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Dilemma NTU/NUS

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  • Bluepop's Avatar
    19 posts since Mar '14
    • Hi, anyone care to share whats the workload like under the accountancy programmes in the two uni? Heard that there will also be a compulsory overseas exposure for NUS BBA but am not looking to work in an overseas company in future, so is NTU a btr choice? 

      How are the lessons conducted in the two uni (preferably under biz sch) i.e. the school hours etc? And the culture e.g. the ppl, language mostly spoken, attitude when studying? Furthermore, coming frm a perspective of a poly student with a gpa of 3.77 (below their 10th percentile trolol), will we be able to cope with the workload in this programme esp since my english aint that great and with the lvl of competitiveness now compared to in Poly since we are competing with international students and JC students who score very well ?

       Anothet factor is that am not planning to stay in their hostel but living in Bedok means long hours or ride to sch. However, also prefer tr 3 yrs direct honour programme in NTU. 

      Going NS soon but the dilemma and queries is thr, which is btr ? Thanks everyone! Would like to clear my mind before going to NS for the next two years :)

       

  • qdtimes2's Avatar
    255 posts since Jun '09
    • Refer to the comments in https://www.nuswhispers.com/confession/33180. 

      NTU Biz/Acct programme is more focused on its own curriculum, since it's 3 years direct honors. On the other hand, NUS Biz/Acct Programme has more space for you to take up other subjects/modules for general education. 

      If you are not looking forward to student life, want to quickly get into the working world and have a slightly stronger resume for accoutant jobs, NTU 3-years direct honors is obviously the better and economically wiser choice.

      Because of this fact, the demand for NTU Biz/Acct course is higher and the competition will obviously  be steeper. However, this does not mean that NUS is all-friendly; the competition is strong as well. 

       

      Additional replies to your post:

      1) Overseas exposure: going for overseas exposure does not necessarily mean that you have to work in overseas companies. Overseas exposure is a sign of experience in terms of building good foreign relationships, and indepdence. It is not uncommon that companies send employees overseas for some work purposes.

      2) You have to be adequately proficient in English whether you are in NTU or NUS.

      3) Accept NTU first. You can change your mind 1 or 2 years later, although the tuition fees will be significantly higher by then.

      4) Even if you are not looking forward to staying in halls/hostels, you should still apply it first and try it for 1 year. Who knows if army might change your mindset too. 

  • Bluepop's Avatar
    19 posts since Mar '14
    • Originally posted by qdtimes2:

      Refer to the comments in https://www.nuswhispers.com/confession/33180. 

      NTU Biz/Acct programme is more focused on its own curriculum, since it's 3 years direct honors. On the other hand, NUS Biz/Acct Programme has more space for you to take up other subjects/modules for general education. 

      If you are not looking forward to student life, want to quickly get into the working world and have a slightly stronger resume for accoutant jobs, NTU 3-years direct honors is obviously the better and economically wiser choice.

      Because of this fact, the demand for NTU Biz/Acct course is higher and the competition will obviously  be steeper. However, this does not mean that NUS is all-friendly; the competition is strong as well. 

       

      Additional replies to your post:

      1) Overseas exposure: going for overseas exposure does not necessarily mean that you have to work in overseas companies. Overseas exposure is a sign of experience in terms of building good foreign relationships, and indepdence. It is not uncommon that companies send employees overseas for some work purposes.

      2) You have to be adequately proficient in English whether you are in NTU or NUS.

      3) Accept NTU first. You can change your mind 1 or 2 years later, although the tuition fees will be significantly higher by then.

      4) Even if you are not looking forward to staying in halls/hostels, you should still apply it first and try it for 1 year. Who knows if army might change your mindset too. 

      Hey! Thanks for the comparison!

      But to lay things clear, i was having a difficult time choosing between NUS and NTU because I studied Accountancy in Temasek Poly beforehand but i realised I would like to try out Tax or maybe even the Finance Dept in future, which was why I couldnt decide on which programme in take in which of the uni. So having said that, would u suggest that NUS is a btr choice?

      On the side note, yes im sure i would change my mind aft NS haha but I do knw I cant concentrate with noises arnd the hall.

      Anyw u mention that NTU is more competitive due to the higher intake, but the indicative grade profile under NUS is higher? Why is ths so? Does that mean that ppl who enter Biz Acct in NUS is mostly frm those good JCs like Raffles, HCI etc?

  • qdtimes2's Avatar
    255 posts since Jun '09
    • Originally posted by Bluepop:

      Hey! Thanks for the comparison!

      But to lay things clear, i was having a difficult time choosing between NUS and NTU because I studied Accountancy in Temasek Poly beforehand but i realised I would like to try out Tax or maybe even the Finance Dept in future, which was why I couldnt decide on which programme in take in which of the uni. So having said that, would u suggest that NUS is a btr choice?

      On the side note, yes im sure i would change my mind aft NS haha but I do knw I cant concentrate with noises arnd the hall.

      Anyw u mention that NTU is more competitive due to the higher intake, but the indicative grade profile under NUS is higher? Why is ths so? Does that mean that ppl who enter Biz Acct in NUS is mostly frm those good JCs like Raffles, HCI etc?

      You basically learn stuffs in NUS and NTU Biz/Acct. Going under Accountancy does not mean that you cannot go to Finance. In fact, it is not uncommon that students realise that they do want to do accounting & auditing etc, or work in Big 4. 

      Why is NUS IGP for NUS Biz/Acct higher? I'm not sure but it is likely because NUS Biz/Act has significantly less placing available for students. If you look at the placings available in NTU AY2016-2017, there are actually about 600 placings each LOL. (http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/oad2/website_files/IGP/NTU_IGP.pdf) I seriously doubt NUS has that many vacancies. Probably at most around 200 for each Biz and Acct.  In here, I want to point out that IGP is not a good indication of competitiveness and "smartness". It WILL be competitive at NTU and NUS. Almost everyone is academically inclined (regardless RI/HCI or other JCs), and are hungry for good grades amidst the bell curve. 

      *** I forgot to mention this, but NUS also has implemented two new systems recently. 

      1) The first year is grade-free for all students: they can just ignore the grade of whichever module they want.

      2) The 5-pillar system for people not in the USP(scholars programme). For two of the pillars, students are must take 2 modules: Quantitative Reasoning and Asking Questions. In my opinion, this is a poor policy. Why must students be forced to take certain modules that are not requisites of any other modules? Furthermore, I strongly doubt their worthiness even though I have not taken them before. Quantitative Reasoning is about learning Statistics and using Statistics to support information. Asking Questions is likely about introducing you to critical thinking. 

      It is bizarre why students are forced to take up Quantitative Reasoning. You don't nee d this to know how to use basic Statistics, there are other introductory modules on Statistics to do that. Some majors are to take their own modules that teaches basic Statistics as well, so it will be like learning the same kind of stuffs again. Some majors don't even require Statistics.

      Nobody has taken Asking Questions module yet but I'm highly skeptical about the depth it offers (the module description admits the limit of time), and I am confident that my peers know how to think well enough.  If it is indeed true that the module contents are basic, and that students know how to think well enough, then the module provides no educational value. Although you may see people make stupid and senseless statements, it's more like because they don't practise thinking. However, you don't need to take a module to practise it. 

      Some reviews for Quantitative Reasoning: https://nusmods.com/modules/GER1000 

      You may find some reviews for the Biz/Acct modules too.


  • Bluepop's Avatar
    19 posts since Mar '14
    • Originally posted by qdtimes2:

      You basically learn stuffs in NUS and NTU Biz/Acct. Going under Accountancy does not mean that you cannot go to Finance. In fact, it is not uncommon that students realise that they do want to do accounting & auditing etc, or work in Big 4. 

      Why is NUS IGP for NUS Biz/Acct higher? I'm not sure but it is likely because NUS Biz/Act has significantly less placing available for students. If you look at the placings available in NTU AY2016-2017, there are actually about 600 placings each LOL. (http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/oad2/website_files/IGP/NTU_IGP.pdf) I seriously doubt NUS has that many vacancies. Probably at most around 200 for each Biz and Acct.  In here, I want to point out that IGP is not a good indication of competitiveness and "smartness". It WILL be competitive at NTU and NUS. Almost everyone is academically inclined (regardless RI/HCI or other JCs), and are hungry for good grades amidst the bell curve. 

      *** I forgot to mention this, but NUS also has implemented two new systems recently. 

      1) The first year is grade-free for all students: they can just ignore the grade of whichever module they want.

      2) The 5-pillar system for people not in the USP(scholars programme). For two of the pillars, students are must take 2 modules: Quantitative Reasoning and Asking Questions. In my opinion, this is a poor policy. Why must students be forced to take certain modules that are not requisites of any other modules? Furthermore, I strongly doubt their worthiness even though I have not taken them before. Quantitative Reasoning is about learning Statistics and using Statistics to support information. Asking Questions is likely about introducing you to critical thinking. 

      It is bizarre why students are forced to take up Quantitative Reasoning. You don't nee d this to know how to use basic Statistics, there are other introductory modules on Statistics to do that. Some majors are to take their own modules that teaches basic Statistics as well, so it will be like learning the same kind of stuffs again. Some majors don't even require Statistics.

      Nobody has taken Asking Questions module yet but I'm highly skeptical about the depth it offers (the module description admits the limit of time), and I am confident that my peers know how to think well enough.  If it is indeed true that the module contents are basic, and that students know how to think well enough, then the module provides no educational value. Although you may see people make stupid and senseless statements, it's more like because they don't practise thinking. However, you don't need to take a module to practise it. 

      Some reviews for Quantitative Reasoning: https://nusmods.com/modules/GER1000 

      You may find some reviews for the Biz/Acct modules too.


      Thanks load once again! 

      I actually accepted NTU so far but would still like to consider the pros and cons between ntu and nus haha

      Just some pending queries..

      If an accounting student takes up NUS biz/acct, does it dilute the fact that they are an accounting student since NUS Biz/acct is more of a biz degree with an extended segment to accounting? What are the difference in employment opportunity it might caused compared to someone from NTU Acct going towards working in a Big 4 company e.g. Tax dept? Is it rly that many companies have a preference for NTU grad (in the case of NTU acct vs NUS Biz/Acct)?

       

      Edited by Bluepop 29 May `17, 1:12AM
    • Originally posted by qdtimes2:

      You basically learn stuffs in NUS and NTU Biz/Acct. Going under Accountancy does not mean that you cannot go to Finance. In fact, it is not uncommon that students realise that they do want to do accounting & auditing etc, or work in Big 4. 

      Why is NUS IGP for NUS Biz/Acct higher? I'm not sure but it is likely because NUS Biz/Act has significantly less placing available for students. If you look at the placings available in NTU AY2016-2017, there are actually about 600 placings each LOL. (http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/oad2/website_files/IGP/NTU_IGP.pdf) I seriously doubt NUS has that many vacancies. Probably at most around 200 for each Biz and Acct.  In here, I want to point out that IGP is not a good indication of competitiveness and "smartness". It WILL be competitive at NTU and NUS. Almost everyone is academically inclined (regardless RI/HCI or other JCs), and are hungry for good grades amidst the bell curve. 

      *** I forgot to mention this, but NUS also has implemented two new systems recently. 

      1) The first year is grade-free for all students: they can just ignore the grade of whichever module they want.

      2) The 5-pillar system for people not in the USP(scholars programme). For two of the pillars, students are must take 2 modules: Quantitative Reasoning and Asking Questions. In my opinion, this is a poor policy. Why must students be forced to take certain modules that are not requisites of any other modules? Furthermore, I strongly doubt their worthiness even though I have not taken them before. Quantitative Reasoning is about learning Statistics and using Statistics to support information. Asking Questions is likely about introducing you to critical thinking. 

      It is bizarre why students are forced to take up Quantitative Reasoning. You don't nee d this to know how to use basic Statistics, there are other introductory modules on Statistics to do that. Some majors are to take their own modules that teaches basic Statistics as well, so it will be like learning the same kind of stuffs again. Some majors don't even require Statistics.

      Nobody has taken Asking Questions module yet but I'm highly skeptical about the depth it offers (the module description admits the limit of time), and I am confident that my peers know how to think well enough.  If it is indeed true that the module contents are basic, and that students know how to think well enough, then the module provides no educational value. Although you may see people make stupid and senseless statements, it's more like because they don't practise thinking. However, you don't need to take a module to practise it. 

      Some reviews for Quantitative Reasoning: https://nusmods.com/modules/GER1000 

      You may find some reviews for the Biz/Acct modules too.


      Pardon me if i asked on the behalf of my gf who is matriculating in NUS biz admin (acct) this Aug instead! icon_wink.gif

      NUS Biz/Acct:

      1) Under the bidding system, what if we do not get the module we want esp if it is a core module? Is there actually a fixed list of core modules etc that we must take and the planning of when to take up will be up to us through bidding as long as we read and pass before we graduate?

      2) Under the BBA curriculum 2017, what does the direct honour mean? Isit something same as NTU 3year direct honour or do we still takes up 4 yrs? 

      3) Isit ok to graduate w/o an honour in NUS Biz/Acct? Whats the impact (i.e. employment, worthiness of the normal degree)?

      4) Under BBA curriculum 2017, there is a compulsory global immersion. What does it mean? As in must it bea semester aboard or it can be just a short study trip (e.g. 1 or 2 weeks)?What if we do not want? Can we opt out even though its compulsory?

      5) Whats the workload, class participation and sch hours like in NTU Acct and NUS biz/acct? Which is easier which is more stressful?

      Anyw additional qns...

      U mentioned the grade free first year, so it wont be calculated into the gpa right? What abt the 20MCs of S/U for poly students? In the case if someone choose to go on SEP whereby grades are also not calculated into the gpa, along with the S/U and grade free first year, isnt the gpa for a NUS graduate definitely going to be very high even though they didnt rly score well in many modules? It might seems good for their final CGPA, but how is it gonna benefit them when they are finding work since no grades will be reflected on the transcript for many modules?

  • qdtimes2's Avatar
    255 posts since Jun '09
    • There is almost no preference in employment aspects between NUS and NTU biz/acct grad.

      -----

      1) I'm not a NUS biz/acct student so I'm not sure if they pre-allocate core modules for NUS biz/acct students. Even if there is no pre-allocation, the priority of vacancies go to them. Final resort is appealing, which is typically successfully since they are your core modules. It follows that if there is no pre-allocation, you will have to plan when you want to take these core modules; but it's typical that there is no much space for you to be flexible mainly because the core modules are typically pre-requisites to the higher elective modules (so you have to take in year 1 and year 2 accordingly, and to which one of the semester they are offered). It's better to ask a senior if your gf is joining the orientation camp.

      If you are outbidded for a non-core module: most likely too bad. Sometimes, you can expect a successful bidder to drop the module and you can replace this person in Round 3. Final resort: appeal. Appeal likely fails if the class truly has no vacancies left (by means of lecture seats, tutorial slots and available tutors). 

      2) NUS Direct honors simply that you automatically enrolled to the honors programme in the 4th year regardless of your grades, same as to Computing and Engineering students. Science students have a minimum CAP to meet if they want to do honors. For Arts students, honors programme is also optional for their 4th year. If you are really looking forward to completing honors in 3 years, you can study like crazy and take extra modules for a few semesters and find those that fit into the timetable.

      3) These days, an honors degree is still more valued. For some jobs, especially in the government sector, the starting pay, pay increment and promotion opportunities are determined by honors->2nd upper/1st class -> 2nd lower. However, if the non-honors route is chosen, it is more economic if you do still find a good job, or if you cannot tolerate the student life than working life.

      4) I cannot answer for this one. 

      5) Neither have I experience for their workload. But I do know that their lessons, tutorials can take up only 2 days in a week if they plan properly. In exchange, they allocate some of the remaining time for project work. NUS seems to have slightly higher emphasis on projects/participations/presentations. Ultimately, I don't know which is harder for NTU or NUS.

      6) Grade-free is optional. You get an A, you keep the A. If you are unhappy with a B+, you simply choose not to keep it. SEP indeed does gives them another semester of free grades. AKA total 3 semesters + 3 non-prerequisite modules of free grade, out of 8 semesters. This is a convenient way of retaining CAP. Many employers don't really look at your transcript anyway (they look at the CAP still), unless you fail a module, or unless you are applying for an academia job.

      Edited by qdtimes2 29 May `17, 1:33PM
  • Bluepop's Avatar
    19 posts since Mar '14
    • Originally posted by qdtimes2:

      There is almost no preference in employment aspects between NUS and NTU biz/acct grad.

      -----

      1) I'm not a NUS biz/acct student so I'm not sure if they pre-allocate core modules for NUS biz/acct students. Even if there is no pre-allocation, the priority of vacancies go to them. Final resort is appealing, which is typically successfully since they are your core modules. It follows that if there is no pre-allocation, you will have to plan when you want to take these core modules; but it's typical that there is no much space for you to be flexible mainly because the core modules are typically pre-requisites to the higher elective modules (so you have to take in year 1 and year 2 accordingly, and to which one of the semester they are offered). It's better to ask a senior if your gf is joining the orientation camp.

      If you are outbidded for a non-core module: most likely too bad. Sometimes, you can expect a successful bidder to drop the module and you can replace this person in Round 3. Final resort: appeal. Appeal likely fails if the class truly has no vacancies left (by means of lecture seats, tutorial slots and available tutors). 

      2) NUS Direct honors simply that you automatically enrolled to the honors programme in the 4th year regardless of your grades, same as to Computing and Engineering students. Science students have a minimum CAP to meet if they want to do honors. For Arts students, honors programme is also optional for their 4th year. If you are really looking forward to completing honors in 3 years, you can study like crazy and take extra modules for a few semesters and find those that fit into the timetable.

      3) These days, an honors degree is still more valued. For some jobs, especially in the government sector, the starting pay, pay increment and promotion opportunities are determined by honors->2nd upper/1st class -> 2nd lower. However, if the non-honors route is chosen, it is more economic if you do still find a good job, or if you cannot tolerate the student life than working life.

      4) I cannot answer for this one. 

      5) Neither have I experience for their workload. But I do know that their lessons, tutorials can take up only 2 days in a week if they plan properly. In exchange, they allocate some of the remaining time for project work. NUS seems to have slightly higher emphasis on projects/participations/presentations. Ultimately, I don't know which is harder for NTU or NUS.

      6) Grade-free is optional. You get an A, you keep the A. If you are unhappy with a B+, you simply choose not to keep it. SEP indeed does gives them another semester of free grades. AKA total 3 semesters + 3 non-prerequisite modules of free grade, out of 8 semesters. This is a convenient way of retaining CAP. Many employers don't really look at your transcript anyway (they look at the CAP still), unless you fail a module, or unless you are applying for an academia job.

      job.

      Great help from you! I guessed its rly true that employer focus more on CGPA as we usually put them in our resume..

      This makes me rethink if the grade free system under NUS will helped me more in the future when looking for a job (in the long run) due to the seemingly higher chance of getting a better CGPA although im still definitely attracted to the 3 year direct honour offered in NTU bcos of the faster route and its specific degree rather than a general one

      Just one concern regarding the % of students who can graduate with a first class, second upper class and second lower class honour, pass with merit as well as only a pass with just a normal degree (is it true if CGPA below 3.0, u will not get the honour in NTU acct?) Seen somewhr that arnd 40% (arnd 250 ppl?) of the NTU Acct graduate only managed to get a normal degree (w/o honour) whereas only 2% (arnd less than 15 ppl?) managed to obtain a first class honour. Is it rly that competitive? If thats the case isnt NUS a btr choice now with its direct honour as well as their free grading system although it was said to focus alot on class participation, projects etc (which some could choose to ignore the importance and S/U it if the overall result turns out bad)?

      Edited by Bluepop 29 May `17, 9:36PM
  • qdtimes2's Avatar
    255 posts since Jun '09
    • Originally posted by Bluepop:

      Great help from you! I guessed its rly true that employer focus more on CGPA as we usually put them in our resume..

      This makes me rethink if the grade free system under NUS will helped me more in the future when looking for a job (in the long run) due to the seemingly higher chance of getting a better CGPA although im still definitely attracted to the 3 year direct honour offered in NTU bcos of the faster route and its specific degree rather than a general one

      Just one concern regarding the % of students who can graduate with a first class, second upper class and second lower class honour, pass with merit as well as only a pass with just a normal degree (is it true if CGPA below 3.0, u will not get the honour in NTU acct?) Seen somewhr that arnd 40% (arnd 250 ppl?) of the NTU Acct graduate only managed to get a normal degree (w/o honour) whereas only 2% (arnd less than 15 ppl?) managed to obtain a first class honour. Is it rly that competitive? If thats the case isnt NUS a btr choice now with its direct honour as well as their free grading system although it was said to focus alot on class participation, projects etc (which some could choose to ignore the importance and S/U it if the overall result turns out bad)?

      In case you are misunderstanding, there is no fixed % as to how many people can get 1st class/2nd upper/2nd lower. But there is bell curve for each module, if the class size is large enough (I'd say more than 30 or 40 students). So, in a way, the NTU biz/acct students will face each other in a lot of common modules. 

      I don't know where you got those numbers from but I highly doubt they are legitimate. NTU 3 years programme is also a direct honors programme, and it's already ridiculous to say that 40% chose to drop out of honors when the prize is just right in front of them. If it was too stressful for them, they could have extended 1 more year to complete their honors. 

      To get 1st class honors, you need to have minimum 4.5 CAP/GPA, which is average A-. I reckon that 25% of students get A- and above in a module typically (could be less). 2% seems more like the number of people who gets the A+ grade.

      NUS free-grade system is definitely advantageous but keep in mind that you have to take more electives (although who knows maybe you can do well in these modules or even enjoy them).

      Edited by qdtimes2 29 May `17, 11:56PM
    • Originally posted by qdtimes2:

      In case you are misunderstanding, there is no fixed % as to how many people can get 1st class/2nd upper/2nd lower. But there is bell curve for each module, if the class size is large enough (I'd say more than 30 or 40 students). So, in a way, the NTU biz/acct students will face each other in a lot of common modules. 

      I don't know where you got those numbers from but I highly doubt they are legitimate. NTU 3 years programme is also a direct honors programme, and it's already ridiculous to say that 40% chose to drop out of honors when the prize is just right in front of them. If it was too stressful for them, they could have extended 1 more year to complete their honors. 

      To get 1st class honors, you need to have minimum 4.5 CAP/GPA, which is average A-. I reckon that 25% of students get A- and above in a module typically (could be less). 2% seems more like the number of people who gets the A+ grade. The bell curve can be arbituary depending on the class size and prof's likings. In an undesirable scenario, for instance, I have heard that 30% of the people failed (less than grade D) for a certain engineering module in NUS.

      NUS free-grade system is definitely advantageous but keep in mind that you have to take more electives (although who knows maybe you can do well in these modules or even enjoy them).

       

  • Tactical Boots's Avatar
    11 posts since May '17
  • Ivankoh 97's Avatar
    4 posts since Aug '17
  • Caleocj's Avatar
    10 posts since Aug '17
  • SERENELAM's Avatar
    10 posts since Aug '17
    • Personaally i would say ntu. i heard theres shuttle bus in the morning from tamp to ntu so distance isnt that much of a problem?

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