Should Singapore Review Its Notorious Drugs Law?
-
I didnt know there are so many developed countries that dont have common sense. Are you sure we are so drug free?Originally posted by stupidissmart:I thought tis is common sense ? The more harsher the punishment the less people will commit it. Why will it logically not decrease the number of drug trafficker ? The number of drug abuse in singapore is significantly lower than the rest of the world -
I think 16 is a more humane age. 14 I would consider that paedophile.Originally posted by stupidissmart:It is the same as protecting women below 14 by introducing a law tat states having sex with them is considered rape, irregardless of whether is she willing or not. Why should singapore sacrifice the lives of these innocent people by letting drug traffickers lightly. Surely these drug traffickers know how harmful drugs is to people.
Will you be able to explain how life will be sacrifice (in high places?) -
Guess then that this proves that life imprisonment may be a more effective deterrent than the Death Penalty, contrary to what stupidissmart and company have been suggesting.Originally posted by Parka:
Yeah. Agree.
It conicides with my belief that isolation is the worst form of punishment.
the thoughtful pikamaster -
I believe the reason Singapore is save is no longer due to its harsh law and death penalty, but rather our mental development over the years.
Really ? Wat has HMI do with anything on drug abuse ? U show us a statistic of HMI and u never link it with drug abuse, isn't it out of point ? Let me help u link HMI with the problem of drug abuse.
follow the report in
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/global_illicit_drug_trends.html
u can just look at the executive summary to download.
Do u know which country suffer the most increase in drug abuse ? It is western Europe and America ! Taking a look at the world map on increase of drug abuse, America and Western Europe scores on Ecstasy, Amphetamin stimulants. They report a large increase of drug abuse in these regions. In fact, western europe have a large increase in drug abuse ranging from cannabis to heroin. The largest amount of drugs seized were from america and western europe ! If u look at HMI index provided bu Gazelle, u wil notice tat there is NO CORELATION between HMI and drug abuse situation. Taking a look at the rate of drug abuse, we can see tat in the region of singapore and malaysia where death penalty is enforced, it reported a reduction in drug abuse for all category of drugs. Looking at tis statistic, we can say tat the laws and regulations do help in reducing the problem of drug abuse. HMI means nothing. Some country with high HMI have successfully reduced drug abuse. However some other countries with high HMI stil face severe drug abuse problem.Therefore I believe that the effect of abolishing of death penalty on drug offence will not be like what stupidismarts has describe. in fact if we do that, I am sure Singapore will move up another few notches in the HMI index.
Sorry man, the statistic do follow wat I described. Punishment must remain harsh to deter potential traffickers and protect the public. When we remove the death penalty, HMI will not sudenly increase. There is no correlation between death penalty with HMI index as well
Will you become a drug addict?
The whole world doesn't revolves around u my boy. U won't go into drugs doesn't mean the other people won't.If a government is corrupted, drugs traffickers will be able to function in Singapore without the fear of being caught or punish. If what you say is true, i would assume that half the world population will be drug addicts by now. Since more countries in this world does not have death penalty for drug offences
If wat i say is true, then half of the world is facing drug abuse increase by now. Tis is true according to statistic. Wat has it got to do with corruption ? If a gov is not corrupted, the trafficker still find means and ways to transport drugs to the country.Drugs only serve to enhance nature's process of selection, the weak-minded ones die out because they need a substance to run their lives and mood swings.Therefore, if they choose to consume, all those that are affected have only themselves to blame for being sucked into the habit.No point bloodying our hands.They made a choice to consume, let their genes be cleansed from our pool, which has seen lotsa scum growing over the years.
Com'on man, going by your argument, then surely it is better for society to weed out the drug traffickers isn't it ? DO u think drug trafficker r better than drug taker ? They choose to sell drugs, they choose to harm people, so if they got caught and hanged, they have only themselves to blame. They made a point to sell drugs, then let their genes be clensed from our pool, which has seen lotsa scum growing over the years.Abolishing the death penalty should not be seen as being lenient toward traffickers but rather trying to be more humane.
Being more humane to trafficker is being more lenient towards to them. U r encouraging drug abuse to increase in singaporeDo you think the selling drugs in Singapore can be as easy as selling candy to kids in kindergarden?
No, but more drugs means drugs will become more accessible. U will see more people pushing drugs and more people become hooked to them. These people will in turn ask their friends and peers to take drugs as well. In some part of western europe and america, where control of it is lesser, u can really go and buy drugs as easily as u buy... well.. pirated softwares. Can u do tat in singapore ?Education!! Not color of your skin!!
I have said before, it depends on many factors other than education. The legislation is another important factor to consider. It has already been shown tat your assumption tat HMI is correlated with drug abuse is totally wrong.I didnt know there are so many developed countries that dont have common sense. Are you sure we are so drug free?
The comman sense had shown on these countries. In countries where they r lenient with drug trafficker, their drug abuse problems had spiralled out of control.I think 16 is a more humane age. 14 I would consider that paedophile.
The point is we protect public since their intellectual range from 5% to 95% of the population. U cannot expect tat everyone will not choose drugs just because of education. If education works, then nobody should be smoking.Will you be able to explain how life will be sacrifice (in high places?)
Wat r u talking about ?? -
Slippery Slope Fallacy. aviod it at all costs.Originally posted by stupidissmart:I expect more drug traffickers to appear, more drugs to be in singapore, more people get hooked and more chances your families, friends and loved one to become a drug addict.
the pikamaster -
Originally posted by pikamaster:Guess then that this proves that life imprisonment may be a more effective deterrent than the Death Penalty, contrary to what stupidissmart and company have been suggesting.
the thoughtful pikamaster But people only know this when they get isolated, for a long period of time.
The hit-you-in-the-face impact still comes from the death penalty. -
reductionist approach is usually inaccurate. Stupidissmart, have you even tried considering other factors responsible for the apparent success of the Death Penalty in reducing drug trafficking? Reducing it down to one factor usually results in a very inaccurate conclusion, unless that factor is pretty generic.
Taking a look at the rate of drug abuse, we can see tat in the region of singapore and malaysia where death penalty is enforced, it reported a reduction in drug abuse for all category of drugs.
the pikamaster -
People always have an option to not go against the law.
No one's pointing the gun at them telling them to traffick drugs, and hence get the capital punishment. -
reductionist approach is usually inaccurate. Stupidissmart, have you even tried considering other factors responsible for the apparent success of the Death Penalty in reducing drug trafficking? Reducing it down to one factor usually results in a very inaccurate conclusion, unless that factor is pretty generic.
U argue in a funny manner. I can not use common logic and common sense, I cannot analyse logistics, then how do u gauge wat is right or wrong ? Can u tell me why will death sentence not deter drug trafficking. Com'on I just wanna hear a possible scenario where actually reducing the harshness of a crime will result in better control of it ! -
I have downloaded the full report on world wide drug abuse and list down the statistic
In percent of population
Opiate abuse
West Europe : 0.42
East Europe : 1.08
North America : 0.48
Asia : 0.29
Global Average : 0.35
Cocaine
West Europe : 1.06
East Europe : 0.09
North America : 2.03
South America : 0.94
Asia : 0.01
Global Average : 0.33
Cannabis
West Europe : 7.16
East Europe : 3.29
North America : 7.53
South America : 4.56
Asia : 2.17
Global Average : 3.88
Amphetamines
West Europe : 0.50
East Europe : 0.50
North America : 0.82
South America : 1.04
Asia : 0.89
Global Average : 0.81
Ecstasy
West Europe : 0.78
East Europe : 0.13
North America : 1.11
South America : 0.12
Asia : 0.01
Global Average : 0.18
As can be seened, compared with the statistic on HMI, it is found tat the HMI do not have a correlation with a drug abuse problems. According to statistic, Western Europe and North America has the most severe drug abuse problem in the world. If u compared with the drug abuse problem of singpore, then u will find tat singapore is really low on drug abuse problems. -
I have found one statistic on singapore
Opiates 0.1%
Cocaine 0.01%
Cannabis 0.03%
Amphetamines 0.04%
Ecstasy 0.01%
Guess u guys should be proud of these figures. Compared it with the one I have listed above
http://www.unodc.org/pdf/WDR_2004/Chap6_drug_abuse.pdf
According to United Nations report, 5% of the population in the world is hooked on one form of drug or another. Please be thankful tat singapore it is not even 1% -
1) No. Must remain and tighten it. Drug is not good. Soften the drug law will let make more people willing to try drug. We don't want to see drug addicts all over the country.Originally posted by Gazelle:1) Do you think that Singapore should soften its law on drugs abuser (especially those who do contribute to our society)?
2) Do you think it is right for our government to execute them?
a) Marx Oh Wee Chee, 31, a director of events management company Zero
Event Concepts.
b) Tunisian Guiga Lyes Ben Laroussi, 35, marketing manager at Bobby
RubinoÂ’s restaurant and his girlfriend
c) Mariana Abdullah, 24
3) Will the ex. High Court judgeÂ’s son, Dinesh Singh Bhatia, 34, get away with a lighter sentence?
2a, b, c) All must execute. Law is fair on everyone. Anyone who commit a crime, regardless of drug trafficking, robbery or possessing weapons, must be dealt with the law.
3) No way. Even if his father is LKY, he will also be sentenced by the law.
Death penalty is still necessary. It can be used as a warning to warn everyone who want to take or possess drugs. -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
I disagree.
I have downloaded the full report on world wide drug abuse and list down the statistic
In percent of population
[b]Opiate abuse
West Europe : 0.42
East Europe : 1.08
North America : 0.48
Asia : 0.29
Global Average : 0.35
Cocaine
West Europe : 1.06
East Europe : 0.09
North America : 2.03
South America : 0.94
Asia : 0.01
Global Average : 0.33
Cannabis
West Europe : 7.16
East Europe : 3.29
North America : 7.53
South America : 4.56
Asia : 2.17
Global Average : 3.88
Amphetamines
West Europe : 0.50
East Europe : 0.50
North America : 0.82
South America : 1.04
Asia : 0.89
Global Average : 0.81
Ecstasy
West Europe : 0.78
East Europe : 0.13
North America : 1.11
South America : 0.12
Asia : 0.01
Global Average : 0.18
As can be seened, compared with the statistic on HMI, it is found tat the HMI do not have a correlation with a drug abuse problems. According to statistic, Western Europe and North America has the most severe drug abuse problem in the world. If u compared with the drug abuse problem of singpore, then u will find tat singapore is really low on drug abuse problems. [/b]
Why does Malaysia have more drug abuse problem than singapore, especially since both countries have death penalty for trafficking, and almost similar jail term for drug abuse? -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
Did you know that most western countries "allow" consumption of social drugs? It is in correct to say that drugs problem here is low is because of death penalty and most studies have shown that death penalty does not deter criminals or drug trafficking.
I have found one statistic on singapore
[b]Opiates 0.1%
Cocaine 0.01%
Cannabis 0.03%
Amphetamines 0.04%
Ecstasy 0.01%
Guess u guys should be proud of these figures. Compared it with the one I have listed above
http://www.unodc.org/pdf/WDR_2004/Chap6_drug_abuse.pdf
According to United Nations report, 5% of the population in the world is hooked on one form of drug or another. Please be thankful tat singapore it is not even 1%
[/b] -
good choice, and if i were to tell you to choose one now, i bet you would be taking life imprisonment, despite the reasons you just gaveOriginally posted by pikamaster:Guess then that this proves that life imprisonment may be a more effective deterrent than the Death Penalty, contrary to what stupidissmart and company have been suggesting.
the thoughtful pikamaster -
Amen!Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:......
so we're actually a christian nation? 
-
Btw,i think the 18 years old Hong Kong girl sentence to death for drug trafficking is too much.I mean when we all 18 years old that time,we all like stupid stupid like that,trying to find out the meaning of life n met alot of obstacles in school,home n latter on at work.I bet even the judge who sentence her to death werent happen to be that "smart" n "mature" when he was a 18 years old teenage kid,so whats make him think that he can take away the girl's life even if she happen to drug trafficking?[]
I think the judge will feel guilty for the rest of his life for his terrible mistake n "unforgiving" verdict.For law is dead,n human is alive,that is why we need a "human"judge to deal with individual cases in a flexible way.If all the offences are according to the laws stated in the books,then why the hell do we still need a "human"judge?We might as well install a "machine" in the court n sentence those convicts according to laws programming into the machine! -
Originally posted by drawer:Btw,i think the 18 years old Hong Kong girl sentence to death for drug trafficking is too much.I mean when we all 18 years old that time,we all like stupid stupid like that,trying to find out the meaning of life n met alot of obstacles in school,home n latter on at work.I bet even the judge who sentence her to death werent happen to be that "smart" n "mature" when he was a 18 years old teenage kid,so whats make him think that he can take away the girl's life even if she happen to drug trafficking?[]
I think the judge will feel guilty for the rest of his life for his terrible mistake n "unforgiving" verdict.For law is dead,n human is alive,that is why we need a "human"judge to deal with individual cases in a flexible way.If all the offences are dealed with according to the laws stated in the books,then why the hell do we still need a "human"judge?We might as well install a "machine" in the court n sentence those convicts according to laws programming into the machine! -
Sorry for double posting,but i dont know how to delete my double posts.So bo pian.
-
The law is the law. If I am the judge , I can sleep VERY easy. The death penalty is mandatory for drug traffickers. Her defence lawyer failed to prove her innocence , so that is the lawyer's fault she got hung . Simple .Originally posted by drawer:Btw,i think the 18 years old Hong Kong girl sentence to death for drug trafficking is too much.I mean when we all 18 years old that time,we all like stupid stupid like that,trying to find out the meaning of life n met alot of obstacles in school,home n latter on at work.I bet even the judge who sentence her to death werent happen to be that "smart" n "mature" when he was a 18 years old teenage kid,so whats make him think that he can take away the girl's life even if she happen to drug trafficking?[]
I think the judge will feel guilty for the rest of his life for his terrible mistake n "unforgiving" verdict.For law is dead,n human is alive,that is why we need a "human"judge to deal with individual cases in a flexible way.If all the offences are according to the laws stated in the books,then why the hell do we still need a "human"judge?We might as well install a "machine" in the court n sentence those convicts according to laws programming into the machine! -
Malaysia revised their laws MUCH later than Singapore.Originally posted by Gazelle:I disagree.
Why does Malaysia have more drug abuse problem than singapore, especially since both countries have death penalty for trafficking, and almost similar jail term for drug abuse?
Can we stopped at comparing Singapore to Western countries?
Westernised countries, like germany , australia and netherlands, legalised injecting rooms in order to prevent overdosing and adverse drug reactions in drug abusers. They do not help to quit the habit , they only help to prevent the problem which is actually compounding their problem of drugs.
Why? Because they actually think drug abusers have a right to life despite the fact that drug abusers and traffickers do not care about their life and would rather violate the rights of common citizens to get money for their drugs , or when they are in an incoherent state of drug induced fantasy . Those countries are also worried about hepatitis C going around with needle filled alleys where drug addicts and law abiding citizens may use to walk.
My point? Hang those drug traffickers- I don't give a damn if they are female or male . I don't give a damn if they have families . I don't give a damn if they are improverished - there are jobs but these people are looking for a quick buck or a way to feed their habit.
I only see the rights of law abiding citizens who toiled hard at an honest day work for a living to support their families. Why should law abiding citizens' children be placed at risk? Law abiding citizens pay their taxes to live in an orderly fashion. Law abiding citizens have a right to live and be free. Criminals , such as drug traffickers , don't.
Don't talk about morals and law . Morals are made by man , Laws are made by man - if man is wrong about the law , then man must also be wrong about morals.
Drug traffickers are aware when entering singapore that there is a death penalty , every airplane flashes that warning. In that time between the air and landing , they can walk over to the loo and flush down their drugs to avoid the death penalty.Simple logic. -
Why does Malaysia have more drug abuse problem than singapore, especially since both countries have death penalty for trafficking, and almost similar jail term for drug abuse
They belong to the same category where drug abuse is very low. U can't expect both countries to have EXACT percentage of drug abuse isn't it ? If Malaysia turns out to have lower drug abuse problem in singapore, u will complain tat death penalty is useless since singapore also enforce death penalty
Why don't u compare the statistic with one tat does not enforce death penalty ?Did you know that most western countries "allow" consumption of social drugs? It is in correct to say that drugs problem here is low is because of death penalty and most studies have shown that death penalty does not deter criminals or drug trafficking.
And the result ? 7% of their population is hooked n drugs ! U know wat 7% means ? It meant tat for every 100 person u know, 7 and higher is hooked to a danegrous substance. On average u get to know about 100 people who r drug addicts. Some of them will be your families and loved ones. U want to see tat happened ? United Nations came out with the list of dangerous drugs and it is in line with singapore stance on drugs. If u wanna complain, complain to United Nations.
Death penalty does not deter criminals ? Don't come out with empty talk, shows us the facts ! U claim tis u claim tat, and all those claims r just your own theories ! U think I thought who confirm ? Show us conclusive evidence pleaseBtw,i think the 18 years old Hong Kong girl sentence to death for drug trafficking is too much
Actually 18 years old is already old enough. People r in the army throwing grenades and shooting M16. If 18 year old r stupid and cannot think, then the officers have to fear these youngster will turn around and shoot them next. If we are lenient toward people who 18, then next we will see many 18 years old drug trafficker around.Can we stopped at comparing Singapore to Western countries?
Please note tat people who compared singapore with western countries first. They compared singapore with countries with high HMI. To prove their point surely it had to be compared with their drug abuse problem isn't it. -
If 18-year-olds can hang, then they should be given voting rights as well.
-
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA360012004?open&of=ENG-SGPOriginally posted by stupidissmart:Death penalty does not deter criminals ? Don't come out with empty talk, shows us the facts ! U claim tis u claim tat, and all those claims r just your own theories ! U think I thought who confirm ? Show us conclusive evidence please
8.3 Not an effective deterrent
Amnesty International recognizes the need to combat drug trafficking, and the harm that illicit drugs can cause. However there is no convincing evidence that the death penalty deters would-be traffickers more effectively than other punishments. There is always a risk that minor traffickers or vulnerable drug addicts will be executed, while those who mastermind the crime of trafficking evade arrest and punishment.
In the countries which impose the death penalty for drug offences Amnesty International is aware of no evidence of a decline in drug trafficking which could be clearly attributed to the threat or use of the death penalty. While certain countries have introduced the death penalty for drug offences, its use has been rejected elsewhere. Nigeria abolished the death penalty for drug offences in 1986 after several executions provoked widespread protests. Turkey abolished the death penalty for drug trafficking in 1990 as part of a general reduction in the crimes punishable by death. In Mauritius, where the death penalty for drug trafficking had been introduced in 1986, the section of the law providing for the death penalty was declared unconstitutional in 1992.
Claiming that the death penalty has been effective in controlling the trade in illicit drugs, the Singapore authorities reported an overall decline in the number of drug abusers arrested between 1994 and 2001.(37) However, despite the use of the death penalty and high execution rates, drug addiction continues to be a problem, particularly among the poorly educated, impoverished, unemployed and young people from broken homes. According to the website of the Singapore Central Narcotics Bureau (CNB), a total of 3,393 drug abusers were arrested in 2002. The number of new drug abusers increased by 16% compared to the figures for 2001. The CNB announced that it had seized 63 kilograms of heroin and 34 kilograms of cannabis during 2002, and also reported a significant increase in the use of methamphetamine. This is despite the fact that the scope of the death penalty was increased in 1998 to introduce a mandatory death sentence for importing, exporting, or trafficking in more than 250 grams of the drug.
Those convicted of more minor drugs offences also face cruel, inhuman and degrading punishment. Persistent or so-called "hardcore" drug addicts who have been admitted more than twice to a drugs rehabilitation centre are treated as criminals and may be imprisoned for up to 13 years and sentenced to caning.
Observers have drawn attention to the need to combat the social conditions which can give rise to drug abuse and addiction, rather than resorting to executions as a solution.
"The eradication of the supply of drugs is important but equally important is the alleviation of social conditions that encourage would-be traffickers or addicts. The socially excluded young and poor school dropouts are the most affected and drug addictions are disproportionately high among males with poor education... Are we assisting the socially excluded to reintegrate into society or are we disposing them off [sic] as rejects?" (3
-
IS IT EFFECTIVE AGAINST DRUG TRAFFICKERS?Originally posted by stupidissmart:Death penalty does not deter criminals ? Don't come out with empty talk, shows us the facts ! U claim tis u claim tat, and all those claims r just your own theories ! U think I thought who confirm ? Show us conclusive evidence please
There are lots of countries (most of which Asiatic) where traffic in drugs involves death penalty; half of them adopted these measures during the eighties. Hundreds of people have been executed since then. The reason that induced to turn to death penalty resides in its presumed deterrent efficaciousness, as it's obvious, against drug traffickers. However, in spite of the numerous executions, there is no convincing evidence that a decrease of drug traffic in interested countries could be attributed to the threat or application of capital punishment.
In Iran, executions for drug crimes started before the revolution in 1979. It turns out that, later, over a thousand people have been sentenced to death; and yet drug abuse and trade are still a serious problem, not solved at all.
In Malaysia, where death penalty for drug crimes is compulsory since 1983, autorities have more than once publicly acknowledged its ineffectiveness. The general detective inspector affirmed in 1985 that capital punishment didn't seem to have deterrent effects against traffickers; in 1990, the Vice-minister of the Interior affirmed that capital punishment hadn't been able to decrease drug use or traffic and there was the need of a different approach to the problem. The list of the failures could go on.
Some international organizations have discussed the matter. The UN thought about the measures to be adopted against drug traffic that:
On the grounds of many experts' experience, the fact that as utmost punishment there is death penalty doesn't imply necessarily that it has particular effects against drug traffic: as a matter of fact in some cases it could complicate Public Prosecution's activity since law courts need much higher standards of evidence if death penalty is provided (particularly if it's complsory). The most effective deterrent is surely the certainty to be discovered and arrested.
http://library.thinkquest.org/23685/data/drugs.html