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A Defense of the Bible

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  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
  • Fugazzi's Avatar
    1,444 posts since Apr '09
    • Bertrand Russel’s Why I am not a Christian is a litmus test of Christianity. It is meant for the courageous to see and intelligently sift thru and make up his or her own mind.

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Fugazzi:

      Bertrand Russel’s Why I am not a Christian is a litmus test of Christianity. It is meant for the courageous to see and intelligently sift thru and make up his or her own mind.

      I beg to differ. See a response to him here http://www.berith.org/essays/br

  • Fugazzi's Avatar
    1,444 posts since Apr '09
    • to reject outright what knows not nor cares to know about and merely sticking to one’s beliefs n opinions belies these lah – bigotry and prejudices is the highest form of ignorance.

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Fugazzi:

      to reject outright what knows not nor cares to know about and merely sticking to one’s beliefs n opinions belies these lah – bigotry and prejudices is the highest form of ignorance.

      Have you outrightly rejected the Christian response to Bertrand Russell's essay on why he was not a Christian? Are you then guilty of the very thing you accused others of?

  • winsomeea's Avatar
    2,318 posts since Sep '11
  • Fugazzi's Avatar
    1,444 posts since Apr '09
    • Originally posted by BroInChrist:

      Have you outrightly rejected the Christian response to Bertrand Russell's essay on why he was not a Christian? Are you then guilty of the very thing you accused others of?


      I m talking about floodlites and u are prattling on about torchlites - what else is there to say

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Fugazzi:


      I m talking about floodlites and u are prattling on about torchlites - what else is there to say

       

      Why would you say that?

  • Fugazzi's Avatar
    1,444 posts since Apr '09
    • I uttered floodlites – i meant spirituality (which cannot be in any way conceptualised nor be grasped by the human mind cos it transcends all concepts and idelology, tradition, beliefs lah. It is all-embracing and inclusive.
      By torch lite (aka spotlite) I meant that one choooses to concentrate on only one thing to the exclusion of others.
      When I refer to Christianity – i m refering to the spotlite. Jesus was not – he being a floodlite!

      Ideology means one has made one’s summary of life. And when the latter can be summed up, how is one to ever know lah. I m not in any way trying to make u/anyone wrong nor make u/anyone rite here.
      In all my postings here and in other forums, i say what i feel, of course, there are bound to be differences lah. My intention if there is any is simply to provoke thinking and arriving at one’s conclusion when it resonates with him or her. Of course, not necessarily that it must be so.

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Fugazzi,

      The Gospels recorded many exclusive claims made by Jesus. In what sense is Jesus floodlight while Christianity is spotlight?

  • Fugazzi's Avatar
    1,444 posts since Apr '09
    • Logic has never proved anything. Proof of …. comes only through experience, never through logic. Logic can help to explain your experience. No experience is ever derived out of logic.
      Jesus was existential (aka divinity). christianinty is a conditioning/belief/dogma – one is conditioned to be Christian. Jesus did not discriminate, did not exclude, Christianity – does it include, does it discriminate others who are non-Christian?
      The rain does not choose where to fall or on whom to fall or where it thinks raining is deserved or whom deserves to experienc rain. It simply rains and anyone is attuned to appreciating it can partake of it – that is spirituality. Does religion (organised religion, Hinduisim, Islam or …?

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Fugazzi:

      Logic has never proved anything. Proof of …. comes only through experience, never through logic. Logic can help to explain your experience. No experience is ever derived out of logic.
      Jesus was existential (aka divinity). christianinty is a conditioning/belief/dogma – one is conditioned to be Christian. Jesus did not discriminate, did not exclude, Christianity – does it include, does it discriminate others who are non-Christian?
      The rain does not choose where to fall or on whom to fall or where it thinks raining is deserved or whom deserves to experienc rain. It simply rains and anyone is attuned to appreciating it can partake of it – that is spirituality. Does religion (organised religion, Hinduisim, Islam or …?

      That's where you are mistaken. Logic undergirds ALL arguments for anything. You need to use logic to even say "logic has never proved anything". Not only that, there are logical proofs, mathematical proofs, scientific proofs etc all which uses logic. Having an experience is of course not the same as having an argument. When you have experienced something it is personal to holder. But even when you wish to communicate the experience to others you have to employ logic if you wish people to believe you.

      You said that one is conditioned to be a Christian. Interesting. Is one also conditioned NOT to be a Christian too? You said Jesus did not discriminate, but what is the context? When Jesus comes again to judge the living and the dead, do you think He will discriminate between those who love Him and those who hate Him?

      Yes, the rain or sun falls on the righteous and the wicked, and this is what the Bible teaches too. This is the common grace that theologians speak of, it also shows the uniformity of nature that God upholds by the power of His word. Times and seasons are set by God and He upholds them. This is also the general revelation that God has given to man so that we are without excuse that there is a Creator.

  • Demon Bane's Avatar
    3,228 posts since Dec '10
  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Demon Bane:

      What is logic then? Will logic lead to the creation of a new religion ? Hahaha! icon_lol.gif

      Logic is the science of the relations between propositions. Logic can tell us what can be inferred from a given proposition, but it cannot tell us whether the given proposition is true in the first place. All philosophical systems rely on logical deductions from starting assumptions—axioms—which, by definition, cannot be proven from prior assumption.See also http://creation.com/loving-god-with-all-your-mind-logic-and-creation

      I think that Rationalism would be the "new" religion you are referring to.

  • Demon Bane's Avatar
    3,228 posts since Dec '10
    • Originally posted by BroInChrist:

      Logic is the science of the relations between propositions. Logic can tell us what can be inferred from a given proposition, but it cannot tell us whether the given proposition is true in the first place. All philosophical systems rely on logical deductions from starting assumptions—axioms—which, by definition, cannot be proven from prior assumption.See also http://creation.com/loving-god-with-all-your-mind-logic-and-creation

      I think that Rationalism would be the "new" religion you are referring to.

      That's quite possible ! Hahaha! icon_lol.gif How about fanboys of "Star Wars" and "Lord of the Rings" and "The Godfather"....some people live their lives according to the books / movies, they've read or seen....

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Demon Bane:

      That's quite possible ! Hahaha! icon_lol.gif How about fanboys of "Star Wars" and "Lord of the Rings" and "The Godfather"....some people live their lives according to the books / movies, they've read or seen....

      There are people who are "religious" in their devotion to such fantasy novels/movies. But then again, do note that underlying such movies/novels are the worldviews of their creators as well. I am pretty sure you can get a drift of the worldviews promoted by these movies/novels.

  • Demon Bane's Avatar
    3,228 posts since Dec '10
    • Originally posted by BroInChrist:

      There are people who are "religious" in their devotion to such fantasy novels/movies. But then again, do note that underlying such movies/novels are the worldviews of their creators as well. I am pretty sure you can get a drift of the worldviews promoted by these movies/novels.

      So living life based upon a certain "code" is not wrong? Even if the books and movies are all "man-made" ?

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Demon Bane:

      So living life based upon a certain "code" is not wrong? Even if the books and movies are all "man-made" ?

      We all have to live our lives according to certain "codes" or authority. The issue is rather WHAT is this code or authority we live by, and whether it is true, good, livable, and adequate to answer the ultimate questions of life.

  • Demon Bane's Avatar
    3,228 posts since Dec '10
    • How many people can truly and honestly be happy ? Sad to say only a handful....why? Life have too much stress....hectic work, expensive housing, higher standard of living, expensive cars, increased costs of having a family...etc...With so many "problems", its really tough to stay happy....icon_frown.gif

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Demon Bane:

      How many people can truly and honestly be happy ? Sad to say only a handful....why? Life have too much stress....hectic work, expensive housing, higher standard of living, expensive cars, increased costs of having a family...etc...With so many "problems", its really tough to stay happy....icon_frown.gif

      Could it be then that one of the reasons many are not happy is because they have not found God? God created us for a purpose, and one of them would be to have fellowship with Him. To not have God would be to have a vacuum in our hearts which only God can fill.

  • Demon Bane's Avatar
    3,228 posts since Dec '10
    • Originally posted by BroInChrist:

      Could it be then that one of the reasons many are not happy is because they have not found God? God created us for a purpose, and one of them would be to have fellowship with Him. To not have God would be to have a vacuum in our hearts which only God can fill.

      I think a more accurate way is to find a religious belief....yes perhaps christianity....I have some christian frens and also some buddhist frens, they all said religion complete their lives...make them more whole as a person and be spiritually happy....

      You dunno the lives of many SG people....the average adult spend 10 hours a day travelling/working, then 2 hours eating and 8 hrs sleeping, 2 hours watching TV...and maybe 2 hours in religion or/and family....life will get a little "meaningless"....after doing the same things everyday....but bills and housing/car loans have to be paid....

      Some people even worse....have to OT even on saturdays and sundays....have to do it becos have loans to pay....can't quit the job....icon_frown.gif

       

       

      Edited by Demon Bane 30 Dec `11, 9:47AM
  • Fugazzi's Avatar
    1,444 posts since Apr '09
    • Organized religion(s) of any denomination when it is be observed and shared out of one’s fullness (within) is not about one man’s belief against another, but that which serves as catalyst by his being …(fill in what comes to mind, eg loving, divisive, kind or &#8230Wink and an opportunity for others to gravitates towards one inner source of being, ie, all are the same at the centre. One was never born a Hindu nor a Christian nor a …. Is there such a thing as Hindu truth or Christian or Buddhist truth? In fact truth as such does not exist. What exists is relatively true and truth is always relative to what is and it is everchanging.
      One is not born a Chinese or an Indian Nor a Buddhist or a … one is ’’programmed’’/’‘conditioned’’ since one’’s birth to be a Chinese or an … . It is ’’ok’’ to practice any religion but when it () is not transcended one is still unfree! When one is unself conscious (ie, a porous ego) there is a possibility. One is merely stuck with rituals and regurgitating what has been told via books,sutras,priests,pastors. Is there any dignity in being human and yet consigned to servitude?

  • Demon Bane's Avatar
    3,228 posts since Dec '10
  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Fugazzi:

      Organized religion(s) of any denomination when it is be observed and shared out of one’s fullness (within) is not about one man’s belief against another, but that which serves as catalyst by his being …(fill in what comes to mind, eg loving, divisive, kind or &#8230Wink and an opportunity for others to gravitates towards one inner source of being, ie, all are the same at the centre. One was never born a Hindu nor a Christian nor a …. Is there such a thing as Hindu truth or Christian or Buddhist truth? In fact truth as such does not exist. What exists is relatively true and truth is always relative to what is and it is everchanging.
      One is not born a Chinese or an Indian Nor a Buddhist or a … one is ’’programmed’’/’‘conditioned’’ since one’’s birth to be a Chinese or an … . It is ’’ok’’ to practice any religion but when it () is not transcended one is still unfree! When one is unself conscious (ie, a porous ego) there is a possibility. One is merely stuck with rituals and regurgitating what has been told via books,sutras,priests,pastors. Is there any dignity in being human and yet consigned to servitude?

       

      Our human dignity is to be made in the image of God, and to serve God is man's rightful response to God. Jesus came as a humble servant to serve and to give His life as a ransom for many. Paul called himself a slave of Christ. So servitude depends on who your master is.

      Edited by BroInChrist 31 Dec `11, 1:38AM
  • laurence82's Avatar
    125,854 posts since Nov '03
    • Originally posted by Demon Bane:

      Well, choice is a good thing ! There's enuff for everyone ! icon_lol.gif


      some choice

      believe in my religion or go to hell

      icon_lol.gif

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