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Bus Contracting Model (Part 3)

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  • SG1131L's Avatar
    195 posts since Oct '17
  • carbikebus's Avatar
    21,535 posts since Nov '03
    • Just that TT operate two CDS service doesn't mean its a sign for them to stay long,1 contract to sustain cost operation for 4-5 years is a big challenge leh..Even if SBST lose another 3 packages doesn't mean they're out,they still operate MRT and other businesses.Cannot be more mercy meh?Then influential shareholders should buy stakes from these two foreign operators lor.

  • SG1131L's Avatar
    195 posts since Oct '17
    • Originally posted by dupdup77:

      Hi mr SG1131L, BCM is a big wayang. Just like the bus drivers are told to purposely slow down by the operators if there is a similar bus service no in front just to maintain headway. In the end, the bus behind purposely travels so slow intentionally and for the next few minutes, there are no passengers waiting to board it as well. A big farcical wayang without any objectives. Wayang for the sake of wayang. Only disadvantage is people on board gets delayed for another few minutes to destinations. Cheers. Thanks.

      Bus slowing down is to ensure that buses run according to schedule and at the prescribed frequency, so that they are reliable.

      BCM is about getting the best people to manage bus services.

      In future, buses may become driverless, but we still need people to maintain the equipment and communicate with customers.

      More importantly, we need BCM to match our bus services at market rate, so that it is comparable to other cities like London, New York and Australia.

      We need competition to ensure that we always get the best quality products and services.

      From the customer perspective, this may not seem much because everything is business as usual, and nothing much changes except for the visuals and addition of new bus services.

      But for Singapore to continue to have frequent and reliable public transport, competition is key. For buses, we have BCM. For trains, we have NRFF (New Rail Financing Framework). All these is to ensure that Singapore continues to have good quality public transport and that the economy continues to thrive forever and ever.

      Edited by SG1131L 25 Feb `18, 3:38PM
    • Originally posted by Gus.chong:

      To me, one of the influential factors in the present results seems to be the need for 160 and 170 to remain status quo...otherwise the administrative side in JB may be complicated.

      On the administrative side, the solution is to re-register the paperwork, from the incumbents to LTA.

      Though complicated, it’s only a one-off process, which should not restrict the BCM contracts of concern to the incumbents whose cross boarder bus routes are in there.

      Anyway, if the paperwork is going to take a long time, the Bukit Merah package would not be the first negotiated contract to be tendered out, but instead implemented only a few years later to allow time for the paperwork to be done.

      But since the Bukit Merah bus package can commence this year, I would assume that the paperwork should be done by then, if not already done.

      So, no, I don’t think there is a need for the cross boarder bus routes to remain with the incumbent.

      Edited by SG1131L 25 Feb `18, 3:38PM
  • ZzCrushX's Avatar
    335 posts since Apr '13
  • SG1131L's Avatar
    195 posts since Oct '17
  • iveco's Avatar
    17,268 posts since Mar '04
    • BCM system works best in major cities with a high population density, most notably capital cities. Technically, it could be implemented without too much difficulty in the Klang Valley.

      London and Perth have a long history of BCM being practised. The authorities there were smarter as they realised that allowing individual operators legal ownership of the means of production wasn't sustainable in the long run. As we have seen, IntraKota and Cityliner in Kuala Lumpur were having severe financial woes and had to seek government intervention, which prompted the restructuring of the whole public transit network in the Klang Valley.

      That being said, having a monopoly operator breeds complacency in the long run, and here is where competitive tendering comes in. Ideally, no single contractor should control more than 50% of the market, because they don't deserve to. Transperth's "50% of total service mileage" rule exists for a good reason. 

      On that note, SBST having bagged Seletar and Bukit Merah should therefore be ruled ineligible to defend Hougang.

      Edited by iveco 24 Feb `18, 12:08AM
  • SG1131L's Avatar
    195 posts since Oct '17
    • The Klang Valley case can be read here.

      The definition of monopoly is to be the only company in the market, with no competitor.

      If we adhere to this definition, the maximum a company can have is t-1 contracts, where t is the total number of contracts.

      I understand the concern that SBS Transit could end up winning all the contracts, but rest assured, it won’t happen, because this would go against the objective of having a contestable public bus industry, which the government has been saying.

      At the minimum, there would be 2 companies, to ensure that no company becomes the monopoly.

      If a company has t-1 contracts, it will definitely be barred from getting the remaining 1 contract. This was what happened in 2000, when SMRT was barred from getting the North East Line as the government wanted competition in the rail industry.

      Edited by SG1131L 25 Feb `18, 3:38PM
  • iveco's Avatar
    17,268 posts since Mar '04
    • Originally posted by SG1131L:

      If a company has t-1 contracts, it will definitely be barred from getting the remaining 1 contract. This was what happened in 2000, when SMRT was barred from getting the North East Line as the government wanted competition in the rail industry.

      And we all saw how Tibs Holdings got screwed badly by that. Railways are more suited as a natural monopoly on the whole.

  • carbikebus's Avatar
    21,535 posts since Nov '03
    • Originally posted by SG1131L:

      The Klang Valley case can be read here.

      The definition of monopoly is to be the only company in the market, with no competitor.

      If we adhere to this definition, the maximum a company can have is t-1 contracts, where t is the total number of contracts.

      I understand the concern that SBS Transit could end up winning all the contracts, but rest assured, it won’t happen, because this would go against the objective of having a contestable public bus industry, which the government has been saying.

      At the minimum, there would be 2 companies, to ensure that no company becomes the monopoly.

      If a company has t-1 contracts, it will definitely be barred from getting the remaining 1 contract. This was what happened in 2000, when SMRT was barred from getting the North East Line as the government wanted competition in the rail industry.

      In Singapore,its all about the pioneers and shareholders sake..All about giving face.

      I don't see SBST has the quality againts other operators just that it's like a big brother and it's senior among those 3 operators and indirectly to cover the loss of Jurong East,Portion of Clementi,Pasir Ris and Punggol svc.Maybe the real competition starts from 2020 onwards,and 2021 and 2023 got a few back to back packages to be bidding for.

  • SG1131L's Avatar
    195 posts since Oct '17
    • Originally posted by carbikebus:

      In Singapore,its all about the pioneers and shareholders sake..All about giving face.

      I don't see SBST has the quality againts other operators just that it's like a big brother and it's senior among those 3 operators and indirectly to cover the loss of Jurong East,Portion of Clementi,Pasir Ris and Punggol svc.Maybe the real competition starts from 2020 onwards,and 2021 and 2023 got a few back to back packages to be bidding for.

      敬老尊贤 does not apply to corporate decisions.

      Singapore 专注于 integrity. It does not allow anyone to award contracts to 自己人, or allow anyone to 靠关系 get contract. Otherwise, this constitutes to corruption.

      SBS Transit is not related to the government. Neither is SMRT. One is private limited, while the other is corporation.

      Tower Transit and Go Ahead, on the other hand, are private limited.

      The decision to award contracts is a fair and open one.

      “All tender submissions were evaluated based on the same set of criteria through a two-envelope process which looked at both quality and price factors. With greater weightage given to the quality proposals, the price envelopes were only opened after the quality evaluation was completed. This two-envelope process ensures that LTA gets the best-value-for-money proposal without compromising on quality.”

      Edited by SG1131L 25 Feb `18, 3:38PM
  • carbikebus's Avatar
    21,535 posts since Nov '03
    • Originally posted by SG1131L:

      敬老尊贤 does not apply to corporate decisions.

      Singapore 专注于 integrity. It does not anyone to award contracts to 自己人, or allow anyone to 靠关系 get contract. Otherwise, this constitutes to corruption.

      SBS Transit is not related to the government. Neither does SMRT. One is private limited, while the other is corporation. Tower Transit and Go Ahead, on the other hand, are private limited.

      The decision to award contracts is a fair and open one.

      “All tender submissions were evaluated based on the same set of criteria through a two-envelope process which looked at both quality and price factors. With greater weightage given to the quality proposals, the price envelopes were only opened after the quality evaluation was completed. This two-envelope process ensures that LTA gets the best-value-for-money proposal without compromising on quality.”

      Haha, Whatever you say I still don't believe it's a fair one overall.This is Singapore by the way not some European nor Australia country

  • iveco's Avatar
    17,268 posts since Mar '04
    • SBST and SMRT both belong to Ho Jinx leh. SG1131L you brainwashed is it? No wonder Amos Yee said we are a totalitarian state. He can't be wrong about that.

    • Originally posted by carbikebus:

      In Singapore,its all about the pioneers and shareholders sake..All about giving face.

      I don't see SBST has the quality againts other operators just that it's like a big brother and it's senior among those 3 operators and indirectly to cover the loss of Jurong East,Portion of Clementi,Pasir Ris and Punggol svc.Maybe the real competition starts from 2020 onwards,and 2021 and 2023 got a few back to back packages to be bidding for.

      SBST lost out on Jurong East, Pasir Ris and Punggol but got part of Yishun and retained most of Ang Mo Kio and Redhill.

      SMRT lost Bukit Batok and part of Yishun. Hope they get something back or retain some of their existing contracts.

      LTA farming out all the SMRT contracts first. Clementi and Bishan leave till really late. Wonder if they have hidden motives for that. 2023 got 5 contracts all up for bidding at the same time.

      Edited by iveco 25 Feb `18, 7:29AM
  • carbikebus's Avatar
    21,535 posts since Nov '03
    • Originally posted by iveco:

      SBST lost out on Jurong East, Pasir Ris and Punggol but got part of Yishun and retained most of Ang Mo Kio and Redhill.

      SMRT lost Bukit Batok and part of Yishun. Hope they get something back or retain some of their existing contracts.

      LTA farming out all the SMRT contracts first. Clementi and Bishan leave till really late. Wonder if they have hidden motives for that. 2023 got 5 contracts all up for bidding at the same time.

      2021 we got Hougang-Sengkang,Bulim and Loyang.2023 Bedok,CCK-BPJ,Woodlands,Seletar and Bt Merah.

      Edited by carbikebus 25 Feb `18, 7:57AM
    • 2020 If won by SMRT,then both TTS & GAS will be in deep shit...You will see many Singaporean BCs will left for good,most of them reluctant to join SBST and SMRT.

  • wsy1234's Avatar
    1,677 posts since Aug '07
    • I think Maybe LTA has plan for SMRT to run the train business only. I think one of the new contract will be goto TT or GAS. 

  • SMB128B's Avatar
    5,066 posts since May '11
    • LTA is clearly biased towards SBST.. and it's not like they run Bukit Merah v well either. 

      Case in point, their all-day >20 min freq for svc 5. And their erratic, extremely unreliable freq for svcs like 16 and 57.

  • dupdup77's Avatar
    3,090 posts since Nov '13
    • Originally posted by iveco:

      SBST and SMRT both belong to Ho Jinx leh. SG1131L you brainwashed is it? No wonder Amos Yee said we are a totalitarian state. He can't be wrong about that.

      Hi mr iveco, try your very best to keep politics out of bus forums. Cheers. Thanks.

  • carbikebus's Avatar
    21,535 posts since Nov '03
    • Originally posted by SMB128B:

      LTA is clearly biased towards SBST.. and it's not like they run Bukit Merah v well either. 

      Case in point, their all-day >20 min freq for svc 5. And their erratic, extremely unreliable freq for svcs like 16 and 57.

      Biased?If biased they won't award Seletar or Bt Merah to them bro.They only care for the cross-border SVC only else you will see either one of the three operators get it.

  • dupdup77's Avatar
    3,090 posts since Nov '13
    • Originally posted by SMB128B:

      LTA is clearly biased towards SBST.. and it's not like they run Bukit Merah v well either. 

      Case in point, their all-day >20 min freq for svc 5. And their erratic, extremely unreliable freq for svcs like 16 and 57.

      Hi mr SMB128B, please be clear.

      6.30-8.30am 6-14 min

      8.31am-4.59pm 7-17 min

      5pm -7pm 12-14 min

      After 7pm 12-18 min

      nowhere can a trunk service has a > 20 min frequency. 

      Any bus services that is subjective to traffic conditions cannot be counted as > 20 min if affected along the way. This goes for other long trunk services.

      Please take note. If you dislike one operator, please do not bear grudges when commenting.

      Cheers. Thanks. 

  • carbikebus's Avatar
    21,535 posts since Nov '03
    • Originally posted by wsy1234:

      I think Maybe LTA has plan for SMRT to run the train business only. I think one of the new contract will be goto TT or GAS. 

      I think SMRT buses will still exist but in a small group just like TTS & GAS.Maybe they only win Bedok,Clementi and Woodlands only.TTS might lose Bulim but gain SBW-YIS,Loyang & CCK-BPJ and GAS will lose Loyang but win Bulim,Serangoon-Eunos and Bishan-TPY.Maybe one more new package that is Punggol will be added and awarded to SBST beside secure Seletar,Bt Merah,Tampines,Hougang-Sengkang,Jurong West.

  • SG1131L's Avatar
    195 posts since Oct '17
    • erm, have you all ever O level English situational writing before? When making decision, it’s always comparing factors to see which option is the best.

      In this case, it just happens that SBS Transit’s proposals were the best for Seletar and Bukit Merah.

      Rest assured, I don’t think they are really that balonglong. Not as if they fast game, in fact this tender took very long to process. It was a one time good one and everything was done until swee swee.

      Edited by SG1131L 25 Feb `18, 3:45PM
  • carbikebus's Avatar
    21,535 posts since Nov '03
    • Originally posted by SG1131L:

      erm, have you all ever O level English situational writing before? When making decision, it’s always comparing factors to see which option is the best.

      In this case, it just happens that SBS Transit’s proposals were the best for Seletar and Bukit Merah.

      Rest assured, I don’t think they are really that balonglong. Not as if they fast game, in fact this tender took very long to process. It was a one time good one and everything was done until swee swee.

      I know that you're pro-SBST but again Bt Merah concern is the two cross-border SVC and nothing else.Seletar is because of the lowest price they've spoilt the market.I don't see SBST has the quality over others it's just that they are the senior here and they run bus business longer than the others.TTS and GAS training school is more quality based then them.

    • By the way Woodlands North is under Woodlands package.Bidadari is under Serangoon-Eunos,Marina South should be under Bt Merah.What about Tampines North and Punggol North?

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