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New Born Baby: To be a Singaporean or NOT

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  • justcooler's Avatar
    358 posts since Sep '05
    • Hi all,

      I seek your valuable advises from fellow formers on my situation.

      Present
      My wife and I is on Australia, I was here to pursue a higher degree (completing end 200Cool and she is working. We will be having a baby this April 2007.

      Situation developing
      After the birth of my baby we wanted to bring the baby back to Singapore (within 6 weeks) as both of us is not financially capable (placing the baby in daycare and my wife need to work). We intend to leave our baby in the care of my mother in law for 2 years, before bring him back to Aus in 08/09.

      Action 1: Let the baby be Aussie
      Now baby born in Aus can be Aussie, but if we bring the baby back to Singapore with Australia passport, he will need to leave SG every 4months over the 2 year duration. However, this action I believe will not complicate the NS matter that the baby is going to face in 18 years time. (as I intend to stay in Aus to work). Furthermore, he can enter Singapore without any trouble in the future.

      Action 2: Let the baby be Singaporean
      Let the baby become Singaporean. Solve the short term problem, but in longer term it is a much bigger problem. If I intended to stay in Aus. The baby will eventually come back here, and with Australia up-bringing I doubt he will want to serve NS. Even if he is willing to serve NS, he will have a hard time.. If he is not going to serve NS then he is consider as a defaulter, and will not be able to enter Singapore in the future.

      So what can I do ??

  • Inzaghi's Avatar
    15,363 posts since Jun '00
    • let the baby b a singaporean....tat's wat some of my frens did..den make the baby a OZ PR, best of both world...

      of cos u cant win everything..still gotta give n take...18yrs later u dunno wat will happen also..

  • Coquitlam's Avatar
    783 posts since Mar '06
    • I'd have to go with making my children citizens of my new adopted country....

      Later on when they are older and going out to work, they can then come back to Sillypore and be part of the foreign talent army...Best of both worlds....no need to do NS and get stuck in all the local politics for 3 million people...better to be part of the 1 million people..

  • hisoka's Avatar
    37,612 posts since Mar '05
    • i would suggest if its a male then give aussie citizen, it isn’t hard to visit sg for australians. but not sure if the 2 years stay with mil will be a problem

  • shinta's Avatar
    25,341 posts since Mar '04
    • Originally posted by hisoka:
      i would suggest if its a male then give aussie citizen, it isn't hard to visit sg for australians. but not sure if the 2 years stay with mil will be a problem

      i heard the budget airlines just came out with routes to AU..

      so i guess this shouldn be a problem?

      just fly a bit more often to n fro =X

  • Coquitlam's Avatar
    783 posts since Mar '06
    • Remember what MM said over the weekend....

      there will be more and more foreigners.....(this is unavoidable)

      and if we are not careful there will be a situation where the foreign talents will take the top jobs and leave the middle to low level jobs for Sillyporeans to fight it out.

      Granted there are foreign talents in OZ and Canada, but their landmass, socio-economic infrastructure can support the growth....So just consider this when you decide where you want your children to be....I'd rather have my children come back here as FTs

      Sillypore wants to support a population of 6-7 million??????

      Thank God I migrated a few years back...

      BE afraid, Be very afraid.......

  • Mid9Sun's Avatar
    986 posts since Jun '06
  • gerrykoh's Avatar
    2,163 posts since May '04
    • Originally posted by Coquitlam:
      I'd have to go with making my children citizens of my new adopted country....

      Later on when they are older and going out to work, they can then come back to Sillypore and be part of the foreign talent army...Best of both worlds....no need to do NS and get stuck in all the local politics for 3 million people...better to be part of the 1 million people..

      I agree. Since both of u intend to stay in Australia, better the kid takes Australia citizenship. You should persuade your mother or mother-in-law to come over & help u look after the kid.
      It is not advisable to leave him/her in S'pore cos the early years u need to bond with the kid

  • Moderator
    honeymouse's Avatar
    6,785 posts since Sep '06
    • Originally posted by justcooler:
      Hi all,

      I seek your valuable advises from fellow formers on my situation.

      Present
      My wife and I is on Australia, I was here to pursue a higher degree (completing end 200Cool and she is working. We will be having a baby this April 2007.

      Situation developing
      After the birth of my baby we wanted to bring the baby back to Singapore (within 6 weeks) as both of us is not financially capable (placing the baby in daycare and my wife need to work). We intend to leave our baby in the care of my mother in law for 2 years, before bring him back to Aus in 08/09.

      Action 1: Let the baby be Aussie
      Now baby born in Aus can be Aussie, but if we bring the baby back to Singapore with Australia passport, he will need to leave SG every 4months over the 2 year duration. However, this action I believe will not complicate the NS matter that the baby is going to face in 18 years time. (as I intend to stay in Aus to work). Furthermore, he can enter Singapore without any trouble in the future.

      Action 2: Let the baby be Singaporean
      Let the baby become Singaporean. Solve the short term problem, but in longer term it is a much bigger problem. If I intended to stay in Aus. The baby will eventually come back here, and with Australia up-bringing I doubt he will want to serve NS. Even if he is willing to serve NS, he will have a hard time.. If he is not going to serve NS then he is consider as a defaulter, and will not be able to enter Singapore in the future.

      So what can I do ??

      Would you consider Option 3?
      Option 3: Get your parents and your in-law to take turn to come and look after the baby.

      While I understand your financial situation you're in, I personally think it's rather cruel to separate the child from the parents. It's not going to be healthy (psychologically) as the bonding with the parents is very important for a child especially the first 2 years.

      I am pretty sure you can work something out if you want to let your kid to stay here. It might be tough but do it for sake of your child especially when you choose to bring him/her to the world.

      Which part of Oz are you in?

  • Deportivo's Avatar
    2,454 posts since Apr '05
    • the choice is really a "non-choice". Aussie is the way to go.

      Edited by Deportivo 22 Jan `07, 10:52AM
  • Xtrider's Avatar
    2,314 posts since Jul '06
    • can take dual now rite? only he must renouce one when he reaches 21…so will help u decide better in the future….

  • SevenEleven's Avatar
    7,462 posts since Aug '05
    • i presume you have confirmed the baby to be a boy. I think that only after a certain age that you will need a bond to send our child overseas. Let the child be a Singaporean. this will solve your short/mid term need. When you become a PR in Aus, then decide. I believe it is easy for him to apply then.

  • pinkish purple papayas's Avatar
    666 posts since Oct '02
    • Are u gonna stay in auzzie long term?

      then please please please let ur poor child be an auzzie too.
      I presumed that ur child is gonna be a boy. In my NS days, i had 2 examples,

      - a guy that had been living in australia all his life and only came to singapore once as a kid.

      - another malaysian boy that nvr came to Singapore b4. Rich chinese malaysian living in some 4 story bungalow and has a dad as a datuk.

      Ok..long story cut short. One ended up commiting suicide and another...never had any real friends.

      Please dun make ur kids suffer...theres nothing good about Singapore. Dun be a Singaporean just because they offer lift upgrading at a discounted price in HDBs..

  • charlize's Avatar
    31,782 posts since Mar '05
    • Originally posted by Coquitlam:
      Remember what MM said over the weekend....

      there will be more and more foreigners.....(this is unavoidable)

      and if we are not careful there will be a situation where the foreign talents will take the top jobs and leave the middle to low level jobs for Sillyporeans to fight it out.

      Granted there are foreign talents in OZ and Canada, but their landmass, socio-economic infrastructure can support the growth....So just consider this when you decide where you want your children to be....I'd rather have my children come back here as FTs

      Sillypore wants to support a population of 6-7 million??????

      Thank God I migrated a few years back...

      BE afraid, Be very afraid.......

      Laughing

  • Moderator
    jetta's Avatar
    11,930 posts since Jan '06
    • I have gone through (and still am) what you're going through. Firstly, don't live apart from your child. I did this with my son and till this day, he's closer to me than to his Dad. Hubby was hurt but you have to remember that it's nothing personal. You just have to accept it and try hard to bond. In our situation, it couldn't be helped. We're a military family and hubby would go on long and frequent deployments for months and months.

      As for the passport issue, my kids are teens now and even though they always enjoy their visits to Singapore, deep in my heart I know they are Singaporeans on paper only. When they were babies, it was convenient during visits back, we could stay as long as we wanted. I know of friends in similar situations who had to exit Sg with their kids every 2 weeks to extend their stay. I think this situation has changed? I could be wrong.

      I know of another Sg family who live here with their two sons. Their older son just turned 16 and they had to pay a $75000 bond to the Sg govt and have their son serve NS. This happened last summer. The entire family are Singaporeans and they are the first people I know of who got their green card here via the green card lottery. Laughing

      Edited by jetta 22 Jan `07, 12:59PM
  • sunny6110's Avatar
    7,188 posts since Jul '02
  • pinkish purple papayas's Avatar
    666 posts since Oct '02
    • Is'nt it sad that even citizens from Singapore also discourage people from becoming Singaporean..

      Obviously something is very wrong with this place we call Singapore.

      Edited by pinkish purple papayas 22 Jan `07, 1:26PM
  • justcooler's Avatar
    358 posts since Sep '05
    • Originally posted by honeymouse:
      Would you consider Option 3?
      Option 3: Get your parents and your in-law to take turn to come and look after the baby.

      While I understand your financial situation you're in, I personally think it's rather cruel to separate the child from the parents. It's not going to be healthy (psychologically) as the bonding with the parents is very important for a child especially the first 2 years.

      I am pretty sure you can work something out if you want to let your kid to stay here. It might be tough but do it for sake of your child especially when you choose to bring him/her to the world.

      Which part of Oz are you in?

      sad to say, my mum past away 2 years ago. The treatment my mum got from NUH is part of the reason i decided to come to Aus. My mother in law is running the family business, so very busy.

      We are both very sad to part from our baby, but have no choice.

      We are presently in Brisbane

    • Originally posted by SevenEleven:
      i presume you have confirmed the baby to be a boy. I think that only after a certain age that you will need a bond to send our child overseas. Let the child be a Singaporean. this will solve your short/mid term need. When you become a PR in Aus, then decide. I believe it is easy for him to apply then.

      Maybe that will be a good choice

    • Thank all for your kind responds.

      I would really like to go back to Singapore for long term, after my study. That is where all my friends, relatives, memories are. Our baby or babies will be well love and taken care by all.

      But the diminishing opportunities, social and political conditions in the country really diminish my optimisms of returning back home. So as to say, just hope that things will change in 5 years time

    • Originally posted by pinkish purple papayas:
      Is'nt it sad that even citizens from Singapore also discourage people from becoming Singaporean..

      Obviously something is very wrong with this place we call Singapore.

      I strongly believe that there is nothing wrong with singapore, but the higher echelon that is running the country; and also not to forget the offspring of these elites

  • autumncs's Avatar
    448 posts since Oct '06
    • Originally posted by pinkish purple papayas:
      Is'nt it sad that even citizens from Singapore also discourage people from becoming Singaporean..

      Obviously something is very wrong with this place we call Singapore.

      It seems NS is the cause of all these troubles and debates... If not for NS, a Singapore citizenship is desirable. The Singapore government provides quite a lot of "welfare" to the citizens. Singapore passport holders can also enter a lot of countries without visa. (But curiously, we need a visa to enter Australia...)

      The place where the child attend school will also strongly influence the choice of nationality. If the child attends school in Australia all along, he will be learning all the Australian values and making friends with Aussie children... In the end, he won't have any attachment to Singapore and he will be very reluctant to serve NS. (In this case he'll be happier if he's an Aussie citizen.)

      For me, I was born in HK, migrated to Singapore, and got Singapore citizenship, so I have to serve NS... Looking back, NS is still ok for me, since I have attended school in Singapore from Primary 3 and I was bombarded with all those "National Education"... I made friends in Singapore, and I served NS with my friends, so I was not so lonely. Although HK is my birthplace, I only have relatives there but no friends. I feel more attached to Singapore because I had my education in Singapore and all my friends are Singaporeans.

      On the other hand, I have a friend who went to Australia to study. When he returned to Singapore for NS, he cannot adapt to the military lifestyle and he can't mingle with the fellow Singaporeans. After BMT, he suffered from depression and had to visit psychologist to get deferment. (And his parents had to pay a large sum of deposit for the deferment.) Now he's studying in an Aussie uni, and I dunno whether he still wanna come back to SG...

  • whitsundays's Avatar
    32 posts since Apr '05
    • Hi Justcooler

      According to what you've stated in the first post, your main problem is finance as you cannot afford daycare. What is your status. Are you a PR or are you Citizen or are you holding a student visa. If you are a PR, you obtain family assistance from the government as you are having a child.

  • Moderator
    littlestream's Avatar
    20,684 posts since Apr '05
    • I believe the baby (minor) can hold dual citizenship (i) aussie by birth (if born in land of oz) and (ii) s'porean by descent (till age 21).

      You may check with the singapore consulate in your area or residence.

      With regards to national service, this is an issue with mindef. While you may find it in their website that male leaving the country (sg) before the age of 11 may defer NS until age 21 at which time when they renounce their sg citizenship, they may not need to serve NS. Note i use the words "may not" as this is on a case by case basis.

      you may wish to do more research on the mindef web site.

      be aware that there is also a clause that indicated that if you renounce your sg citizenship, you WILL NOT BE allowed to work in sg.

      but seriously, i hope u will not live apart from your baby. it will be very sad. if it is finance, i hope you can find an alternate solution.

      research, go talk to the consulate. i hope the ones you have there can be helpful and compassionate. good luck and all the very best.

      Edited by littlestream 23 Jan `07, 9:51PM
  • fymk's Avatar
    3,872 posts since Sep '04
    • Originally posted by justcooler:
      Hi all,

      I seek your valuable advises from fellow formers on my situation.

      Present
      My wife and I is on Australia, I was here to pursue a higher degree (completing end 200Cool and she is working. We will be having a baby this April 2007.

      Situation developing
      After the birth of my baby we wanted to bring the baby back to Singapore (within 6 weeks) as both of us is not financially capable (placing the baby in daycare and my wife need to work). We intend to leave our baby in the care of my mother in law for 2 years, before bring him back to Aus in 08/09.

      Action 1: Let the baby be Aussie
      Now baby born in Aus can be Aussie, but if we bring the baby back to Singapore with Australia passport, he will need to leave SG every 4months over the 2 year duration. However, this action I believe will not complicate the NS matter that the baby is going to face in 18 years time. (as I intend to stay in Aus to work). Furthermore, he can enter Singapore without any trouble in the future.

      Action 2: Let the baby be Singaporean
      Let the baby become Singaporean. Solve the short term problem, but in longer term it is a much bigger problem. If I intended to stay in Aus. The baby will eventually come back here, and with Australia up-bringing I doubt he will want to serve NS. Even if he is willing to serve NS, he will have a hard time.. If he is not going to serve NS then he is consider as a defaulter, and will not be able to enter Singapore in the future.

      So what can I do ??

      Action 1: I do believe that certain departments and companies have family friendly policies.

      Are you and your wife permanent residents of Australia or both of you on student/spousal visas? Factor in your medical costs . I don't think Overseas Student health insurance might cover obs and gynae costs or maybe now they do. I most certainly hope that your wife is not supporting you financially because maternity leave and maternity costs will bust your wallet if you are not a PR in Australia.

      How certain of you gaining permanent residency if you are not one? I heard they are going to start revising the policy again. If your child is born in Australia and then you forgo your child's Singaporean citizenship , I forsee trouble in the future.

      Action 2: policy changes all the time as legislation with just a stroke of a few pens.

      If you have PR in Australia - by all means, keep him Australian. If you have no PR - I won't risk it with Australia unless you know very good immigration lawyers who can advise you.

      I am more for keeping the child australian ,however, in a non pr circumstance , I will advise you to seek advice from an immigration lawyer and consider the factors should you fail in your attempt to obtain PR.

      Consider your finances too because it will be a problem if you or your wife cannot sustain your family. I know it sounds harsh but if you do not have PR , the liability might affect your studies and future especially if you do not have family support . Do what you need to survive - that is the most important.

      Edited by fymk 24 Jan `07, 11:14PM
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