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  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

      LOL..........look no more than this deluded statement!!!do I need to say anymore????

      he is entitled to his own opinions however deluded it is angel.png


      That I am entitled to my opinions was never an issue. But you did not show why my views are deluded other than just saying it.

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by lce:

      is ad hominem part of yr religion or only yr character?


      What do you mean by that?

      Edited by BroInChrist 26 Sep `12, 11:41PM
  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by lce:


      wat makes u think u r in the position to spread yr religion?


      What makes you think you are in the position to question my position to spread my religion?

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

      dun bother with this chap. Like I have said, his views and opinions are as incoherent and obsolete, not to mention utter nonsense. dun ever try to talk sense to an illogical person, you will get nothing brickbats in return.


      See atheists like Jacky likes to poison the well and discourage people from listening to the arguments for God. He is trying to protect you from questioning your own beliefs and shielding you from arguments that demolish atheism. Other than the usual anti-Christian slogans he repeat Jacky does not offer any rational defense for atheism.

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:


      wrong... my stand has always been that both sides are unproven... your stand has always been that your faith and believe are more supreme... you are the one putting yourself on a higher pesdestal.

      Have some self awareness please.


      That depends on what you mean by not proven. But my stand has always been that theism is more rational than atheism, and that the evidence points to theism.

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:


      what you show and what you claim to be rational is solely based on your own judgement and own interpretations... it shld onli represent yourself and not as a global fact/truth. Whatever that you think may be the truth might not necessaryily be it. Both creationism and atheism has yet to be proven to be global truth.

      Stop putting yourself and your faith and believe on a higher pedestal.


      Well, if you are still unconvinced that atheism is irrational I will be more than happy to take you through step by step. But I suspect you will give a comeback reply that puts yourself on a higher pedestal.

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:


      it could also be that you think that you are more rational... not that you actually is more rational.

       

      Well, I think I have shown on many occasions that compared to atheism, theism is much much more rational and intellectually satisfying. Creationism makes it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled theist!

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

      he is a deluded xtians like the rest.

      If deluded Christians can be more logical and rational than atheists like you, then call me deluded!

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • ZM, instead of just posting the article in part or in whole, I suggest you raise points for discussion. Also, I would suggest that we discuss over things that you believe rather than just take an article and talk over it.

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:

      WHAT ARE SCIENTOLOGY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS ABOUT THE CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE?

      Most of the world’s religions express some view of the creation of the world. Some religious traditions, such as Hindu and Buddhist, see the universe as essentially eternal, without beginning or end. The first books of the Bible contain an account of the creation of the universe, which some Christian faiths hold to be allegorical and others regard as an expression of literal fact. Other religious traditions have other views, but each attempts to explain this ultimate question of where we came from and how it occurred. In Scientology, this view flows from the theory of theta (the life force, or spirit) creating MEST (a coined word for the physical universe, Matter, Energy, Space and Time). In fact, it could be said that the creation of the universe is an inseparable part of that theory. The origins of theta and the creation of the physical universe set forth in Scientology are described in The Factors, written by L. Ron Hubbard in 1953.

      http://www.scientology.org/

      IMO religions that teaches the universe is eternal have to face the reality that the universe is NOT eternal.

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:


      No.....thats the principles of Buddhism I'm just posting it for references for others to read.

      Oh I see. But this projection theory is obviously believed strongly by atheists like Jacky who keep repeating it almost like a mantra.

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by lce:

      ancient astronaut - full of craps but interestng

      At least on this I agree with Ice. smile.png

      The idea of aliens living in far off galaxies and travelling vast distances to leave traces of their existence suffers from a myriad of problems.

       

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by despondent:

      thanks zulkifli for sharing...when i started this topic it was more to explain that it was a flawed qn to ask a creationist since God is affirmed to be infinite...also, to further emphasise that for this qn to be a valid one, God would then have to be a finite god...

      the objective is not to even try to provide a definitive answer to the qn but rather to show that this qn if its ever asked, shld be directed to the believers of a finite god and NOT to the believers of an infinite God...whether God exists or not is irrelevant here...

      Well said. The Christian can basically step aside and let this question zip by because it is clearly not aimed at the God of the Bible. But if it is, then the Christian need to correct the critic and help him to understand that the God of the Bible is infinite, eternal, having no beginning and thus begging no cause for His existence.

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:

      The God-Idea
      The reality or validity of belief in God is based on man’s understanding capacity and the maturity of the mind.

      The Development of the God-idea

      To trace the origin and development of the God-idea, one must go back to the time when civilization was still in its infancy and modern science was still unknown. Primitive people, out of fear of and admiration towards natural phenomena, had believed in different spirits and gods. They used their belief in spirit and gods to form religions of their own. According to their respective circumstances and understanding capacity different people worshipped different gods and founded different faiths.

      At the beginning of the God-idea, people worshipped many gods—gods of trees, streams, lightning, storm, winds, the sun and all other terrestrial phenomena. These gods were related to each and every act of nature. Then gradually man began to attribute to these gods, sex and form as well as the physical and mental characteristics of human beings. Human attributes were given to the gods: love, hate, jealousy, fear, pride, envy and other emotions found among human beings. From all these gods, there slowly grew a realization that the phenomena of the universe were not many but were One. This understanding gave rise to the monotheistic god of recent ages.

      In the process of development, the God-idea went through a variety of changing social and intellectual climates. It was regarded by different men in different ways. Some idealized god as the King of Heaven and Earth; they had a conception of god as a person. Others thought of god as an abstract principle. Some raised the ideal of Supreme deity to the highest heaven, while others brought it down to the lowest depths of the earth. Some pictured god in a paradise, while others made an idol and worshipped it. Some want so far as to say that there is no salvation without god?no matter how much good you do, you will not receive the fruits of your actions unless you act out of a faith in god. The Atheists said, ‘No’ and went on to affirm that god did not really exist at all. The Skeptics or Agnostics said, ‘We do not or we cannot know.’ The Positivists say that the God-idea was a meaningless problem since the idea of the term god ‘was not clear’. Thus there grew a variety of ideas and beliefs and names for the God-idea: pantheism, idolatry, belief in a formless god, and belief in many gods and goddesses.

      Even the monotheistic god of recent times has gone through a variety of changes as it passed through different nations and people. The Hindu god is quite different from gods of other faiths. Thus numerous religions came into existence: each one differed greatly from the other in the end, and each one says that ‘God is One’.

      The God-idea and Creation

      As each religion came into existence and developed around the God-idea, religion developed its own particular explanation of creation. Thus the God-idea became associated with various myths. People used the God-idea as a vehicle for their explanation of the existence of man and the nature of the universe.

      Today, intelligent men, who have carefully reviewed all the available facts, have come to the conclusion that, like the God-idea, the creation of myths must be regarded as an evolution of the human imagination which began with the misunderstanding of the phenomena of nature. These misunderstandings were rooted in the fear and ignorance of primitive man. Even today, man still retains his primitive interpretations of creation. In the light of recent, scientific thinking, the theological definition of god is vague and hence has no place in the contemporary creation theories or myths.

      If man is created by an external source, then he must belong to that source and not to himself. According to Buddhism, man is responsible for everything he does. Thus Buddhists have no reason to believe that man came into existence in the human form through any external sources. They believe that man is here today because of his own action. He is neither punished nor rewarded by anyone but himself according to his own good and bad action. In the process of evolution, the human being came into existence. However, there are no Buddha-words to support the belief that the world was created by anybody. The scientific discovery of gradual development of the world-system conforms with the Buddha’s Teachings.

      Human Weakness and the Concept of God

      Both the concept of God and its associated creation myths have been protected and defended by believers who need these ideas to justify their existence and usefulness to human society. All the believers claim to have received their respective scriptures as Revelation; in other words, they all profess to come directly from the one God. Each God-religion claims that it stands for Universal Peace and Universal Brotherhood and other such high ideals.

      However great the ideals of the religious might be, the history of the world shows that the religions up to the present day have also helped in spreading superstitions. Some have stood against science and the advancement of knowledge, leading to ill-feelings, murders and wars. In this respect, the God-religions have failed in their attempt to enlighten mankind. For example, in certain countries when people pray for mercy, their hands are stained with the blood of the morbid sacrifices of innocent animals and sometimes, even fellow human beings. These poor and helpless creatures were slaughtered at the desecrated altars of imaginary and imperceptible gods. It has taken a long time for people to understand the futility of such cruel practices in the name of religion. The time has come for them to realize that the path of real purification is through love and understanding.

      Dr. G. Dharmasiri in his book ‘Buddhist critique of the Christian Concept of God’ has mentioned, ‘I see that though the notion of God contains sublime moral strands, it also has certain implications that are extremely dangerous to the humans as well as to the other beings on this planet.

      ‘One major threat to humanity is the blindfold called ‘authority’ imposed on the humans by the concept of God. All theistic religions consider authority as ultimate and sacred. It was this danger that the Buddha was pointing at in the Kalama Sutta. At the moment, human individuality and freedom are seriously threatened by various forms of authorities. Various ‘authorities’ have been trying to make ‘you’ a follower. On top of all our ‘traditional’ authorities, a new form of authority has emerged in the name of ‘science’. And lately, the mushrooming new religions and the menace of the Gurus(as typified by Jim Jones), have become live threats to the individual’s human freedom and dignity. The Buddha’s eternal plea is for you to become a Buddha, and He showed, in a clearly rational way, that each and every one of us has the perfect potentiality and capacity to attain that ideal.’

      God-religions offer no salvation without God. Thus a man might conceivably have climbed to the highest pinnacle of virtue, and he might have led a righteous way of life, and he might even have climbed to the highest level of holiness, yet he is to be condemned to eternal hell just because he did not believe in the existence of God. On the other hand, a man might have sinned deeply and yet, having made a late repentance, he can be forgiven and therefore ‘saved’. From the Buddhist point of view, there is no justification in this kind of doctrine.

      Despite the apparent contradictions of the God-religions, it is not deemed advisable to preach a Godless doctrine since the belief in god has also done a tremendous service to mankind, especially in places where the god concept is desirable. This belief in god has helped mankind to control his animal nature. And much help has been granted to others in the name of god. At the same time, man feels insecure without the belief in god. He finds protection and inspiration when that belief is in his mind. The reality or validity of such a belief is based on man’s understanding capacity and spiritual maturity.

      However, religion should also concern our practical life. It is to be used as a guide to regulate our conduct in the world. Religion tells us what to do and what not to do. If we do not follow a religion sincerely, mere religious labels or belief in god do not serve us in our daily life.

      On the other hand, if the followers of various religions are going to quarrel and to condemn other beliefs and practices - especially to prove or disprove the existence of God - and if they are going to harbor anger towards other religions because of their different religious views, then they are creating enormous disharmony amongst the various religious communities. Whatever religious difference we have, it is our duty to practise tolerance, patience and understanding. It is our duty to respect the other man’s religious belief even if we cannot accommodate it; tolerance is necessary for the sake of harmonious and peaceful living.

      However, it does not serve any purpose to introduce this concept of god to those who are not ready to appreciate it. To some people this belief is not important to lead a righteous life. There are many who lead a noble life without such belief while amongst believers there are many who violate the peace and happiness of innocent people.

      Buddhists can also co-operate with those who hold this concept of god, if they use this concept for the peace, happiness and welfare of mankind but not with those who abuse this concept by threatening people in order to introduce this belief just for their own benefit and with ulterior motives.

      For more than 2,500 years, all over the world, Buddhists have practised and introduced Buddhism very peacefully without the necessity of sustaining the concept of a creator of God. And they will continue to sustain this religion in the same manner without disturbing the followers of other religions.

      Therefore, with due respect to other religionists, it must be mentioned that any attempt to introduce this concept into Buddhism is unnecessary. Let Buddhists maintain their belief since it is harmless to others and, let the basic Teachings of the Buddha remain.

      From time immemorial, Buddhists have led a peaceful religious life without incorporating the particular concept of God. They should be capable of sustaining their particular religion without the necessity, at this juncture, of someone trying to force something down their throats against their will. Having full confidence in their Buddha Dhamma, Buddhists should be permitted to work and seek their own salvation without any undue interference from other sources. Others can uphold their beliefs and concepts, Buddhist will uphold theirs, without any rancor. We do not challenge others in regard to their religious persuasions, we expect reciprocal treatment in regard to our own beliefs and practices.

      ooOoo

      http://www.budsas.org/ebud/whatbudbeliev/259.htm

      If I may put your post into a nutshell it is basically saying that the idea of God is born out of man's pyschological needs, a projection of man's fears and insecurities. Am I right? Is that what you now believe about religion?

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Miyuki miingguii:

      See. I knew it. No wonder more and more people turning to buddhism, witchcraft and satanism. If "god" saw what u did, he must be utterly disappointed and disgusted now. Poor thing poor thing. No offense right, since u can't even read English. 


      You are using guilt-tripping and scape-goating tactics here, and ad hominem too.

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by lce:

      u r RUBBISH


      Yes, I am Rightly Understanding Big Bang IS Hopeless.

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by lce:

      please STFU


      Thanks! I will continue Sharing Truth Fervently, and Unapologetically

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Miyuki miingguii:

      Do u understand ur making Christianity a big joke, instead of promoting it? If u wan ppl to convert to Christianity n believe ur religion, do it in a dignified manner. GOD GAVE U BRAIN FOR A REASON. USE IT. 


      No I don't understand why you think I am making Christianity a big joke. What do you mean by dignified manner? Are you or have you been a role model for that?

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:

      Despondent and BrolnChrist, are both you a priest or pastor or someone involve in Christian Organization?

       

      I am neither priest or pastor, just an ordinary Christian. ;p

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

      you didnt get his dig at you obviously..........

      Guess not.

      Well I think this comes with the territory. When the atheist sees that the Christian can refute and rebutt his arguments against the faith, the atheist must change tactic from attacking the faith to attacking the person, hoping that by somehow discrediting the person the faith can also be discredited as well.

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

      you should be skeptical of your own religion for a start. you should be tired of the tall tales originated from the Middle East. put on your thinking cap for goodness sake. dun believe everything what the holy book said, use your brain, not your heart.


      Question begging epithets in your entire reply.

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by lce:


      tot all religion teachin us GUD but u seems to be spiteful person

      did yr bible taught u tat?


      Spiteful? How so?

      Edited by BroInChrist 21 Sep `12, 2:42PM
  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

      you just have to know the type of society when these religions first sprang up....science and technology were non existent. superstitious beliefs must have reigned during that era, esp god religions. fear and unknown of nature caused man to seek solace in religion. otherwise how you have sun god, moon god, monkey god etc...........also were earthquakes, tsunamis an act of god? people thought they need to appease god, so turn to sacrifises of humans and animals. this is the fear of punishment, hence sin sprung up too.


      Just because modern science arose only a few centuries ago does not mean that everyone prior to that were ignorant and superstitious people who just invent deities to believe. You are simply commiting the fallacy of chronological snobbery.

  • Moderator
    BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

      I suggest you go read the world's religion and compare them if you have the time.

      I did, here is my conclusion.

      god is a myth and fallacy. god is invented by man due to fear of the unknown and supernatural and ignorance of the laws of nature. also partly wishful thinking in an eternal happy ever after life in heaven.

      all god religion have their tales of how the world came about etc. all claimed to be the truth. I suggest you use critical thinking and analytical thinking to think about whether god is a myth and fallacy.


      I am very skeptical of your claim to have any research on religions and their origins. You have shown no knowledge besides repeating the tiresome slogans that religion arose because of man's fears and he just invented God. Did you just read Freud?

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:


      Thanks for answering that question BrolnChrist. And thank you for being here to clearly state the Christianity stance on matters pertaining to GOD. Congratulation on your promotion of being a Moderator within this topic.


      Actually there was no promotion at all. You can moderate your own forums and invite others to be co-moderators as well by granting them mod rights. But the mod rights we enjoy are limited. We cannot control it if some big Mod decides to take the thread out of our control by lifting it from my forum and dumping it into another dead forum.