Those in the teaching profession...
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If you don't know why you are doing what you are doing, how can others respect you?Originally posted by laurence82:That means me..
heck, every of my mates spend large time under hot sun, stupid senior specs and warrants, reparing vehicles so that some orfs dont have to walk or starve under combat..and we are questioned all the time why we are doing all this?
Basically, mechanical repairs requires a lot of technical skills ,and storemen moves heavy stores..and we are doing some unglamorous jobs nobody else in SAF want to put their finger in..and i would like one day for all logisticians to stop working at all, esp during combat...
Nobody gets any glory by not doing anything. Your job may be given to some contractors, then what do you do? jump into the longkang?
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From Lefleche:
From what I read so far on the threads on education and other social issues, i believe that theres a certain percentage of reasonable pple here. wanna just bring
up some issues to hear the views of those who are not within the education service. i guess insiders like us need some outside perspectives while outsiders need
some inside information in order to come to a balance understanding of an issue. pardon the casual english, its late at night.
in my 4 yrs of teaching, it is becoming increasingly troublingto me to notice that the general trend of education is not to educate but to please. it starts with
a very troubling (to me at least) assumption: our students and their parents are our customers, therefore the customer is always rite. implicit is when a child
joins a school, the school 'owes' the child something.
this is advocated by MOE, hence the common complaint that MOE always side parents over schools. now i wonder, is this good for the long term good of the country.
granted, some schools are run by psychopaths and they deserved to be complained, but nowadays, parents complaint but everything even when it is clear as day that
their kid is at fault. for example:
1. kid fails in exam and has to be retained. parents threatened school with a complaint to MOE/MP. said it was because school did not teach properly. when shown
the kid's wkbook which was empty, parent say, why teacher never tell parent. my question is:
a. where does personal responsibility play a part in the education we want to impart? if teacher nvr teach, why only that boy failed and the whole class passed?
more troubling is,
a. why did the parent even get the idea that he can complain and get his way,since it is so obvious that his son is at fault?
now although MOE always bounce the issue back to teh school to resolve, i wonder should they even entertain such parents in the first place n give them 'clout'.
should MPs, who are not even involved or possibly aware of the matter be given an intervening voice too?
the fear for the principal to get into trouble with MOE is real. an incident in my school went as such,
student, over some comflict with a teacher (student caught smoking) wanted to use a fire extinguisher to assault the teacher. school tries to cover-up, persuade
teacher not to make police report, gives in to parent's request not to use the word "threaten" and "assault" in report because the boy is still "young". (Boy is
almost 1.5 times the size of the teacher) principal seemed more afraid parents would complain to MOE that the teacher involved scolded the student for smoking
than the fact that his teacher was almost smashed with a fire extinguisher.
this is not the first time an assault on a teacher has been covered up, either in my school or others.
my question is: why are schools so afraid to do what is right? isn't discipline a form of education too? what has stripped our school system of its ability and
willingness to act with dignity?
the emphasis is on pleasing the customer, so our lessons have to be interesting lest the students fail, of which is the teacher's fault no matter what the
student's attitude was. we cannot shout at them otherwise it hurts their self-esteem, we cannot answer back at unreasonable parents, who curse teachers and
insult their professionalism. and of course, we cannot hit them even when they threaten us, we must walk away and let them 'win', so that when they cool down, we
can 'counsel' them. basically, we can only talk to them when they are in a good mood. also, a discipline report to a parent is unpleasant for the 'client', so it
must be done in a way that is 'palatable'. who advocated that schools should look impressive with the latest programs to impress clients but have no moral guts
to call a spade a spade?
where is the importance of intellectual rigour?
where is the respect for elders and for learning?
where is the sense of personal responsibility?
where is the importance of instiling a healthy fear of consequences for one's actions?
should education be a service instead of a commodity?
should teachers be trusted by MOE to do the right thing?
should teachers be protected?
should teachers educate or should they please?
when teachers lose their dignity, its not long before society feels the impact. and where do you think MOE and their policies fit into all these?
enough rambling....comments if you please, ladies n gentlemen. -
Being a teacher isnÂ’t easy. We may know how to DO something very well, but how to teach it well is very much different. The other forumites have all made good points.
Its much more stressful to teach now than in the past. Anyone remember the incident in which the principal resigned because he hit a girl with a book? Its ridiculous really.
The teachers are getting more pay. Why? Compare it to simple Demand and Supply. When Demand is high and Supply is low, the cost will be greater. This means that we donÂ’t have enough teachers. And I agree that it is a thankless job(Most of the time).
But we forget that they shape our childrenÂ’s future. They shape OUR future.
Teachers teaching for money is a sad thing though, but it canÂ’t be helped.
In Singapore where money means everything, ideals can only rank highest at second. -
To quote Greengoblin,
I think parents have more power now. Not to mention more freedom of press than before.
If there's a problem in school, and the result is not satisfying to the parent, what can the parent do?
1: Complain to MOE.
2: Write in to the many newspapers we have: NewPaper, Today, Streats, Straits Times, etc.
If people use the second option, the reputation of the school will take a drop.
Sometimes, a reputation built up over a time span of 30 years can be easily smashed with one bad student.
That's why i think the principals, MOE, tries to cover up. They don't want to waste the effort and time spent in creating a good reputation.
HOWEVER, i think sometimes they bring it to extremes. Treating a kid as a client/Vip is stupid.
You do something wrong, you get caned. After all, the school is a place for learning and discipline, isn't it?
The parents expect too much from their children, and yet they want to school to do everything, that is a source of concern.
Another issue that i find linked to this:
There are fewer children now than before. Most people only have one child, and hence they will be more protective of them. Its a human trait, and it can't be helped. They want them to BE the best, to HAVE the best. (Probably because they didn't, when they were young).
I don't think this situation is going to get better though. So we just have to live with it. -
It is indeed heartening to see many people standing up for teachers especially current teachers.. yes i do agree.. education has somewhat lost its true purpose..i lament the time not too long when i was studying how my teachers actually gave me good education back then no nonsense such as ISO, WITS....competitions..etc etc etc...they really TEACH & be involved in the total development of a child......in discipline.. my teachers slapped me when i made mistakes.. did this kill me?..of course not.. i am not advocating corporal punishment..but to a rebel kid like me..it worked & end result.. a teacher earning a decent living now.. but watabout the kids today? spoilt brats no respect for authorities..scold a bit complain.. we are producing a generation of weaklings and complainers...
the problem is many fold- the people on top -the policies makers in MOE HQ.. they implement policies like no body's business. we the teachers suffer at the tail end..second NIE.. they are taught by so called "professors",many who are not school teachers themselves & hence they have no idea wat is happening in schools..wat NIE teaches is full of crap.. does NIE prepare a graduate teacher wat to expect when he graduate? in terms of pedagogy yes but in terms of other things like doing wits, iso, competitions,doing endless projects...they never mention anything, it doesn't take long for a new teacher to get a culture shock...when they are potsd to schools..even in discipline ..nie teaches theory of how to deal with problem kids..this theory tat theory..does it work..? to me full of shit.. i use my own way.. & it works..not some forms of theories and some steps...as listed in the text books..
the principals.. not all are bad..but there are a few who are terrors.. i know of one xiao on principal who made teachers come back on sundays to work.. & lucky for the 5 day work implementation to stop her nonsense.. for the climate survey (staff morale survey)..this principal was damn pissed off with the first result (cos many teachers expressed their displeasure how the school was run)..she made her staff sit in front of her to do a second time...this is kelong ..!!! someone should report to MOE...
it is time education minister looks into the welfare of teachers .... -
double post
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haha... i think many people the private sector are biased la. in the way that they think that everyday they spend is challenging and hard. not like the teachers who are believed to spend 'ez life in ivory tusk'. just becoz of the incentives, e general perception of their jobscope, many are judgemental of them.
i can bring forward cases which teacher leaves the job becoz of the workload.
for all the cases i know i shall highlight two.. coz it saves trouble.. haha.
there was this doctorate holder who teaches in this jc becoz of his passion for teaching. but he was pushed so hard by the admin work that he needed to consult a psychiatrist.
he then went for a few months of treatment while putting all his work aside. he is in australia now.. as an associate. prof. in a university. the cause of his high stress which hints him to quit his job is the admin work. have you ever wondered just how much of admin work do they need to do?
consider again, there is this 1st class honour again teaching as a ordinary teacher because of her passion for teaching. what hints her to quit and went into the private sector ? the bloody admin work! if you have friends who worked as teacher, you can ask them about it.
so, just stop being egoistic that by being in private sector, you are in the toughiest sector of all. all sector has their tale to tell. in fact, i think the admin work in teaching alone, hell load compared to private sector. so STOP being cranky or whatever about teachers complaining. if you don't understand, don't assume. when you don't assume, you will shut up and won't make a big joke out of yourself. -
Another mail from a spineless teacher
This shows how pathetic these teachers are. They are cowards who do not dare to voice their comments out in public and enage in a fair debate. I feel pity for your students and perhaps your decendents. It is will a generation of spineless goons who can only attack people from the sidelines.
27 November 2004 · 02:23 AM
mohanraj0085
have u sign up for teaching ?? haha .... dont tok so much join and exp
it b4 u want 2 tok somemore. No guts !!
Anyway, I have taught in tuition centres, and I give individual tuition I believe this is more than enough for me to gauge the performance of teachers here. I really pity students who are taught by people who are not innovative and choose to blame it on students lack of ability and worse..lack of discipline. When all my kids come crying to me about the verbal attacks by teachers, my heart goes out to them literally. So teachers, let this be a food for thought. You all should justify what you are paid. -
Huh? What u talking abt?Originally posted by sgdiehard:If you don't know why you are doing what you are doing, how can others respect you?
Nobody gets any glory by not doing anything. Your job may be given to some contractors, then what do you do? jump into the longkang?
Logistics knew that the army will need supply and repair during combat, without it, the army is crippled. And there are naive people who thinks logistic word is nothing ,slack, meaningless..
Yeah, I would like to see Army depend on contractors during wartime, many i met who used to be in infantry, malaysians, or even civil defence....thse people either dont fight for us, or they have to go back to their mother units... -
legal justice..
wif respect toyou..
i think the best way to understand a teacher's life is to be a teacher.. y dun u join nie in this jan intake...i believe MOE will love to have u as a teacher.. bold, innovative, hardworking.....you will go far in MOE.. next time when u become principal...
I DUN WAN TO BE IN YOUR SCH !!!!!! hahahhahahahahahahahahhaha -
legal justice..
wif respect toyou..
i think the best way to understand a teacher's life is to be a teacher.. y dun u join nie in this jan intake...i believe MOE will love to have u as a teacher.. bold, innovative, hardworking.....you will go far in MOE.. next time when u become principal...
I DUN WAN TO BE IN YOUR SCH !!!!!! hahahhahahahahahahahahhaha -
Subject discussed extensively at the thread Infantry: the workhorse of battle under Military Nuts.Originally posted by laurence82:Huh? What u talking abt?
Logistics knew that the army will need supply and repair during combat, without it, the army is crippled. And there are naive people who thinks logistic word is nothing ,slack, meaningless..
Yeah, I would like to see Army depend on contractors during wartime, many i met who used to be in infantry, malaysians, or even civil defence....thse people either dont fight for us, or they have to go back to their mother units...
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=99019 -
what do u teach in tuition centers you n00b!?!?!Originally posted by JusticeLegal:Another mail from a spineless teacher
This shows how pathetic these teachers are. They are cowards who do not dare to voice their comments out in public and enage in a fair debate. I feel pity for your students and perhaps your decendents. It is will a generation of spineless goons who can only attack people from the sidelines.
Anyway, I have taught in tuition centres, and I give individual tuition I believe this is more than enough for me to gauge the performance of teachers here. I really pity students who are taught by people who are not innovative and choose to blame it on students lack of ability and worse..lack of discipline. When all my kids come crying to me about the verbal attacks by teachers, my heart goes out to them literally. So teachers, let this be a food for thought. You all should justify what you are paid. -
Ai ya tuition - you tutor only for 1-2 hrs , you do not stay in the school from 9am-5pm and face the students every 5 days per week. You probably face the same students once a week.JusticeLegal:Another mail from a spineless teacher
This shows how pathetic these teachers are. They are cowards who do not dare to voice their comments out in public and enage in a fair debate. I feel pity for your students and perhaps your decendents. It is will a generation of spineless goons who can only attack people from the sidelines.
Anyway, I have taught in tuition centres, and I give individual tuition I believe this is more than enough for me to gauge the performance of teachers here. I really pity students who are taught by people who are not innovative and choose to blame it on students lack of ability and worse..lack of discipline. When all my kids come crying to me about the verbal attacks by teachers, my heart goes out to them literally. So teachers, let this be a food for thought. You all should justify what you are paid.
I surely hope that you are not tutoring english because your spelling alone is laughable. Your logic and comprehension are too flawed , which can prove to be detrimental even in mathematics.
Your words are rather self absorbed and self righteous. Your words seem so childlike in communication. Your words also gave me the subjective perception of a girl (meaning : you) who thinks she knows the real world and how it is like. Well , honey, wake up and smell the sh.it because there is plenty in the real world and stop living in the pansy fancy fantasy of yours. -
Hi to all teachers here,
I suspect all those "students are our clients", WIT, ISO, etc, etc come from the schools ranking system. As schools are anxious to be ranked well, the principals would be definitely want to avoid any "bad" records with MOE or the press and would pressurize teachers to achieve more.
It also doesn't help that now our ministries are headed by scholars. They tend to be result-orientated.
The rate that things go, there's a possibility that we might end up in a lose lose situation - ill-disciplined students and disillusioned and stressed out teachers. That will be a sad day for Singapore! -
hmmm...legal justice....u have not answer me..will u be signing up as a teacher..come on little kitty dun be shy...
tuition teacher + teacher qualification = understanding & rational
tuition teacher - teacher qualification = irrational & self contradicting
spineless? alamak....must remember tuition teacher is nothing to me.. you dun even know the school curiculum..what is the latest changes to PSLE science? For English..do you know how to mark a composition ??? I never have any high regards for tuition teachers unless proven otherwise..i guess u r not even a full time tuition teacher.....
hmmm..you will never understand yawn..waste my time... -
Many teachers are products of the scholarship system. So I believe scholars are suffering under current system as well. Many people tend to have the misconception that scholars have it easy which isn't true.Originally posted by pearlie27:It also doesn't help that now our ministries are headed by scholars. They tend to be result-orientated.
The rate that things go, there's a possibility that we might end up in a lose lose situation - ill-disciplined students and disillusioned and stressed out teachers. That will be a sad day for Singapore!
The problem, I believe, lies in policies that have not fully comprehended feedback from those who are in the field. Hence, unrealistic results tend to be set and this miscommunication of what the ministry perceives student needs and what actually can be done will never be resolved. -
Justicelegal ....... go balik kampung ... hahaha
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I agree with green goblin.....these scholars spent relatively a short time at ground level, then they are being transfer to MOE to make policies...for example, the SEM school excellence model aka ISO) they tell u wat they want..like to" determine optimized use of resources" but they never guide you how to do.. even till now.. many of us dun know what is happening & collect data & do meaningless surveys after surveys...in the first place i question the need of an ISO for school...we are providing education not some comercial products, so wat a school is ISO certified? received the SQC & SQA..???? at the end of the day, it is still retainig good teachers who can teach well that counts..tat y all these admin are killing teachers & how about collecting money..i have for many occasion wasted manty periods in collecting forms, money....the feeling isjust sickening.. teachers or administrators?
i was given a chance to teach a good class but i rather teach the EM3, these are the people that need us most, the scholars can fend for themselves...so legal justice..dun ever say we are spineless just becos u only hear from your students, be objective, talk to teachers & dun form your own judgement as I said again..
WHEN ARE U GOING TO NIE?????????? DUN CRITICISE>>DO IT & SEE FOR YOURSELF!!!! -
That's the problem with our elitist system. We get elites who are super academics but not at all practical. On top of that, they are so anxious to score points that they often ignore the human factor and ground situation.
Don't be too harsh with JusticeLegal, she is only a xiao mei mei. She may appear to be shooting off her mouth but that could be a clumsy way of seeking verification to her thoughts. She needs lots of patience from us esp all those dedicated teachers.
cheers -
dare to say which tuition centre u teach?
teaching which level? which subject?
c'mon, u say ppl coward, u be brave lah.....tell us!!!
im waiting...................... -
Me tutor at SMU
Society Management University... or Se Hui Da Xue
Justice... u teach where one? -
me Masters in Forums Management
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Of course she legally teaches in the High Courts!Originally posted by greengoblin:Me tutor at SMU Society Management University... or Se Hui Da Xue
Justice... u teach where one? -
Hahaha......yes and I should be the Chief Justice by now.Originally posted by pearlie27:Of course she legally teaches in the High Courts!