RMAF capabilities?
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Dogfighting Hawk? Well, this i feel would be a bit out of the little plane's league. It may be used for close air support, if properly equipped. One important part about dogfighting, is having enough power to make hard turns, while maintaining stable flight. The Hawk can't do that.
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Does RMN have any Submarines in service? Even training or "Semi-floatable" ones. Anyone has ever seen a periscope feather while out in the seas around Singapore?
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well, they do have a ship called the Hang Tuah (named after one of the greatest heros in Malay folk legend) that does not really go out to sea, and which rumours say stays above water only because it rests at the bottom of its dock... ;-)
dogfighting is about all the Hawk CAN do, cause it doesn't have a sophisticated radar...i believe it only can use sidewinders and its gun armament...i hear it is quite manueverable though...but as you said, it suffers from energy problems in turns... -
Hmmm, I wont call the APG-66H an 'unsophisticated radar'.... the Hawk 209s they have should not be written off so easily, as they are upgraded with a heavy emphasis on combat.... interestingly, they are the only Hawk models with air-refueling capability...
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Seriously, APG-66 or not. Hawks in Dogfights will be chewed to bits. Sidewinders can only fire 30 degrees off boresight, Hawks will still have to try bringing their nose on speedier targets. Making such hard turns reduces airspeed, and airspeed is crucial in aircombat. It doesnt have the power to regain its airspeed, hence its a dead duck.
If the Hawkeyes aren't a factor, then I would try running a small flight of Hawks low, radar off and emcon. Might be able to pull off a hit and run with the hawks. -
well, flying low or terrain following might be useful...except for the presence of our 'moat'...even if it is only pretty narrow, anything moving fast over the flat surface should be pretty obvious to the Hawkeyes, ...which incidentally, the RSAF is looking for replacements...
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RSAF looking for replacement to the Hawkeye? A little early for that, dontcha think? Especially after the recent upgrades done by ST... If we are really replacing that, what do you think we would get? The Wedgetail, or the Hawkeye config after the Hawkeye 2000( the one with the UHF electronically scanned array radar, which is still under development).....
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No, I think they will be looking for just additional early warning platforms. Then we can release more planes for exercise overseas, without stretching the ones remaining too much.
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I did read somewhere (I believe its Flight International) that RSAF is looking at replacing or supplementing Hawkeyes in the future. Wedgetail will be the platform Boeing will be trying to pitch to RSAF.Originally posted by YourFather:RSAF looking for replacement to the Hawkeye? A little early for that, dontcha think? Especially after the recent upgrades done by ST... If we are really replacing that, what do you think we would get? The Wedgetail, or the Hawkeye config after the Hawkeye 2000( the one with the UHF electronically scanned array radar, which is still under development)..... -
well, i read that they are looking for a replacement from Jane's quite some time ago...they had looked at Hawkeye2000, but thought that the next plane after that would be better...seeing as the USN hasn't made a choice themselves, i guess it is still up in the air...
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The USN HAS already made a choice. Originally the AWACS platform was to be on the CSA(Common Support Aircraft), but it was cancelled, and now its decided that the Hawkeye will shoulder the responsibility well into the this century, with the new UHF array, of course.
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Wow. Actually I feel the Hawkeye isn't that outdate yet. Okay yes it usese Props, but those props are really economical on fuel.
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Its the radar not the props. Even the Israeli Phalcons are more advanced. RSAF should look at electronic scanned array radar for their next AWACS platform. Secondly, Hawkeyes are too slow to keep up with jets. If RSAF wants to send a strike package, the AWACS will have to be able to fly close to the strike package speed. Thus, Wedgetail or E3 AWACS are better platforms for such missions.Originally posted by Shotgun:Wow. Actually I feel the Hawkeye isn't that outdate yet. Okay yes it usese Props, but those props are really economical on fuel. -
Why would our Hawkeyes need to keep up with our jets?? I mean, that radar has A LOT Of distance. Chances are, wherever our jets go, they would still be under coverage. Unless you're talking about having that extra speed for quick repositioning?
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Speed is not such a big issue for AWACS platforms. Follow a strike package?! Hello, you trying to get your ultra-valuable AWACS killed or what? :-) The E-2 radar has a range of over 200 nautical miles, deinitely MORE than enuff. What is more important is endurance and operating altitude. Anyway, Hawkeye will be coming with a new Electronically-scanned array next time, though the Wedgetail( which will be upgraded by then) will provide even better capability at a fraction of the E-3's cost. The current Hawkeye suffers from large sidelobes, making it susceptible to jamming and Electro Magnetic Inteference. Furthermore, its over land operating capability is hampered by its relatively lower frequency UHF pulses.Originally posted by Joe Black:Its the radar not the props. Even the Israeli Phalcons are more advanced. RSAF should look at electronic scanned array radar for their next AWACS platform. Secondly, Hawkeyes are too slow to keep up with jets. If RSAF wants to send a strike package, the AWACS will have to be able to fly close to the strike package speed. Thus, Wedgetail or E3 AWACS are better platforms for such missions. -
Didn't Flight International report a while ago that Singapore was pausing a decision on its AEW until Australia made a decision. well now that the aussies have gone for the Wedgetail its likely we will follow suit. As for problems with the E-2s I have read something which agreed with what YourFather has said: that the E-2s lower UHF frequency hampers its ability over land, although in the current regional threat environment jamming is less of a worry. I do think that why the E-2s have not been upgraded significantly(face it: the so-called local upgrade is cosmetic) and why we haven't purchased more is that we are definitely looking at more advanced AEW systems. This is however secondary, and I don't really believe that the powers that be have placed too high a priority on this for the moment...Originally posted by YourFather:Speed is not such a big issue for AWACS platforms. Follow a strike package?! Hello, you trying to get your ultra-valuable AWACS killed or what? :-) The E-2 radar has a range of over 200 nautical miles, deinitely MORE than enuff. What is more important is endurance and operating altitude. Anyway, Hawkeye will be coming with a new Electronically-scanned array next time, though the Wedgetail( which will be upgraded by then) will provide even better capability at a fraction of the E-3's cost. The current Hawkeye suffers from large sidelobes, making it susceptible to jamming and Electro Magnetic Inteference. Furthermore, its over land operating capability is hampered by its relatively lower frequency UHF pulses.
BTW, sending your AEW platform with an inbound strike package is akin to suicide. The AEW platform is supposed to stay inside friendly airspace to help extend you control of your own airspace and give your guys extra sets of eyes when they in enemy territory. Maybe you've got it mixed up with EW and SEAD assets which are the ones accompanying the strike package, of which the E-2 is not... -
By the way, are E-2's easily detectable on radar or ECM sensors? I mean, the radar is like practically on all the time to provide continuous coverage. Wouldn't long range missiles like R-77s or better pose a threat to these rather unmaneuverable elements?
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That's what the CAPs are for. The E-2 would have vectored interceptors to the incoming bandits long before they are within missile range of the E-2s. These things are like the 'King' on the chessboard. Extremely vulnerable, but everything depends on them. If the E-2 really gets threatened by Bandits, something must have gone very wrong.
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My mistakes for misleading what I meant in my earlier comment.... Sending E-2 together with the strike package is indeed sucidal.Originally posted by Viper52:BTW, sending your AEW platform with an inbound strike package is akin to suicide. The AEW platform is supposed to stay inside friendly airspace to help extend you control of your own airspace and give your guys extra sets of eyes when they in enemy territory. Maybe you've got it mixed up with EW and SEAD assets which are the ones accompanying the strike package, of which the E-2 is not...
What I was trying to say that E-2C APG-125 radar has a range of 250 KM (maybe more). However, RSAF will be looking at sending aircraft for deep penetration strikes. This will involve aircraft going beyond the 250 radius. The E-2C will have to direct friendly aircraft to provide air cover. This may involve flying over enemies territory. Assuming that the E-2C are protected by air superiority fighters/interceptors, they will still have to move with sufficient speed to keep up with the tempo of the warfare. Secondly, I believe the AWACS type aircraft do fly in a "zip-zap" pattern. I am not suggeting that the AEW aircrafts take unnecessary risk and expose themselves to harms way. I am suggesting that to assist providing early warning coverage for the strike packages where the targets are deep in the enemy's land, the AEW might have to fly over enemy's land.
I am observing that both Japan and Israel are phasing out their E2C in favor of jet-based AWACS and Phalcon platforms. The RAAF also did not consider the Hercs-cum-AEW bid seriously too. Wedgetail was the favourite, followed by the Airbus/Raytheon/IAI bid.
Just my 2 cents -
I'd rather Singapore gets a ground-surveillance platform like ASTOR, than buying a new AEW platform. Proper data-links must be provided to the ground forces too to enable them to get the information . At most, upgrade the Hawkeyes to the Hawkeye 2000 config(without the CEC equipment, of course). Like this, I believe our combat capability will be better enhanced.
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Actually, having more AEW platforms would really help. I mean, we can afford to release more crew and platform for joint-exercises. That would give us valuable experience.
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I would prefer a airborne system. Looking at the picture from 30000 feet is a lot different from ground level. Ground clutter, while not totally eliminated, would be less of a factor, and its mobility means it can watch activity from different vantage points(int'l airspace in SCS or Malacca Straits for example) under close escort of course.Originally posted by YourFather:I'd rather Singapore gets a ground-surveillance platform like ASTOR, than buying a new AEW platform. Proper data-links must be provided to the ground forces too to enable them to get the information . At most, upgrade the Hawkeyes to the Hawkeye 2000 config(without the CEC equipment, of course). Like this, I believe our combat capability will be better enhanced.
Like I mentioned before, I do believe a more advanced AEW system is in the long term procurement plans, however this will be given less priority until the new fighter and naval/land helo contracts are sorted out first... -
Concur.Originally posted by Viper52:I would prefer a airborne system. Looking at the picture from 30000 feet is a lot different from ground level. Ground clutter, while not totally eliminated, would be less of a factor, and its mobility means it can watch activity from different vantage points(int'l airspace in SCS or Malacca Straits for example) under close escort of course.
Like I mentioned before, I do believe a more advanced AEW system is in the long term procurement plans, however this will be given less priority until the new fighter and naval/land helo contracts are sorted out first...
Early warning aircrafts not only serve to provide huge radar coverage, they also are force multipliers during combat.
They act as airborne air traffic controllers, vectoring fighters to engage charlies at the best possible firing angle. They also give fighters some degree of "stealth" (fighters may not need to depend on their onboard radars for detecting enemies aircraft if they have Link 4 or Link 16). More advanced fighters like the Raptors could even send targetting information via a 3rd party source (eg, a second Raptor's radar or from an AEW/AWACS) to the AMRAAMs, and fire them in complete stealth mode.
Singapore should start looking at getting another 4 to 6 jet based AEW/AWACS in my opinion. I think RMAF will be getting AEW soon too, the problem is only when.
Lastly, in the spirit of keeping two steps ahead of the Malaysia armed forces, perhaps RSAF can look at getting long range anti-radiation missiles or either Israeli origin or even Chinese made
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If we get Typhoon, we will probably get the ALARM, which is a more capable system than the HARM, due to its loiter capability. In the Gulf war(or is it Bosnia?), tens of HARMs were shot at a radar transmitter, but all missed because it shut down B4 the missiles hit, but 1 ALARM destroyed it due to its loiter and location memory system.
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Well, RSAF could have already bought ALARM had they wanted so. F-16 Block 50 is compatible with ALARM, perhaps with some slight software modification to the fire control system. I have seen ALARM depicted as one of the weapons F-16 can carry.Originally posted by YourFather:If we get Typhoon, we will probably get the ALARM, which is a more capable system than the HARM, due to its loiter capability. In the Gulf war(or is it Bosnia?), tens of HARMs were shot at a radar transmitter, but all missed because it shut down B4 the missiles hit, but 1 ALARM destroyed it due to its loiter and location memory system.
BTW, could anyone confirm if AGM-45 Strike is the only anti-radiation missile in RSAF inventory? Why haven't they consider buying either the HARM or ALARM?