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Bus Contracting Model (part 2)

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  • carbikebus's Avatar
    20,592 posts since Nov '03
    • Originally posted by dupdup77:

      Hi mr lemon1974, I read it before. But you know right? Previously said announce in march 2017 then goal posts keep shifting again? So I don't believe every single thing. Once they came to a conclusion, they may just announce it. 

      Just like they can announce the delay of the closure of seletar tender for a few weeks from early to late October after the famous Go Ahead fiasco when taking over loyang depot and start operations in sep 2017. Cheers. Thanks.

      Then suddenly pop up without we even know it...Just wait and see lor..

  • okayla's Avatar
    4 posts since Mar '17
    • Originally posted by lemon1974:

       Next month, we will be awarding the tender for the third bus package at Seletar. The tender has now closed. I was looking at the bids and it has attracted very competitive bids, with lower prices on average compared to the previous two tenders. This is good for taxpayers

       

      TT price for Bulim was 550m but much less buses at start. Other bidders were also 500+;

      Seletar has 420 buses when start, so everyone's price is cheap "compared to previous".

      It is not simple to award to anyone. Think of why it takes long for LTA to struggle and haven't made a decision? Loyang's disaster will happen again if no enough pay. No one wants that result. And dun forget it is creating more jobs.

      Edited by okayla 28 Mar `17, 3:51PM
  • gekpohboy's Avatar
    2,180 posts since Mar '16
    • All, tomorrow is 31 March. The Straits Times says that "Seletar package is expected to be awarded by the end of this month." Cheers. Thanks.

      Edited by gekpohboy 30 Mar `17, 7:57PM
  • carbikebus's Avatar
    20,592 posts since Nov '03
    • Originally posted by okayla:

      TT price for Bulim was 550m but much less buses at start. Other bidders were also 500+;

      Seletar has 420 buses when start, so everyone's price is cheap "compared to previous".

      It is not simple to award to anyone. Think of why it takes long for LTA to struggle and haven't made a decision? Loyang's disaster will happen again if no enough pay. No one wants that result. And dun forget it is creating more jobs.

      πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»

  • CZT's Avatar
    521 posts since Jun '16
    • Originally posted by gekpohboy:

      All, tomorrow is 31 March. The Straits Times says that "Seletar package is expected to be awarded by the end of this month." Cheers. Thanks.

      Hope so too! And a small minority including me would looks forward to the Transtar TS3 cross border as well, which is also reported to release its route details in March.

      Haiz well how much can we trust the media which reports things and it doesnt happen? Always annoys me >:(

  • Sbs6750E's Avatar
    1,953 posts since May '15
    • Originally posted by CZT:

      Hope so too! And a small minority including me would looks forward to the Transtar TS3 cross border as well, which is also reported to release its route details in March.

      Haiz well how much can we trust the media which reports things and it doesnt happen? Always annoys me >:(


      TS3 go where ah?

  • CZT's Avatar
    521 posts since Jun '16
    • Originally posted by Sbs6750E:


      TS3 go where ah?

      Marina Centre to JB Customs (or Larkin?) via Woodlands. Gekpohboy posted it in the forum some time ago somewhere. Iirc his source came from lianhe wanbao (tabloid papers can trust?). They also reported TS6 which details will come at a later date.

      Edited by CZT 30 Mar `17, 9:17PM
  • array88's Avatar
    1,453 posts since May '14
    • Originally posted by gekpohboy:

      All, tomorrow is 31 March. The Straits Times says that "Seletar package is expected to be awarded by the end of this month." Cheers. Thanks.

      Didn't some people already quote LTA saying it's delayed to next month?

  • CZT's Avatar
    521 posts since Jun '16
    • Originally posted by array88:

      Didn't some people already quote LTA saying it's delayed to next month?

      Did it? Where is the source thou? Maybe it is good to double confirm than plainly referring to the people

  • Sbs6750E's Avatar
    1,953 posts since May '15
    • Originally posted by CZT:

      Marina Centre to JB Customs (or Larkin?) via Woodlands. Gekpohboy posted it in the forum some time ago somewhere. Iirc his source came from lianhe wanbao (tabloid papers can trust?). They also reported TS6 which details will come at a later date.


      thanks.

  • array88's Avatar
    1,453 posts since May '14
    • Originally posted by CZT:

      Did it? Where is the source thou? Maybe it is good to double confirm than plainly referring to the people

      Originally posted by lemon1974:

      quoted from the transport minister speech earlier this month during the budget debate:

       

       Next month, we will be awarding the tender for the third bus package at Seletar. The tender has now closed. I was looking at the bids and it has attracted very competitive bids, with lower prices on average compared to the previous two tenders. This is good for taxpayers

      and looking at the 3rd/4th sentence, i dun think LTA will award to busways which is 100 million higher in their bid price... 100 million = cost of 200 new DDs buses.and 

       

      On page 57 of this thread

  • iveco's Avatar
    17,123 posts since Mar '04
  • array88's Avatar
    1,453 posts since May '14
    • Originally posted by iveco:

      How much did Kumho bid?

      538.8 million as quoted from Land Transport Guru

  • carbikebus's Avatar
    20,592 posts since Nov '03
  • gekpohboy's Avatar
    2,180 posts since Mar '16
    • We all know they have to have a victor. Without a victor, the whole thing would turn out to be a joke of the century. They'd have failed the commuters. Might possibly even be criticised, slowly and painfully, while the media reports it to every screen in the country.

      Edited by gekpohboy 31 Mar `17, 12:11PM
  • lemon1974's Avatar
    9,400 posts since Dec '04
    • Originally posted by okayla:

      TT price for Bulim was 550m but much less buses at start. Other bidders were also 500+;

      Seletar has 420 buses when start, so everyone's price is cheap "compared to previous".

      It is not simple to award to anyone. Think of why it takes long for LTA to struggle and haven't made a decision? Loyang's disaster will happen again if no enough pay. No one wants that result. And dun forget it is creating more jobs.

      ya.. bulim have around 30 less buses than Seletar. but TT have taken 150 + DD from SBST. while the seletar package only have around100 high capacity buses right now.. the operating cost thus is different also...

      i did not say that it is simple to aware to anyone,..... i only say that if LTA award to busways(The highest bidder), then LTA need to explain why it is spending 100 million more for 5 years to ask Busway to operate?  will the passengers willing to pay more for their bus fares?  for those bus fans, they would definitely wan new operators... but to the ordinary passengers,they does not really care who operate the buses. as long as the buses come regularly and fares DOES NOT increase, they will be happy.

      for loyang package, LTA have say that all the proposal are quite similar (have similar weightage) and thus price is the deciding factor.. the GA issue, is due to GA wrong calculation of their cost..... 

      and GA have to face the consequences since they bid that particular amount.. 

       

  • dupdup77's Avatar
    3,062 posts since Nov '13
    • Originally posted by lemon1974:

      ya.. bulim have around 30 less buses than Seletar. but TT have taken 150 + DD from SBST. while the seletar package only have around100 high capacity buses right now.. the operating cost thus is different also...

      i did not say that it is simple to aware to anyone,..... i only say that if LTA award to busways(The highest bidder), then LTA need to explain why it is spending 100 million more for 5 years to ask Busway to operate?  will the passengers willing to pay more for their bus fares?  for those bus fans, they would definitely wan new operators... but to the ordinary passengers,they does not really care who operate the buses. as long as the buses come regularly and fares DOES NOT increase, they will be happy.

      for loyang package, LTA have say that all the proposal are quite similar (have similar weightage) and thus price is the deciding factor.. the GA issue, is due to GA wrong calculation of their cost..... 

      and GA have to face the consequences since they bid that particular amount.. 

       

      Hi mr lemon1974, you did not get the facts correct. Busways is not the highest bidder as claimed. Woodlands transport is the highest at 583 million. Cheers. Thanks.

  • okayla's Avatar
    4 posts since Mar '17
    • Originally posted by lemon1974:

      ya.. bulim have around 30 less buses than Seletar. but TT have taken 150 + DD from SBST. while the seletar package only have around100 high capacity buses right now.. the operating cost thus is different also...

      i did not say that it is simple to aware to anyone,..... i only say that if LTA award to busways(The highest bidder), then LTA need to explain why it is spending 100 million more for 5 years to ask Busway to operate?  will the passengers willing to pay more for their bus fares?  for those bus fans, they would definitely wan new operators... but to the ordinary passengers,they does not really care who operate the buses. as long as the buses come regularly and fares DOES NOT increase, they will be happy.

      for loyang package, LTA have say that all the proposal are quite similar (have similar weightage) and thus price is the deciding factor.. the GA issue, is due to GA wrong calculation of their cost..... 

      and GA have to face the consequences since they bid that particular amount.. 

       

      You are right. The whole purpose of moving to Govt Contract Model is to improve services. First round TT was picked up at 550m, some others were 20% lower.

      Second round SBS bid 545m, which I believe it is the reasonable price, because existing operator knows its own operating best. GAS 10% lower 497m which has been proven on a tight budget as you said, but wasn't too bad.

      Third round, both TT and GAS bid 570s, and also Woodlands is very close. All have good understanding of local operation. If they don't want to win, they did not have to attend. (Tower wasn't in Loyang bid I think?) Some bidders are quite aggressive but 480 should be losing money; or pushing very hard on BCs, or bring back clear plastic tube driver seats. Otherwise share buyers would not happy. LTA can select lowest but there should be someone paying back the social risks. 

      A shop cannot sell chicken rice 50cents if everyone else prices it 3 dollars. Surely he will reduce the quality; unless he decided not to payback the money borrowed from relatives.

  • carbikebus's Avatar
    20,592 posts since Nov '03
  • lemon1974's Avatar
    9,400 posts since Dec '04
    • Originally posted by okayla:

      You are right. The whole purpose of moving to Govt Contract Model is to improve services. First round TT was picked up at 550m, some others were 20% lower.

      Second round SBS bid 545m, which I believe it is the reasonable price, because existing operator knows its own operating best. GAS 10% lower 497m which has been proven on a tight budget as you said, but wasn't too bad.

      Third round, both TT and GAS bid 570s, and also Woodlands is very close. All have good understanding of local operation. If they don't want to win, they did not have to attend. (Tower wasn't in Loyang bid I think?) Some bidders are quite aggressive but 480 should be losing money; or pushing very hard on BCs, or bring back clear plastic tube driver seats. Otherwise share buyers would not happy. LTA can select lowest but there should be someone paying back the social risks. 

      A shop cannot sell chicken rice 50cents if everyone else prices it 3 dollars. Surely he will reduce the quality; unless he decided not to payback the money borrowed from relatives.

      u wont know how SBST calculate its cost..... by bidding at 480M does not mean it will lose money..... for the first 2 package, they were still discussing with LTA on the transition of existing service into BCM.. now that is settle (and thus they know the margin they have), they can have a lower bid this time round... they also have lower set up cost/recruitment cost (and currently they have enough BCs also)..

      further first two packages, the local operators know they are just bridemaids...

      and your chicken rice example is not entirely correct as compare to SBST case... the different between SBST/woodland transport is around 20% difference.... unless you are saying that SBST is bidding at 50% of Woodland transport price...

      so u can still see $2 chicken rice in singapore as compare to S2.50 OR S3.00.

  • array88's Avatar
    1,453 posts since May '14
    • Originally posted by dupdup77:

      Hi mr lemon1974, you did not get the facts correct. Busways is not the highest bidder as claimed. Woodlands transport is the highest at 583 million. Cheers. Thanks.

      Still, Busways is the second highest (just 2 million lower than Woodlands Transport), so close enough...

  • dupdup77's Avatar
    3,062 posts since Nov '13
    • Originally posted by array88:

      Still, Busways is the second highest (just 2 million lower than Woodlands Transport), so close enough...

      Hi mr array88, yes understood. 2nd highest. Not highest. Cheers. Thanks.

  • gekpohboy's Avatar
    2,180 posts since Mar '16
    • Originally posted by lemon1974:

      u wont know how SBST calculate its cost..... by bidding at 480M does not mean it will lose money..... for the first 2 package, they were still discussing with LTA on the transition of existing service into BCM.. now that is settle (and thus they know the margin they have), they can have a lower bid this time round... they also have lower set up cost/recruitment cost (and currently they have enough BCs also)..

      further first two packages, the local operators know they are just bridemaids...

      and your chicken rice example is not entirely correct as compare to SBST case... the different between SBST/woodland transport is around 20% difference.... unless you are saying that SBST is bidding at 50% of Woodland transport price...

      so u can still see $2 chicken rice in singapore as compare to S2.50 OR S3.00.

      Hi Mr lemon1974, yes, there are $2 chicken rice around. The one at Boon Lay MRT Station exit B sells chicken rice at $2. Cheers. Thanks.

    • Originally posted by okayla:

      You are right. The whole purpose of moving to Govt Contract Model is to improve services. First round TT was picked up at 550m, some others were 20% lower.

      Second round SBS bid 545m, which I believe it is the reasonable price, because existing operator knows its own operating best. GAS 10% lower 497m which has been proven on a tight budget as you said, but wasn't too bad.

      Third round, both TT and GAS bid 570s, and also Woodlands is very close. All have good understanding of local operation. If they don't want to win, they did not have to attend. (Tower wasn't in Loyang bid I think?) Some bidders are quite aggressive but 480 should be losing money; or pushing very hard on BCs, or bring back clear plastic tube driver seats. Otherwise share buyers would not happy. LTA can select lowest but there should be someone paying back the social risks. 

      A shop cannot sell chicken rice 50cents if everyone else prices it 3 dollars. Surely he will reduce the quality; unless he decided not to payback the money borrowed from relatives.

      Hi Mr okayla, not really. Service reliability has other programmes to take care of it. The BCM is mainly to optimise costs. Cheers. Thanks.

  • carbikebus's Avatar
    20,592 posts since Nov '03
    • Originally posted by gekpohboy:

      Hi Mr lemon1974, yes, there are $2 chicken rice around. The one at Boon Lay MRT Station exit B sells chicken rice at $2. Cheers. Thanks.

      Yes have,But the portion is enough for 10 years old kid.What you pay is what you get..

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