Singapore ready for Casinos
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Not all of us will gamble at the proposed casino. Only the well-heeled ones will do so. And we shall watch the tragedies unfold in their families.Originally posted by Gazelle:"WE NEED TO THINK THE WHOLE SOCIETY AS A WHOLE"
There is no single policy in this world that will benefit everybody. Some will win some will lose, the decision to win or lose if up to you to choose.
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now now..lets not be biased or whatever. Lets just allow a independent analyst to list out the advantages and disadvantages of having a Casino in Singapore. Then, the report will be published independently from a independent press. In that way, nobody will complain that our newspapers are biased. I just don't get it that how the government are going to set up a Casino that is going to be free of vices and social problems. History have shown, gambling leads to these problems. Unless the government is able to produce a detailed case study on a successful model in which they are going to build on, some of us will not agree to it. Who doesnt know it? In math, there is something called probability. Whatever that seemed 0.99% will also happen. In other words, it means that when a Casino is built on Sentosa for the rich, there will at least be a slight rise in social problems. For those who support the Casino, face it, problems will arise. But wait, is the government going to be ignorant about this problem? Or are they going to look for ways to solve this problem. If they don't, these small little problems can multiply and soon it will be too late to address it. In other words, it might be as well as the end of good governance in singapore because the government is not practising good governance.
Let's talk about the those who support the building of the casino. Well, the government says that taxes will fall, blablabla..Well, only silly fool bites onto it. Educated people knows it. Those are just statistics.How real is it? yeah.The government have done a study on it. Show it to us! On what circumstances will it be successful? Alright..just show it to us and let the comments flow..Singaporeans live in Singapore too. Give us a voice, a fair stage for views to be aired.If even possible, hold a Referendum to decide on this issue. Since the government says that Singaporeans are mature enough, I am very sure that we Singaporeans are mature enough to decide on this issue. Isn't it?? If we are able to control and restrain ourselves from temptation, surely we are able to decide on the decision whether or not to build a casino. -
In life, sometime we just have to sacrifice something in order to gain something. I believe what our government is trying to do is for the better good of Singapore. As you can see from some of my posting, I am an anti PAP citizen in Singapore, and it is clear that I am not a pro PAP kind of person. However if you can see good reasons and benefit from PAP policy, I believe it is only right to support it.Originally posted by yeebas:now now..lets not be biased or whatever. Lets just allow a independent analyst to list out the advantages and disadvantages of having a Casino in Singapore. Then, the report will be published independently from a independent press. In that way, nobody will complain that our newspapers are biased. I just don't get it that how the government are going to set up a Casino that is going to be free of vices and social problems. History have shown, gambling leads to these problems. Unless the government is able to produce a detailed case study on a successful model in which they are going to build on, some of us will not agree to it. Who doesnt know it? In math, there is something called probability. Whatever that seemed 0.99% will also happen. In other words, it means that when a Casino is built on Sentosa for the rich, there will at least be a slight rise in social problems. For those who support the Casino, face it, problems will arise. But wait, is the government going to be ignorant about this problem? Or are they going to look for ways to solve this problem. If they don't, these small little problems can multiply and soon it will be too late to address it. In other words, it might be as well as the end of good governance in singapore because the government is not practising good governance.
Let's talk about the those who support the building of the casino. Well, the government says that taxes will fall, blablabla..Well, only silly fool bites onto it. Educated people knows it. Those are just statistics.How real is it? yeah.The government have done a study on it. Show it to us! On what circumstances will it be successful? Alright..just show it to us and let the comments flow..Singaporeans live in Singapore too. Give us a voice, a fair stage for views to be aired.If even possible, hold a Referendum to decide on this issue. Since the government says that Singaporeans are mature enough, I am very sure that we Singaporeans are mature enough to decide on this issue. Isn't it?? If we are able to control and restrain ourselves from temptation, surely we are able to decide on the decision whether or not to build a casino.
Some forumers have mentioned that having a casino in Singapore will eventually benefit our millionaire MPs. But one have to understand that even without the casino, they will still be a millionaire. Therefore there is no reason why MPs would want to sneak their head out to gain bad publicity for gaining nothing.
I hope Singaporeans would be able to see things from a wider perspective, because Singapore is going through a major transition and at the same time, we are facing intense competition from our neighbor countries . As long as we do our best to discourage hardcore gambling, majority of the gain from this casino project will be paid by foreigners and not just Singaporeans.
Ask yourself this question, would you rather have a "perfect" society or to have Singapore going into major recession? -
So what sacrifice do you mean?Originally posted by Gazelle:In life, sometime we just have to sacrifice something in order to gain something.
To maintain their million dollar pay, they need to come up with money making policies at the expense of the ppl.Originally posted by Gazelle:Some forumers have mentioned that having a casino in Singapore will eventually benefit our millionaire MPs. But one have to understand that even without the casino, they will still be a millionaire. Therefore there is no reason why MPs would want to sneak their head out to gain bad publicity for gaining nothing.
You also agree on the vices of gambling, right?Originally posted by Gazelle:As long as we do our best to discourage hardcore gambling, majority of the gain from this casino project will be paid by foreigners and not just Singaporeans.
What kind of comparsion is this? What do you mean by "perfect"?Originally posted by Gazelle:Ask yourself this question, would you rather have a "perfect" society or to have Singapore going into major recession?
You also agree Singapore is in recession, right? What has our gahment being doing, when they quickyly restore they pay and says Singapore is out of recession. Where everything it seems, the prices are rising. Ask anyone on the streets how they feel. Forget abt reading ST.
Now, they want to build a casino? Who will really benefits? Who will really suffer? Look back the history, and you will know. -
indeed Singapore's economy might benefit. But will it be a short term or long term benefit? Since the casino is a man-made entertainment,sure, decades to come there will be even newer and more exciting places for millionaires to place their bets. Then, the casino in Sentosa will be forced to renew and upgrade itself. Will this upgrade be viable and cost effective? What about other social problems? Will the government be ignorant to it? If they arent ignorant about it, they will be spending money to address the problem. Since addressing the problem requires money, where does the money come from? Okay lets see it this way. Indeed the casino will earn money. But sooner or later, the money will be channelled into other places like healthcare and other infrastructure to overcome the problems brought about by the casino. As time goes by..the problems will overcome the advantages. What happens next? Casino is closed and oh no. Tourism revenue falls. Oh no. Poor economic performance. oh no. recession. how? who's gonna answer for this?
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who cares as long as it lines the gahmen's pocket in the short run and middle run...Originally posted by yeebas:indeed Singapore's economy might benefit. But will it be a short term or long term benefit? Since the casino is a man-made entertainment,sure, decades to come there will be even newer and more exciting places for millionaires to place their bets. Then, the casino in Sentosa will be forced to renew and upgrade itself. Will this upgrade be viable and cost effective? What about other social problems? Will the government be ignorant to it? If they arent ignorant about it, they will be spending money to address the problem. Since addressing the problem requires money, where does the money come from? Okay lets see it this way. Indeed the casino will earn money. But sooner or later, the money will be channelled into other places like healthcare and other infrastructure to overcome the problems brought about by the casino. As time goes by..the problems will overcome the advantages. What happens next? Casino is closed and oh no. Tourism revenue falls. Oh no. Poor economic performance. oh no. recession. how? who's gonna answer for this? -
If you are so anti gambling, please ban the whole stock exchange cos it is the biggest casino in the world.
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In order to build this stupid casino, sentosa has to be expanded.... how?
reclaim land... and all the marine life will be KILLED!!
Dont be a murder and say NO to casino. -
As with my stand in the past casino related threads, my vote's still a big 'NO' towards that bloody casino.
If short term casino profits benefit CAN actually be prioritized over the detrimental long impact of addiction and related social problems spin-offs here in Singapore one day, that day will mark the begining of a new black era for society.
Forget about civics and moral education in schools, cos it will be simply impossible to justify to our kids will not be able to see the justification on why the police in the anti-vice branch in the CID is busying chasing after bookies and gamblers on one end of the island while red carpets are being rolled out on another to warmly welcome yet another similar class of gamblers in on the other. -
Image is very important to marketing. Most tourists who arrive here best remember Singapore as a clean and green society. So if we built a casino which is linked to vice, prostitution, loanshark activities and triads, the tourists will be 'hmmmzz..INDEED it is UNIQUELY SINGAPORE', 'I shall come and take a look'. Some foreigners will just poke fun at Singapore's double standards. Then singapore's image would be affected.
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I think the key issue is here is not to talk about whats been done. Stock exchange, Singapore Pools all these have been here, so there is nothing much I can do, but concerning this casino, it has not happen here, so instead of saying since there is already this and that, we should let everything else come in also, its making a bad issue worse.Originally posted by CenturionMBT:If you are so anti gambling, please ban the whole stock exchange cos it is the biggest casino in the world. -
I agree. The situation is bad enough. Don't let it get worse.Originally posted by gasband:I think the key issue is here is not to talk about whats been done. Stock exchange, Singapore Pools all these have been here, so there is nothing much I can do, but concerning this casino, it has not happen here, so instead of saying since there is already this and that, we should let everything else come in also, its making a bad issue worse. -
Dont let it get worse?Originally posted by iveco:I agree. The situation is bad enough. Don't let it get worse.
I think if we dont do anything, singapore economy (especially the tourist ind.)is definitely going to get worst.
Ask yourself this question, tell my why would tourist wanna to stop over and spend money in Singapore if they can spend them in KL or Bangkok? What does Singapore has to offer?
good service? cheap accomodation? natural wonders? nice real beaches? clear blue sea? fantastic shopping?
I think the social impact of rising unemployment in Singapore will be more servere than the casino itself. -
If we have a casino, imagine how many people will be ruined by gambling. Legalising the casino while going after illegal moneylanders smacks of double standards, as some people have pointed out.Originally posted by Gazelle:Dont let it get worse?
I think if we dont do anything, singapore economy (especially the tourist ind.)is definitely going to get worst.
Ask yourself this question, tell my why would tourist wanna to stop over and spend money in Singapore if they can spend them in KL or Bangkok? What does Singapore has to offer?
good service? cheap accomodation? natural wonders? nice real beaches? clear blue sea? fantastic shopping?
I think the social impact of rising unemployment in Singapore will be more servere than the casino itself. -
I tend to agree with gazelle. We benefitted during a time when countries like china, vietnam, cambodia, myanmmar, indonesia even malaysia were considered communist or hermit kingdoms, troubled spots or industrial nations not very keen on tourism. In other words we built our own niche.Originally posted by iveco:If we have a casino, imagine how many people will be ruined by gambling. Legalising the casino while going after illegal moneylanders smacks of double standards, as some people have pointed out.
But now these countries have opened up and tourists are finding that there is much more to offer than in singapore. Hong Kong is also in trouble but unlike us they now have a hinterland to fall back upon if their tourism industry fails, what do we have to fall back upon if we fail?
The reality of the tourism scene is that if singaporeans themselves are unwilling to spend locally but rather fly all the way to thailand, china to shop and enjoy to take advantage cheap bargains what is to stop other savvy tourists in other countries from doing the same.
Simply put If you have nothing to offer why should tourists find a "reason" to come here to spend? -
Nothing wrong with your point except what should we think that a casino will change all these? Talking about casinos, Australia and Genting also have. Why should a casino make us more competitive? Why shouldnt we think of improving on our strengths instead of moving onto something which we are not sure of? I mean, really, do we have to resort to such things like gambling to attract people?Originally posted by KumSioJui:I tend to agree with gazelle. We benefitted during a time when countries like china, vietnam, cambodia, myanmmar, indonesia even malaysia were considered communist or hermit kingdoms, troubled spots or industrial nations not very keen on tourism. In other words we built our own niche.
But now these countries have opened up and tourists are finding that there is much more to offer than in singapore. Hong Kong is also in trouble but unlike us they now have a hinterland to fall back upon if their tourism industry fails, what do we have to fall back upon if we fail?
The reality of the tourism scene is that if singaporeans themselves are unwilling to spend locally but rather fly all the way to thailand, china to shop and enjoy to take advantage cheap bargains what is to stop other savvy tourists in other countries from doing the same.
Simply put If you have nothing to offer why should tourists find a "reason" to come here to spend? -
Whatever we can do has to be all man made and will cost ton of money to implement. Haven't we already have sunk hundreds of millions into sentosa, that didn't work. What abt durian esplanade a few hundred million there as well?Originally posted by gasband:Nothing wrong with your point except what should we think that a casino will change all these? Talking about casinos, Australia and Genting also have. Why should a casino make us more competitive? Why shouldnt we think of improving on our strengths instead of moving onto something which we are not sure of? I mean, really, do we have to resort to such things like gambling to attract people?
Let me put it back to you, what do we have that will attract the masses here? If I was a tourists tell me why should I come here to spend.
Building casinos with partnership from Las Vegas now thats different, we are asking them to sink several hundred million here only for a few years of ownership and they are agreeable.
Do you think for a moment that these are stupid people who will sink several hundred million for fun.
Their agenda is that they are trying to beat their competitors in Genting and Australia and elsewhere by franchising it to this region which is gonna be hot. They have been in this business for decades and they know how to fix the kind of entertainment that pull in crowds as seen from their successes. And they gonna do it for us if they ever hope to see a return on their investment. And best of all our people are going to learn this secret of theirs almost for free.
In the end if nobody turned up at the casinos and it's really bad, we didn't lose very much anyway. What more can you ask for? -
http://app.stb.com.sg/asp/new/new03a.asp?id=2143Originally posted by KumSioJui:Whatever we can do has to be all man made and will cost ton of money to implement. Haven't we already have sunk hundreds of millions into sentosa, that didn't work. What abt durian esplanade a few hundred million there as well?
Let me put it back to you, what do we have that will attract the masses here? If I was a tourists tell me why should I come here to spend.
Building casinos with partnership from Las Vegas now thats different, we are asking them to sink several hundred million here only for a few years of ownership and they are agreeable.
Do you think for a moment that these are stupid people who will sink several hundred million for fun.
Their agenda is that they are trying to beat their competitors in Genting and Australia and elsewhere by franchising it to this region which is gonna be hot. They have been in this business for decades and they know how to fix the kind of entertainment that pull in crowds as seen from their successes. And they gonna do it for us if they ever hope to see a return on their investment. And best of all our people are going to learn this secret of theirs almost for free.
In the end if nobody turned up at the casinos and it's really bad, we didn't lose very much anyway. What more can you ask for?
above is the latest figure from STB. If you see from it, you will see an increase over last year's figures and we are on track to this years target. It is not just for one month. But for the best part of the year so far. So, is there any casino to help push this growth? Nope there aint. If you were to look far ahead, the Esplanade, the Suntec Convention and Expo is actually a long term investment to attract the MICE sector which is gonna be a big segment of tourism to come. -
Esplanade, Singapore exhibition halls and hotels can only happen if Singapore maintains its position as the air hub of South East Asia. The whole purpose of having a casino is to make sure that both tourist and business travelers dont by pass Singapore when they traveling to SE Asia.Originally posted by gasband:http://app.stb.com.sg/asp/new/new03a.asp?id=2143
above is the latest figure from STB. If you see from it, you will see an increase over last year's figures and we are on track to this years target. It is not just for one month. But for the best part of the year so far. So, is there any casino to help push this growth? Nope there aint. If you were to look far ahead, the Esplanade, the Suntec Convention and Expo is actually a long term investment to attract the MICE sector which is gonna be a big segment of tourism to come.
It is easy for you to count the chicken now that the eggs which our government laid years ago have hatch. If our government stops laying eggs today, where are you going to find the chicken in years to come? -
Precisely. The eggs have hatched. We didnt need casinos to grow. There are many other ways I believe. I may not be as well versed in the economics and politics of it all but at least as a common man and singaporean, i believe that if a country has to build a casino to attract people, then it is sad, damn sad.Originally posted by Gazelle:Esplanade, Singapore exhibition halls and hotels can only happen if Singapore maintains its position as the air hub of South East Asia. The whole purpose of having a casino is to make sure that both tourist and business travelers dont by pass Singapore when they traveling to SE Asia.
It is easy for you to count the chicken now that the eggs which our government laid years ago have hatch. If our government stops laying eggs today, where are you going to find the chicken in years to come? -
When Singapore build the Esplanade, majority of Singaporeans were not happy about it. it cost 600 million and we still have to fund it. Why?Originally posted by gasband:Precisely. The eggs have hatched. We didnt need casinos to grow. There are many other ways I believe. I may not be as well versed in the economics and politics of it all but at least as a common man and singaporean, i believe that if a country has to build a casino to attract people, then it is sad, damn sad.
The chicken you counting today dont last forever and you will need new eggs to bring new growth to the economy. -
Define "we". We never have a say, why do u use "we still have to fund it"?Originally posted by Gazelle:When Singapore build the Esplanade, majority of Singaporeans were not happy about it. it cost 600 million and we still have to fund it. Why?
Of course we know that. You can always bring in this argument for whatever things the gahment do. Now we can talking about the social problems.Originally posted by Gazelle:The chicken you counting today dont last forever and you will need new eggs to bring new growth to the economy. -
Casino can results in suicides and broken families. And serves as a catalyst to further erose the values of the ppl. Addiction to gambling will cause many serious problems. Casino is more serious than 4D, toto, because in Casino, the gamblers lose quickly. We can say that the casino will cause the gamblers to lose more and a catalyst to the social problems.Originally posted by Gazelle:Esplanade, Singapore exhibition halls and hotels can only happen if Singapore maintains its position as the air hub of South East Asia. The whole purpose of having a casino is to make sure that both tourist and business travelers dont by pass Singapore when they traveling to SE Asia.
The question is about laying the wrong eggs which we have seen many times liao.Originally posted by Gazelle:It is easy for you to count the chicken now that the eggs which our government laid years ago have hatch. If our government stops laying eggs today, where are you going to find the chicken in years to come? -
I believe unemployment and recession will create more social problem than a healthy economy with Casino. If unemployment get out of hand, many bread winners will lose their job, families will have problem servicing their housing loan, and eventually lose the roof above their head.Originally posted by SnowFlag:Casino can results in suicides and broken families. And serves as a catalyst to further erose the values of the ppl. Addiction to gambling will cause many serious problems. Casino is more serious than 4D, toto, because in Casino, the gamblers lose quickly. We can say that the casino will cause the gamblers to lose more and a catalyst to the social problems.
Yes, we all know that casino will definitely create problem for gambling addicts, but we also have to understand that gambling is an individual's decision and they themselves should be responsible for their own action. How can you expect Singapore to sacrific its future for the seek of a bunch irresponsible people in this country? Please note that our government didnt say that gambling is good, in fact they say you will sure to lose in long run. Isnt this message clear enough for us to make our own decision?
You will never know if it is a wrong egg until it is hatch. No egg = no Hope.Originally posted by SnowFlag:The question is about laying the wrong eggs which we have seen many times liao. -
You speak as though only casino can help us now. Then why are we paying million dollars to our miw, and they can only think of a casino to solve unemployment. Btw, when the top takes millions, n they expect the bottom to struggle with ever increasing prices. You think they really concern when they wanted to build a casino.Originally posted by Gazelle:I believe unemployment and recession will create more social problem than a healthy economy with Casino. If unemployment get out of hand, many bread winners will lose their job, families will have problem servicing their housing loan, and eventually lose the roof above their head.
It looks more like a gahment decision. Is a addicted gambler ever a responsible person?Originally posted by Gazelle:Yes, we all know that casino will definitely create problem for gambling addicts, but we also have to understand that gambling is an individual's decision and they themselves should be responsible for their own action.
Did I ever ask Singapore to sacifice its future? Btw, the casino is meant to prey on the weakness of your so-called "iresponsible" gamblers. Or do u mean the "ireponsible" gahment?Originally posted by Gazelle:How can you expect Singapore to sacrific its future for the seek of a bunch irresponsible people in this country?
have they? We will indeed lose in the long run.Originally posted by Gazelle:Please note that our government didnt say that gambling is good, in fact they say you will sure to lose in long run.
It is clear enough for me to oppose.Originally posted by Gazelle:Isnt this message clear enough for us to make our own decision?