A 14 year old boy is sentenced to 85 lashes
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Since i have some time.. let me just make a last reply. @__@.
I am wondering if u do know the meaning of the word aydiyahuma as in all of the translations from quran websites, it suggest tat both of the hands of the theives had to be cut off. I had said before tat aydiyahuma is the plural for 2 when it is use in hands. If u insist tat it meant 3, meaning u r the best translator among these quran translators, and the word hand meant anything u like, then I can only say u r forcing the quran to your ideals.
You have ignored part of what i said. Even if it so, again, aydiyahuma in that sentence is given its figurative meaning strength of hands, power, property, wealth, blessings. Many Arabic words contain such multiple meanings. So cutting of hands is ruled out. Besides, this saying comes just after that, “But if the thief repent after his crime, and amend his conduct, Allah turns to him in forgiveness; for Allah is Most forgiving, Most Merciful.” How could this be applied if someone has his hands cut off?In muslim, lewdness in men is never punished. Tat is why they r allowed to marry up till 4 wives.
There goes your hasty assumptions again. There are verses concerning that elsewhere in the Qu'ran and Hadith. You are very selective in your reading. Next, how is having four wives lewd? Isnt it better to acknowledge a women as his wife rather than being a mistress, a kept woman whom society looks down upon? If you need to know, you must have the permission of the first wife before you can take another.Tis just shows tat the quran, as in many other religion, is sexists and come out with rules strictly for a certain sex.
Nopez.. its like i've said it above.. Just because u say it mention only women doesn't means it have to be prostitution ! As said before, it may meant a lot of things such as premarital sex, masturbation etc etc.
I've mentioned it concerns habitual fornication, like prostitution, premarital sex included. For watching porn, dressing sexily
, masturbating, those are are personal, not social wrongs. Therefore, they are not included.Again u do not take in the literal meaning of the verse and u force in your ideals into the translation.
Its not me, it was what i was taught.Is there anything written in it tat ever suggest they be freed as long as she is "counselled" ?
I need to repeat once more? Haiz.. After they were counselled and repented, turned back to theri religion, that is when God has saved them in a way, "or Allah ordain for them some (other) way." So yay. -
oie you want to talk, can. But only a few things i want all of you to not.
!. Do not condemn any religions.
2. Do not try to promote any religions here. That includes persuading those with religions not to have any religion
I will leave this topic for conversation sake.But if anybody complains that it cuts into his beliefs, i will have to close it. Fair enough? -
You have ignored part of what i said. Even if it so, again, aydiyahuma in that sentence is given its figurative meaning strength of hands, power, property, wealth, blessings. Many Arabic words contain such multiple meanings. So cutting of hands is ruled out. Besides, this saying comes just after that, “But if the thief repent after his crime, and amend his conduct, Allah turns to him in forgiveness; for Allah is Most forgiving, Most Merciful.” How could this be applied if someone has his hands cut off?
The thing is, the wording of the quran states it is the hand, not the wealth etc tat should be cut off. All the translated version points to the fact tat it points to the physical hands, not the things u want it to mean. If the thief repent after the crime, he can still go to heaven. And tat is it. He can also plead for forgiveness before his hands were cut off too. There r a lot of punishment tat u can never amend back as well, such as being caned or being jailed etc. Why should tis be different from them ? Don't u think it is shallow if u allow people to turn in for "forgiveness" just because he want to escape punishment ?There goes your hasty assumptions again. There are verses concerning that elsewhere in the Qu'ran and Hadith. You are very selective in your reading. Next, how is having four wives lewd? Isnt it better to acknowledge a women as his wife rather than being a mistress, a kept woman whom society looks down upon? If you need to know, you must have the permission of the first wife before you can take another.
How is having 4 wives lewd ? It certainly is more lewd than having 1 wife. It certainly is better to have a person have a single wife and no mistress or kept women etc. If the first wife don't give permission, then just divorce her lor... the male has the power to divorce his wife just by saying it out to her isn't it ?Nopez.. its like i've said it above
There is nothing to be shameful about it being sexists. Jewish, Christian, catholic and muslim teachings r sexist to a certain extent. Surely u got to agree tat according to these scriptures, men r treated differently compared with women.I've mentioned it concerns habitual fornication, like prostitution, premarital sex included. For watching porn, dressing sexily , masturbating, those are are personal, not social wrongs. Therefore, they are not included.
According to muslim teachings, these r indeed social wrongs. It had explicitly mention just lewdness and it can means a lot of things. I am pretty sure thousands of years ago in all muslim communities, masturbation, dressing sexily. watching porn etc r prohibited for women. Your social wrong comes after being in being in a modern society for so long.Its not me, it was what i was taught
Maybe u should be more pro active in your learning than just being taught straight from your religious leaders. They r human after allI need to repeat once more? Haiz.. After they were counselled and repented, turned back to theri religion, that is when God has saved them in a way, "or Allah ordain for them some (other) way." So yay.
I said before, u treat prostitution as a mental diesease or something tat need some psychology counselling. It is not ! in muslim community, if there ever was a prostitute, it is more likely she do it because of the great need of money and not because she enjoy so. As said by the translator, such means from allah can only come with legislation, not on any whim and fancy. -
Okay lah if you insist on your intepretation too and some major assumptions again. I cant do anything anymore. Ill just clear this up.
For theft: To give chance for the thieves to acknowledge their crime and give back what was stolen. They might even get a reward. If they do not come forward, proof should be found who are the theieves. Then they should work to pay the fees involved for the whole thing. What was stolen, if found, should be returned to their owners. Otherwise, theives should work to repay their debt until it is fulfilled.
For prostituion and premarital sex: They get reformation at home including thier family. Finish... -
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For theft: To give chance for the thieves to acknowledge their crime and give back what was stolen. They might even get a reward. If they do not come forward, proof should be found who are the theieves. Then they should work to pay the fees involved for the whole thing. What was stolen, if found, should be returned to their owners. Otherwise, theives should work to repay their debt until it is fulfilled.
However according to the quran, it stated tat their hands had to be cut off. U just keep saying your opinion but without references to the verse in the quran. Why don't u ask the english readers wat impression do they get from reading these lines ?
And thief, either male or female, cut the hand of both; this is recompense for their earning and terrible punishment from Allâh. The Power of Allâh is prevailing over everything and HE is All-Wise and Watchful.
For prostituion and premarital sex: They get reformation at home including thier family. Finish...
Tis is again another misinterpretation. Surely an english reader can see from the verse below tat women r punish if they commit acts of lewdness, which can include issues such as masturbation, dressing sexily etc. And it also meant tat they have to be under "house arrest" for possibly forever. Tis fact is compounded with the fact tat in olden times, acts of lewdness such as masturbation, dressing sexily, pre-marital sex etc is strictly prohibited in all muslim communities.
As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation). -
Stupidissmart, I noticed you like to dig for stones in eggs. Not only in this thread, but in Gazelle's thread about cocaine abuse in the same forum. Please stop it. it is extremely irritating. if I were in admin, you will get a 30 day break.
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I want to stop this discussion you know.
However according to the quran, it stated tat their hands had to be cut off. U just keep saying your opinion but without references to the verse in the quran. Why don't u ask the english readers wat impression do they get from reading these lines ?
At first thought, okay, people may see it that way but there are "hidden meanings" underneath. Then comes research, refering to the Hadith, a collection of the Prophet's sayings and deeds. Next, comes advice from the scholars to fill in any possible blanks. And that is how i came to my conclusion of what i posted. Okay? We still refer to the verse of "cutting hands" but again in the figurative meaning.And it also meant tat they have to be under "house arrest" for possibly forever.
I've explained how after they've reformed, they'll be allowed to do their daily activities outside of home. Please re read.Tis fact is compounded with the fact tat in olden times, acts of lewdness such as masturbation, dressing sexily etc is strictly prohibited in all muslim communities.
It is still prohibited, but its up to you wether you want to follow or not right? Once more, those are personal wrongs, between the person and God, not social crimes where it affects the community, therefore, you don't get punished with it. -
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on the other day when i read the internet news, saw one article of a boy being canned when he was charged raping his teacher.
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I want to stop this discussion you know.
but obviously u r still continuing with it. Obviously your continuous replies to it is a sign tat u want to continue the discussion.At first thought, okay, people may see it that way but there are "hidden meanings" underneath. Then comes research, refering to the Hadith, a collection of the Prophet's sayings and deeds. Next, comes advice from the scholars to fill in any possible blanks. And that is how i came to my conclusion of what i posted. Okay? We still refer to the verse of "cutting hands" but again in the figurative meaning.
Then, the scholars can come out with different conclusions, as can be seen tat tis act is indeed practised till recent times. In fact it may still be practised now. U say tat there r hidden meaning, but r we supose to "find hidden meanings" when it is stated in the quran tat your god stated 4 times "Easy have we made the Quran to understand; is there anyone who will pay heed?" Perhaps God wants to repeat this message because He knows that there will be boneheads "scholars" who will want to insist otherwise. (adapted from a website)I've explained how after they've reformed, they'll be allowed to do their daily activities outside of home. Please re read.
I had explained tat ypur interpretation is wrong. Please re readIt is still prohibited, but its up to you wether you want to follow or not right? Once more, those are personal wrongs, between the person and God, not social crimes where it affects the community, therefore, you don't get punished with it.
However your god do states tat they get punished as such, muslim scholars do interprete it as such ,implement the policies as such, and people do get punished as such. In some muslim communities now tis law is still very much active. U say it is somethign between god and the peson, but too bad your god want other muslims to punish these acts of lewdness. If they don't punish these acts of "lewdness" they r classified as "disobedience". -
double post.
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but obviously u r still continuing with it. Obviously your continuous replies to it is a sign tat u want to continue the discussion.
When somebody gives misconceptions on my religion, the least i can do is to try defending it right? But i really want to stop.U say tat there r hidden meaning, but r we supose to "find hidden meanings
Forget i said that. Thats not true. THis is all complicated. 
I had explained tat ypur interpretation is wrong. Please re read
Okay you are right then but that runs in contrast with the moderate muslims.However your god do states tat they get punished as such, muslim scholars do interprete it as such ,implement the policies as such, and people do get punished as such. In some muslim communities now tis law is still very much active. U say it is somethign between god and the peson, but too bad your god want other muslims to punish these acts of lewdness. If they don't punish these acts of "lewdness" they r classified as "disobedience";.
Haiz... I've told you before that some of today's muslim societies are not model societies, they are infested with ills or evils, totally evident i guess. These people, they are praciticing Islamic Law primitively, away from the intentions and objectives of it.
Lets quit this discussion alright? (The last edit) -
I think I had few misconceptions about your religion. If moderate muslim want to make the scripture more in tune with today society, I fully support it. But in fact I hope it tuned itself much more so tat muslim can be more equiped to adapt to today's society. However my intention is to hope tat more people will not become committed in any religion. Then they will become really liberated. But anyway I had digressed and is guilty of accusing of spreading my own "religion".
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Yay.. what a nice ending.
What you said is really something to think of. -
Yup, I support stupidissmart!
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enough of pork...how about dogs and toilets whereby muslims are not allowed to use toilet paper to clean after business and such......instead they must use water? Not allow to touch dogs?.........Originally posted by dumbdumb!:is this an argument about pork? sheesh. get with the topic la ok?
truthfully, although most muslims will credit the health reasons for them not eating pork. thats not the main reason la.. first thing that comes to their mind is it is unclean spiritually. the health reasons are "by the way" reasons.
which reminds me. i had this friend, retarded, during primary school, he brought alot of bbq pork to sch to share with his friends. kids are so young, so innocent. so his malay friends asked what was that.
my friend said it was something delicious, and invited them to try, being a nice fella. so his malay friends happily helped themselves with the bbq pork, and enjoyed themselves very much. said it was really tasty, but never tasted this flavour before. so they asked what is it.
being so innocent. he was chiding them, "you never eat this before?! its pork!"
they all stared at him and rushed to the toilet to throw up.
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OIE BALLS TO ALL OF YOU LAH. You think i transparent izzit? Told you all liaow, people have the rights to choose the religion they want and how they want to practice it. If you can't accept that, all of you are damned shallow minded. If people want to follow their believes you have no rights at all to say my god is greater than thou or free thinking is greater than your religion or whatsoever. You are just being very immature. So stp trying to act cool or smart and start criticising another religion. i am going to close this thread within 24 hours. Shame on you people who talk so much about rights and yet you criticise one's religion.
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Oh com'on...this is just a discussion. Ain't some of the topics here are critical too?
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Stupidissmart would have been looking at a 30 day vacation if I replaced that imbecile Jason as the admin. You could be next in line if you support him.Originally posted by hoMMe:Oh com'on...this is just a discussion. Ain't some of the topics here are critical too?