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  • Cavemanzipper's Avatar
    5 posts since May '12
    • Originally posted by Hitman Chief (Barium):

      dont get con fused with interpol and ns liabilities.

      Also, in response to both of you,

      Courtesy of > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition

      Bars to extradition

      By enacting laws or concluding treaties or agreements, countries determine the conditions under which they may entertain or deny extradition requests. Common bars to extradition include:

      • Failure to fulfill dual criminality - generally the act for which extradition is sought must constitute a crime punishable by some minimum penalty in both the requesting and the requested parties.
      • Political nature of the alleged crime - most countries refuse to extradite suspects of political crimes.
      • Possibility of certain forms of punishment - some countries refuse extradition on grounds that the person, if extradited, may receive capital punishment or face torture. A few go as far as to cover all punishments that they themselves would not administer.
      • Jurisdiction - Jurisdiction over a crime can be invoked to refuse extradition. In particular, the fact that the person in question is a nation's own citizen causes that country to have jurisdiction.
      • Own nationals - Some countries, such as FranceGermany,[2] RussiaAustria, the People's Republic of China,[3] the Republic of China (Taiwan)[4] and Japan,[5] forbid extradition of their own nationals. These countries often have laws in place that give them jurisdiction over crimes committed abroad by or against citizens. By virtue of such jurisdiction, they prosecute and try citizens accused of crimes committed abroad as if the crime had occurred within the country's borders. Some nations refuse to extradite their own citizens, holding trials for the persons themselves (see e.g. trial of Xiao Zhen).
      • Death penalty - Many countries, such as AustraliaCanadaMacao,[6] Mexico, and most European nations, will not allow extradition if the death penalty may be imposed on the suspect unless they are assured that the death sentence will not be passed or carried out.
      • Torture, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment - Many countries will not extradite if there is a risk that a requested person will be subjected to torture, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. In the case of Soering v United Kingdom, the European Court of Human Rights held that it would violate Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights to extradite a person to the United States from the United Kingdom in a capital case. This was due to the harsh conditions on death row and the uncertain timescale within which the sentence would be executed.

      [edit]

  • Cavemanzipper's Avatar
    5 posts since May '12
    • Originally posted by eac:

      Source: http://www.agc.gov.sg/international/extradition.htm

       

      International Affairs Division

      Extradition

      The Attorney-General’s Chambers is Singapore’s Central Authority for Extradition Matters.  The International Affairs Division of the Attorney-General’s Chambers handles and processes all requests for Extradition in accordance with the provisions of the Extradition Act (Cap 103) and any applicable Extradition Treaty.

      Requests for Extradition

      Singapore can extradite fugitives to declared Commonwealth countries as well as countries with which Singapore has an Extradition Treaty in force, in accordance with the provisions of the Act and the applicable Extradition Treaty, as the case may be. 


      I understand that there are extradition laws in place but I also know that extradition doesn't just happen straightforwardly.
      First the appeal has to be valid, and to make it valid, a common condition is that the crime committed has to be a crime in the country you're requesting from as well.
      So things like murderers, rapists, robbers, etc. extradition would make a lot of sense, but Australia is a country that not only doesn't view avoiding compulsory military conscription as a crime, it also has humans rights groups actively fighting for the people who seek safety usually from countries of serious physical danger (ie. the Middle East).

      Though my case is not as extreme, I have quite a handful of close, personal friends who have done what i'm contemplating and by "friends" I mean they're in their mid 30s to 40s already and nothing has happened to them.

      On top of that, even after the extradition request is sent out, another country has the right to reject it outright if it doesn't seem valid. And as a PR, studying and living in Australia, and as a skilled worker no less, it's not in their best interest to hand me over for something that is not a crime in their own country.

      And let's say, after this extradition request is approved for review, I will be fighting my case in the foreign court FIRST, which would be Australian court.
      So what alize has said previously seems very accurate.

      It was something to the effect of: "Australia is allowing Singapore to operate its embassy within Australia, not the other way around, so Singapore laws don't apply in a Singapore embassy overseas."
      Which makes alot of sense because i'm sure no one has been arrested for chewing gum in a Singapore embassy overseas.

      And while I realize that it is still a grey, untouched and secretive area, I DO believe many, especially in recent years, have migrated overseas wholesale. 

  • Cavemanzipper's Avatar
    5 posts since May '12
    • @Everybody,

      Thanks for all your help and support, my decision seems much clearer now.
      And to clear something up...I know it's not a very popular choice amongst males, but I want to become a nurse.
      It's always been a dream of mine, and I was in the SJAB and Red Cross in Singapore and Malaysia, and I know that nurses are an extremely valuable and rare occupation in many countries because of the nature of their work.
      ie. Unlike a doctor, a nurse will have to bathe some of their patients or deal with their excrement, which not many will want to do but it's a job I want to bring strength in for.

      So I know that I won't be getting any compulsory job offers in Singapore for certain, because there are shortages of nurses worldwide, it's also listed highly in Australia's Skilled Worker Index which improves my migration chances and my ease of survival overseas.


      @ TIB783G

      Thank you for your honesty, it's very encouraging to know that. Might I ask, why were you exempted though? Medical reasons?

      I thoroughly believe so as well. As an individual, that 2 years of climbing up the workforce can prove invaluable.
      Althought military service looks great on a resume, it wouldn't make me feel any better to have trained myself to take lives or worse, to have just done nothing and been a storeman/clerk.

  • Cavemanzipper's Avatar
    5 posts since May '12
    • Currently, to the best of my knowledge, I think just Singapore (I'm not sure if I still have the Malaysian one since people say Singapore doesn't recognize duals, Malaysia might have renounced me automatically).

  • Cavemanzipper's Avatar
    5 posts since May '12
    • Hi, i'm 16 this year and will be going into ITE next year, then Polytechnic.
      By the time I complete my diploma in Poly, I will be 22, and I intend to find some work with that diploma, probably in Australia.

      My parents (Msia-born, then grew up in Australia), had me n my bro in Msia [some relatives there], then migrated both of us here (I was about 4 years old).
      Didn't know we were going to be liable for NS etc. so just let it pass and my parents have already made plans with my relatives in Australia to migrate there in the middle of my studies. 
      My bro was not schooling when he turned 18 so he had to enlist for NS, and he's now serving.

      When he's done in about a year more, they've decided to all migrate to Australia as planned, so i'll be the last person of my family line staying here in Singapore for those few years then doing NS on my own.

      I've spoken to them about my concerns about my liabilities and also having to stay at the army camp as my home during my service since I won't be able to afford basic accomodation with their salary, and they told me to think about it carefully for myself which is why i'm here.
      I need some second opinions...i'm a very Westernized guy because my family/household is just like that, don't forgot my parents grew up, studied and worked in Australia before giving birth to me in Malaysia, so i've got the accent and the culture in Australia is fantastic for me (been there on some family vacations).

      I don't see any reason i'd need to return to Singapore, and if i'm flying from Australia up to say, Europe, there's bound to be airlines that have stopovers in Hong Kong, Dubai or Thailand instead of Singapore, so I wouldn't ever need to be in transit here.
       
      I also don't buy into the "what if the plane needs to make an emergency landing?" myth, simply because I just won't take an airline that will be flying near/over Singapore.


      Anyway, many apologies for the long post, i'm just in a real bind.
      To the many Singaporean males who have served NS, I know you've been in a similiar seat to mine before and I applaud you for your strength to see the decision through in that direction, but I hope you'll understand my situation and advise me accordingly.
      I'm not saying i'm any different or should be treated any different from the other NS defaulters, I just want to know if I should or shouldn't, considering that if I DO do my NS, it would take away these 2 years (then reservists) which I could better spend elsewhere.

      And If I DO default, what sort of consequences am I looking at?
      Not returning to Singapore/ stopping over in transit flight?
      A criminal as far as Singapore is concerned?


      (P.S- i've spoken to MINDEF about my issue, and they basically told me I either do it when the time comes or i'm a wanted man in Singapore's eyes.)