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Why christians cannot take joss stick?

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  • Haven's Avatar
    482 posts since Apr '03
    • Originally posted by trlnlty:
      the holding of a joss stick has no meaning whatsoever, it is the act of worshiping another being

      Ohhh? That's by your own knowledge?

  • marlboro's Avatar
    722 posts since Jul '02
    • Originally posted by trlnlty:
      ok, lets clear some things up.
      firstly, the 10 commandments states that
      'thou shall have no other God's before me'
      'thou shall no bow down before any other God'

      so obviously, when you pay your respects, in this case burning joss sticks and bowing down before the alter, you are bowing down before someone and this is not right, as you cannot pray/worship/etc anyone else. (bowing down to a teacher is different, before you retort. why because you do not worship not treat your teacher as a higher power but someone who is older and more knowledgable than you)

      a christian can certainly pay their last respects, going to the funeral ? or even walking past the coffin?

      i hope that this answers your questions about christians not touching other peoples religion.

      But the case now is this. They DO bow before the altar, and they DO wear those(dunno what it is called in english) funeral clothings.. Jus no joss sticks? Why?

  • trlnlty's Avatar
    3,570 posts since May '02
    • Originally posted by Haven:
      Ohhh? That's by your own knowledge?

      eh.... the joss stick has no meaning, it's just a piece of wood ( is it?)

  • nismoS132's Avatar
    14,922 posts since Jan '02
    • Originally posted by Haven:
      Do you know the [b]true implications of holding joss sticks?
      Do you know what religious significant does joss stick have?
      [/b]

      d00d offering joss sticks to a dead guy isn't exactly offering your soul to the devil. it's like giving oranges to an old guy, except this old guy is dead, and your oranges are big long asthma causing thingies.

  • marlboro's Avatar
    722 posts since Jul '02
    • Originally posted by Haven:
      Ohhh? That's by your own knowledge?

      Maybe u think u have a better understanding/explaination of it then?

  • trlnlty's Avatar
    3,570 posts since May '02
    • Originally posted by marlboro:
      But the case now is this. They DO bow before the altar, and they DO wear those(dunno what it is called in english) funeral clothings.. Jus no joss sticks? Why?

      sorry i dont get your question?

    • Originally posted by Haven:
      Ohhh? That's by your own knowledge?

      think you should chill on the patronizing attitude also.

  • gasband's Avatar
    6,416 posts since Sep '02
    • Originally posted by marlboro:
      I can see ur point. However, when u say that u "believe its not right to just blindly follow tradtion." My thought is that "it is not right to just blindly follow religion". This is wat cases Jihad nonsense.

      Forgive me if I sound nasty. I would like to find out WHY this religion enforces such a rule. Is it to show that they are the "supreme" religion n they show no respect to the other religions? Is it that they dun "believe" in the other religions other than themselves? Are they afraid of being burned by fire or choked by the smoke?

      I mean I can understand things like "thou shall not steal/kill" or watsoever cos it make sense to me. But not to touch other religion things? Whats the logic behind it? In my personal opinion, its jus project to me an image that I'm stuck-up, I'm always rite, I'm the only one that matters. Forgive me if any Christians are offended, but prove me otherwise.

      Ok lets be clear on the issues here. Is that do you agree that whether a person holds joss sticks or not, it cannot represent whether that person love the dead party?

      If you agree to that, then there is meaning to answer your questions.

      Just as some people believe that burning joss sticks or joss paper is to help the person in hell and to so call 'Chao Du', in my christian faith I believe that all these things are done in vain becos they will never reach the dead person. There are no proof that it reach hell to the dead party, of cos you could say that there is no proof that it doesnt reach. Since both of us have no proof, cant we find it in our hearts to understand if sides are being taken?

      The bible exhort us to 'let the dead buried the dead.", not as to disrespect the dead but to move on with our lives, because what you can do for the dead. Nothing. It whats you do when they are living is crucial. That is what I believe.

      It is ok if you do not as i said, but understand why we do not hold joss sticks. Of cos, just as some follow tradition blindly, there are christians who just dun hold joss sticks because they are 'CHRISTIANS'. I understand that kind of attitude will irk you. But there are many christians out there who unnderstand and are convicted in their hearts the reason. I am sure you could find it in your heart to respect that belief becos the love they have in their hearts may be far greater than you ever know.

      God bless.

  • marlboro's Avatar
    722 posts since Jul '02
    • Originally posted by trlnlty:
      sorry i dont get your question?

      My question is jus why they arent allowed to offer joss sticks..?? It isn't exactly any religious implications to it rite?

      Edited by marlboro 06 May `03, 2:42AM
  • Haven's Avatar
    482 posts since Apr '03
    • Originally posted by trlnlty:
      eh.... the joss stick has no meaning, it's just a piece of wood ( is it?)

      Mate...joss stick is a form of worship to idols. The incense and implications are smiliar to the incense of worship in OT. The fragrant and smoke.

      Just that it's offered differently.

      Edited by Haven 06 May `03, 2:45AM
  • trlnlty's Avatar
    3,570 posts since May '02
    • Originally posted by marlboro:
      My question is jus why they arent allowed to offer joss sticks..?? It isn't exactly a form of worship rite as u said so urself??

      well, you are bowing/kneeling down right?
      are you praying ? i dont know

  • marlboro's Avatar
    722 posts since Jul '02
    • well, guess i’ll not get an answer to this 1 anytime soon… good nite ppl.. thanks for ur time n comments

  • nismoS132's Avatar
    14,922 posts since Jan '02
  • trlnlty's Avatar
    3,570 posts since May '02
    • Originally posted by Haven:
      Mate...joss stick is a form of worship to idols. The incense and implications are smiliar to the incense of worship in OT. The fragrant and smoke.

      Just that it's differently.

      i get what you mean, i'm just saying that the joss stick in it's PHYSICAL state has no meaning. a christian can be a worker who transports joss sticks from ware house a to ware house b right. it's his job.

    • Originally posted by nismoS132:
      paying your respects isn't worship.

      but there are other ways of paying your respect right.
      i can remember the dead person in my heart?
      send flowers?
      send a card?

    • anyway i'm out too...
      this will be a 6 page thread by the time i wake up tomorrow

  • xian89's Avatar
    7,683 posts since Feb '03
    • by holding a joss stick , christian believe tat by doing so, u r worshipping other gods. tis is forbid.

  • Xiaosa's Avatar
    142 posts since Feb '02
    • Let's say it in another way. One of ur love ones passed away. U were holding a Christian funeral. But none of ur relatives or friends will attend the ceremony becos their religion does not allow them to . How will u feel .

      I guess the words I am trying to tell everyone. Flexbility and tolerance.

      Originally posted by gasband:
      I understand your frustrations about this matter because I was chased out of the house 10 years ago precisely of this matter. Now i am back in my house with my parents and relatives understanding of why I did not offer joss sticks to my grandma.

      I was my grandma favorite grandson (makes me a greater sinner, you must think.). 10 years ago on Ching Ming, my mother wanted me to offer joss sticks to my grandma whom passed away when I was 10 years old. I refused to stating that while I love my grandma, i dun believe that offering joss sticks is needed to show my love and that i believe its not right to just blindly follow tradtion.

      That was the final straw for my parents. I was a 6 month old christian then. They called up all my relatives and they came to my house scolding me and finally it resulted in my mum taking my bibles out and burnt them away in front of me and labelling me a black sheep. I felt very hurt because do they think they love my grandma more than I do? I love my grandma more than I loved anyone else. I told them right in front, I said exactly the same things in Mandarin "If 2nd aunt (she was very unfillial to my grandparents while grandma is alive) and me were to stand before ah ma's altar. I do not carry joss-sticks and 2nd aunt carried. ANd if ah ma was to appear, you all can ask her, who love her more, me without the joss-sticks or her with the joss-sticks."

      My relatives were dumbstruck cos they knew I do love my grandma alot but I wanted to tell them that my love and respect for her cant be expressed thru 3 joss sticks. To say that I am unfillial because of 3 joss-sticks is a total insult to my grandma and my love for her. I think they understood me, because my grandpa stood out and say that I am right and my parents should not pursue the matter any more.

      I am still the only christian in my whole family, but I am glad I put across a point to them that I do not believe in doing things for people to see after they die, I rather do things for them while they are still alive.

      Hope you understand but I am cool if you do not.

      God bless.
  • gasband's Avatar
    6,416 posts since Sep '02
    • As I had mentioned, the joss sticks by itself are harmless. But it is the compromise of my beliefs if i hold it and offer it. Ask any devout taoists and you would know the many meanings of burning joss sticks and joss papers. In other words, it concerns the spiritual side of our life and in short those meanings are in direct conflict with my beliefs. So, by offering a joss stick, I by my actions am endorsing that those meanings are right, which I do not think so. I hope this helps.

  • Haven's Avatar
    482 posts since Apr '03
  • gasband's Avatar
    6,416 posts since Sep '02
    • Originally posted by Xiaosa:
      Let's say it in another way. One of ur love ones passed away. U were holding a Christian funeral. But none of ur relatives or friends will attend the ceremony becos their religion does not allow them to . How will u feel .

      I guess the words I am trying to tell everyone. Flexbility and tolerance.

      I am sorry but i do attend funerals of all religions. I never say dun attend, just that we dun participate in rites that we dun believe in. Just like when you come to christians furneral, when there are singing of hymns or songs, it is perfectly ok for you to sit around and not participate in it.

    • Just in case, burning incense is a custom passed down from ancient worshiping rituals. When the ancient Chinese rendered cults to God and ancestors, they usually burned their sacrifices or simply certain plants to make heavy smoke, thinking that they could communicate with spirits through the smoke. Having evolved gradually and been popularized later, such a practice has become a way of showing respect for spirits by burning incense. But the incense of later ages was improved, and some fine incense produced specially for venerating spirits appeared, including some types of incense spread in from India and Iran, etc. The most common types at present include single incense and winded incense.

      Now in short you can understand why i do not offer joss sticks.

      God bless.

  • Haven's Avatar
    482 posts since Apr '03
    • Originally posted by gasband:
      I am sorry but i do attend funerals of all religions. I never say dun attend, just that we dun participate in rites that we dun believe in. Just like when you come to christians furneral, when there are singing of hymns or songs, it is perfectly ok for you to sit around and not participate in it.

      I agree...i too attended funerals, friend's relatives or close ones or family of my own. (non christian)
      Well...it's about respect and the concern and comfort you want to give to family of the deceased.

  • Xcert's Avatar
    10,722 posts since Dec '01
    • Originally posted by marlboro:
      Just wan to know the reason behind it.

      why?
      ru xiang shui su...if U really think about it...it's just a matter of whether U want to do it or not... Rolling Eyes Laughing Mr. Green

  • X-men's Avatar
    13,150 posts since Dec '99
    • I'm not a Christian... I go Church if I was invited by my Christian friends. If they tried to talk me into becoming a christian, I will tell them if I want to I would have done it long ago so please respect me and they will back off.

      so the same thing, if Christians are not allowed to touch other religions offerings.... be it joss sticks or what so be it. They choose this belief and they have to live with it.

      I remember 1 incident which my ex gf told me (think I mentioned in the forum before):
      there's a day when a christian caming knocking on her door and asking her to go to her church (my ex is a Christian but she did not tell her) She was okay listening to her till she mentioned something like the Taoist are worshipping porcelain idol... immediately she told her "don't you christains worship a wodden cross too....." just before she slamp her door at her she told her "for you info I'm a christian too...."

      What I'm trying to say here is, each religion have it's own 'rules and regulations' we should try to respect these rules for each other so if your cousins choose to be a christian and not offer joss sticks to their late love ones.. so be it. repsect what they have choosen. Don't take it too hard... I believe they love your late grandfather just as much.

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