only svc 20 would be diverted. Svcs 47 and 118 should be kept as they are right now ...

  • gekpohboy's Avatar
    2,180 posts since Mar '16
    • What's the cost of running a bus service? Anyone knows?

      Like, for a particular bus service, how much does one trip cost to operate?

  • TIB868X's Avatar
    1,514 posts since Aug '11
    • Originally posted by gekpohboy:

      What's the cost of running a bus service? Anyone knows?

      Like, for a particular bus service, how much does one trip cost to operate?

      There are too many variables such as manpower costs, peak hour vehicle requirement, fuel costs, other overhead costs and total mileage operated per day or per hour, to give a definite answer. 

  • gekpohboy's Avatar
    2,180 posts since Mar '16
    • Just look at the City Direct bus services' contract amount lor, then divide by the number of trip, and the length of route, to get roughly how much it costs per kilometre.

      For example, the city direct 651. The first contract was awarded in 2013 to Comfort Delgro for $1,073,960.00, two years.

      The route length is around 25.35km (morning - 25.4km; evening - 25.3km) and two trips operated 2 times a day, 10 times a week, 40 times a month, 960 times over two years; total 1920 trips over two years.

      $1,073,960.00 / 1920 trips = $559.35 per trip

      $559.35 / 25.35km = $22.07 per kilometre ($23)

      :. $23 per kilometre, in 2013 prices.

      Factor in 2% inflation over four years from 2013 to 2017, the cost of running a bus service should be around $25 per kilometre this year (23 x 1.02 x 1.02 x 1.02 x 1.02).

       

      $559.35 per trip (during Comfort Delgro's time), when the fare is only $2.47 and the bus is the standard 40-seater. The bus had only about 20 people per trip. Revenue only $49.40. Even if full house (40 pax), the most is only $98.80 of revenue collected. Can only recover up to 17% of the costs.

      Hopefully the new operator for city direct 651, Rui Feng, had asked for a lower cost price when they bid for the contract.

      Anyway, this means that if the bus fares were really set at market prices, we could be paying six times the amount of bus fare we are paying now! (100 / 17 = 5.88)

      (Or to make it simple, the transport fares multiply by six.)

       

      $439.20 on public transport every month, anyone?

      For a low income person, earning $2000 a month, that's 22% of his monthly salary.

      For a high income person, earning $5000 a month, that's 9% of his monthly salary.

      Thankfully, the government collects progressive tax, where the rich pays more, poor pays less.

       

      Or at least make a few categories of bus service charge market prices, such as express bus, city direct bus and night owl.

      because anyway, even if charge $16.20 for a ride on express bus service, it's still cheaper than taxi, by around 50%. Not to mention midnight got 50% surcharge. So, why not charge market prices for these type of bus services, to reduce the amount of subsidy on public transport? (as long as night owl don't charge midnight surcharge) #justsaying

      Edited by gekpohboy 04 Mar `17, 12:41AM
    • Anyway, if let's say the cost of running a bus route is $25 per kilometre, and the government subsidise 80%, for a bus service to have "healthy loading", it should collect $5 of revenue per kilometre.

      $5 = 7 Adult passengers board the bus, per kilometre.

      (2 Student/Elderly = 1 Adult)

      With this gauge, we can identify which bus services have "healthy loading", and which bus services do not.

      Edited by gekpohboy 04 Mar `17, 12:49AM
  • sgbuses's Avatar
    2,406 posts since Nov '05
    • Originally posted by gekpohboy:

      What's the cost of running a bus service? Anyone knows?

      Like, for a particular bus service, how much does one trip cost to operate?

      The government, on average, subsidizes at least 55 cents per trip (including transfers and feeders).

      Before 2015, the average bus fare was usually the minimum bus fare. Today's minimum bus fare (card) is currently at 77 cents.

      Based on these two figures, the break even fare (or actual cost of bus operation) for each passenger (including transfers and feeders) is around $1.30 per trip.

      Keep in mind though, some feeder transfers can be as low as 0 to 3 cents, so an average bus only journey might in fact be 50% to double to operate (assuming quarter to half are MRT to feeder transfers). It is possible the average bus only journey costs around $2.00 per trip.

      Edited by sgbuses 04 Mar `17, 9:57AM
  • smb91y's Avatar
    48 posts since Nov '16
    • Is it me or... B9TL CDGEs are faster than even their WEG2 counterparts? Euro 4 K UBs faster than their Euro 5 counterparts? I understand the engine in both K UBs are different, torque range different maybe. But can someone explain to me why CDGE B9TLs are faster than  even Batch 4 WEG2s? 

  • hgdep103's Avatar
    310 posts since Sep '16
    • Originally posted by smb91y:

      Is it me or... B9TL CDGEs are faster than even their WEG2 counterparts? Euro 4 K UBs faster than their Euro 5 counterparts? I understand the engine in both K UBs are different, torque range different maybe. But can someone explain to me why CDGE B9TLs are faster than  even Batch 4 WEG2s? 

      you are right, even from a BC's perspective they say the same things

  • carbikebus's Avatar
    21,590 posts since Nov '03
    • Originally posted by smb91y:

      Is it me or... B9TL CDGEs are faster than even their WEG2 counterparts? Euro 4 K UBs faster than their Euro 5 counterparts? I understand the engine in both K UBs are different, torque range different maybe. But can someone explain to me why CDGE B9TLs are faster than  even Batch 4 WEG2s? 

      CDGE B9TL are not owned by the LTA..Tried and test buses..Obviously they're retuned for better acceleration..Euro IV Scania is much faster than Euro V because the latter is restricted between the first and second gears..

    • Same thing like SG A95 vs SMB A95.But as always,There is a few in the fleets that are up to mark performance.

    • Have you seen some Citaro actually can tail behind a A22 from 1st-3rd gear?

  • Singtel Sticker's Avatar
    85 posts since May '16
    • Why MAN A24s and MAN A95s always have that farting sound when it stops?It is because of the handbrake or?

      Edited by Singtel Sticker 05 Mar `17, 9:48AM
  • AtlasSava's Avatar
    122 posts since Mar '16
    • Originally posted by Singtel Sticker:

      Why MAN A24s and MAN A95s always have that farting sound when it stops?It is because oft the handbreak or?

      Handbrake

  • smb91y's Avatar
    48 posts since Nov '16
    • Originally posted by carbikebus:

      Have you seen some Citaro actually can tail behind a A22 from 1st-3rd gear?

      SMB 144 D managed to keep up to a Batch 2 A22. 

  • TPS Timothy Mok's Avatar
    1,254 posts since Aug '07
    • Originally posted by sgbuses:

      The government, on average, subsidizes at least 55 cents per trip (including transfers and feeders).

      Before 2015, the average bus fare was usually the minimum bus fare. Today's minimum bus fare (card) is currently at 77 cents.

      Based on these two figures, the break even fare (or actual cost of bus operation) for each passenger (including transfers and feeders) is around $1.30 per trip.

      Keep in mind though, some feeder transfers can be as low as 0 to 3 cents, so an average bus only journey might in fact be 50% to double to operate (assuming quarter to half are MRT to feeder transfers). It is possible the average bus only journey costs around $2.00 per trip.

      They will manage to add the surcharge fee, and if possible reduce bus and train fare from 5am to 12am.

  • Scopittabuses's Avatar
    145 posts since Mar '17
Please Login or Signup to reply.