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Volvo B9TL Wrights (Part 4)

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  • carbikebus's Avatar
    19,312 posts since Nov '03
    • Originally posted by SG5064X:

      I think B9TL suit short trunk and feeder and E500 & A95 suits Long trunk

      Its depending on how well finetuning of the buses..If a Citaro with a good acceleration also suits for short feeder svc..

  • bus555's Avatar
    10,048 posts since Dec '06
  • vicamour's Avatar
    1,475 posts since Jan '09
    • Originally posted by SG5064X:

      I think B9TL suit short trunk and feeder and E500 & A95 suits Long trunk

      It will be good if LTA bring in the 12.8m tri-door Volvo B8TL double deckers, if Volvo produces them in future. 

    • Originally posted by randomguy10:

      If that really happens, I am sorry to say that LTA and this whole BCM would have been such a disappointment. If they were so against bendys in the first place, they should have come up with a better solution or else just left it alone and carry on with purchasing the MAN A24s exclusively for feeders. When the 3 door DD materialised, I really taught LTA was making good progress and that with a successful trial, it will be a good alternative candidate to the bendy. The thing with feeders is not just capacity alone but a solution to allow quick boarding and alighting to reduce dwell times. 

      If LTA were to just sub 2-door DDs for retiring bendys on feeders just so that there will be more space on the roads for a few more rich people to drive exotic cars, that's just a failure. If the 3 door DD trial were not ready yet, they should have considered giving the old bendys a 1 year extension till the trial is settled then decide. Put in those 2door DD now, Next time want 3door DD also not many old buses to replace. 

       

      The problem of bendies is not just on the roads outside but also within bus interchanges and depots. Ever since many bendies are scrapped and replaced by more single and double deckers, bus operators are able to add more buses to improve frequencies of current services and have more buses to introduce more new bus services. 

      Of course LTA should speed up the trials for the tri-door double decker and introduce a fleet as soon as possible for feeder services. 

  • TIB 585L's Avatar
    8,972 posts since Apr '11
    • Like dat can retire those A24 early since no point keeping them when DD is replacing all of them. 40 bendies only, might as well change it to DD since they have too much DD to give. So all feeders use DD whether got demand or not

  • SMB128B's Avatar
    4,843 posts since May '11
    • Like that, svcs like 858 how? 

      Only talk so much about scrap bendies here scrap bendies there... Without even a single consideration about the current reality we live in now. 

      I'm not saying bendies are the ideal standard for Singapore... But seriously la. What harm will 40 buses even do to SG... Dont be overboard hor!

  • A22 fan's Avatar
    20 posts since Jul '17
    • The bendies are still very useful in cck, woodlands and yishun feeders..plus 858 too. Some people are too biased here. A24s are powerful n less noise. Smooth running too.

  • Path Light's Avatar
    1,492 posts since Feb '15
  • TIB 585L's Avatar
    8,972 posts since Apr '11
    • Tell that to LTA lor who seemed so happy to phase out the Habits little by little with only DD as replacement.

  • randomguy10's Avatar
    215 posts since Dec '13
    • Actually those feeder services will always perform better with the A24s as opposed to DDs. And even more so when newer MRT stations crop up and people travel shorter distances on feeder service buses, with people ever more reluctant to go up. DDs are perfect for trunk routes.

      I just hope LTA does not take one whole loop to find out they were a fool by putting DDs to swap bendys on feeders now and adding buses when they realise that DDs arent enough because the upper deck is empty and eventually realising that a bendy bus that is 6m longer than a normal SD/DD saved more space than 2 SD/DD which is 6m more space than a bendy bus. I would have suggested 13.8m SD 100% low floor 3 Door variants (which is shorter than a bendy and may see better loading patterns than a 12m SD/DD) that are common in Europe but Im not sure if these buses can navigate our narrow roads. SBST's 997 didnt do that well i believe.

      Sometimes I really wonder if those LTA decision makers know what they are doing and if they know the ground well enough.

      On a side note, I secretly do hope that LTA will consider getting some SG plated A24s once all the O405Gs are gone. ATM, DDs are more needed because the current number of bendys even with those going to retire in 2017 removed, SMRT has surplus to run bendys on feeders. Around 60, with the existing 40 will definitely be good to supplement feeders in Yishun, Woodlands, CCK, Airport Services, Service 105 and maybe even 123's extended route.

  • Path Light's Avatar
    1,492 posts since Feb '15
  • carbikebus's Avatar
    19,312 posts since Nov '03
    • Originally posted by vicamour:

      The problem of bendies is not just on the roads outside but also within bus interchanges and depots. Ever since many bendies are scrapped and replaced by more single and double deckers, bus operators are able to add more buses to improve frequencies of current services and have more buses to introduce more new bus services. 

      Of course LTA should speed up the trials for the tri-door double decker and introduce a fleet as soon as possible for feeder services. 

      Understand your agony,But again what is the solution for feeders that aren't suitable for 12.8m DD?What about Airport svc?Forever spammed with SDs until the terminal jam with buses?LTA can set a rule that bendy buses strictly use for feeders & airport svc not like SMRT gung-ho style of deployment..Those who breached the regulations should be given penalty.

    • Originally posted by Path Light:

      LTA should buy 60 more MAN A24 buses and 40 more MAN A22 buses

      Should buy 200 bendies for all operators to use for feeders and airport svc.

      MAN A22 for what?Unless STK design a custom 12.3m three doors one.

    • Originally posted by randomguy10:

      Actually those feeder services will always perform better with the A24s as opposed to DDs. And even more so when newer MRT stations crop up and people travel shorter distances on feeder service buses, with people ever more reluctant to go up. DDs are perfect for trunk routes.

      I just hope LTA does not take one whole loop to find out they were a fool by putting DDs to swap bendys on feeders now and adding buses when they realise that DDs arent enough because the upper deck is empty and eventually realising that a bendy bus that is 6m longer than a normal SD/DD saved more space than 2 SD/DD which is 6m more space than a bendy bus. I would have suggested 13.8m SD 100% low floor 3 Door variants (which is shorter than a bendy and may see better loading patterns than a 12m SD/DD) that are common in Europe but Im not sure if these buses can navigate our narrow roads. SBST's 997 didnt do that well i believe.

      Sometimes I really wonder if those LTA decision makers know what they are doing and if they know the ground well enough.

      On a side note, I secretly do hope that LTA will consider getting some SG plated A24s once all the O405Gs are gone. ATM, DDs are more needed because the current number of bendys even with those going to retire in 2017 removed, SMRT has surplus to run bendys on feeders. Around 60, with the existing 40 will definitely be good to supplement feeders in Yishun, Woodlands, CCK, Airport Services, Service 105 and maybe even 123's extended route.

      Long distance feeders like 240,285 & 334 plus intratowns/townlink that are quite long distance like 265,268,359,911,912,913 can use DDs

  • TIB 585L's Avatar
    8,972 posts since Apr '11
    • 913 is not long distance. it bypass 2 MRTs and people only take for at most 5 stops maximum wich is not long as opposed to svc like 334 and 912 where people take for more than 10 stops. Plus 913 route east side parallels with 5 others including 964 at Ave 6. All other svc can use DD coz they bypass roads only one svc pass

  • Path Light's Avatar
    1,492 posts since Feb '15
    • Originally posted by carbikebus:

      Should buy 200 bendies for all operators to use for feeders and airport svc.

      MAN A22 for what?Unless STK design a custom 12.3m three doors one.

      200 bendies? LTA should buy more MAN A24s (The ones which start with SG)

  • SMB128B's Avatar
    4,843 posts since May '11
    • Originally posted by TIB 585L:

      913 is not long distance. it bypass 2 MRTs and people only take for at most 5 stops maximum wich is not long as opposed to svc like 334 and 912 where people take for more than 10 stops. Plus 913 route east side parallels with 5 others including 964 at Ave 6. All other svc can use DD coz they bypass roads only one svc pass

      Fully agreed. Putting DDs on 913 is just asking for disaster to unfold. 

  • carbikebus's Avatar
    19,312 posts since Nov '03
  • vicamour's Avatar
    1,475 posts since Jan '09
    • Originally posted by carbikebus:

      Understand your agony,But again what is the solution for feeders that aren't suitable for 12.8m DD?What about Airport svc?Forever spammed with SDs until the terminal jam with buses?LTA can set a rule that bendy buses strictly use for feeders & airport svc not like SMRT gung-ho style of deployment..Those who breached the regulations should be given penalty.

      Even now 12.8m double deckers are not really introduced, we already see many feeders improving the frequencies with more buses or introduced new services to supplement the loads of the high demand services and yet provide more links with these new services. People are still demanding better frequencies for feeders and more buses are needed.

      I stated before that LTA can introduce a new service to supplement and relieve the loads of 858, just like how 972 was introduced to help 190. This new service can start from Woodlands and ply the same route as 858 and then ply along Gambas Ave, Sembawang Rd, before proceeding to SLE and continue the same route as 858 to the airport. It can provide a faster and more direct link for Woodlands residents to the airport without bypassing Sembawang and Yishun Estates, and also provides a link to Springleaf area for them.

      858 cannot forever rely on bendies as there are other better solutions and there might be possibilities that new services have to be introduced for more people to the airport. So these bendies are not feasible in the airport roads in the long term, since firstly there are limited spaces to park these buses in the airport and secondly, these buses are beginning to block the way of other buses and delaying their schedules, since most of the roads are single lanes. And also bus stops like T3 ones where 858 berth is shifted in the middle and block the other buses at the last berth.

      I just encountered a GA 36 BC who had to horn repeatedly at the bendy in front in T3 as he was running late for the schedule. But the bendy didn't move. In the end, the GA BC has to reverse and squeeze it's way out. Imagine how dangerous for the big bus to reverse in such narrow roads. It could have hit another vehicle behind or mount kerb. 

       

  • SMB145B's Avatar
    2,174 posts since Dec '12
    • Originally posted by SMB128B:

      Like that, svcs like 858 how? 

      Only talk so much about scrap bendies here scrap bendies there... Without even a single consideration about the current reality we live in now. 

      I'm not saying bendies are the ideal standard for Singapore... But seriously la. What harm will 40 buses even do to SG... Dont be overboard hor!

      ask LTA to divert all airport svcs to departure hall or arriving hall instead. anyway, 27, 36 and 858 needs restructuring to their routes. 36 doing infinity loops, 858 is way too long and 27 is a rojak.

  • vicamour's Avatar
    1,475 posts since Jan '09
    • Originally posted by SMB128B:

      Like that, svcs like 858 how? 

      Only talk so much about scrap bendies here scrap bendies there... Without even a single consideration about the current reality we live in now. 

      I'm not saying bendies are the ideal standard for Singapore... But seriously la. What harm will 40 buses even do to SG... Dont be overboard hor!

      Then tell me what's the use of having 40 bendies over a fleet of over 4,000 buses. 

      You have to find spaces to park them. The space can accommodate 80 12m buses instead of just 40 buses. 40 more buses I can introduce 2 more new services. 

      Then you have to find parts just for these 40 bendies. Allocate special technicians to know how to repair these buses and add more costs to maintain them. Then increase fares by 10 cents to maintain these buses and their expensive parts, you want to pay?

       The reality is that now many places with lesser or no bendies have better and improving bus service standards. 

      Edited by vicamour 18 Jul `17, 9:31PM
  • SMB128B's Avatar
    4,843 posts since May '11
    • Originally posted by vicamour:

      Then tell me what's the use of having 40 bendies over a fleet of over 4,000 buses. 

      You have to find spaces to park them. The space can accommodate 80 12m buses instead of just 40 buses. 40 more buses I can introduce 2 more new services. 

      Then you have to find parts just for these 40 bendies. Allocate special technicians to know how to repair these buses and add more costs to maintain them. Then increase fares by 10 cents to maintain these buses and their expensive parts, you want to pay?

       

      Idk... 10 buses for 858 perhaps? Or at least 5? Big diff yknow. 

      I like the double standards you have here... On one hand you seem to have an issue w it serving most of the routes, such as trunks to the city. On the other hand now you question its effectiveness to serve the WHOLE network??

      Have you NOT heard of perm?

      Then what do YOU suggest for 858? Clearly rigids nonstop has proven to be an utter failure, and CAAS isn't looking to build a DD-friendly ter anytime soon. Look, its not that I want bendies just coz it looks good or whatever. It's coz they ARE essential to some of the svcs. 

      The 40 A24s have been in service for q a while. Never have fare increments even happen when they are around, in fact fares dropped. Sure there is one announced, but you are clearly over exaggerating the situation. 

  • SMB145B's Avatar
    2,174 posts since Dec '12
    • Originally posted by vicamour:

      Then tell me what's the use of having 40 bendies over a fleet of over 4,000 buses. 

      You have to find spaces to park them. The space can accommodate 80 12m buses instead of just 40 buses. 40 more buses I can introduce 2 more new services. 

      Then you have to find parts just for these 40 bendies. Allocate special technicians to know how to repair these buses and add more costs to maintain them. Then increase fares by 10 cents to maintain these buses and their expensive parts, you want to pay?

       The reality is that now many places with lesser or no bendies have better and improving bus service standards. 

      so any ideas for 27, 36 and 858, Boss?

      do you want 858C and 858D as well?

      go on deploying 20 Wrights on 858 lor.

  • vicamour's Avatar
    1,475 posts since Jan '09
    •  

      Idk... 10 buses for 858 perhaps? Or at least 5? Big diff yknow. 

      I like the double standards you have here... On one hand you seem to have an issue w it serving most of the routes, such as trunks to the city. On the other hand now you question its effectiveness to serve the WHOLE network??

      Have you NOT heard of perm?

      Then what do YOU suggest for 858? Clearly rigids nonstop has proven to be an utter failure, and CAAS isn't looking to build a DD-friendly ter anytime soon. Look, its not that I want bendies just coz it looks good or whatever. It's coz they ARE essential to some of the svcs. 

      The 40 A24s have been in service for q a while. Never have fare increments even happen when they are around, in fact fares dropped. Sure there is one announced, but you are clearly over exaggerating the situation. 

      FYI, I have not been agreeing with bendies as the whole system in my past posts because it is going to be unsustainable in the long run because Singapore population keeps increasing. Even for feeders. It's a matter of time feeder services are going to be as congested as those trunk services in the city, as long as people are demanding better frequencies and LTA introducing new bus services. Just observe how congested Yishun interchange with bendies and much less congested it is now, and with more bus services and improved frequencies for the current services. 

      Please refer to my post above to improve 858. Bendies aren't the only solution to manage the loads.

      Do you know why the fares dropped? Because the govt is throwing money to subsidize the bus fares for the moment. It's not like the govt is going to subsidize forever. These 40 bendies are now under SMRT and not LTA. Doesn't it occurred to you that in the past, SMRT is always the first to apply bus fare hikes?

      You should know the term economics of scale. Why should LTA maintaining its whole fleet of 12m easily and more cost effectively,  but have to pay more to maintain a smaller special fleet at higher costs and absorbing these costs? History has tell you maintaining small fleets proves costly and these small special fleets are normally neglected and left to rot, like Dennis Lances, Darts, Tridents, Hinos, CAC Hispanic O405s,  Nissan UDs, just to name a few.

      And LTA is standardising the whole fleet of 4,00 0 odd buses to make  procurement, maintenance, and switching between operators easier and more efficient and flexible in the future. Why do you want to make their jobs harder just for these few buses?

      Edited by vicamour 18 Jul `17, 10:16PM
    • Originally posted by SMB145B:

      so any ideas for 27, 36 and 858, Boss?

      do you want 858C and 858D as well?

      go on deploying 20 Wrights on 858 lor.

      So far 36 is quite manageable. Just that GA needs to add more evening trips for 36B.

      The problem of 858 is from Woodlands to Airport. A parallel service that I have suggested would help to relieve the loads while adding new links. No need to introduce double deckers unless CAAS and LTA wants to build a DD-friendly bus terminal. 

      27 should now just use a full fleet of low entry buses instead of low floor buses. Other than that, it's should be pretty manageable with the current frequencies. Still waiting for the rumored 137. Probably it can help to relieve 27 loads in future. 

      Edited by vicamour 18 Jul `17, 10:14PM
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