Should Singapore Review Its Notorious Drugs Law?

• Parka

  9 Nov 04, 13:01

  Laws are around to protect the public. This is the very basic prinicple of law.
  
  And obviously, the death sentence is written for that purpose, to protect the public.
  
  If the death penalty doesn't act as a deterent, the death penalty should still be there to protect the public. In this case, it's not seen as a preventive measure anymore, but more of a curing measure.
  
  The main point I want to point out is, there's always an option not to commit crimes given the knowledge of the consequences.
  
  There is an option to choose.
  
  For people who goes against the law, they have choosen to go against the law. They might not have thought of the consequences, but they can think. So why shouldn't they think of the consequences.
  
  The onus is up to the person to defend himself and give a reasonable argument on why he committed the offence.
• Gazelle

  9 Nov 04, 13:24

  Originally posted by Parka:

  Laws are around to protect the public. This is the very basic prinicple of law.
  
  And obviously, the death sentence is written for that purpose, to protect the public.
  
  If the death penalty doesn't act as a deterent, the death penalty should still be there to protect the public. In this case, it's not seen as a preventive measure anymore, but more of a curing measure.
  
  The main point I want to point out is, there's always an option not to commit crimes given the knowledge of the consequences.
  
  There is an option to choose.
  
  For people who goes against the law, they have choosen to go against the law. They might not have thought of the consequences, but they can think. So why shouldn't they think of the consequences.
  
  The onus is up to the person to defend himself and give a reasonable argument on why he committed the offence.

  There are also options which we could use to deter drugs offence, such as drug awareness compaign and tighten our check at the airport.
  
  And why isnt there death sentence for rapist?
  
  
• stupidissmart

  9 Nov 04, 13:41

  First, I don't really trust the articles written by Amnesty International. They tend to exaggerate the claims and assume tat the world is a perfect place
  
  

  However there is no convincing evidence that the death penalty deters would-be traffickers more effectively than other punishments

  If u read carefully, it is shown tat there is statistic tat shows death penalty do deters traffickers. It is just tat they do not like them
  
  

  There is always a risk that minor traffickers or vulnerable drug addicts will be executed, while those who mastermind the crime of trafficking evade arrest and punishment.

  We always want to catch the big boss too. But surely it is no easy task. Just because we cannot catch the big boss doesn't means we can let their subordinates free to create hell
  
  

  In the countries which impose the death penalty for drug offences Amnesty International is aware of no evidence of a decline in drug trafficking which could be clearly attributed to the threat or use of the death penalty

  It should be viewed tat ALL the other nations r facing an increase problem of drug abuse. Being stabilise or mild decrease is a potential positive effect
  
  

  Claiming that the death penalty has been effective in controlling the trade in illicit drugs, the Singapore authorities reported an overall decline in the number of drug abusers arrested between 1994 and 2001.(37) However, despite the use of the death penalty and high execution rates, drug addiction continues to be a problem, particularly among the poorly educated, impoverished, unemployed and young people from broken homes

  Reading tis carefuly, it admit the figures do decline in singapore. Most drugs problem start in poorly educated, impoverished, unemployed and young people from broken homes in every part of the world. The key word is there is a reduction in the number
  
  

  According to the website of the Singapore Central Narcotics Bureau (CNB), a total of 3,393 drug abusers were arrested in 2002. The number of new drug abusers increased by 16% compared to the figures for 2001. The CNB announced that it had seized 63 kilograms of heroin and 34 kilograms of cannabis during 2002, and also reported a significant increase in the use of methamphetamine. This is despite the fact that the scope of the death penalty was increased in 1998 to introduce a mandatory death sentence for importing, exporting, or trafficking in more than 250 grams of the drug.

  It had fail to report the world wide trend of increased drug abuse throughout the world.Other coutries had higher increase compared to singapore. It do not show a general period between 1990-2000 but reflect statistic of single year.
  
  

  Those convicted of more minor drugs offences also face cruel, inhuman and degrading punishment. Persistent or so-called "hardcore" drug addicts who have been admitted more than twice to a drugs rehabilitation centre are treated as criminals and may be imprisoned for up to 13 years and sentenced to caning.

  It had said the key word. They had been caught twice for drug abuse. If u r a first time offender, u r not going to suffer the above mentioned treatment. if u r caught twice, by studies u r gonna be caught many times later.
  
  

  The eradication of the supply of drugs is important but equally important is the alleviation of social conditions that encourage would-be traffickers or addicts. The socially excluded young and poor school dropouts are the most affected and drug addictions are disproportionately high among males with poor education... Are we assisting the socially excluded to reintegrate into society or are we disposing them off [sic] as rejects

  Which country has been successful in alleviating social conditions ? Every country have their share of social rejects. DO u think America do not have these people ?
  
  

  In Iran, executions for drug crimes started before the revolution in 1979. It turns out that, later, over a thousand people have been sentenced to death; and yet drug abuse and trade are still a serious problem, not solved at all.

  He had said it himself. IRAN. Why compare to such country ?
  
  

  In Malaysia, where death penalty for drug crimes is compulsory since 1983, autorities have more than once publicly acknowledged its ineffectiveness. The general detective inspector affirmed in 1985 that capital punishment didn't seem to have deterrent effects against traffickers; in 1990, the Vice-minister of the Interior affirmed that capital punishment hadn't been able to decrease drug use or traffic and there was the need of a different approach to the problem. The list of the failures could go on.

  Wat is the comment recently ? The last coment is 15 years ago and now the situation has changed a lot.
  
  

  On the grounds of many experts' experience, the fact that as utmost punishment there is death penalty doesn't imply necessarily that it has particular effects against drug traffic: as a matter of fact in some cases it could complicate Public Prosecution's activity since law courts need much higher standards of evidence if death penalty is provided (particularly if it's complsory). The most effective deterrent is surely the certainty to be discovered and arrested.

  We do it both ways. Discover and arrest + deterence with high punishment. It had proven to be effective
  
  

  There are also options which we could use to deter drugs offence, such as drug awareness compaign

  If education works, there will not have smokers in singapore
  
  

  and tighten our check at the airport.

  Singapore is viewed as havign teh tightest check internationally. Not enough ?
  
  

  And why isnt there death sentence for rapist

  When u rape, u only affect 1 person. When u drug trafficking, u cause harm to hundreds of them. Tis one person, though scarred for life, still can led a more meaningful life than being a drug addict. She is not dead, she is not brain daamaged, society had changed their view towards such victims and she can live a better life than drug addicts. U might as well say why not give the death penalty to littering ?
• iveco

  9 Nov 04, 13:50

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  First, I don't really trust the articles written by Amnesty International. They tend to exaggerate the claims and assume tat the world is a perfect place
  
  When u rape, u only affect 1 person. When u drug trafficking, u cause harm to hundreds of them. Tis one person, though scarred for life, still can led a more meaningful life than being a drug addict. She is not dead, she is not brain daamaged, society had changed their view towards such victims and she can live a better life than drug addicts. U might as well say why not give the death penalty to littering ?

  Same with murder. There is a limit to how many persons one can kill. Drug consumption harms the masses.
• Gazelle

  9 Nov 04, 13:55

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:
  [b]Reading tis carefuly, it admit the figures do decline in singapore. Most drugs problem start in poorly educated, impoverished, unemployed and young people from broken homes in every part of the world. The key word is there is a reduction in the number
  b]

  You have earlier say that Human Development Index has got no relation with drug abuse, would you care to explain your sudden change in opinion?
• thinger

  9 Nov 04, 14:01

  "When u rape, u only affect 1 person. When u drug trafficking, u cause harm to hundreds of them. Tis one person, though scarred for life, still can led a more meaningful life than being a drug addict. She is not dead, she is not brain daamaged, society had changed their view towards such victims and she can live a better life than drug addicts. U might as well say why not give the death penalty to littering ?"
  
  you're forgetting that when someone rapes someone, the affected party DOES NOT WANT and DOES NOT CONSENT to being raped.
  
  a dealer doesnt FORCE a drug user to purchase and use substances. the drug user alone makes the decision to obtain and use drugs - its not the fault of the dealer.
  
  and "she is not dead, she is not brain daamaged, society had changed their view towards such victims and she can live a better life than drug addicts..."
  -->she might not be physically hurt (she could be), but mentally...he(haha) or she would NEVER be the same person ever again psychologically.
  
  singapore needs to educate the public on drugs. properly. the education i went thru (really not so long ago) was......theres only one way of putting it: BULLSHIT. in moral education lessons we were told "oh, drugs are bad, dont do them" and stuff like that. if parents tell their kid not to do something, they usually are even MORE inclined to try and do it to rebel. if parents educated their kids propelrly, they wouldnt do something because they;'d know about the detrimental effects and such...
  
  hence, maybe if the education for drugs (and sex too at that) was changed around, it might not be a problem.
  
  also, singapore labels EVERY SINGLE drug user as a "Drug Addict". There is a fine distinction between a "User" and an "Addict"...but the mentaility that "everyone who has touched drugs is an addict" is extremely prevailant in singapore. and drug users arent bad people. the feeling i get when in singapore is that drug users are the scum of society. how different are they to a normal person? not very...
• Gazelle

  9 Nov 04, 14:14

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  When u rape, u only affect 1 person. When u drug trafficking, u cause harm to hundreds of them. Tis one person, though scarred for life, still can led a more meaningful life than being a drug addict. She is not dead, she is not brain daamaged, society had changed their view towards such victims and she can live a better life than drug addicts. U might as well say why not give the death penalty to littering ?

  a) Is 15g of heroin is enough for hundreds people to consume? teach me how you do that?
  
  b) Would you be affected if your sister, daughter or mother got gang rape?
  
  c) Are you saying from experience of being raped or making assumption that rape victim can led a more meaningful life than a EX-drug addict?
  
  d) I would like to know how can you indentify rape victim? If not, what are you talking aobut?
  
  e) And what make you think that ex-drug addict are not accepted by this society? I thought I have seen commerical and documentary on how drug addict kick their habit and turn over a new leaf. You mean you didnt know?
  
  
• thinger

  9 Nov 04, 14:18

  speaking of penalties...
  can anyone give me the lowdown on penalities now?
  
  i used to know that i was like the death sentence for 3grams (or something like that) of heroin...has that changed?
  
  and how about E, weed, and other things?
• iveco

  9 Nov 04, 14:20

  Originally posted by thinger:

  speaking of penalties...
  can anyone give me the lowdown on penalities now?
  
  i used to know that i was like the death sentence for 3grams (or something like that) of heroin...has that changed?
  
  and how about E, weed, and other things?

  It is 15g, not 3g.
  
  So far, capital punishment for weed has been 1.5kg, if I'm not mistaken.
• Gazelle

  9 Nov 04, 14:20

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:
  [b]Singapore is viewed as havign teh tightest check internationally. Not enough ?b]

  I only know that have strick laws. Can you support your statement about CHECKS. From my experience, the tightest check is in Jedah of Saudi Arabia, and Singapore check point is definitely far from that.
• thinger

  9 Nov 04, 14:23

  1.5kg of weed?
  ha..so what does one get with less than an ounce of it? just rehab?
• Gazelle

  9 Nov 04, 14:25

  Originally posted by iveco:

  It is 15g, not 3g.
  
  So far, capital punishment for weed has been 1.5kg, if I'm not mistaken.

  Weed is 500gm...
• stupidissmart

  9 Nov 04, 14:25

  You have earlier say that Human Development Index has got no relation with drug abuse, would you care to explain your sudden change in opinion?

  Reading tis carefuly, it admit the figures do decline in singapore. Most drugs problem start in poorly educated, impoverished, unemployed and young people from broken homes in every part of the world. The key word is there is a reduction in the number
  
  I meant in a country. In a country where everything else is the same (emphasis is on legal system), then the poorly educated, impoverish, unemployed and young people from broken homes r more prone to drug abuse
  
  

  you're forgetting that when someone rapes someone, the affected party DOES NOT WANT and DOES NOT CONSENT to being raped.

  When u have sex with a minor, u got their consent. They want to have sex with u, they can even tempt u, they can even charge u money, but nevertheless u still got charged with rape. Why they set tis law ? It is to protect the general public which intellectual range from 5% to 95% of the population
  
  

  a dealer doesnt FORCE a drug user to purchase and use substances. the drug user alone makes the decision to obtain and use drugs - its not the fault of the dealer.

  The principal offence is they carry that amount of drug with them. U carry tat amount of drug with u, u got charged with trafficking. An arms dealer doesn't force anyone to buy its arm as well. But the act of having arms is the offence tat deserves death. Why is the use of arms for ? Wat is the possible use of drugs ? To be abused isn't it ?
  
  

  she might not be physically hurt (she could be), but mentally...he(haha) or she would NEVER be the same person ever again psychologically.

  I believe physically hurt, most of the time, is more disturbing than mentally hurt. U prefer to be brain dead to the point of being a moron or prefer to be ceased as a virgin (some r not virgin initially by the way) ? If u hurt the girl during rape, tat will act as additional offence (grievious hurt or hurt) against tat guy so it can be treated as a different issue.
  
  

  singapore needs to educate the public on drugs. properly. the education i went thru (really not so long ago) was......theres only one way of putting it: BULLSHIT. in moral education lessons we were told "oh, drugs are bad, dont do them" and stuff like that. if parents tell their kid not to do something, they usually are even MORE inclined to try and do it to rebel. if parents educated their kids propelrly, they wouldnt do something because they;'d know about the detrimental effects and such...

  How do u want the education to go then ? Throughout the world, drug education is similar to tis...
  
  

  also, singapore labels EVERY SINGLE drug user as a "Drug Addict". There is a fine distinction between a "User" and an "Addict"...but the mentaility that "everyone who has touched drugs is an addict" is extremely prevailant in singapore. and drug users arent bad people.

  Sorry man, I label drug addicts as one tat was addicted to drug, not drug user. If u r the one tat was caught for 1 time but kick the habit indefinitely, then he is one tat deserve sympathy. If he is the one tat goes to drug rehab 2 times or more, than clearly he is a drug addict.
  
  

  the feeling i get when in singapore is that drug users are the scum of society.

  According to laserlords.. he thinks they r...
• Gazelle

  9 Nov 04, 14:25

  Originally posted by Gazelle:

  I only know we have strick laws. Can you support your statement about CHECKS. From my experience, the tightest check is in Jedah of Saudi Arabia, and Singapore check point is definitely far from that.

• Gazelle

  9 Nov 04, 14:33

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  Sorry man, I label drug addicts as one tat was addicted to drug, not drug user. If u r the one tat was caught for 1 time but kick the habit indefinitely, then he is one tat deserve sympathy. If he is the one tat goes to drug rehab 2 times or more, than clearly he is a drug addict.
  

  I am surprise to hear a word of sympathy from you my BOY!!
  
  So what if someone is caught for the 1st time with 15g of heroin which is meant for personal consumption, and he is just a drug user and not addict. will he still deserve to be hang?
  
  
• stupidissmart

  9 Nov 04, 14:34

  Is 15g of heroin is enough for hundreds people to consume? teach me how you do that?

  Yes. Do u know tat the drug u see on the street is not pure ? The purity need to be only less than a gram to sell as a sachet. Why will one carry few ten sachets on the road other than to sell ?
  
  

  Would you be affected if your sister, daughter or mother got gang rape?

  Will u be affected if all your brothers and sisters became drugs addicts and subsequently die or become morons ? Com'on u r giving extreme examples. It will be fair to judge 1 trafficker to 1 rapist, NOT 1 trafficker to many rapists
  
  

  Are you saying from experience of being raped or making assumption that rape victim can led a more meaningful life than a EX-drug addict?

  Seems to be a personal remark on me U r the one tat start to bring in rape first, so u must have felt being raped is a traumatic thing to experience ?
  
  

  would like to know how can you indentify rape victim? If not, what are you talking aobut?

  Wat r u talking about ?
  
  

  And what make you think that ex-drug addict are not accepted by this society? I thought I have seen commerical and documentary on how drug addict kick their habit and turn over a new leaf. You mean you didnt know?

  Surely it beats a rape victims right ? Rape victims will have understanding boy friend with them, concern parent to take care of them and society help them. Better than a drug abuser isn't it ?
  
  

  I only know that have strick laws. Can you support your statement about CHECKS. From my experience, the tightest check is in Jedah of Saudi Arabia, and Singapore check point is definitely far from that.

  I didn't say tat singapore is the strictest country in the world. It is one of the strictest. Tat is why america let singapore passengers to go through their customs easier isn't it ? From your experience ? It doens't really mean a thing.
  
  
• stupidissmart

  9 Nov 04, 14:37

  So what if someone is caught for the 1st time with 15g of heroin which is meant for personal consumption, and he is just a drug user and not addict. will he still deserve to be hang?

  u know how long 15 g is gonna last u ? WEEKS. Why will u be carrying such a big amount of drugs with u other than to sell it ? U think drug abusers r stupid and don't know the amount of drugs needed to be in death penalty ? They knew it better than the police ! He is a drug trafficker ! He is not a user !
• Gazelle

  9 Nov 04, 14:38

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  I believe physically hurt, most of the time, is more disturbing than mentally hurt. U prefer to be brain dead to the point of being a moron or prefer to be ceased as a virgin (some r not virgin initially by the way) ? If u hurt the girl during rape, tat will act as additional offence (grievious hurt or hurt) against tat guy so it can be treated as a different issue.
  

  ???????
  
  
• thinger

  9 Nov 04, 14:41

  
  
  quote:
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  When u have sex with a minor, u got their consent. They want to have sex with u, they can even tempt u, they can even charge u money, but nevertheless u still got charged with rape. Why they set tis law ? It is to protect the general public which intellectual range from 5% to 95% of the population
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  who said anything about minors? i thought the issue was rape amongst adults vs drug usage.
  
  quote:
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  The principal offence is they carry that amount of drug with them. U carry tat amount of drug with u, u got charged with trafficking. An arms dealer doesn't force anyone to buy its arm as well. But the act of having arms is the offence tat deserves death. Why is the use of arms for ? Wat is the possible use of drugs ? To be abused isn't it ?
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  if you put if that way: that the charge is for carrying an amount, not being a dealer,...then fine. but how does one differentiate between a trafficker and a user? 15g of heroin...its a fair bit but how many people could you sell to?
  
  and for weed, i think its a bit harsh that it carries such heavy penalties.
  
  quote:
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  I believe physically hurt, most of the time, is more disturbing than mentally hurt. U prefer to be brain dead to the point of being a moron or prefer to be ceased as a virgin (some r not virgin initially by the way) ? If u hurt the girl during rape, tat will act as additional offence (grievious hurt or hurt) against tat guy so it can be treated as a different issue.
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  if you think physiological effects of rape are worse than psychological effects, you're an - no offence - idiot.
  
  quote:
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  How do u want the education to go then ? Throughout the world, drug education is similar to tis...
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  thats actually quite untrue.
  
  quote:
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  also, singapore labels EVERY SINGLE drug user as a "Drug Addict". There is a fine distinction between a "User" and an "Addict"...but the mentaility that "everyone who has touched drugs is an addict" is extremely prevailant in singapore. and drug users arent bad people.
  
  ->>Sorry man, I label drug addicts as one tat was addicted to drug, not drug user. If u r the one tat was caught for 1 time but kick the habit indefinitely, then he is one tat deserve sympathy. If he is the one tat goes to drug rehab 2 times or more, than clearly he is a drug addict.
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  
• Gazelle

  9 Nov 04, 14:45

  Originally posted by stupidissmart:

  u know how long 15 g is gonna last u ? WEEKS. Why will u be carrying such a big amount of drugs with u other than to sell it ? U think drug abusers r stupid and don't know the amount of drugs needed to be in death penalty ? They knew it better than the police ! He is a drug trafficker ! He is not a user !

  You are not answering to my question. 15g is only a weight of a 20cent coin. a lot? I dont think so.
• thinger

  9 Nov 04, 14:48

  quote:
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  also, singapore labels EVERY SINGLE drug user as a "Drug Addict". There is a fine distinction between a "User" and an "Addict"...but the mentaility that "everyone who has touched drugs is an addict" is extremely prevailant in singapore. and drug users arent bad people.
  
  ->>Sorry man, I label drug addicts as one tat was addicted to drug, not drug user. If u r the one tat was caught for 1 time but kick the habit indefinitely, then he is one tat deserve sympathy. If he is the one tat goes to drug rehab 2 times or more, than clearly he is a drug addict.
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  why is one an addict when they go to rehab 2 times or more?
  
  how are some drugs (e, weed, stuff like that) considered to be so bad even though they're not?
  
  singapores drug education is retarded. even the no smoking campaigns are ridiculous...in my primary school days...which were recent enough, ad's telling that "one puff will hook you" were all over the place. pictures of screwed up arteries and lungs were all over the place too.
  
  one puff will hook you - is bs.
  
  and showing pictures of screwed up body parts isnt enough. kids have to be able to relate to the pictures...theyve got to be educated properly. they have to know that pros and cons of things.
  
  education in general, in singapore, seems to be "its like this...it just is...learn it and dont ask why". tell me im wrong?
• thinger

  9 Nov 04, 14:49

  15g is a fair bit, but if the users of it are...how would you say...discerning, and it's taken pure or not too 'diluted', it wouldnt be that much.
• stupidissmart

  9 Nov 04, 14:51

  who said anything about minors? i thought the issue was rape amongst adults vs drug usage.

  No, rape includes sex with an underage too. These r charged as rape as well
  
  

  if you put if that way: that the charge is for carrying an amount, not being a dealer,...then fine. but how does one differentiate between a trafficker and a user? 15g of heroin...its a fair bit but how many people could you sell to?
  
  and for weed, i think its a bit harsh that it carries such heavy penalties.
  

  Potentially more than twenty people.
  
  

  if you think physiological effects of rape are worse than psychological effects, you're an - no offence - idiot.

  If u think tat being maimed, moron, perform undesirable deeds when u r addicted (forced to prostitution for money, steal), having kidney, liver, lung, brain failure for the whole life is better than being rape then I have nothing to say
  
  

  thats actually quite untrue.

  Why don't u propose your ideal education for drugs ?
  
  
• thinger

  9 Nov 04, 14:54

  i know rape includes underaged kids, but i thought the issue was only "adult rape". so - my bad.
  
  id would give you a plan for drug ed., but thats not my job. if i was employed i would.
  
  is 20 people that many?
  
  and what drugs are you talking about?
• iveco

  9 Nov 04, 14:57

  Wah lau, from cocaine abuse, this thread can become one on gang rape. Getting too far off topic liao.