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Using Bible to Prove Bible is Circular Reasoning?

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  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Christians are often accused of using the Bible to prove the Bible and many do not know how to answer this and some are even embarrassed by it and try to set the Bible aside in their dialogue with nonbelievers. This article shows how to effectively refute this accusation. See http://creation.com/not-circular-reasoning

  • despondent's Avatar
    2,223 posts since Feb '06
    • Although I am Christian, I try not to use the bible too much when discussing wif non believers. I see it tis way: If I am the accuse in the court, would the judge trust my testimony if I am the only witness, only defence got myself? However, when testimonies of other ppl comes in, wad they say makes better evidence.

      No matter how true the bible may be, a non believer of it wil not be open to the bible defence of itself. But when we use nature n daily living as explanations n evidences, the non believers can relate better cos nature n daily living r there for everyone to see n validate. after seeing from the natural, then I will show tat the bible also said the same thing but recorded thousands of yrs ago...

      Yhe above though is my own opinions n approach...

  • Aneslayer's Avatar
    1,511 posts since May '11
    • If the bible doesn't exist, God still do. God need no defense. Practically, the bible is sort of a manual of guidelines to live in the favor of God. Similar to science text, the bible does not proves. It records the observations, concept deemed to be true at the moment of time, and updates interpretations accordingly, until proven false or obsolete.

      Edited by Aneslayer 14 Jul `12, 12:11PM
  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Aneslayer:

      If the bible doesn't exist, God still do. God need no defense. Practically, the bible is sort of a manual of guidelines to live in the favor of God. Similar to science text, the bible does not proves. It records the observations, concept deemed to be true at the moment of time, and updates interpretations accordingly, until proven false or obsolete.


      In a sense you are right, God need no defense, in relation to His existence. Paul in the book of Romans said that the invisible God is "seen" in the visible things He has made and that man is without excuse. What happens is that man suppresses the truth about God's existence and deny it. Theologians call this General Revelation. But the Bible is Special Revelation where God reveals things to us that cannot be known via the created world.

  • lce's Avatar
    2,465 posts since Jun '11
    • Originally posted by BroInChrist:


      In a sense you are right, God need no defense, in relation to His existence. Paul in the book of Romans said that the invisible God is "seen" in the visible things He has made and that man is without excuse. What happens is that man suppresses the truth about God's existence and deny it. Theologians call this General Revelation. But the Bible is Special Revelation where God reveals things to us that cannot be known via the created world.


      <profanity deleted>

      u agree to disagree?

      Edited by BroInChrist 16 Jul `12, 10:07AM
  • Aneslayer's Avatar
    1,511 posts since May '11
  • Jacky Woo's Avatar
    1,543 posts since Nov '10
    • you surely dun believe the earth is 6,000  years old?

      alot of christians doesnt believe the bible in a literal sense, such as this case in point. surely you dun believe the earth is not created in 6 days.

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

      you surely dun believe the earth is 6,000  years old?

      alot of christians doesnt believe the bible in a literal sense, such as this case in point. surely you dun believe the earth is not created in 6 days.


      In fact I do. Jesus did. The Jewish calendar now is about 5,800 years after creation.

  • Jacky Woo's Avatar
    1,543 posts since Nov '10
  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
  • Jacky Woo's Avatar
    1,543 posts since Nov '10
  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

      You are not a sane person.


      Ad hominem attack noted. Well when Jesus was on earth He was accused of being mad and having a demon but we all know that His accusers were wrong. So there you go.

  • Aneslayer's Avatar
    1,511 posts since May '11
  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Aneslayer:

      ^ Did someone just compared himself with Jesus? Some ego...


      Again a lack of Bible knowledge leads you to the wrong ad hominem conclusion again. The Bible says that we are to be like Jesus. And Jesus said that those who follow Him will be hated by the world because the world first hated Him. So there you go.

  • Aneslayer's Avatar
    1,511 posts since May '11
    • Originally posted by BroInChrist:


      Again a lack of Bible knowledge leads you to the wrong ad hominem conclusion again. The Bible says that we are to be like Jesus. And Jesus said that those who follow Him will be hated by the world because the world first hated Him. So there you go.

      And you believed you are Jesus like? Really!? When you posted the reference, it came off as really repelling because there is close to little similarities as projected by your posts.

      For the last time, ad hominem is for logical fallacy and I'm not even arguing a point. I know you are just using such words to sound authorative or impressive but it made you look stupid and exposed lack of proper understanding of the term.
      I'm plainly questioning your intergrity and ego comparing yourself to Jesus. To me it is really insulting to my Jesus.

      Edited by Aneslayer 15 Jul `12, 2:39PM
  • Jacky Woo's Avatar
    1,543 posts since Nov '10
    • Originally posted by BroInChrist:


      Again a lack of Bible knowledge leads you to the wrong ad hominem conclusion again. The Bible says that we are to be like Jesus. And Jesus said that those who follow Him will be hated by the world because the world first hated Him. So there you go.

      self delusion knows no bounds.

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Aneslayer:

      And you believed you are Jesus like? Really!? When you posted the reference, it came off as really repelling because there is close to little similarities as projected by your posts.

      For the last time, ad hominem is for logical fallacy and I'm not even arguing a point. I know you are just using such words to sound authorative or impressive but it made you look stupid and exposed lack of proper understanding of the term.
      I'm plainly questioning your intergrity and ego comparing yourself to Jesus. To me it is really insulting to my Jesus.


      Obviously your "Jesus" is not the Jesus depicted in the Bible. Had Jesus been with us today and said the things He said you would have had Him nailed just as well. Jesus said things that would make the atheists squirm and claimed things about Himself that would have you throw all your ad hominem retorts and insults at Him. Go reflect on it more by reading the Gospels and ask yourself honestly whether your "Jesus" bears any resemblance or similarities to Jesus in the Bible.

      Also your views and opinions about me is irrelevant and is worthless. The servant is judged by his master. God is my judge, not you.

      Edited by BroInChrist 15 Jul `12, 3:46PM
  • Aneslayer's Avatar
    1,511 posts since May '11
    • *evades strawman, appeal to authority, appeal to intimidation* What makes you think you have similarities to the Jesus you believed makes me wonder? I'm only concerned that people are repelling Jesus by the likes of you. This is in the open. I'll keep on pointing to your un-Jesus likeness.

      Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

      Edited by Aneslayer 15 Jul `12, 4:17PM
  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by despondent:

      Although I am Christian, I try not to use the bible too much when discussing wif non believers. I see it tis way: If I am the accuse in the court, would the judge trust my testimony if I am the only witness, only defence got myself? However, when testimonies of other ppl comes in, wad they say makes better evidence.

      No matter how true the bible may be, a non believer of it wil not be open to the bible defence of itself. But when we use nature n daily living as explanations n evidences, the non believers can relate better cos nature n daily living r there for everyone to see n validate. after seeing from the natural, then I will show tat the bible also said the same thing but recorded thousands of yrs ago...

      Yhe above though is my own opinions n approach...


      Thanks for sharing your approach. Actually that was pretty much my approach until recent years. I came to the understanding in Acts 17 that Paul reasoned from the Scripturea. Even in his preaching in Athens Paul spoke about things that were found in the Scriptures.

      Consider the analogy of martial arts. In most Chinese kungfu movies you would have pugilists claiming that their skills are the best. How does one prove it to be so except by sparring with another? Would it make sense for the challenger to say, "Look, you clamed to be the best but I don't share your belief. Why don't you set asode your skills and engage me in a fight?" In the same way I would not set aside the Bible in order to reason with the nonbeliever. Why grant the presuppositions of the nonbeliever while setting aside mine? As a weapon I should use my Sword of the Spirit to demolish and cut down the arguments against the faith, regardless of whether my opponent has a high regard for it. His weapon is his human reasoning but mine is divine revelation.

      Thus the atheistic worldview would spar against the Biblocal worldview and I am confident and certain that the Biblical worldview would prevail. Evidence is certainly important, but evidence do not speak for itself but must be interpreted. And interpretation is again influenced by one's worldview.

  • Jacky Woo's Avatar
    1,543 posts since Nov '10
  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:


      10 questions Christians must answer is nothing compared to 10 questions atheists CANNOT answer.

      1. What was in the beginning?

      2. How will life on earth end?

      3. What happens after death?

      4. What is the purpose of existence?

      5. Why there is order in all of creation?

      6. Why there is morality in every civilization? 

      7. Why does every civilization believe in a Creator?

      8. Why does every sane person have a conscience, even when it is not dictated by society?

      9. How did nothing create everything?

      10. Which came first--the chicken or the egg?

  • Aneslayer's Avatar
    1,511 posts since May '11
  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Aneslayer:

      Jesus can answer any questions.


      Of course He can. But He did not answer every question posed to Him. I suppose you did not know that ya? Read your Gospels and see for yourself.

  • Jacky Woo's Avatar
    1,543 posts since Nov '10
  • Aneslayer's Avatar
    1,511 posts since May '11
    • Jesus answers. He did not evade answers questions for he is the word. He answers in his ways.

      Edited by Aneslayer 15 Jul `12, 5:43PM
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