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  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Rooney_07:

      there there there.....even a criminal can ascend to heaven, no wonder heaven is a place of criminals. I will not be surprised if there are people like hitler and hardcore criminals in heaven. doesnt it dawn on you that, what makes you think the criminal would not create havoc in heaven? do you think he will be reformed? oh god will reboot his system and convert him from criminal to an angel once he is in heaven icon_eek.gif

      Rooney,

      Yes, isn't it the amazing grace of God that even the most penitent criminal who repents can be forgiven and accepted into God's heaven? Such is the love of God for sinful men! Yes, I will not be surprised that in heaven there will be many surprises when it comes to who I will see in heaven.

      Why should I entertain the thought that the criminal will wreak havoc in heaven? Does the Bible speak of that? Where? Not anywhere. In fact the book of Revelation tells us that there will be no more curse or evil as the devil and his followers will be thrown into the lake of fire where they will be tormented forever. There will be an eternity of heavenly bliss.

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Rooney_07:

      I still cant believe in this day and age, still got people blindly believe this kind of dope, where science can explain to layman in literature, the bible is unable to for the past 2 millenniums.

      what good news lol.does it dawn on you that what if there is no god. ok some say they rather believe in it as they have nothing to lose, is like an insurance thingy to me. you believe in it just in case there is a god. well anyway I have no problem you believe in this dope, but just make sure you do not become an extremist or fundamentalist and start going around proselytizing to non believers you are going to hell. anway my stand is this, it says much about the religion when you have to resort this way to recruit people.

      Rooney,

      Yes, science can explain to us many things in nature. But again please note that it was the Christian worldview that gave us modern science. Science is always playing catching up with the Bible. It was Jastrow who said the following words (from Wiki)

      "Now we see how the astronomical evidence supports the biblical view of the origin of the world....the essential elements in the astronomical and biblical accounts of Genesis are the same. Consider the enormousness of the problem : Science has proved that the universe exploded into being at a certain moment. It asks: 'What cause produced this effect? Who or what put the matter or energy into the universe?' And science cannot answer these questions. "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
      No, it does not dawn on me that there is no God. If there is no God, then nothing can be known about anything at all. The universe has a beginning and beg a cause. The Christian holds that God is that cause, and this is a most logical and reasonable conclusion. The atheist holds that the universe made itself from nothing. But from nothing nothing comes, so how is your worldview a reasonable one?
      You talk about Pascal's Wager but seem not to know the intent and purpose of that line of apologetic, so I shall leave it at that. And why should telling others about my faith be an act of extremism? If so, then the Singapore Constitution is guilty of extremism since Article 15 (if I am not wrong) allows for that. Are you going to take this position? Hopefully not!
      Yes, the Bible teaches that there is a hell to avoid. Unpleasant? Sure it is. But this no more makes hell unreal just as prison is a real and unpleasant place to avoid going. We don't like the prospects of hell because we don't like punishment or judgement from God. Christianity does not gloss over the unpleasant parts. In fact, the Bible tells us to preach so that we can snatch souls from hell. Why do you suppose that Christians everywhere enjoy talking about hell? Truth is, we don't. There is a good reason why many Christians refrain from sharing their faith and prefer to engage in "lifestyle evangelism" because it is easier since it requires one to say nothing. It is not nice to tell people that nice people go to hell, but the Bible does not teach that nice people go to heaven. Being nice never qualify one for heaven. Being forgiven of our sins and being saved in Christ does.
      Again if you do not like what the Bible teaches, then please exercise the tolerance that the government talks about and just let it be. If someone approaches you with the good news, just politely say "not interested" and move on.

       

       

      Edited by BroInChrist 05 Dec `11, 11:29AM
  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Demon Bane,

      I think to just look at the similarities among religions is really (pardon me) only superficially skimming the surface and ignoring the fundamental differences between them. Mutual understanding involves taking the time to understand differences as well. We don't have to accept them as true, but we have to accept them as what others choose to believe. Ignoring differences does not go a long way in helping mutal understanding at all. We can affirm what is similar and tolerate those that we disagree with. Come to think of that, that's what tolerance is all about isn't it? To bear with those whom we disagree or dislike. There's nothing to tolerate if everything is accepted. It is when we do not accept something but we choose to let go and let live where we exercise tolerance and forbearance. Agree?

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Tcmc,

      The problem lies in your confusion and shallowness and repeated refusal to read properly what I wrote. You try to swim in deep waters when you should stick to the wading pool. I don't know how knowledgeable you are about other religions but I can clearly see that you are clearly out of depth here when it comes to Christianity. And mind you I am no amateur or novice when it comes to the Christian faith.

      I never said there is no evidence for God. There is a huge difference between saying that empircism is limited and saying there is no evidence for God. Please don't anyhow put words in my mouth. Neither am I saying that the Bible proves the existence of Adam and Eve. I am saying that the Bible teaches that Adam and Eve are real people. And using the Bible as a lens to look at the world makes the most sense. It is hardly illogical to reason that if we can trace our history back that we would arrive at the first human couple whom the Bible called Adam and Eve.

      Neither am I using the Bible to prove that donkeys can talk. I do not even entertain the idea that all animals can talk for that matter! Please don't think that the Bible is some kind of Narnian world ok? The only times when animals could talk was when the devil spoke through the serpent and when God opened the mouth of the donkey and made it talk to Balaam. Both times involved supernatural intervention. Can I prove to you that it did happened? No I cannot just like I can't prove to you that Julius Ceasar was assassinated either, we simply take historians at their word who took the time to search out ancient documents. But I can tell you that in a world where the supernatural realm exists that such things are not impossible, that supernatural beings can intervene and make animals talk. I only have to argue the case that miracles are possible, while you have the unenviable burden of proving that miracles are impossible.

       

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Tcmc,

      1. Here's my challenge to you, you show me those direct verses that PROVE Jesus is not God in the flesh and I will show you how wrong you are. Deal? I lay it on the line again, the Bible teaches the Trinity. It is also in the early creeds. It is one of the definitive doctrines of the faith.

      2. Since when did I say there is no evidence for God? Have you heard of the term General Revelation? Or what some called Natural Theology? The Bible says that the invisible things of God are seen in the created things. Creation declares a Creator just like a painting points to a painter. And I said that experiences are supporting testimonies to the truth of something but by themselves are not proof of something.

      3. You are playing semantics here. Because there are unique personalities in different religions means therefore all religions are the same? Just because you are you and I am I so therefore we are all the same???? See how flawed such a reasoning is? We are only the same in one sense but different in another. I hope you are not toying with me here. Some call you a troll here, but I am giving you the benefit of the doubt. Like I said, I am not here to bash other religions but to defend mine from the bashing of others.

      4. How am I contradicting myself? Do you even know what a contradiction is to begin with? I am not saying that the Bible proves there is a God. The Bible ASSUMES the existence of God to begin with. What I am saying is that the Bible teaches that God is triune. And if you are telling me that the Bible does not teach that, then I have already refuted you on that.

      5. Whether other religions have their trinities or not is not my concern, and I don't think it is your's either, if you are honest to admit it. You just see it as a point to be used in whacking the Christian faith, am I right? I am simply explaining to you the difference between polytheism and monotheism and its relation to the Trinity.

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Tcmc,

      Why would you think that Adam and Eve were not real people? Jesus taught that they were real. So did Paul. In fact the Bible teaches that Adam and Eve were real people. Other than anti-Biblical bigotry at work I don't see any reason to think that Jesus was lying about Adam and Eve. Paul taught that Jesus was the Second Adam, and that all humans are dead in Adam. Paul certainly saw Adam and Eve as real people. And Jews are very particular about ancestry.

      Can I prove that to you? No. But can I show you that this is reasonable? Certainly! All humans go back to the first human pair who were directly created by God. If it were possible to do so, you can trace our human genealogies all the way back and I am confident to assert that you would end up with Adam and Eve.

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Tcmc,

      1. As far as the Bible is concerned, anyone who denies that Jesus is God in the flesh is the anti-Christ. So tell me how can such be considered Christian? Calling oneself "Christian" is easy. And nonbelievers like you easily label anyone who profess belief in Jesus or the Bible a Christian without due regards to the actual Bible teachings.

      2. I do not make experiences the test of truth, it at best only supports the truth. Or if something is true, then certain experiences should confirm it or be consistent with it. Experiences are personal to holder and are notoriously hard to prove or disprove. Yet in the mouth of people of integrity they can lend credible support to the truth of something being proclaimed. What makes Christianity unique is the Person of Jesus Christ. Who He claimed to be and what He came to do.

      3. I am not using the Scriptures to prove that there is a God. I am not arguing that God exists because the Bible says so. I am using the Scriptures to show you that the teaching of the Trinity is clearly there. Can a Hindu or Muslim prove his own Scriptures? I don't know and I see no reason to take your word for it. I am not here to whack other religions, but to defend my own religion from the whacking of others, and I can see a few consistent ones here, including you.

      4. You said that the trinity in other religions are also unique. The impression you want to give is that Christianity is also man-made religions which have their own trinities. But you are clearly failing to see the difference between polytheism and monotheism. In the former you can always cobble three gods together and call them a trinity. Tell me how to do that under monotheism? The Christian concept of Trinity is such that no man can think of it. Nor would anyone be up to it to conceive of it, were it not revealed from God Himself. The Christian doctrine of the Trinity is a mystery and many throughout Christianity have bled to defend it from heretics and attacks. If Christianity was a man-made religion, why would anyone want to make it any more difficult? Please give me a good reason.

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • How am I mistaken concerning the Constitution which allows people to propagate their religion freely? As to slipping fliers, that’s not illegal at all.

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Ad hominem attack Rooney? Please explain why my reasoning is warped. Show the fallacies I committed if you can.

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Susan, just because some people suffer from some mental problems does not therefore mean that any talk of God is bogus.

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Rooney, you are confused with the term afterlife. Since when is that term restricted to mean either rebirth or reincarnation? I understand that term to simply means the state that comes after death, the continued existence of the soul/spirit if man.

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Why should evangelism be banned? Where is the tolerance for the religious activities of others? Many religions are missionary religions, to ban evangelism means to criminalise certain religions and this also violates the Constitution of Singapore.

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Rooney, you did not read properly what I wrote. Genesis 3 foretold the coming of the Messiah. You are confused between first and second coming. But this is to be expected since atheists are generally ignorant of what the Bible teaches.

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Atheists like to scoff and mock at the Christian by saying that God is like Santa Claus or Darth Vader. But such a claim establishes or proves nothing at all. I can just as easily rebutt by saying that God is as real as the tree i see before me. If atheists wish to be taken seriously then they really need to put in some real hard work in arguing their position. Perhaps it is no wonder that atheists are constantly losing the public debates with theists.

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Which part of your reasonable IQ has read the Bible and then concluded that it teaches that failure to be baptised in water means a fiery hell waits? One example is enough to refute you. The thief who was crucified beside Jesus believed and was promised Paradise that very day.

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Christianity has good news to offer you mock it as MLM. BTW it is not as though MLM is illegal ok? Anyway, what has atheism got to offer in this life or the next? This current life we live last at most 70 years or more, provided you don’t die young. But the life to come after death lasts for eternity, whether in heaven or in hell. Shouldn’t it be sensible to take care of that even more?

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Not entirely correct. Yes, Jesus walked the earth 2000 years ago but His coming was already foretold in the first book of the Bible, Genesis. So I would argue that the history of Christianity in a certain sense really goes back much further.

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Christians are convinced of God’s existence because there are good reasons for doing so. Even noted atheist Anthony Flew finally was convinced. What good reasons do you have for being an atheist?

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • But just because you don’t like something does not mean it is not true or real. While the Bible talks about a hell that we are all condemned to it also talks about how we can change our course. Why don’t you accept the escape door that God has provided?

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • We know who Superman’s creators were. Since you said God is created by man, who? Or is that you say one? Yes love is real but you can’t see it or touch it with your senses. Love cannot be tested by scientists. The Bible teaches that God is love. And God is Spirit so He cannot be tested by empirical means. Nevertheless He is just as real as love.

  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Rooney, you need to meet more people. I personally know of Christians who are scientists. And your polemic against creationism is just that, mere polemic. In fact, evolutionists like Dawkins are intimidated by creationists that they do not even dare to debate with them in public. Of course they give crap excuses like not wishing to dignify the opposition blah blah blah. I think he is just being a coward.