Should Singapore Review Its Notorious Drugs Law?
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You are not answering to my question. 15g is only a weight of a 20cent coin. a lot? I dont think so.
U know nothing. I said before, it was diluted to many times its weight before they sell it to people. In singapore they considered the weight of its pure form, not mixture weight. If u take drug in their pure form, u will die straighthow are some drugs (e, weed, stuff like that) considered to be so bad even though they're not?
They r. It is stated by united nations. U wanna complain, complain to themsingapores drug education is retarded. even the no smoking campaigns are ridiculous...in my primary school days...which were recent enough, ad's telling that "one puff will hook you" were all over the place. pictures of screwed up arteries and lungs were all over the place too.
They had tried very hard on tis. Why don't u give a better suggestion on how to educate ? Singaporean have tis fault of complaining too much without giving suggestionsone puff will hook you - is bs.
Tis is true for some people.education in general, in singapore, seems to be "its like this...it just is...learn it and dont ask why". tell me im wrong?
U sure ? Do they tell u "learn it and don't ask why " ? Tell it to MOE and let them investigate about tis.15g is a fair bit, but if the users of it are...how would you say...discerning, and it's taken pure or not too 'diluted', it wouldnt be that much.
U will die. Nobody in the world take drug in their pure form. Those who do find tat foams will gather around their mouth pretty soon. -
is 20 people that many
Why will u carry 20 or more sachets of drugs which can give u the death penalty other than u selling it ? If u r a seller, u r a drug trafficker -
At least I have the chance to experience walking through airports from over 40 countries around the world and use my realy life experience to support my argument. Can I know how many check points have been through in your entire life?Originally posted by stupidissmart:I didn't say tat singapore is the strictest country in the world. It is one of the strictest. Tat is why america let singapore passengers to go through their customs easier isn't it ? From your experience ? It doens't really mean a thing.
Contrary to what you have said, I think Singapore airport has the least in coming checks, except for their checked in luggage. And guess what drug smuggler usually hand carry their drugs.
I dont think you understand anything USA VISA Waiver programe and trust me, it has nothing to do with how your check your airport. -
At least I have the chance to experience walking through airports from over 40 countries around the world and use my realy life experience to support my argument. Can I know how many check points have been through in your entire life?
WOW WOW WOW ! Hear ye hear ye ! Listen everybody ! Gazelle go to 40 over airports in the world and therefore had been promoted to a BIG FCUK ! I am soOooOOoo impressed about such amazing accomplishments ! After going through 40 over airports, he thought everything he said are LAWS ! He begin to depise people who had travelled lesser airports in the world ! Oh Boy oh boy, aren't tat some of the special powers a BIG FCUK is previledge to do. -
I think you watch too many movies....peh tahan!!!Originally posted by stupidissmart:U will die. Nobody in the world take drug in their pure form. Those who do find tat foams will gather around their mouth pretty soon. -
Why don't you become the human guinea pig and make a video for us to see?Originally posted by Gazelle:I think you watch too many movies....peh tahan!!!
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Stop being childish. If it is your intention to impress anyone or everyone here with your so call "stupid is smart" theory, by all means go ahead, dont rub me in. If you have nothing to say about what you wanna say, just keep quite.Originally posted by stupidissmart:WOW WOW WOW ! Listen everybody ! Gazelle go to 40 over airports in the world and therefore had been promoted to a BIG FCUK ! I am soOooOOoo impressed about such amazing accomplishments ! After going through 40 over airports, everything he said are LAWS !
From last few posting, you seem to be reflecting a rather childish side of you. And that make me wonder if you are matured enough to discuss about death penalty in this forum...
take it easy...MY BOY!!! -
Childish ? Who is the childish one here ? Who is the one tat wants to start comparing the number of airports he had visited ? Just because your dad can bring u to places doesn't means u r any good.
Don't want to discuss, don't discuss lor... I think the general readers already have an impression on death penalty for drug traffickers. -
Originally posted by Gazelle:There are also options which we could use to deter drugs offence, such as drug awareness compaign and tighten our check at the airport.
And why isnt there death sentence for rapist?
The law is fair to a certain degree.
If one creates death, one gets death.
If one is a litterbug, one gets a fine.
Not sure what are the criterias involve in coming up with a comparable sentence.
But the law will always try to "return" the same impact that one has caused, never more, never less. Same principle applies to those civil cases like Silk Air plane crash and Slim10.
Rape doesn't cause death, and will never cause death. And it affects 1 person. Hence the sentence is the standard 8 - 20 yrs jail term and caning.
I don't know if psychological damage of the victim is considered in the case. But I do think it hasn't an impact of the sentence.
I remembered a serial rapist being locked away for a long time because of the number of charges. -
I havent heard of anyone in Singapore who was killed because of drug overdose. There one cannot say that a drug trafficker did kill someone and deserve death sentence in return.Originally posted by Parka: The law is fair to a certain degree.
If one creates death, one gets death.
If one is a litterbug, one gets a fine.
Not sure what are the criterias involve in coming up with a comparable sentence.
But the law will always try to "return" the same impact that one has caused, never more, never less. Same principle applies to those civil cases like Silk Air plane crash and Slim10.
Rape doesn't cause death, and will never cause death. And it affects 1 person. Hence the sentence is the standard 8 - 20 yrs jail term and caning.
I don't know if psychological damage of the victim is considered in the case. But I do think it hasn't an impact of the sentence.
I remembered a serial rapist being locked away for a long time because of the number of charges. -
I have heard of cases where people, after taking ecstasy, died of dehydration in singapore.
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Originally posted by Gazelle:I havent heard of anyone in Singapore who was killed because of drug overdose. There one cannot say that a drug trafficker did kill someone and deserve death sentence in return. You have to factor in the impact on society as well.
Remember the law is here to protect, not to punish. -
What cure can it give? You seem treat drug trafficking like pest control. Does Hanging one drug trafficker stop everybody from obtainign drugs? No!Originally posted by Parka: Laws are around to protect the public. This is the very basic prinicple of law.
And obviously, the death sentence is written for that purpose, to protect the public.
If the death penalty doesn't act as a deterent, the death penalty should still be there to protect the public. In this case, it's not seen as a preventive measure anymore, but more of a curing measure.
The main point I want to point out is, there's always an option not to commit crimes given the knowledge of the consequences.
There is an option to choose.
For people who goes against the law, they have choosen to go against the law. They might not have thought of the consequences, but they can think. So why shouldn't they think of the consequences.
The onus is up to the person to defend himself and give a reasonable argument on why he committed the offence.
the vehement pikaamster -
Funny. everyone talks about the Death penalty as a suitable punnishment for the crime, and yet you are blatantly dismissing the fact.Originally posted by Parka: You have to factor in the impact on society as well.
Remember the law is here to protect, not to punish. -
What cure can it give? You seem treat drug trafficking like pest control. Does Hanging one drug trafficker stop everybody from obtainign drugs? No!
Does hanging drug trafficker stop everyone from obtaining drugs ? Ehhh... yes. The drugs have to come from drug trafficker themselves isn't it ? The statistic do show tat death penalty do work wonder for drug abuse problem.Funny. everyone talks about the Death penalty as a suitable punnishment for the crime, and yet you are blatantly dismissing the fact.
Dismissing wat facts ? We protect the public by stopping the criminals. Tat is how law works isn't it ?
Letys play with some figure shall we
According to the report on singapore, there were a total of 0.19% of population being drug abusers. (assuming no overlap of data between the different drugs) Singapore population is 4,000,000. Tat makes the figure to be 7600 drug addicts in singapore. Lets suppose if hanging for drug trafficker is removed, we will follow the statistic on the figures on Asia. (Take note tat China, malaysia and many countries in asia do hanged drug traffickers. If we do not do any extraordinary things, we should expect to be normal compared with other nations) The total population will rise to 3.37%. Tat is still below the global average therefore it is believable. Wat will be the number of drug abuser then ? 134800. In short u have succeeded in making 127200 more people into drug taker because u refuse to show justice to 20 people in a year. Lets say 1 % of these people die or become badly brain damaged. Congratulations ! U have killed 1348 people ! Lets say again 20% of these people become theft or prostitute to support their drug habbit. We will see tat u had ruined 26960 people ! u do the maths and see if it is worth it or not. If u want to make it realistic and divde these whole figure by 10, u will still see u had ruined more people's lives than save it. -
maybe humans are pests?Originally posted by pikamaster:What cure can it give? You seem treat drug trafficking like pest control. Does Hanging one drug trafficker stop everybody from obtainign drugs? No!
the vehement pikaamster
hanging does have an effect, at least the more cowardly ones would stop -
parka's not "dismissing the fact" he\she is actually trying to give a reason for his\her viewsOriginally posted by pikamaster:Funny. everyone talks about the Death penalty as a suitable punnishment for the crime, and yet you are blatantly dismissing the fact.
and i feel that rapists should be castrated, not just jailed -
Originally posted by pikamaster:Funny. everyone talks about the Death penalty as a suitable punnishment for the crime, and yet you are blatantly dismissing the fact. Punishment is the result of the protection the law gives.
Please don't have the mentality that the law is out to punish people. Good grief. Why would the law want to punish people?
Actually, I'm trying to avoid refering to the death penalty as a punishment. It's a form of protection, in my opinion. It's a half glass empty or full concept that has no meaning.
I learnt some of the basic principles straight from a lawyer. So I'm just stating what I've learnt and applied it. -
Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:parka's not "dismissing the fact" he\she is actually trying to give a reason for his\her views
and i feel that rapists should be castrated, not just jailed I'm a he.
Castrating would put us a few years back on the path to being a developed country. -
Originally posted by Gazelle:
15g of pure heroin = narcotised = od death. Pure form is deadly
a) Is 15g of heroin is enough for hundreds people to consume? teach me how you do that?
The aggressor's family will be affected in many ways unexpected when this happens to my family .....that you don't want to know.
b) Would you be affected if your sister, daughter or mother got gang rape?
No . The ex drug addict leads a more meaningful life if he returns to society as a contributing citizen while a rape victim is psychologically scarred.
c) Are you saying from experience of being raped or making assumption that rape victim can led a more meaningful life than a EX-drug addict?
Why are you even comparing ?
d) I would like to know how can you indentify rape victim? If not, what are you talking aobut?
Then probably when they find life is not giving the kick they need, they return to it. However there are some who genuinely quit drugs.
e) And what make you think that ex-drug addict are not accepted by this society? I thought I have seen commerical and documentary on how drug addict kick their habit and turn over a new leaf. You mean you didnt know?
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First issue:If u think tat being maimed, moron, perform undesirable deeds when u r addicted (forced to prostitution for money, steal), having kidney, liver, lung, brain failure for the whole life is better than being rape then I have nothing to say
-->okay well this can be solved quite easily. think about it, its basic economics. its basic microeconomics. why are drugs so expensive? its because theres a high demand for them, in comparison to the supply. if drug laws were more lenient, more drugs would be available, thus, prices would drop too.
but that brings the problem of......if more drugs were available, more people would be inclined to buy. thats were the education bit comes in. back to the "mother-father-and-kiddy" analogy...this time in the kitchen: how many parents keep their kids away from hot stoves, oven, and other things in the kitchen once they're old enough to think a bit? NONE. fair enough, maybe babies and young kids are kept out of the kitchen for their own saftey,...but once they're old enough, kids KNOW that touching a hot object will hurt them - the point being that its all in the education. if singapore educates the public properly, the public would be genereally more informed as to what and (more importantly) WHY something is bad for them.
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Second issue:
Q: how are some drugs (e, weed, stuff like that) considered to be so bad even though they're not?
A: They r. It is stated by united nations. U wanna complain, complain to them
then how come weed is legal in quite a few countries, and is used medicinally too?
complaining to the UN isnt going to do anything......because the issue here is Singapore. Not the world.
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Third issue:
(i)They had tried very hard on tis (EDUCATION). Why don't u give a better suggestion on how to educate ? Singaporean have tis fault of complaining too much without giving suggestions
(ii)Why will u carry 20 or more sachets of drugs which can give u the death penalty other than u selling it ? If u r a seller, u r a drug trafficker
(iii)I have heard of cases where people, after taking ecstasy, died of dehydration in singapore.
--->Well many other countries do too then, since im not singaporean. Suggestions? Proper drug education? Well, one can already establish the fact that drug education ISNT good enough if people can die from o/ding (or dehydration) on ecstasy. Education in singapore is basically: dont do drugs. Education should go more along the lines of "dont do it because of these effects..blah blah blah", and "if you want to do it, make sure you dont...and make sure you do...".
ie, dying from E if one uses it properly is quite...hard. Assuming that it's the average person (no drug allergies, healthy person, average intelligence) we're talking about, and the E pill doesnt have too much extra crap in it, you'd need more than a couple pills. How many high school/tertiarty students (lets say upper sec, jc, uni...) know that you shouldnt mix alcohol and E? How many know that you need to drink enough water, because you dehydrate unknowingly when you're dancing like theres no tomorrow? How many know that overhydration is possible when you're on E as well? How many know that a fair few clinical medicines mixed with E can work out fatal? I havent really done any surveys or asked my mates in singapore, but i can tell you - not many. Even if some of the issues just raised were pretty "common sense" issues.
i wont argue (lets use the word debate...its friendlier) about the "drug trafficker" bit...cuz im not sure what the "recognized" definition of trafficker is. -
I think you are forgeting the part that drugs is additive. This is also the key reason why it is so dangerous.Originally posted by thinger:First issue:If u think tat being maimed, moron, perform undesirable deeds when u r addicted (forced to prostitution for money, steal), having kidney, liver, lung, brain failure for the whole life is better than being rape then I have nothing to say
-->okay well this can be solved quite easily. think about it, its basic economics. its basic microeconomics. why are drugs so expensive? its because theres a high demand for them, in comparison to the supply. if drug laws were more lenient, more drugs would be available, thus, prices would drop too.
but that brings the problem of......if more drugs were available, more people would be inclined to buy. thats were the education bit comes in. back to the "mother-father-and-kiddy" analogy...this time in the kitchen: how many parents keep their kids away from hot stoves, oven, and other things in the kitchen once they're old enough to think a bit? NONE. fair enough, maybe babies and young kids are kept out of the kitchen for their own saftey,...but once they're old enough, kids KNOW that touching a hot object will hurt them - the point being that its all in the education. if singapore educates the public properly, the public would be genereally more informed as to what and (more importantly) WHY something is bad for them.
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but i kinda like the muslim law where crime is concern you know the eye for an eye kind of lawOriginally posted by Parka: I'm a he.
Castrating would put us a few years back on the path to being a developed country.
maybe we can like when we hang murderers, fined thieves, rape rapist, give drug traffickers a lethal dose of their own product
this seems to be the only kind of law most of us would understand -
but that brings the problem of......if more drugs were available, more people would be inclined to buy. thats were the education bit comes in. back to the "mother-father-and-kiddy" analogy...this time in the kitchen: how many parents keep their kids away from hot stoves, oven, and other things in the kitchen once they're old enough to think a bit? NONE. fair enough, maybe babies and young kids are kept out of the kitchen for their own saftey,...but once they're old enough, kids KNOW that touching a hot object will hurt them - the point being that its all in the education. if singapore educates the public properly, the public would be genereally more informed as to what and (more importantly) WHY something is bad for them.
There is something wrong with the example u have given about hot stove etc. Does the children or watsoever gain anything from touching stoves or hot plates ? NONE ! They do not feel high, do not get a kick, no peers ask them to do it or do it themselves and won't enjoy the effect a single bit. Wat about drugs ? They r supposed to have a "feel good" effect on people. They can feel high, they can feel stronger, they get a kick, peers ask them to do drugs and WILL enjoy thermseves thoroughly when the drug is in effect. BUT drugs have many other effects tat is gonna kill or harm people badly. They can killl, cause brain and health damage and addiction. Tat is why it has to be prohibited ! Education DON'T WORK well at all. If education works, then NO ONE will be smoking. Why does after so many decades of education, there r still people smoking ? Smoking have a similar nature of drugs isn't it ?then how come weed is legal in quite a few countries, and is used medicinally too?
How come in a few countries guns and arms r legal ? How come in a few countries rape is an offence where only the girls get punished while the guys get away with everything ? How come in a few countries girls can never get to work ? We talk about how majority or international organisations work. We don't talk about a few countries here and there. There r always some kind of extreme countries arounfd the world. Just because a few countries made it legal meant tat this act is accepted ? Then rape when only girls get punished should be accepted in singapore.
complaining to the UN isnt going to do anything......because the issue here is Singapore. Not the world.Well many other countries do too then, since im not singaporean. Suggestions? Proper drug education? Well, one can already establish the fact that drug education ISNT good enough if people can die from o/ding (or dehydration) on ecstasy. Education in singapore is basically: dont do drugs. Education should go more along the lines of "dont do it because of these effects..blah blah blah", and "if you want to do it, make sure you dont...and make sure you do...".
I thought singapore is showing tat if u do drugs, u will get these effects bla bla bla... I tell u, I am a singaporean and I have been SHOWN many many education examples about the problems from drugs ranging from posters at every place (showing pictures of effect of drugs, statement by past drug abuser, hip youngsters saying no to drugs. These full coloured posters r free of charge and they encourage everyone to stick it at their work place etc) to TV programs (popular channel 8 soap operas and many shows do show the problem of drugs. There is a police show call crime watch where frequently they reinforce the problems of drugs) to speakers in schools (CNB officers giving talks about drugs, They go for talks in your primary shcool, secondary school and JC. They even set up booth in your University. It was written in textbooks for school kids to read and compulsory for teachers to discuss.) to drug-free campaign (a whole month or week per year where there will be high profile campaign ranging from walks to road shows to carnivals to commercials and shown prominently in newspaper, news broadcast). In fact, there is a whole division of CNB officers tat try to come out with many ways to educate the public. Other than tat, how do u suggest we educate ? I hope people, instead of complaining about how inadequate our education on drugs is, suggest wat else need to be done. I really can't think of another way to educate people about problems of drugs anymore. IMO, wat can be done has already been done.dying from E if one uses it properly is quite...hard. Assuming that it's the average person (no drug allergies, healthy person, average intelligence) we're talking about, and the E pill doesnt have too much extra crap in it, you'd need more than a couple pills. How many high school/tertiarty students (lets say upper sec, jc, uni...) know that you shouldnt mix alcohol and E? How many know that you need to drink enough water, because you dehydrate unknowingly when you're dancing like theres no tomorrow? How many know that overhydration is possible when you're on E as well? How many know that a fair few clinical medicines mixed with E can work out fatal? I havent really done any surveys or asked my mates in singapore, but i can tell you - not many. Even if some of the issues just raised were pretty "common sense" issues.
The probability is so high it is consider dangerous. Slim 10 doesn't affect everyone too, thousands of people have ate it, but only 2 people in singapore had died from it. Even if u eat a small dose of poison, u r not going to die as well. It will just stay in your organs for decades to time and gradually cause organ failure. How many know about effects of E ? Well... those who go to schools should know. Those who watch TV shows should knows. Those who can read posters should know. Those who read newspaper should know. I can tell u frankly, anyone in singapore tat at least know where is afghanistan located should know the problem of E. -
I believe the market demand for drugs is stable, and it is supply that trigger the price fluctuation. High price of drugs actually do work against the law because profits will attract more trafficking. Similar to what is happening to cigarette.Originally posted by thinger:-->okay well this can be solved quite easily. think about it, its basic economics. its basic microeconomics. why are drugs so expensive? its because theres a high demand for them, in comparison to the supply. if drug laws were more lenient, more drugs would be available, thus, prices would drop too.