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  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • It may be just you. But the current flavour of the newly introduced services lean heavily towards shorter routes.

      This is in sync with the tune of hub-spoke and last-mile concepts. 

  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • I propose we have bus-stops every 30 metres because of the precedence that is distance between Clementi Interchange and the MRT bus-stop.

      Going by what you say, legs will no longer be needed as walking was not what was aimed for.


      That aside, it seems likely that this legacy issue will have to be resolved soon because the jam is extremely bad and the taxi stand directly behind contributes also to the jam.

      However, they seem to be expanding the bus-stop, who knows? Maybe they increased the size specifically for this issue (i.e. the services won't be removed).

      If dupdup's strange logic applies, we may as well make the HG Int services call at the 101/72/80/87 bus-stop as well as people should not be made to wait 2 min or walk 20 metres.

      Edited by SBS2601D 31 May `15, 10:45AM
  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • I have heard about the bad name that these people give, especially when they give endless "feedback" about these that. A lot of them contain a huge dose of self-righteousness and a number are rude.

      Spare a thought for the poor fellows who have to entertain you at LTA.

      It's not as though they have too little work especially now.

      Edited by SBS2601D 06 May `15, 11:11PM
  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • Originally posted by sgbuses:

      It is true that the competitive tendering model has no guarantee of being better. You are right that compliance involves costs, and there are risks involved in GCM (including bankrupcy and labour disruption). There is no shortage of literature out there arguging for and against this model.

      I am more inclined to think that all these changes are highly driven by national politics. Public transportation is one of the hottest political hot potato in the last election (and the most visible impact of Singapore's immigration policies), and the government probably felt the need to just something about it to placate the voters.

      In a way it's a political gamble, and so it will be very interesting to see how this eventually plays out.

      P.S. I don't like mytransport either. It gives me a lot less information than I could get out the previous publictransport.sg portal.

      Unfortunately mytransport will be THE land transport portal.

      As evidenced by the sheer amount of things stuffed into it.

      The saving grace however would be the new data mall, which allows developers to get hold of some critical data (such as bus routes) to develop minor spin-offs.

      Those who had learnt IT-related engineering stand to benefit from these recent events. The new systems such as the IBMS and beeline.sg are clear trends towards the use of big data in many of the public transport problems.

  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • Ya - there is no harm in rocking the boat now.

      And it isn't really like the PTOs will die. If anything, these incumbents have the advantage of having experience running the ops, as evidenced by them having the lowest bids for Bulim.

      They will also be happy (I may stand to be corrected), in being able to shake off the revenue risk and the need to hold (and think about) fixed assets.

      With the consolidation of the bus industry and the fact that the buses will be owned by LTA, LTA will have a significant clout over the bus manufacturers.

      From that perspective, it will certainly make sense now to rock the boat a bit by calling for new bus concepts. They can then learn better about what is good/possible, and call for appropriate tenders.

  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • Originally posted by SMB145B:

      ...omg what is wrong with you? i find you so funny lor. You know our govt is good at something. the 12.4m DD with lift is the main thing not the 23.5m bendy. lol

      Non-compliant bids are not funny.

      Imagine you are the project manager and you managed to smoke your bosses and really put a bendy up as proposal, which is eventually ruled as non-compliant by the Authority. 

      Are you prepared to face the music from your boss?

      If not, then you have zilch credibility and I have no qualms in being that slightly more rude.

      Edited by SBS2601D 06 May `15, 10:34PM
  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • My opinion is for LTA to stop the "we should not be operating buses but we know better than PTO" mantra.

      It is contradictory and counter-productive, especially at this transition point. The PTOs are not going to be particularly cooperative, and the public will suffer.

      Anybody noticed that with the upgrade to the bus arrival times to mytransport, the estimations have gotten even worse?

      My guess is that the data supply is now controlled by LTA. Not from PTOs, and the algorithms are not as correct as previously before.

      Will the PTOs help sort this out? I doubt it.

      I would like to see the industry nationalised - the true cost may become more transparent, and there would be less oddities such as having "packages" on this rather small island.

      And yes, GCM or nationalisation, the bus-fan hobby stuff will be dead very soon either way.

      And bendies will be gone. As simple as that. The signs have been there for so long.

      Edited by SBS2601D 06 May `15, 10:28PM
  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • Ya - if you hadn't scoured (I presume you had) GeBiz, then few if anybody at all, would have seen this.

      I can only say that LTA is getting increasingly aggressive in wresting control of the public transport industry back.

      But is competitive govt model the way to go forward? For all the talk about big govt being inefficient, people tend to forget that the cost price of the tender doesn't reflect the true cost of the model.

      The true cost actually includes: writing the tender, answering feedback, audits etc etc. These costs are borne by taxpayers eventually.

      These costs aren't reported obviously, which under-states the true cost of GCM, and over-hypes the supposed benefits of lean governance.

  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • Originally posted by JurongWestresident:

      just wondering. why must have mock-up? why not just do everything inside computer?

      I think got something to do with capacity. I think they want to see how many people can be inside the bus... how fast can alight, etcetera... 

      maybe they want to experiment seat layout, etcetera... 

      Simple - when they use computer to see your commuter pattern, you all say never get hand dirty.

      Now get hand dirty, you all will say wayang and too arrogant.

      Case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

      I may also add that the mock-up can be used for bus fans to give their hundred and one opinions. Can open up to public to touch and rub and poke and give comments ma.

      Wasn't that what good sgbuses had already mentioned in an earlier post??

      Sgbuses - I can never understand why you wanna share such tasty news nuggets to these people. Clearly they don't bother reading carefully whatever you post.

      I don't care about being popular, but it bothers me slightly when people try to share good things, and it gets very underwhelming responses.

  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • Originally posted by SBS351M:

      If they are really looking for a 3 door configuration RHD bus, with a one month tender period, it really shows how much they know about buses (or the lack of knowledge). There are very few products in the market that suit that requirement, in fact all the big European manufacturers don't have it and it will take many months to come out with such a product. I can only think of the NBFL and the 3 door Optare Tempo, the former made possible with a small engine, and the latter having a design which will not solve the issue of people not moving back, whilst taking up more space where seats could have been, in fact the door position of the 3rd door doesn't look significantly further back as compared to the rear door of the A22.

      And if they are still trying to see which layout of buses are best suited for this country, I suggest that they look closer at SBS and SMRT. It just reeks of arrogance that civil servants think they can find a better choice than what SBS and SMRT have; what makes them think SBS and SMRT haven't been trying their best in terms of configuration - especially when LTA did nothing to improve the situation until they came out with BSEP, the bus companies are a step ahead, I'm afraid.

      Tender open =/= tender implementation.

      The idea of a tender is for submission of rough proposals and cost and evaluate based on proposed deliverables.

      Existing ideas can be combined and re-packaged to make an awesome proposal. But the proposals aren't 100% cast-in-stone and are usually intentionally made vague at times to allow flexibility. And there is always requirements-gathering as well to further refine the design.

      Before you keep saying LTA CMI LTA CMI LTA CMI, just hold your horses and see la, alamak. LTA isn't some demi-god, but neither are the PTOs. 

  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • Originally posted by SMB145B:

      Hard to say here. We have three types of buses. For SBST, B10Ms, KUBs are Single Decks (SD) while CDGE, Wright, VO2x, VO3x are Double Decks (DD). As for Tibs, O405s, OCs and A22s are Rigids; O405Gs and A24s are Bendies; E50s and A95s are DDs. SMRT Taros are Rigids but the SBST one are SDs.


      You can go and register a company under GeBiz, bid for the tender with a bendy, and then you come back and tell us whether you win or not.

      If the Authority is really bandy-ing words as you seem to imagine, then good for you.

      If not they will just call your bid non-compliant and out you go.

  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • Originally posted by SBS351M:

      If they really needed to evaluate different choices of buses, they wouldn't need to come out with a concept for buses. What they simply needed to do was to wait for whenever they need the buses, come out with a tender, then evaluate from there, which is what most bus companies and transit authorities are doing now, and even if they really wanted to see how different buses perform before making a purchase, they could have gave their specifications and asked for demonstrators.

      You don't see a lot of other cities with concept buses. Coupled with the fact that the main issue with public transport now is connectivity and overcrowding, a concept bus ala NBFL is really just a waste of money then, its simply a prestige project for certain civil servants to show that they have done a part to improve public transport, when they really haven't touched the root issues.

      PT236 Concept Bus Mock-up 

      Calling for: One single deck or double deck Concept Bus mock-up or both

      Closing date: 3 June 2015

      Delivery date: 17 September 2015

      Source: http://www.lta.gov.sg/apps/tender/


      See highlighted. Simi London simi NBFL so cheem.

      I see mock-up = not real bus.

      You mean everyday mock-up buses come and pick us up?

      I see no reason why the Authority wants to try new things without commiting themselves to something more serious like a demonstrator (who in the Authority will drive the bus?). 

      I would be very curious to see what creative designs the bidders will give, without thinking about simi lift in bus la, horse-powered bus la.

  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • Originally posted by JurongWestresident:

      I agree. Unless this increases the capacity OR (AND) reduces operating costs (eg. more energy efficient), the time is not yet right for us to manufacture our own buses.

      Nonetheless, haven't we already manufactured our own buses before, by Comfort Delgro, ST, etcetera.?

      Anyway, besides capacity and operating costs, I think what we need/want is either more bus services, or some campaigns/programmes/schemes/initiatives/measures to change some travel patterns to spread out the loading across more time periods. #justsaying

      Nothing in that excerpt that sgbuses has kindly provided in the lead post suggests manufacturing buses remotely.

      You think what we need/want is either more bus services, or some campaigns/programmes/schemes/initiatives/measures to change some travel patterns to spread out the loading across more time periods. 

      I think what we need will be more discerning minds.

  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • Originally posted by SBS351M:

      They should focus on improving the bus network, especially with connectivity, instead of doing this kind of prestige projects.

      What is a "prestige project"?

      And how is this "prestigious"?

      The simple mind of mine only conceives it as a way for the Authority to evaluate and assess options for purchasing buses.

      Perhaps you could fire up my imagination and then I can somehow "contribute" to this forum. 

      Or not.

  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • Those who registered with GeBiz, will keep to themselves...

       And yes - articulated buses will die out. It didn't really matter how many years it took for proponents to see it, but this is not confirmation enough?

      Edited by SBS2601D 04 May `15, 8:13PM
  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • Price is never the best indicator for winning the bid.

      Unless price is the main component to evaluation.

      Want to find out more? wait for results. Or work for LTA.

  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • Ok, so which of you siao gia did this?


      A teenager allegedly stole a private bus in Woodlands for a six-hour joyride around the island on Sunday, covering at least 155km before being caught in Bukit Batok.

      The suspect, believed to be 17 years old, allegedly stole the vehicle from a private bus depot at Woodlands Industrial Park E3 at 9am, evening daily Shin Min Daily News reported yesterday.

      He drove the 45-seater to Yishun, Ang Mo Kio, Whampoa, Telok Kurau, East Coast Park, Toa Payoh, Choa Chu Kang, Boon Lay, Soon Lee Road, Bukit Batok, Woodlands, Jurong East, Kian Teck Road and Corporation Road.

      The bus' designated driver, Francis Toh, told Shin Min that he had meant to set off for Little India at 2pm that day when he discovered that the bus was missing. He immediately used GPS to locate it.

      "The bus appeared at Kian Teck Road around the Jurong area, so my boss and I went in our cars to look for the missing bus," said Mr Toh.

      He said that the suspect kept turning into small roads, making it difficult for them to follow. But they managed to cut the suspect off at a bus stop in Bukit Batok East Avenue 3, where he had stopped behind an SBS Transit bus.

      It was then that they realised the suspect was a teenager. According to Shin Min, the youth resisted his captors for about 10 minutes before police arrived, even attempting to drive the bus away.

      Mr Toh said he was surprised that the suspect knew how to drive the bus and seemed very familiar with how to operate it, including how to unlock its control system. He added that he had never seen the suspect before.

      To drive a private bus, a person requires a Class 4 driver's licence and a vocational licence. Only those aged 21 and above are allowed to apply for a Class 4 licence.

      Cynthia Yeo - general manager of AZ Bus, which owns the bus - told My Paper yesterday that some of its buses are already equipped with security cameras, and the company plans to add this feature to its entire fleet.

      The police confirmed that they received a report at 3.43pm on Sunday, and have arrested a male suspect. Investigations are ongoing.


      And kns he dare to do so much, but refused to have his face captured on film for the "historic" moment.


      Edited by SBS2601D 10 Mar `15, 10:13PM
  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • When the power supply is burnt the backup is....? Your legs?

      And how is free service a waste of taxpayer money? Because of Temasek left-right-up-down pocket logic?

      SMRT take money from LTA follow same logic above?

      Wa. I think its probably fortunate that LTA people treat such cases of logical fallacies as "siao gao bui" (mad dog barking).

      Edited by SBS2601D 10 Mar `15, 10:13PM
  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • Originally posted by randomguy10:

      Ok I dont take 964 regularly. I only saw how it loads up at WRI. 

      Hmm LTA is the governing body of Land transport. The PTOs CANNOT buy buses without LTA approval be it with or without bus contracting model. The 40 A24s were definitely bought under LTA approval. LTA could have just said no to SMRT if it wanted, SMRT has to go by governing rules. Once again let me remind you SMRT is owned by Temasek Holdings and I dont need to mention who owns Temasek holdings. You wont see LTA letting SMRT buy now and ask it to fly kite in future.

      The fact that Bendys in future will not be used like they are used today and LTA doesnt want to increase the bendy population is true but you cant say bendys will not be used future. They cant buy new bendys now without retiring the older O405Gs. SBST is not going to go out of its comfort zone and buy bendys now and LTA wont see a need to force it upon SBST to use bendys now when they are going to take over the fleet in future. I believe LTA will be objective and buy the right type of buses in future when they have more depots and parking space. Wherever can use DD, LTA will surely choose DDs. But there are bound to be services that are more suited for bendy and services that cannot use DDs. We will see what LTA does in future - but the fact is LTA cant do much now with its limited depot resources and LTA governs purchase of new bus models even now be they BSEP or non-BSEP.

      And FYI, there are close to 150 DD units that will retire after 2017 (Batch 3 VO, VSO and Tridents)

      I have no idea what weed you are smoking. But boy, the mere whiff of it is making me a little high too.

      You mean you aspire to become the top guy at Temasek Holdings.....to tell your kar kia what buses to buy?

      Gee. That sounds way too easy. I also want.

  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • Originally posted by SMB145B:

      they could just update the soft copy with the new names and leave the hard copy as it is.

      the fact is machines read all types of data. the five digit numbers happens to be the unique identifier for that bus stop. bus stop code, bus stop description (name), bus services, bus routes, destination, arriving time. system can read the record for this bus stop given the unique identifier.

      we are used to bus stop names, stations names or how many stops away from this stop or reference point. bus stop number 46509 or opposite marsiling station, which is clear to you? likewise, ns13 or yishun, is clear to you? bus stop names are not unique, blk 322 can refer to bus stop 59359 or 54247. how important are the names to you?

      After taking the time to read through, I still have no idea what your opinion is.

      I shall keep my stuff succinct:

      1. It is not critical compared to bus-stop code.

      2. I can live with out-dated bus-stop names.

      3. The staff at LTA are already close to being worked to death trying to do many things you guys asked for (notwithstanding the ridiculous ones).

      At the end of the day, instead of asking the govt what it can do for you, by the same token, you should ask what can you do for the govt as well. 

      Many here will probably not take the above sentence well. But it's ok to me. For every rigid fellow who refuses to accept or adapt to the realities, there will be people to take advantage and benefit.

      Who you choose to be, is ultimately your choice. Not LTA's.

      Mind too small to see this big picture? It's also ok. 

      Edited by SBS2601D 24 Feb `15, 11:14PM
  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • Originally posted by dupdup77:

      Anybody knows the reason why the authorities are slow to rename the bus stops? Or they just want to leave it as it is? Cheers.

      Bus-stop names are not considered critical to identification unlike the 5 digit bus-stop codes. For purpose of data-capture for analysis, they are considered supplementary to the latter, exisiting for more intuitive identification. Obviously machines read integers (i.e. numbers) easier than "strings" (i.e. texts).

      Hence there is little incentive in "updating" bus-stop names. Frankly, it can also be good to leave them as they are - they remind us of certain legacies. In the pursuit of "efficiency", or "aesthetism", are we willing to completely forgo all vestiges of past memories? 

  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • Originally posted by ^tamago^:

      Kowloon has a population density of 46,010 persons per sq km (6 times that of Singapore), HK Island has a population density of 15,990 persons per sq km (with much of that going to bungalows built on pockets of uneven terrain), with leaving a spacious 3,930 persons per sq km in the N.T. There is less usable land in Hong Kong than the whole of Singapore, and even fewer are truly flat grounds. That explains the popularity of point blocks, which makes it easier to build since you have fewer issues of uneven terrain to contend with for each building.

      And even with 3,930 persons per sq km, Yuen Long routes like 68M/968/68X/268C could come once every 4 to 8 minutes during peak hours, fill to the brim within a couple of stops and head out to the expressway. To support express bus services, you need that kind of density. There is enough demand to operate FFw-style peak routes like Rt.268X which skips Cheung Sha Wan and Sham Shui Po. On weekends where demand is lesser, Rt.268B runs express to Tsim Sha Tsui once every 30 minutes.

      Rt.260X sees brisk business competing with the MTR WRL for travels between Tsim Sha Tsui and Tuen Mun (with long queues to boot at nights) while Rt.269B offers an alternative for those who do not wish to have to transfer to the LRT system.

      Your point was obviously lost on the fellow who "replied" to you earlier.

      Sad but expected outcome really.

  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • No bendy means no bendy.

      Got seat means got seat.

      No seat means no seat.

      What's so difficult.teeth.png

  • SBS2601D's Avatar
    8,451 posts since Apr '05
    • Evidently not having bendies is tantamount to having armageddon in the backyard for some here.

      I lead a much simpler life I suppose, got bus, take, no bus, wait.

      Got seat, sit, no seat, stand.

      And for the umpteenth time, LTA is buying the buses.


      If you want bendies, go elsewhere. 

      If you want varieties, cameo spotting, yada yada, go elsewhere also.

      We will probably be getting only 1 make here, 1 make there, 1 make everywhere.

      You don't like it? Too bad.

      It gets people like me from A to B and that's already good enough for me. Tyvm.

      Edited by SBS2601D 05 Feb `15, 10:11PM