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ST News: SCS Cadet Injured @ 40mm Grenade Round Live Firing!

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  • alize's Avatar
    3,369 posts since Dec '10
    •  
      AsiaOne
      Sunday, Jul 31, 2011

      A Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) full-time National Serviceman (NSF) was injured during a live-firing exercise on Sunday.

      21-year-old Specialist Cadet (SCT) Percy Toh Cheng Kai was firing a 40mm Automatic Grenade Launcher when one round exploded prematurely in the weapon.

      He was handling the weapon at the SAFTI Live Firing Area as part of his Specialist Armour Course when a 40mm round's propellant exploded.

      SCT Toh sustained shrapnel injuries to his chest, right arm and right cheek.

      According to a statement from Mindef, he was attended to immediately by SAF medical personnel and then sent to National University Hospital (NUH) where he underwent treatment for his injuries.

      SCT Toh is currently in stable condition and is expected to be discharged from NUH within the next few days.

      Mindef says the SAF is conducting an investigation to determine the cause of the incident.

      *this post may not display correctly

      Edited by alize 04 Aug `11, 3:13PM
  • βέτά's Avatar
    2,467 posts since Jan '10
  • cyberr1981's Avatar
    1,566 posts since Oct '06
  • Rock^Star's Avatar
    11,142 posts since Jul '05
    • Discharged from NUH....I almost read it as discharged from SAF. So many people get injured in NS every year. Last time I was at a M203 firing, my friend almost dropped his round. My palpitating heart almost exploded too. Live weapons are no joke.

  • Epcoxn's Avatar
    12 posts since Aug '11
    • Why is it nowaday the younger genernation get injured or worst die while in service?? In my days,late 80's to early 90's, seldom serviceman get killed. When they do, is mostly getting stuck by lightening while training outdoors.

       During my time, there was very few, if not none, on serviceman during training getting injured with firearms. The Trainners damm strict. Should review on the training SOP.

       

  • lemon1974's Avatar
    7,165 posts since Dec '04
    • wonder who change the title? what is "40mm explosion"?

    • Originally posted by Epcoxn:

      Why is it nowaday the younger genernation get injured or worst die while in service?? In my days,late 80's to early 90's, seldom serviceman get killed. When they do, is mostly getting stuck by lightening while training outdoors.

       During my time, there was very few, if not none, on serviceman during training getting injured with firearms. The Trainners damm strict. Should review on the training SOP.

       

      a lot of cases are UNREPORTED during that time....

  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,381 posts since Apr '05
    • Originally posted by lemon1974:

      wonder who change the title? what is "40mm explosion"?


      standard feature of this forum....courtesy of the resident mod.teeth.png

  • Epcoxn's Avatar
    12 posts since Aug '11
    • There might have been not too sure but in my last unit there has not been any during my time served.In the navy,195 sqn, I was one of those strict SOB who will pluck my juniors,left right and centre, if I saw them not doing by the book or how I had trained them.Either weapons or seamanship. That maybe why had no case of injuries in my sqn during my time there

      Though I was strict. I did take care of my guys when they had problems. And what i had trained them on they did not forget even after their active service. Was with them during most of my reservist training and they did better than the active guys. They would also comment when I did not pluck at anyone during the time served. Takes one SOB to control all, so mistakes seldom occur, if did not serious enough for injury or death.

       

  • alize's Avatar
    3,369 posts since Dec '10
    • All quoted from http://kementah.blogspot.com/

      Deaths 2001-2010 alone (42):

      Singapore Army: 26 deaths *includes 2005 Commando rapelling accident (1 SAF + 1 Bruneian dead), truck reversing'10 (1), Land Rover reversing'09 (1), SOF drowning at sea (1), Commando drowning (1), Commando dunking (1)

      Army accidents (injuries): Thai farmer (2), OCS lightning strike (6)

      Republic of Singapore Air Force: Eight deaths, including the loss of an F-16C. *includes Apache crash landing (0), F-16 CFIT crash (1),

      Republic of Singapore Navy: Seven deaths, including an Anti-submarine Patrol Vessel beyond economic repair * includes LST accident (1), man overboard accident (1), RSS Courageous collision (4)

      MINDEF: One Defence Executive Officer (DXO) *any info available?

      Deaths in 1990s:

      In March 1997, the SAF halted training temporarily after three full-time National Servicemen died in two fatal incidents. Two NSFs were killed when their FH-2000 155mm heavy artillery gun blew up in New Zealand because of a defective Made in China fuze. One NSF was killed in Singapore after an unexploded warhead from a misfired Armbrust light anti-tank weapon picked up by infantrymen blew up. Five others were injured, including a Lieutenant who lost his arm.

      Deaths pre-1990s:

      The SAF's deadliest accident took place on Jan 24, 1987, when six lives were lost in a helicopter crash. Staff Sergeant Goh Kim Loong, Corporal Ramiya Mohan, Lieutenants Ng Soon Hup, Siow Poh Guan and Wee Tong Leong and Captain Lakbir Singh died after an air force UH-1H Huey crashed 14 nautical miles south-east of Brunei International Airport.

      In April 1984, three SAF soldiers died over a span of 10 days. Recruit Sim Keat Kee, 19, collapsed after a 2km run. Lieutenant Koh Meah Wan, 23, was killed during an exercise at Sungei Gedong. And Recruit Bak Yow Hock, 17, died at the School of Naval Training.

      Ffirst reported training death in October 1968. In that incident, Recruit Allen Tan Chong Huat, 19, was stung by hornets in the Chua Chu Kang forest. He was rushed to Taman Jurong Camp but there was no doctor on duty there ( military doctors then clocked an 8am to 5pm shift). What's more, the garrison's ambulance was out on another call. So Recruit Tan's officers rushed him to the main road to flag down a passing vehicle. It took an hour to get him to hospital.

      *RSAF accidents (in which pilots ejected): 1986 TA-4 off Tengah, 1986 Hunter Philippines, 1985 A-4 off Tengah, 1985 A-4 in Philippines

      On non-reporting:

      A look at MINDEF/SAF incident reports for the 2001 to 2010 period reveals that the MINDEF website does not mention the deaths of 2LT Daryl Loh (man overboard) in February 2001, CPL Ricky Liu Junhong (2.4km run) in November 2007 and the near miss in which a Commando was shot by a Thai farmer in 2010. (Mindef took 73 days to report)

      It also puzzles me why the loved ones of a full-time National Serviceman injured in the shotgun incident had to speak up before Singaporeans learned that the incident involved more than one soldier.

      In addition, Singaporeans had to read a Forum Page letter to learn about the incident where Recruit Liam Kai Zheng fainted at the SAF Ferry Terminal in Changi and died in hospital a day later. The letter was written by REC Liam's father.

      Apart from old soldiers with long memories, many Singaporeans would probably not have heard of most of these incidents because death was a taboo subject for Mindef. Indeed, one would be hard-pressed to find open analyses of past training deaths, especially in the early years of the SAF.

      Edited by alize 06 Aug `11, 10:06PM
  • Rock^Star's Avatar
    11,142 posts since Jul '05
    • Feel sorry for the families of these deceased soldiers, I'm sure they were looking forward to their tertiary education.

  • βέτά's Avatar
    2,467 posts since Jan '10
    •  

      Geez! icon_lol.gif

       

      The round exploded prematurely in the chamber and you guys attribute this to training procedures. icon_lol.gif

       

      Where is the witch? I want to join the witch hunt too. icon_lol.gif

       

       

  • alize's Avatar
    3,369 posts since Dec '10
    • Originally posted by βέτά:

       

      Geez! icon_lol.gif

       

      The round exploded prematurely in the chamber and you guys attribute this to training procedures. icon_lol.gif

       

      Where is the witch? I want to join the witch hunt too. icon_lol.gif

       

       

      Many ways that could happen.

      The grenade could have self-detonated or been struck, not least by the firing pin before the breech was closed.

      Edited by alize 04 Aug `11, 3:29PM
  • Epcoxn's Avatar
    12 posts since Aug '11
    • I admit there has been deaths in the SAF. For which is regrettable, as i was active till 1995 luckly deaths in my unit, if not mistaken nil.There were some death before my joining the Navy and some while I was in Fleet.Mostly sucides by heartbroken cases ,accidents on the road and by act of God( Mother Nature: Lightening sticks local and overseas).However the worst would be through negligence or bending the SOP. Like the collison of LST. 

      As for the above case :

      There was no mention on if the barrel was hot at the time of explosion.

      If the rounds issued were close to expiry or worst past date.?

      Or had the round been dropped or the percution cap been damaged?

      And what preventive measures will be exercised as not to happen in the future?

      Maybe wearing bulletproof armour or a shield plating. Can be considered.

  • shinkansen's Avatar
    290 posts since Oct '06
    • I think these are only the tip of an iceberg, still got many more... which is not reported!

      I remember I read thru a incident report, a trainee was accidently shot by a GPMG. I saw the pic, the round go thru his thigh then out of his groin!

      The accident took place in the 1970s during the live firing exercise. The missed fire was happen at the end of the exercise where everyone was clearing their weapon. one of the personnel saw the round which was stuck in the barrel of the GPMG then he use the mallet to knock to clear the stuck round .  It so happen that the round just when off after it was being mallet and the poor fella was shot. The GPMG was mounted on the turret of the SM-1 tank and the decease was just standing directly in front of the GPMG. The decease die on the way to the hospital cos the ambulance driver didn't know the way to NUH.

      Edited by shinkansen 05 Aug `11, 2:52AM
  • Rock^Star's Avatar
    11,142 posts since Jul '05
  • dragg's Avatar
    49,302 posts since Mar '05
    • Originally posted by Epcoxn:

      I admit there has been deaths in the SAF. For which is regrettable, as i was active till 1995 luckly deaths in my unit, if not mistaken nil.There were some death before my joining the Navy and some while I was in Fleet.Mostly sucides by heartbroken cases ,accidents on the road and by act of God( Mother Nature: Lightening sticks local and overseas).However the worst would be through negligence or bending the SOP. Like the collison of LST. 

      As for the above case :

      There was no mention on if the barrel was hot at the time of explosion.

      If the rounds issued were close to expiry or worst past date.?

      Or had the round been dropped or the percution cap been damaged?

      And what preventive measures will be exercised as not to happen in the future?

      Maybe wearing bulletproof armour or a shield plating. Can be considered.

      the navy and air force are less dangerous.

  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,381 posts since Apr '05
    • Originally posted by dragg:

      the navy and air force are less dangerous.


      Dunno about air force, but you are dead wrong about navy. Every step on board taken without care would ensure you get hurt somehow.

      Well.

      You have to serve on board to understand that better.

      The navy has only 4000 odd folks.....of course you would hear less things. Moreover not all injuries are reported.

      And most people there are regulars.....they are not regulars by name only obviously. So they're better at taking care of themselves, and can teach the minority NSFs better working alongside them. That still doesn't mean no accidents and certainly doesn't mean the environment is safe. Quite the contrary in fact.

      Edited by SBS2601D 05 Aug `11, 11:11AM
    • Originally posted by βέτά:

       

      Geez! icon_lol.gif

       

      The round exploded prematurely in the chamber and you guys attribute this to training procedures. icon_lol.gif

       

      Where is the witch? I want to join the witch hunt too. icon_lol.gif

       

       

      You obviously never touch live rounds before....the fella/mainteinance peeps could have mishandled the round or load it wrongly.

      You want to hit the primer base for me to see before you make this statement?

      On 2nd thoughts I don't want to be around to see this.teeth.png

      Edited by SBS2601D 05 Aug `11, 11:08AM
  • sbst275's Avatar
    113,434 posts since Jun '04
  • alize's Avatar
    3,369 posts since Dec '10
    • Originally posted by shinkansen:

       think these are only the tip of an iceberg, still got many more... which is not reported!

      I remember I read thru a incident report, a trainee was accidently shot by a GPMG. I saw the pic, the round go thru his thigh then out of his groin!

      The accident took place in the 1970s during the live firing exercise. The missed fire was happen at the end of the exercise where everyone was clearing their weapon. one of the personnel saw the round which was stuck in the barrel of the GPMG then he use the mallet to knock to clear the stuck round .  It so happen that the round just when off after it was being mallet and the poor fella was shot. The GPMG was mounted on the turret of the SM-1 tank and the decease was just standing directly in front of the GPMG. The decease die on the way to the hospital cos the ambulance driver didn't know the way to NUH.

      Jia lat.

      I'm not sure if anyone went to my primary school in the 90s. There was an old Chinese teacher who was very patriotic and very fierce.

      She often repeated a story of how her son saw a friend run over by a tank! Don't know if it was AMX (that time no SM1) or Centurion.

      She kept saying how the body was ground to a pulp and her son could never forget. She told the story to half the school.

      Edited by alize 05 Aug `11, 12:30PM
  • Epcoxn's Avatar
    12 posts since Aug '11
    • I was a regular in the Navy and have NS men in my care. I did train them as mention above. That is why trainned them hard. No injuries to my man was ever happened. they know what they can and what they are trainned to do. If anyone were to ask them to do any thing out of their ability even if they were of high rank had told them refer them to me. For your infor, I am just a local 3sgt with experiance (Condemmed sgt ,failed IPPT for any promotions) but what I say sometimes counts. If, no choose ,had to be done then I will do the task at hand , as  I can stop or change the requirements for better and safer completion and be able to answer for my actions, without any injuries to any of my men.

  • alize's Avatar
    3,369 posts since Dec '10
    • This is very disturbing...


      If human error is at fault, so too is higher leadership in LCP Wee's C4I battalion for gross failure to remind and reinforce safety messages.

      I can see where the official MINDEF/SAF investigation will lead to. Going by established procedure, the Wee family is likely to come under close scrutiny when they go to Jurong Camp to collect his belongings. Reports are likely to be submitted by the Special Investigation Branch, with tell tale signs of anger or aggression by the Wees jotted down in painstaking detail.

      kementah.blogspot.com

  • ditzy's Avatar
    67,538 posts since Dec '03
    • During my time, one of my army mates recieved 21 extras for misfiring the 40mm agl, fortunately it was aimed at the range butt, unfortunately there were big shots near the range butt area, even more unfortunate there were guests from brunei at that time, also at the butt area. He was fortunate to get away with 21 extras only because, they attributed the fault to the firing feed system of the agl, even to this day I go in camp for revision, they still talk about this problem of the agl, because to be frank, I think it was a problem that was never ever rectified.icon_lol.gif I like my HMGs.icon_lol.gif

  • alize's Avatar
    3,369 posts since Dec '10
    • Originally posted by dragg:

      the navy and air force are less dangerous.

      one wrong step, and your forehead is gashed by the many sharp fins and corners on the plane, missiles, aerials etc.

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