the splitting up of expenses will actually benefit those with time to spare. which includes the middle income group. the rich ones will not bother to go through such hassles. but anyway, i did not really crack my head to anticipate any problems with this, it is already kind of you all to offer solutions without getting paid for it and which may eventually be used in some ways or other by some others while telling you that yours is not feasible because of this or that.
Originally posted by angel7030:
You must hv been to conservative while living in singapore, you should ask your govt, why they created such a scene, scene whereby more nightlife and pubs are growing and becoming more vibrant which contributed perhap 5% of the economy and 10% of taxation. The cost of living and the $$ generated mindset cultured society by your govt, created a lots of stress upon it citizens, and inorder to release all these stresses and in search for happiness,it only compound their spending further by providing them more pubs and cafes or whatever nightlife to enjoy and relax, and also in a way, collect more taxes from it citizens.
With a duo income family household here, what is a home, more like a place to sleep, that is all.
very aptly put. only a place to sleep, you echoed exactly the feelings of lim zi rui and i must admit, that's also how i feel. that's the kind of life that the average worker has to go through everyday. at the office looking at work (0.3 metres away for computer and documents), in the train or on the bus with a sight of 10 cm looking at a foreign worker, reach home to find bills or NS notification, this time a little further (either at the end of the month or 6 months later) but with a 2.6 metres ceiling overhead, not those that the 'talented' have with 5 or 6 metres roof. i am worried what it will become when the time comes for my son to go through this
that depends on the rate of how things evolve relative to one another.
if it is evolving in such a way that; the rate at which it serves to enhance the extravagance of a privileged few and at the same time offers protection to the same group from accountability, is in fact much quicker than the daily essentials of the rest are being addressed, all under false perceptions of meritocracy here,
then we are not even in a position to talk about greener grass yet, especially when the rest are still grappling with the need for better soil to begin seeding under these same perceptions created, that good fertilisers will be arriving for all.Edited by mrObjective 09 Apr `11, 6:41AM
Originally posted by Nelstar:
It is difficult to classify. In fact, it creates divide.
We can look from another point. Introduction to scalable tax from 1% to 20%
Below is an example:
Items below $50 are taxed 1%
Items above $50 to $200 are taxed 3%
Items above $200 to $1000 are taxed 7%
Items above $1000 to $5000 are taxed 15%
Items above $5000 are taxed 20%
While most people cannot avoid the taxations, it is a rather interesting implementation.
So on and so forth. However, this poses a challenge for most standard POS systems and the tax collecting systems.
sound good. but i guess they will, like what you said, give all sorts of excuse on the implementation. when collecting taxes, they can crack their heads to think of all the first in this world methods like electronic road pricing & COE and if you remember when gst is first introduced, they go through the trouble to mint lots of 1 cent & 5 cent coins. but when it is to collect less tax, the same fervour is suddenly missing.
Originally posted by charlize:
No upgrading for you if you vote opposition.
Times are bad.
yes, really bad. with world financial markets at high levels now, it is already so bad. wonder what it will be like when markets crash.
Originally posted by Lazybumy:
Just like u guys, I had work overseas before, not only China but some of the western countries, and S.E.A also. And I had observe what u mention in all the countries that I work in. But u just miss out the point on this, their countries have these policy becos that is what their majority citizens want, but SG FT policy is agree by the majority of the Singaporean, (66%), becos this is the number of the Singaporean who give the govt their mandate and agree with their policy.
an article on the online citizen by an opposition member raises one interesting and important point. that only 37% s'poreans voted in the 2006 elections due to many wards uncontested. this is a huge statistic , in that there are such things happening in democratic sg.
the irony is, being one of the few countries with compulsory voting eventually has most voters forced out instead. let's try guessing why voting is made compulsory? answer can be found on that article
if most wards are contested this election, it will be interesting indeed.
Originally posted by reyes:
arent you sick and tired that PAP candidates are related to the GLC, military, statudary board, dynasty left and right wing relative members.
. civil servants has become part of the PAP arm. sooner or later, we dont even trust the govt coz we cant differentiate the between the civil servant working in the govt ministeries and the PAP members.
potential to be libya style of govt here.
absolutely. if the supposedly politically neutral elections department can be in such a hurry to pass the video 'evidence' to the PAP before polling day to make a big fuss (8 out of 9 campaigning days) out of it, we know how democracy works here, we know how much we can trust civil servants not to be part of the regime.
i agree. it was much worse before as far as i can remember, year 2004. before that, the flaunt of superiority in 'exam capability' was often downright deplorable, even after they had left school for decades, so to speak. nevermind the frequent lack of true ability that should supposedly commensurate such ability to perform in exams. it was only in 2005, when current finance minister tharman took over the education portfolio that things started to change for the better.
in fact, he has also admitted that the system is an exam meritocratic one, so it can be seen that there is only so much he can do around the basic philosophy of the framework laid down by someone else. therefore, credit must go to him that children less academically inclined who were schooling after 2005, were much less discriminated and marginalised than those in my era. having said that, that basic framework has to change if we really want to make the next leapEdited by mrObjective 09 Apr `11, 3:27AM
Originally posted by WeiHui:
What has 'meritocracy' done to Singapore's education since it allows elitism; resentment; to breed? In fact, it hampers social cohesiveness as it widens our social gap.
If you recall what happened in early 2008 when a principal of a well-known school lashed hurtful, even discouraging comments at a corhort of Secondary 5 students, disappointment were aired all over the place and the media even ran a decently negative story on the fact of life of most Sec 5 students upon graduation.
That same year and time, I was abroad completing my undergraduate studies when my schoolmate had requested me to run an internal story in my University's papers on this issue. Honest, I had long forgotten and wanted to forget what the Singapore education was like despite having been trapped in it for 12+ years, and instatenously I was forced to re-accept, re-knidle and remember the hurtful phase I've been through. All because I had taken that route.
While all these has come to past, I would never forget the treatment I recieved both from my relatives, teachers and schoolmates; a bitter taste of life. I hereby warrant for reformative push in Singapore's General Education system as it does not serve its main purpose of strengthening social cohesiveness and providing a platform to educate Singaporeans in a manner that would empower them to become creative thinkers, opinionated individuals and enterprizing business owners who are keen on enhancing the quality of life and social integration.
What the Education System does is widen social gaps starting with individual streaming, grouping of elites and later labelling individuals with hurtful, risid comments that is sin in unfortunately, Christ's eye.
Sadly, the current system is only aimed at creating a wealth of technicians able to work but not think like Bill Gates; Steve Jobs; Mark Wilson - even David Copperfield, rather people apt at monotonous reading than intelligent and critical thinking. Very unlike the Australian education system; International school system whereby youths, to be precise - teenagers, are allowed to explore their interests and strengths first before commiting themselves to their respective field of study. And whether is it a hands-on technical course or pure academia, they excel in it.
Today, our system has come to a point whereby a youth with a decent 'C6' gets to enter an Engineering course in a polytechnic; less-than-average grades to seek solace in NUS and NTU's Engineering faculty, are we going to pay homage to the 1970s Hotel New World crash? When ironically popular skills course like Mass Communications requires you to score at least a B3 to be considered entry with a need to pass math (when its not a requirement in the practical world of comms)? Think people, think - is this proper and can be accepted? Can Singapore afford to have nuclear scientists; nuclear technicians with a borderline pass in Math - disturbing and frightening, right? Engineering should not be viewed as a dumping ground because lives are at stake.
As for myself, the path I've been through failed to take me on a route to becoming a doctor but a lifestyle writer, while majority of my classmates - sadly, 90% - became salesgirls and young mothers, with the youngest bearing a child before recieving the key to adulthood. Is this the path most Normal students need to take as a price for neglecting their primary 6 examinations? I personally believe that youths could have a brighter future if offered an equal-education opportunity to discover their interests and strengths prior to commiting to a specialized course of study.
In conclusion, I've this to say:12 is too tender a age to have your path cut out for you by the system which has to change. For your future and your child's, think now or never.
JM2C, WH. Whether you like it or not, its just mu two cents, my voice and my words.
P.S. Here's a link to an expired topic that's been debated before: http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/8/topics/298141?page=4
i sympathise with what you have been through. i share the same feelings, but before i go on to throw cold water on you about how the entire system here works,
we should first always remind ourselves that each of those who gave up since their youth are not because they are they are less smart than us. first of all, do you seriously think that the current system is a meritocratic one? do you really think that you & I having graduate degrees are considered successful? if you truly think so, then you have fallen into the same trap that this ruling party has laid out for us.
the lower 'reserves' as someone said, are not any less capable than us, it is just that they are not allowed to discover their interest and strength before their interest is killed off totally. by school ranking, class ranking and so on. they may even be doing better than us under another country's system. it is merely a perception created over the years (at the expense of other types of talents) that people with memory skills are the most important. therefore, we as the upper 'reserves' has nothing that suggests we are more capable than the lower 'reserves', just like there is also absolutely nothing that suggest those not classified as reserves are indeed that smarter.
all right, now for the cold hard truth. it is not only the education system that is working like this. it is the entire system from education to work to yes, even politics
which also works that way. we are trained from young to learn everything right up to university. in the end we are not particularly excellent in any.
however, every child, every person has different strength, different interests but
under this current system, they are not only not allowed to flourish, their perception
of what it means of doing well is seriously distorted in their early years and so
if reproducing classroom notes within that 2-3 hours of exam is not their strength,
they will be penalised for life. memory and ability to multi-task becomes a priority
in this country so it carries through to life as working adults as well.
don't get me wrong. i am not saying people with such skillsets are not important. it is just that it is viewed as the highest of capabilities and thus the most important on this island. in fact, the way how everything is run here, from school ranking, class ranking, job requirements, facts selectively presented in parliament and on TV makes it highly suspicious that such a perception of what is defined as capable is intricately crafted for the rest of us. you can even smell a rat that in their pursuit of this claim of superiority over the others, even if singaporeans and children with all other talents are marginalised and could risk losing interest to learn altogether early in their life, it doesn't bother them much.
so it goes from here that people with the skills of being able to handle many different tasks are valued much more and thus the monetary system to reward the individual is also made to be that way. the ability to multi-task often happens to be the same group of people who have good memory. managers become the most important position in every industry in this country and what most aim for.
but in society, various jobs requires different skillsets of which many takes much more than just memory skills or multi-tasking skills. in engineering, we need people who are curious, adventurous and willing to try things, even break things. something may need to first fail or break before some other things are discovered. we also need to constantly question, challenge the status quo for any breakthrough.
experience and specialising is also important. some of my retiring european colleagues are still working on the same project that they have started on when they first joined the company after graduation. but the way the highest level managers (govt) up there changes focus area every 10 years means tens of years of work experience will be wiped out. retraining will always be required. excuse for the need of foreign talents can also be made legitimate.
in creative arts, it requires yet a very different set of skills and raw talent to produce beautiful pieces. i am not a creative person and so am not a position to comment on what is required to be in this industry. one thing is for sure though. both fields require things to be done one thing at a time, frequently with good precision for engineering and i believe finding the right touch in creative arts.
so if you have noticed, many govt organisations always asked for graduates with
first class or second class upper. you may have also heard this before, 'degree holders are only suited to washing test tubes.' again, don't be mistaken, i am not saying first class/ second class honours are not good. it is just to show you how myopic and simplistic the selection process of this country is, in all aspects of society. all these therefore creates the class of what i call false eliticism or exam meritocracy.
i would like to clarify that true eliticism and true meritocracy is good. why? you may
ask. this is because if the people concerned are true elites, it benefits society. of
course, it is also necessary that they come with the compassion to share the wealth. all right, back to the discussion on talent & ability. if they are really that capable, everyone will benefit. at least in economic sense. but the fact is, for the past 20 years, the average singaporean quality of life has not improved much.
not only we are left to fend for our own in the very basics of human needs in this 'first world society'; education, retirement, healthcare and housing, using what we earn monthly. the worst of this is; come crisis times, the very job that helps us take care of the above listed burdens in life is at high risk of loss for good. and the excuse given to us is; singapore is subjected to 'external factors beyond our control'. it is only due to the mainstream media that huge mistakes in policies and glaring fundamental flaws are swept under the carpet but singaporeans are not that stupid not to take notice at all.
and whenever election time comes in the 90's if you remember, we are always reminded that this or that candidate is a president scholar or straight A student, 20 years ago that is.as you can see, true performance is not relevant at all to what these people did 20-30 years ago in their exams. what we need instead is adventurous school drop outs like steve jobs. apple now has a market capitalisation of more than 300 billion, more than the gdp of s'pore and has created some of the best products and become the most valuable technological company on planet earth
<Henry Ford's Model T ushered in the modern assembly line, made the automobile affordable, Yet he had very little formal education. Thomas Edison's formal education ended when he was seven years old. His teacher said young Edison had an "addled" mind and was a poor student. His mother homeschooled him. Edison did pretty well for himself later: He brought the world the incandescent light bulb, the phonograph, and hundreds of other inventions.> quoted.
therefore, if true eliticism and performance exist in this country. we may be like japan, with the largest carmaking and multimedia industry in the world. we may be like south korea, they have samsung, the world largest consumer electronics company, not to forget hyundai and LG. we may be even like taiwan who has the world largest TSMC and foxconn, in semiconductor and contract manufacturing respectively. you can easily find similar instances in other industries. this is not to mention US & the other european countries which are worlds apart in many sectors of industry and most importantly in how they take care of the basic needs of their citizens.
so to wrap up, let me give you an example. if these people are truly as outstanding as they have painted themselves to be or as capable as suggested in the way they have rewarded themselves, the interest rates we get on our cpf would be 10% per annum instead. now they cannot afford to give this interest rate. why? they, like any normal beings has succumbed, two years ago, to the primitive impulses similar to those found in animals & cavemen. they went on a buying spree on financial assets in citigroup, UBS, merrill lynch and barclays in 2008, a few months before the lehman debacle.
let us take ourselves back to april 2008; ***** the trend has been a rising one, this recent setback in price is a perfect opportunity to buy and so it seems logical for them to linearly project prices into the sky. anyway, star analysts in major investment banks in US have all mentioned this is just a correction. 'Dow Jones will go to 30,000' and so we now know that the blue sky was what they saw a few months after they have bought in.
now with the benefit of hindsight, of course we can say anything we want but a closer look at the situation at that time reveals that the claim of never being able to have foreseen the collapse of major investment banks in US, is in fact a convenient untruth. the number of experts in US, warning just before the crisis of a bank meltdown due to a burst bubble in US real estate, though few, were giving sufficient valid reasons for the danger ahead, not less that they are past nobel economics prize winners. although they are not in the thick of action in markets, such warnings should serve well enough for anyone not to go on a buying spree like that. furthermore, these people handling our money are supposed to be that good (4xobama's salary), aren't they?
<all these happened because for the most part, consumers judge prices of rice and clothing consciously according to their needs and means but when human beings value financial assets, they must contend with a debilitating lack of knowledge and feelings of uncertainty. unconsciously, they contend with these judgements in sympathy with or in reaction to the opinions and behaviour of others. this surrender of responsibility makes them participants, which is not a reasoning entity.> quoted
safety in numbers works well for the cavemen. in financial markets, it often brings the opposite result. after all, everyone see the same market commentaries, read the same newspapers, analyse the same economic numbers, look at the same stock indices everyday in such markets, when it is so obvious, it is obviously wrong. it appears that it would have been much better even if they have stayed put and not bought or sold anything. but in the end, we are made to pay for their mistakes.
therefore, after 10 years of compulsory education with rules set by someone else which serves to benefit themselves, we are now already at work and we cannot reverse what we have been through in school but it is still not too late to do something for our children. true, the content of the education here is not too bad but the philosophy behind the motivation of discovering 'talents' in the process and the objective of what is set out to achieve ultimately in a person's education life span is far from ideal. we need to ask ourselves whether school rankings, class rankings especially that it is based mainly on examinations , is necessary.
yes indeed, we are accountable for our own lives. we have the freedom of choice.
in a few weeks time, we can express this choice so that we can set ourselves free for good and most importantly with the possibility of rewriting the rules for all future generations of singaporeans so that they can maximise his/her own strength and who can contribute towards a better future for us all and not just carrying a piece of paper that indicate that few hours of memory excellence during our youthful years. these people affected by our choice will be our children, our grandchildren. each of them will be different. it is not possible that every one of them will be 'this successful'(becoming a scholar), or even 'as successful as us' (graduating with a degree), if we even consider this as successful. let us not put them through what we have been through.Edited by mrObjective 07 Apr `11, 5:24AM
Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Just watched the repeat telecast. Tharman and Josephine Teo brought up a lot of statistics about how they're helping the poor....it's such a different picture from the ground.
Tharman says that 85% of the bottom 20% own their flats. Yes, the reason why they own their flats is because all their savings have gone into these housing and that's why we still see old old $600 a month cleaners and old aunties and uncles picking cardboards.
JosephineTeo misses the point and says that 80% of the production operators in manufacturing are foreigners while 80% of managerial positions are singaporeans. If they were to remove foreigners, these foreign companies would move elsewhere. For fuck's sake, I think she completely missed the point. Nobody's asking for these unskilled or semi skilled workers to go, it's just that the managerial and professional positions....a lot are taken by pple from india, china and the phillippines. That's why there are so many unemployed PMETs.
Josephine Teo also mentioned that unemployment rate is very low at 2.1%. Well, if the sampling for the stats are based on residents, which includes PRs, then how many jobs are actually created for Singaporeans? We could have had a lot of locals unemployed but the percentage is mitigated by many other new PRs getting the jobs. The negative thing about such public debates is that they can quote any kind of figure they want and god knows it it's true?
yes, they are excellent in selective quoting. when discussing about unemployment, we all know what we are interested is unemployed singaporeans/total singaporeans. the way they dodge here a bit, there a bit, we know the truth may be this; oh this data is better there - got it; resident unemployment/total residents (includes PR as we know). and since some PR are from JB but work here so have no local address but with employment records.
when comparing public transport costs, they will quote hong kong, london. when talking about GST, suddenly hong kong (which has no GST) is not there anymore.
she was already caught once by the online citizen on selectively quoting germany unemployment benefits disadvantages to support claims of not favouring such benefits. as for the old uncles and aunties cleaners, we should also pity them. they also face competition of $300/month bangladeshi workers for their jobs. we may be facing same problem as them in future.
Originally posted by reyes:
very detail. fully agree.
better downgrade to save on the insurance.
yes indeed. lifeform can be so pathetic here in sg... putting our lives at stake for our family (this, i am not complaining), protecting it at our own expense from any mishap and end up getting punished for doing it (GST).
okay, probably i just do a quick calculation on how objective i am to donate charitably every month to the taxman on just GST, not considering other tax yet
water, electricity & utilities - 150
milk powder/diapers/food for 2 children - 200
/infant care/child care/after school care for 2 children - 350x2 - 700
transport for 2 children - 50x2 - 100
min cost of public transport for myself - 100
phone & internet - 50
food for myself - 100
insurance on myself in case i drop dead while training or taking IPPT or if i met with a freak accident while in camp - 300
the above after leaving out the last two adds up to 1700/month, shall remove 300 from here for companies too small to be taxed by GST assuming all merchants are honest enough not to 'factor' them in.
oh maybe i'm spent too much, i should not have a phone nor internet, walk my children to school, restrict the whole family to 2 meals a day etc..
anyway, i have donated 98 monthly to the taxman on GST. so when i get 800, it seems i can still get to christmas? that's great, i must send the taxman a thank you note this christmas then. at least, i can still last to year end
oh no, i am reminded at home i also need to pay town council, property tax, oh & income tax, the one i used to pay the above. i guess one can't get more objective & charitable than that right? i feel i'm a star in the president star charity
trust me, the 800 is really nothing. with the taxes that we have listed above, it can easily add up to at least 200 a month and up to more than 500 a month.
if we were to lose our job to an FT, we cannot even last up to polling day at the rate we are taxed with this 800.
if we were to do a detailed calculation on what the govt owe us up to age 55 as compared to what other first world nations are doing for their people,
the true figure is much closer to a high 6 figure sum than this meagre 800.Edited by mrObjective 31 Mar `11, 6:15AM
Originally posted by reyes:
govt already had so many ways to earn money from singaporeans that GST was not even necessary at all.
as i mention earlier COE alone can net govt around 700-1 billion a year. ( not even car makers of mazda, subaru, mitsubishi can claim that net profits.
workers levy can also net govt more than 1 billion a year.
other tax we pay.
1. ERP, road tax
2. income tax,
4. property tax.
5. casino tax.( + entrace fee).
6. indirect petrol tax ( 40cents /litres).
You call that helping the ppl of singapore? or do it fatter the govt coffers for you blood suckers to draw and justify your million dollars salary?
very creative indeed, the taxman. a bit here, a bit there and it becomes a mountain for the poor and also the average person like me
the huge power of GST is that, it cause other expenses which does not show GST is being charged to increase as well.
-merchants use the excuse of GST to increase prices whether or not they are affected
-food, milk powder & diapers at supermarket
-public transport council to increase bus and mrt fares by few cents only every year.
-child care centres to increase citing 'costs'. children school bus to increase
-phones and utility charges (these 2 are shown but just to show how far GST can reach me)
send your children to child care, we are screwed by GST & fuel tax, try to siam this tax & employ a maid instead? still screwed by maid levy & again fuel tax.
$800 hongbao? this is the first place i know that i have to declare first on 15 april how much i want to 'bao' for someone before receiving the return hongbao. very kind indeed
Originally posted by kira.sg:
I also don't know why 66% of the voters supported them.
shall bring this to the front. overwhelming support for our lonely voice in parliament on such a critical issue deserves front page attention during this important period. this is what i've learnt from the excellent marketing team of the govt, the media.
from what i see around me, friends & relatives, there are mainly 2 big groups voting for them. the possibility of identification by the serial number on the voting slip has a huge psychological effect on one group, i suppose mainly civil servants & special interest group. of course, there is the diehard pap supporters group among these.
the other group is one that largely ignorant about politics and is totally mesmerised by the marketing done by the media & may have possibly not travelled outside of the country to do good comparison. 'this govt is doing quite well mah' is what i've heard frequently. seems like we got to do some marketing on our own.
no use forcing our opinions on them, i realised, may have opposite effect, just raise their awareness. this leaves the rest of the 33.3% of us who on internet which they cannot control, who are objective enough to decide what is right or wrong
Originally posted by Lazybumy:
Do u think the regular units will be call in when there a freak election? Dun u know that there something call Gurkha Unit in SG.
oh, i didn't know that, then it is really a relieve. really hate it if we are ordered to fight among ourselves and the so called FTs are all leaving after coming here to quote a much lower salary to bring home. if this day comes, we have to recognise that it is due to failed govt policies and thus target the right people instead of ourselves
Originally posted by sgdiehard:
actually I believe that the old Lee might use the military or the police in an event that the ruling party lose control to an unknown opposition in a freak election. In that event, I don't think they need the influence of the ex military or police mp, there are so many ways to mobilize the required forces, in the name of national stability.
Hope that will not happen.
I think the requirement that the generals and police chief have to resign, and get elected is a necessary, and a good safeguard. Besides, it is the choice of the person to decide if he would join the PAP or the opposition.
Imagine we have an ex general in the opposition camp trying to use his influence in the army to go against the government, hmm....that is not very desirable also.
when such thing happens, if we are called up and ordered to control the crowd, it is indeed painful for all fellow singaporeans and our families since the crowd are fellow citizens (friends & relatives), very emotional times, will probably defy orders
maybe since we have hindsight now who will leave, hope we can stand united & demand first from the command that all exit points to be blocked, confiscate all possessions of those leaving and if we have the time, blow up all erp gantriesEdited by mrObjective 27 Mar `11, 4:15AM
if we are not able to control our spending, cpf locked or not locked, end result is the same and we only have ourselves to blame. but this still does not justify money of others to be locked with ours.
if all are locked at unreasonable rates, only one group to blame, the govt.
only way to help this group is to heavily publicise the need for annuities at age of withdrawal, the way they do it for gambling prevention
which is why i said if gic & temasek are capable, even after drawing out at 55, we still have quite a bit to draw on later
seems like it is not easy to explain this. okay, let's see it from a few different angles. first - just because we willingly contribute does not mean it is not our money.
next - if the only way the average man can keep the cpf part of our money is by working as contract staff, then it will be great joke indeed; ministers drawing the millions as permanent staff, the average man is a contract staff.
Finally, can't you see, it's is just a figure game. the govt and media always like to scream loudly headlines like these 'median income rises 12% in 2010'
the median income is; mind you 'median assessable income'. try telling them not to tax our cpf part (both employer & employee) since it is not from our daily effort?
with such a headline, they are telling the whole world we are well taken care of, drawing increasing salaries. since they are announcing this & now they (& you) turn back, behind the scenes to tell us part of this that they use to their own advantage actually belong to them? oh yes, I'm fooled, they are so nice, so capable & we are talking nonsense indeed.
so let's go back to accounting; it is very clear whenever we use accounting. when we use accounting, we don't bother what they do, minimum wage, lock up cpf, increasing population, draw their perfect salaries, in fact, they can draw how much they want - if they are capable
do whatever they want if they can provide the basics. for eg. if they can give 10% p.a on our cpf, I'm okay with my cpf locked up, why? because with the rule of 72 estimation, an amount will double in about 7 years. in 28 years, $20,000 will become $320,000, way above the cpf minimum sum, the rest we can draw earlier. but are GIC & temasek that capable? the answer is obvious.Edited by mrObjective 24 Mar `11, 6:24AM
Originally posted by likeyou:
I hv a uncle, he has cpf, he decided to withdraw all his cpf money when he reached 55 yr old. Now, his cpf is closed, he went back to malaysia for good. Now, his saving almost dried up, he cannot come to spore to work anymore. Told him not to take all money out, he wont listen. Now work in malaysia drawing $1k myr per month.
yes, the idea of enforced savings is good for some or in fact many. but this should not be used as an excuse to hoard our money for selfish purposes. much less to use it to exploit the middle and lower class in terms of the eventual returns.
if they find it difficult not to implement a blanket lock up for all, then as what i explained in long term interest rates terms, we should be compensated sufficiently instead of the current 2.5%, 4%, 4%. with additional 1% for first $60,000.
for a period of 30-60 years lock up, these rates are not acceptable. and in fact if we check the cpf website, these rates are not guaranteed either, so we are more like being at the maximum rates right now with the crisis waiting
Originally posted by reyes:
Bro, the concern of most ppl here they are not able to withdraw it in their lifetime.
i dont think govt will match dollar to dollar as they reason probably they extend our withdraw age could be they do not have enough cashflow to pay us. most of it are invested in GLC, temasek and GIC.
other proposal by you is day dream. to answer some of it, sky rocketing HDB price, more foreigners coming into singapore for work, cap in medisave withdrawal for treatment.
wait long long.
Bro, yes i understand what you mean, any of those that i have listed is in fact day dreaming in s'pore context. but what i'm trying to say is since they are drawing such a perfect salary, all these should not be dreams at all.
they are trying to say they are the best in the world by drawing such salaries but in fact those that i've listed are all happening in western nations. nevermind that they are in debt now because of this, they at least stand as one & prosper & suffer together. so we are not asking them to meet all those but if they can't meet even one of them, this shows how overhyped their capabilities are.
we are not asking for the sky, all these are basic items in life. if they have no cashflow to support the average man these, they shouldn't have enough cashflow to justify their perfect salaries either and so they shouldn't be imposing so much tax.
so my point here is; those are not really proposals but more to illustrate the accounting point of view. in accounting sense, no money for this? no money for that either. lock up our cpf? then better compensate accordingly. want us to shoulder the burden of education, healthcare & retirement? then better make sure there are jobs for everyone all the time. it is just a way of balancing our account against theirs to know at any time whether we are shortchanged.
having cpf till retirement is only good when govt share the part of the pain of the wait for our money up to retirement. otherwise, they get to use our money for free while we do the waiting
it will only be good having cpf up to retirement if;
govt match dollar for dollar (sharing burden)
OR it'll be good also if they are able to guarantee rock solid employment throughout (accounting for)
OR if they are taking care of cost in education, healthcare, housing and NS income & insurance cover (responding to needs)
OR if they receive a quarter of what they are receiving now (building dreams together - it is not easy to achieve the above but we can all try together)
it is not good if they cannot meet even one of the above and implying they are so good, took their two million and leave us in the lurch
right. one can imagine what is up their sleeves. no news.. then dissolve parliament, a swift nomination and announcement of election day.. a whirlwind 9 day campaigning..
then the cool off day while the images on TV continue to play on our minds, stir emotions and swing neutral votes..then bang..it's all over, 5 more years of wait
unlike previous elections, we face a formidable obstacle this time-psychological manipulation-our soft side
parliaments and congress of other countries requires internal voting for critical policies to pass, though this is not immediately possible here,
at least, let's vote for a greater voice representing us in parliament and not live to regret whatever tax that may be passed at will after the elections
Originally posted by Edd1:
LOL!!!All these things won't happen to SG...If SG got 9.0 Earthquake the whole SG bye bye liao lor....
that's the power of the media. we may not know it ourselves but subconsciously after a tired day at work and the TV images flashing, we may be thinking.. oh maybe we are the only ones whining, we should upgrade and so on. since they will constantly pick on us like, we need talent, we need this tax and so on.
so if we want to watch the TV, we pick on them instead. we remember what they said and hold them to their promise. note what is done or how it finally turns out for an issue. by drawing such a perfect salary, 4xobama's i repeat, they have left themselves no room for mistakes
there should be no comments like 'it is simplistic to assume that cutting foreign workers will improve productivity' (2009). Sure, it is not simple but with such a salary, it should not be at all difficult especially with such a critical aspect as job which we need to shoulder the burden of basic aspects like healthcare, education, retirement and housing all on our own with 0 benefits unlike elsewhere