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Fares and "Huge deficit" under GCM "clearly not sustainable"

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  • sgbuses's Avatar
    2,355 posts since Nov '05
    • Something has got to give when every bus trip carries a minimum $0.55 subsidy (including feeder transfers). $4.10 card fare, here we come...

      http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/need-to-strike-balance-in-transport-cost-burden-khaw-boon-wan/3577594.html

      The Government is also topping up a “huge deficit” under the new Bus Contracting Model, which states that it is now responsible for buying and replacing buses.

      “We pay bus operators a fee to run the bus services. Although fare revenue goes to the Government, it is not enough to cover operating costs,” Mr Khaw said.

      ...

      As costs rise over the years, Mr Khaw said fares have not kept up and taxpayers have had to subsidise more and more of these operating costs.

      This is clearly not sustainable,” he said. “We must ensure that the fiscal burden does not become too excessive for taxpayers.”

      ...

      But “the PTC cannot always bring good news”, Mr Khaw cautioned, adding that there is also a possibility for an upward fare adjustment.

      “If they do, I hope commuters will be understanding."

  • carbikebus's Avatar
    20,294 posts since Nov '03
  • Sbs6750E's Avatar
    1,930 posts since May '15
    • This minister just do not care about the commuters lah. MRT breakdown he in his office looking at the sky only.

  • TPS Timothy Mok's Avatar
    1,146 posts since Aug '07
    • The bus fare can increase, like it or not. but for the convenience of people, it must be the 4th or 5th lowest in the world.

      We will still have to keep up with London's trend.

  • TIB868X's Avatar
    1,512 posts since Aug '11
    • Hard truth. Money will not come out of thin air now that the government has chosen to bear the financial risk. Standards will be raised, but someone must pay for it, and it won't be 100% gahmen. Minimum $3 fares sounds about right, to be coupled with optimized concession schemes.

       

      It is unfair and irresponsible to have a long wish list while not accepting the costs of such things.

      Edited by TIB868X 08 Mar `17, 5:28PM
  • sgbuses's Avatar
    2,355 posts since Nov '05
    • Originally posted by TIB868X:

      Hard truth. Money will not come out of thin air now that the government has chosen to bear the financial risk. Standards will be raised, but someone must pay for it, and it won't be 100% gahmen. Minimum $3 fares sounds about right, to be coupled with optimized concession schemes.

       

      It is unfair and irresponsible to have a long wish list while not accepting the costs of such things.

      Who caused this financial mess in the first place?

      And they are still queuing to badger LTA with their Christmas wish list...Look no further than next door.

      Edited by sgbuses 08 Mar `17, 6:27PM
  • gekpohboy's Avatar
    2,180 posts since Mar '16
    • Case study: London bus fare.

       

      Single trip - S$2.58

      Daily cap - S$7.74

      Weekly cap - S$36.45

  • dupdup77's Avatar
    3,048 posts since Nov '13
    • Originally posted by sgbuses:

      Who caused this financial mess in the first place?

      And they are still queuing to badger LTA with their Christmas wish list...Look no further than next door.

      Hi mr sgbuses, nobody asked them to convert to GCM in the first place. 

      Since it was their decision to use GCM and now that it is in place, will they still award the seletar bus package tender to other companies who are bidding so much more than Sbs transit? If the govt really does so, means they have no right to increase bus fares as the govt has the money to do so.

      When people badger LTA for Christmas wish list of new bus services, LTA did not really give in. It was mainly the new estates and new roads without any services or less services which got the new bus services. This was again part of the BSEP announced by govt after the 2011 election. Initially is to have 40 new bus services then increase to 80. What the MP at various estates could do was just to fight for the allocation for their residents. That's all. They are not badgering LTA for anything extra. They are only asking for their fair share of the 80 services. Cheers. Thanks.

      Edited by dupdup77 08 Mar `17, 7:25PM
  • gekpohboy's Avatar
    2,180 posts since Mar '16
    • Currently,

       

      Maximum bus fare - S$2.67

      Maximum per day - S$5.34

      Maximum per week - S$37.38

       

      That's if you take express bus all the time.

      As you can see, it's about the same as the fares at London.

      So, maybe a simple solution is to charge express fares for all bus services.

      Problem solved.

      Edited by gekpohboy 08 Mar `17, 7:29PM
    • 30% increase in bus fare, anyone?

       

      As long as ours is not the most expensive in the world, for the same distance travelled, I'm okay.

      Edited by gekpohboy 08 Mar `17, 7:28PM
    • Originally posted by dupdup77:

      Hi mr sgbuses, nobody asked them to convert to GCM in the first place. 

      Since it was their decision to use GCM and now that it is in place, will they still award the seletar bus package tender to other companies who are bidding so much more than Sbs transit? If the govt really does so, means they have no right to increase bus fares as the govt has the money to do so.

      When people badger LTA for Christmas wish list of new bus services, LTA did not really give in. It was mainly the new estates and new roads without any services or less services which got the new bus services. This was again part of the BSEP announced by govt after the 2011 election. Initially is to have 40 new bus services then increase to 80. What the MP at various estates could do was just to fight for the allocation for their residents. That's all. They are not badgering LTA for anything extra. They are only asking for their fair share of the 80 services. Cheers. Thanks.

      70% voted for this.

  • TIB868X's Avatar
    1,512 posts since Aug '11
    • Originally posted by dupdup77:

      Hi mr sgbuses, nobody asked them to convert to GCM in the first place. 

      Since it was their decision to use GCM and now that it is in place, will they still award the seletar bus package tender to other companies who are bidding so much more than Sbs transit? If the govt really does so, means they have no right to increase bus fares as the govt has the money to do so.

      When people badger LTA for Christmas wish list of new bus services, LTA did not really give in. It was mainly the new estates and new roads without any services or less services which got the new bus services. This was again part of the BSEP announced by govt after the 2011 election. Initially is to have 40 new bus services then increase to 80. What the MP at various estates could do was just to fight for the allocation for their residents. That's all. They are not badgering LTA for anything extra. They are only asking for their fair share of the 80 services. Cheers. Thanks.

      No need to overthink. I am sure you will agree the previous model was even more unsustainable. Higher standards = higher costs = higher fares. You cannot have your cake and eat it. Hard truths.

       

      And perhaps the additional costs in awarding to a tender that is not the lowest may be offset by the fact that bidder will likely be less problematic in the future. Look no further than what has happened.

  • gekpohboy's Avatar
    2,180 posts since Mar '16
  • sgbuses's Avatar
    2,355 posts since Nov '05
    • Originally posted by dupdup77:

      When people badger LTA for Christmas wish list of new bus services, LTA did not really give in. It was mainly the new estates and new roads without any services or less services which got the new bus services. This was again part of the BSEP announced by govt after the 2011 election. Initially is to have 40 new bus services then increase to 80. What the MP at various estates could do was just to fight for the allocation for their residents. That's all. They are not badgering LTA for anything extra. They are only asking for their fair share of the 80 services. Cheers. Thanks.

      They do, they had to ask the right people. Even then, the bus network is still largely a patchwork of new routes. A network revamp (and rationalization) is long overdue to achieve greater efficiency, but that clearly hasn't happened (and isn't happening).

      And it is not limited to bus routes:

      http://sgforums.com/forums/1279/topics/493613#post_11217822

      http://sgforums.com/forums/1279/topics/486449?page=68#post_11215946

  • gekpohboy's Avatar
    2,180 posts since Mar '16
    • Otherwise, another solution is to cut cost, by removing bus routes.

      or make them run during peak hours only.

  • sgbuses's Avatar
    2,355 posts since Nov '05
    • Originally posted by TIB868X:

      No need to overthink. I am sure you will agree the previous model was even more unsustainable. Higher standards = higher costs = higher fares. You cannot have your cake and eat it. Hard truths.

       

      And perhaps the additional costs in awarding to a tender that is not the lowest may be offset by the fact that bidder will likely be less problematic in the future. Look no further than what has happened.

      Someone in the industry once told me this: "Singaporeans pay 60 cent bus fare, but expect to receive SIA first class Solitaire PPS service. How?"

      I know it might score bonus points for an operator bidding for the next tender, but I am not willing to pay 10 cents extra per trip so as to smell some designer aroma on the bus. This is public transport.

      Edited by sgbuses 08 Mar `17, 7:54PM
  • gekpohboy's Avatar
    2,180 posts since Mar '16
    • Or introduce dynamic fares. Then those cannot afford one, take during after hours lor…

  • sgbuses's Avatar
    2,355 posts since Nov '05
    • Originally posted by gekpohboy:

      Or introduce dynamic fares. Then those cannot afford one, take during after hours lor…

      This is one change I am fully expecting. Peak and non-peak travel mode is already programmed into the card readers. It's already done by TT Sydney.

  • dupdup77's Avatar
    3,048 posts since Nov '13
    • Originally posted by gekpohboy:

      70% voted for this.

      Hi mr gekpohboy, please grow up. It is good to argue but let's do it with some sort of reasons. Cheers. Thanks.

    • Originally posted by gekpohboy:

      Or introduce dynamic fares. Then those cannot afford one, take during after hours lor…

      Hi mr gekpohboy, this seems a possible way but then for me, I will not advocate such a reason. We need to think for the poor in Singapore. Buses is a form of transport that you see all sorts of people take. We cannot ostracize and divide time slots into those who can afford it and those who cannot. Cheers. Thanks. 

  • SBS3004X's Avatar
    3,491 posts since Jan '14
    • Originally posted by gekpohboy:

      Or introduce dynamic fares. Then those cannot afford one, take during after hours lor…

      LTA should have kept the fares the same instead of decreasing and getting into this mess. If fares are kept the same now, then no need massive fare increase in future.

  • SMB145B's Avatar
    2,252 posts since Dec '12
    • Originally posted by carbikebus:

      This Minister if open mouth only talk about $ $ $ nothing else..

      Actually got many more of these. This khaw bu one really jialat.

    • Originally posted by sgbuses:

      This is one change I am fully expecting. Peak and non-peak travel mode is already programmed into the card readers. It's already done by TT Sydney.

      If this ever comes into reality, maybe $13 bus fare during peak? Expensive bus rides, long waiting time, bus going MIA? Why are drivers leaving their 120k cars for below par transport?

  • iveco's Avatar
    17,089 posts since Mar '04
    • Originally posted by SMB145B:

      Actually got many more of these. This khaw bu one really jialat.

      Our transport ministers all CMI lah. First, Mah Bow Tan single-handedly destroyed Tibs Holdings in 1999 with the NEL Tender going to Delgro (SBS). Then Yeo Cheow Tong failed to improve the bus service network in his own ward. Rot in our train system set in during the later years of Raymond Lim's tenure, reaching its peak in 2015 when Lui Tuck Yew was helming the Transport portfolio.

      If our cabinet ministers took one zero off their annual salary we could be seeing better and more affordable bus services. Maybe even $8 heart bypass surgeries for all.

      But 70% voted to retain this lot in power, as Gekpohboy says. Hope that figure drops to 45% in 2020.

    • Originally posted by gekpohboy:

      More buses, higher fares.

      Whatever happened to cheaper, better and faster? 

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