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  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Miyuki miingguii:

      If a psychiatrist ever saw what u wrote, you'll b guaranteed a trip to IMH in a police car. 

      Which one, the one you are currently seeing?

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:

      In a way like the computer systems. Computers are consist of many parts of the electronics which are assemble to create a body that works. Like a computer, the mind of the computer are not functionable without the computer chip which operates the body of the computer without it the computer is useless. However, should we compare this to the realization of the human psyche it does seems the same here…..we could operate the computer with the microchip and also we could operate a new body computer with the same old computer microchip by transferring it to the new one when the old computer is out. The old microchip from the old computer can be used for the new computer because that is where the computer database and memories exist…..then there is a new life for the computer. Like energy transform itself and then returns to the humans in living realm…yes.

      You are referring to hardware and software and transportability of software to different hardware. But the Bible refers to the resurrection of the SAME body, albeit for believers it is a glorified one.

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:


      Resurrection of the soul/spirit......which I see as thought forms and energy...energy lives within our soul/spirit and its never the same again once we are there....yes.

      The Bible refers to actual physical bodies that are also spiritual bodies. In case you think there's a contradiction there is none. I am not saying that the physical body is a spirit, but that the physical body is also a spiritual body.

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:


      utter nonsense and rubbish.......I cant bother continue reading further

      The truth hurts doesnt it? So much so that you don't wish to know more about atheism!

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

      sure you are entitled to your opinions,  sama sama.

      The issue is not about entitlement to opinions. The question is whether you have the intellectual substance to back up your claims. So far I am not seeing any.

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:


      No this quite clearly that all living things will perished and there is a whole new world after that comes in everything and in anything that lives in physical realm. We die and we can see that ourselves are not in physical form anymore but we live as in the world of intangibles.....we compose this as to make it worth to make man believes in life after death. All body of living things will die when the body is degenerated in ageing....then when we die our body are buried or cremated and it becomes ashes.....which in scientific terms organic matters and when any organic matters are burned out or decomposed....it creates a life for those who are still alive....we are an energy to those who are still living on earth plane. What happens to those energies from our dead bodies....it goes right back to the soil, water, air and the breath we breathe in.....see simple but its complex for most of us to understand.....science and theology as a religion has thought many new things new revelations to us and science too has evolved from ancient theologians that believed in knowing GOD and to understand GOD..yes.

      The Bible teaches that man is complete when he is body, soul and spirit. Death is what separates the soul/spirit from the body. But the Bible also teaches that there will be a resurrection of the dead, the body will reunite with the soul/spirit.

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

      as if your world is not inherently delusional and fictional angel.png


      That's for you to show. I have already discharged my responsibility to show that atheism is inherently delusional. Question is, are you up to the challenge or are you just contented with repeating those tiresome anti-theism slogans?

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:


      BrolnChrist, please don't do this.....excellence in persuing something that you believe has to be with a good sense of honesty and humble conscience.....right. Take as a way to know the truth....via the intangible thoughts of the humans pysche.

      Don't do what? I am simply stating atheism for what it is. Even noted atheist William Provine said, "Let me summarize my views on what modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear … There are no gods, no purposes, no goal-directed forces of any kind. There is no life after death. When I die, I am absolutely certain that I am going to be dead. That’s the end for me. There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning to life, and no free will for humans, either."

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:


      i dont believe in a best worldview.... i only believe it subjectively... there's no best worldview across board for everyone imo... dont word bash me for that for thats what i believe and im entitled to my own belief as much as anyone else here. The way your post is constructed is as though the naturalistic view is ridiculous, but thats to u, a theist.

      But for jacky, someone who doesn't believe, yours is just also equally ridiculous. Much as been exchanged and said and much logical sense has been appealed across both sides which was conveniently dismissed by both ends.

      This is why i asked jacky to stop wasting his breath for he would not subject to your belief and you would too not subject to his. In which how the engages went seemed more like name calling and seemed more like trying to force belief into each other.

      Lastly, i feel that you've been making alot of assumptions about the theist war over atheist war. Lemme reiterate that whatever prove you have raised, it could be biased and it is not absolute in proving god's existence. The only time when theism wins hands down, is when u bring god upon everyone for them to see... but that has apparently yet to happen, no prove no evidence. The same old question stands... much as atheist cant disprove the existence of god, you cant prove yours. Dont be too quick to say you are winning hands down. It shows nothing objective, other than a desire to win.

      The best worldview is that which adequately accounts for what needs to be accounted for. You can make up a list and check it off if you are serious about it. That's what I mean by theism winning atheism handsdown. Yes, assumptions will be made, and this happens on both sides of the debates. But there are assumptions and there are assumptions. You will have to judge for yourself which assumptions are reasonable and which are not. I can only show you.

      You don't think naturalism is ridiculous because you probably did not give much thought to it. Tell me, how does life comes from nonlife? How can the universe makes itself? How can a rock think? But that is essentially what atheism entails, that nonliving matter over time can change into living things with self-consciousness and can engage in reflection and think about life!

      I can defend theism with logic and reason, and I have shown it in my postings. What has Jacky done exept to pour scorn and ridicule on my beliefs? He just takes the attack mode but never made a case for atheism. You would be hardpressed to find me a cogent argument that Jacky has made for his beliefs. All he has are question-begging slogans about God being like Superman in DC comics.

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

      impossible to ask me to believe in something that does not exists and written by ignorant and uneducated folks from 2000 years ago.

      I have better things to do angel.png


      Strawman argument. I am not asking you to believe in something that does not exist.

      You have better things to do? An atheist's world is inherently meaningless. There is no ultimate purpose and meaning to whatever you do, if you are a consistent and true atheist.

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:


      Yes, that is true. However, without the holy scriptures of the world that existed throughout the ages, we humans could never envisage the portion of GOD and His Attributes. Now, let say we could define HIM in one word or in one holy scriptures, that means GOD is finite and HE is like most living things.....Life and Death I mean. Now, without the holy scriptures of the world there could never be a Religion for Mankind to follow the good attributes of GOOD GOD. I can understand people would like to see HIM, meet HIM and talk to HIM but there is no way you could see, meet and speak to HIM accept in prayers. Like a way of messaging HIM via a medium of a human beings or through your own medium that is your mind itself. How many holy scriptures in the world are there? Many but none of them could complete the knowledge of HIM in one holy scripture. HE is infinite and therefore eventhough we have millions and millions, billions and billions, trillions and trillions of holy scriptures....the list goes on.......we cannot concluded GOD and HIS Attributes within those myriad of holy scriptures that we have on earth now.

      The Bible speaks of General Revelation and the Bible itself is Special Revelation. Through the thing that are made we can know some things about God that are true.

      We can know God TRULY without knowing God FULLY. As such the Scriptures are SUFFICIENT for us to know Him. The Scriptures tells us what we NEED to know in order to be right with Him. And when the perfect comes we will know God in a more excellent way.

       

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

      since you claimed god is divine, then why use him/he when god is not in human form.

      does god has a gender? no male nor female right, since god is not human.

       

      The Bible teaches that God is Spirit and also a Person so a personal pronoun is used. The Bible also teaches that both male and female were created in the image of God. Your Bible knowledge is deficient because you are ignorant of verses in the Bible that speaks of God in a maternal way. A couple of examples will suffice to plug the gaps of ignorance you show.

      “How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!” (Matthew 23:37)

       

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:


      to belief in a book that said god created earth in 6 days written 2,000 years ago, when science is non-existent in that period. cant even get the shape of the earth correct wink.png


      You are confused between history and science. When something happened is a matter of history, not science. As to the shape of the earth, you can't even get the Bible right. The Bible talks about the circle of the earth. There you go. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c015.html

       

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:


      at least I dun think the world was created in 6 days wink.png

      My belief in all powerful God who created the world in 6 days is much more logical and sensible than your belief that the universe made itself from nothing. And your adding billions of years is merely trying to make the impossible look possible but it is certainly a delusion. Chance + Time != Universe because chance is not a causal thing. It is not even a thing. So when you really think about it, it is the atheist who believes in magic and fairy tales. wink.png

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by zulkifli mahmood:

      GOD…......isn’t like what most of us think or thought as some super human being that sees us on earth like HIS “children”. Rather is a collective of motion, evolution and emotion of the intangible of the Brain of the mankind. You see Him like some other people have told you and you see Him like those scriptures that have spoken about HIM. Neither can a human able to see GOD or HIS forms the way we have described it in the holy scriptures. Who created GOD…...is that thought able to solve this problem about GOD existence in our lives. I can only see HIM as One and that One is in one essence of HIS greatness and His Creation in the entire universe. His “form” is in the Universe and could only be seen as in all the millions and millions of galaxies and in the billions and billions of planets within the galaxies. How many of us could really define GOD because His attributes are infinite and so it is so without ending.

      Words may fail to fully define or describe the infinite God, but they are adequate so long as we remember that however we try to speak of God it will always fall short because we are talking about the infinite God. The Bible teaches that the invisible things of God are seen in the visible things that are made. The created order points and speaks about God and can tell us some things about God.

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

      the thing is their worldview is really delusional. some religion are deluded and at the same time militant, scary for the rest of the people

      And why is yours not delusional but mine is? Again making dogmatic question-begging assertions without any arguments.

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:

      jacky i tink u can save ur breath.... BIC is a believer and you are not... the way you both see things are gonna be too far apart.

      That's an excellent observation you just made!

      It all boils down to a question of worldview, which everyone has, a set of belief system with which we view the world and make sense of things. Do you now finally get the whole point I have been trying to make all this while?

      The atheist's worldview is closely tied to naturalism. This worldview colors everything he sees. No supernatural explanation or causation is allowed into his way of explaining any phenomenon he encounters. It can and must only be explained by or away in naturalistic ways. If there's no naturalistic explanation now, one will come up later eventually, by faith it will come. Even if it is ridiculous the naturalistic explanation must be maintained.

      The theist's worldview is not restricted to our five senses. Effects can have both natural or supernatural causes. Theism recognises that natural causes are incapable of doing certain things, and that certain effects are best explained by intelligence, even a supernatural one.

      It all boils down to which worldview is the best worldview to view the world with. And when you do take the time to seriously and critically compare the ability of the two worldviews of atheism and theism to explain and account for the questions of utmost significance you will realise that theism wins handsdown.

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Miyuki miingguii:

      Broinchrist. I urge u to see a psychiatrist and get diagnosed for schizophrenia before it's too late. Because you'll get a one way free ticket to IMH. 

      Can you recommend the one you are currently seeing?

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:


      what? to read the nonsense and garbage spouted by you? you call that an argument lol?

      no disrespect, but I find all the arguments from believers, all nonsense.

      Question begging epithet again which reflects a close-minded militant village atheist.

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

      god exists? where? in heaven? in the holy book? you seen god before?

      If you are willing and humble enough to follow the arguments used in the case for God, then it is worthwhile to proceed. Otherwise you will simply turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to everything I said, just like what you have been doing all this while.

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Miyuki miingguii:

      Oi broinchrist. U also made a dogmatic declaration that god exist, with no concrete proof at all. 

      What do you mean by concrete proof? I have always maintained that it is reasonable to believe that God exists, and that there is evidence that points to there being a God. And I have already shown them in many posts.

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

      god exists, prove it once and for all this age old qns since the ancient times.

      god exists in the holy books and believers, just like superman exists in DC comics.

      It is fallacious to reason that just because Superman exists only in DC comics, that therefore God only exists in Holy Books.

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

      yes its meaningless to you believers, but its also meaningless to me.

      how can something that doesnt exists be infinite, oh maybe, nothingness/empty space, infinity..........

      You confused existence with attributes. And you again made a dogmatic declaration that God does not exist, with nothing to support the claim at all.

  • Moderator
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    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

      now the key word here is believe. no I don't believe it, so god is finite is not relevant to me.

      anyway no one mentioned about god infinity or finite here, you are the one brandishing it here.

      who created god is actually irrelevant here, because how can something that does not exists  exist and was/is the figment of ancient's men imagination. just like fairy tooth. some children actually want to believe in a tooth fairy.

      The law of excluded middle applies: God is either infinite or finite.

      And you are not understanding the question or what despondent is saying. The quesion is flawed because it assumes that God is a finite being. But the Bible teaches that God is an infinite being. Therefore to ask that question is meaningless.

      You continue to dogmatically assert that God does not exist as if it is a fact and that He is merely a figment of man's imagination. Yet all you have is admittedly a BELIEF. You have absolutely no evidence to back such a dogmatic claim. Where is your evidence that God is nothing but man's imagination? On the other hand, the theist has given many lines of arguments and evidences that points to there being a God. Your ignoring them does not make them go away.

      Edited by BroInChrist 18 Sep `12, 4:41PM
  • BroInChrist's Avatar
    3,110 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Jacky Woo:

      hahaha.........Dun this sounded like you, selective reply and reasoning. you dare to accuse people of this, but not yourself?

      Selective reply? Guilty as charged. I can't possibly reply to everyone and neither is that a wise thing to do. Must learn to choose your battles wisely.

      Selective reasoning? What is that? Explain please.