You want Casino?
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complain complain complain
everyday also complain
make money also complain
doesn't make money also complain
no jobs also complain
build casino to make job also complain
make policy complain
doesn't make policy also complain
got money then merry
no money can't marry
Always say can't stand
yet fail to understand
"u want to gain
then suffer the pain"
complain complain complain
everything also complain -
Pain is gain,
Gain is pain,
Good is bad,
Bad is good,
To the end,
All is pain and not gain,
Where the goodness,
When all is suffering,
Who has no pain but gain,
Only the king and his men.
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short term pain
beats long term pain
if scared of pain
give other chance to gain
in the end worse pain and less gain
king has family too
he too scare of pain
but gain have to go through pain
getting poetic huh... I admit i am a lousy poet
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samah samah
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I am sure that you agree with me that the freedom of choice is an important value in any system. You want to be free to choose your government. It is based on that same premise that you want to have competition between companies, and anti-monopoly rules to block companies like Microsoft.Originally posted by goh meng seng:It is strange indeed. Nobody in his right mind would want their children to be gamblers but there are people who would support Casino!
Never mind about that. For those who want a casino here, have you done your research thoroughly? Don't just write off "social cost" so easily; PAP knows they could not argue against the apparent high "social cost", thus, they just say it is not about social cost vs economic gains. That's cool and neat but simply put it, they are just sweeping the dirt below the carpet!
Of course, with a twist, they say it is about OUR MATURITY as a society! Cool. Nobody wants to be seen as "immature" and not agreeing to have a Casino would be seen as "IMMATURE"! Hahaha. That's strange. If you know the odds of losing in a casino, any MATURE human being will not be visiting the casino! Then, the most important question to ask is, why have a casino in the very first place to hoodwink those "IMMATURE" ones?
I would suggest for those who thinks Casino could bring in all the monies, do some research first. Try to do a search on googles with "NGISC", short form for "National Gambling Impact Studies Commission". This is a study commissioned by the world's most liberal govt on earth, USA. See for yourselves what's in it for us if we go ahead with a casino.
And strategically speaking, we will all become suckers in the end of the day. I will touch on this later.
Goh Meng Seng
Given that, I am sure that based on newspaper surveys, the population is evenly split with no clear majority over the issue of a casino.
Based on the tenet of freedom of choice, I support the setting up of a casino in Singapore. People should be free to choose whether they want to patronise a casino, or stay away from it. Already, the government has imposed a $100 price for a day's entry into the casino. That would have prevented those who cannot afford it from going in and digging a deep trench out of their own finances. Those turned away would eventually find Singapore Pools' Toto and 4D draws a source of satisfaction for their gambling habit.
Casinos are being ostracised as a betrayer of moral values. Why don't they point to Singapore Pools? Gambling is in every facet of our lives.
If we are proven to be immature in our thinking, then why are we still allowed to choose our own government? Isn't the governance of our country an even more serious obligation than the Casino issue? Why don't we have an outright dictatorship, since we can't decide for ourselves whether to use a casino as an avenue of entertainment, or as a money spinner?
Parents complaining about casinos are not spared responsibility. Being the caregivers of their children, they are responsible for the upbringing of their children, not the government. If they point to a casino as immediately influencing their child to gamble, they are definitely foolish. Again, Singapore Pools will end up taking their child's bets, while Singapore loses out on millions of dollars worth of lucrative tourist dollars.
A casino does not impact on our social values in Singapore. If that were the case, why do we still tolerate Singapore Pools' existence in Singapore? -
First, the imposed of S$100 is to deter jobless people who are trying to pluck a small ''fortune'' from the casino. Can they stop people with income of a few thousands dollars a month???, and are these average income people mature enough not to dig their own trench or grave.....?Originally posted by pkchukiss:I am sure that you agree with me that the freedom of choice is an important value in any system. You want to be free to choose your government. It is based on that same premise that you want to have competition between companies, and anti-monopoly rules to block companies like Microsoft.
Given that, I am sure that based on newspaper surveys, the population is evenly split with no clear majority over the issue of a casino.
Based on the tenet of freedom of choice, I support the setting up of a casino in Singapore. People should be free to choose whether they want to patronise a casino, or stay away from it. Already, the government has imposed a $100 price for a day's entry into the casino. That would have prevented those who cannot afford it from going in and digging a deep trench out of their own finances. Those turned away would eventually find Singapore Pools' Toto and 4D draws a source of satisfaction for their gambling habit.
Casinos are being ostracised as a betrayer of moral values. Why don't they point to Singapore Pools? Gambling is in every facet of our lives.
If we are proven to be immature in our thinking, then why are we still allowed to choose our own government? Isn't the governance of our country an even more serious obligation than the Casino issue? Why don't we have an outright dictatorship, since we can't decide for ourselves whether to use a casino as an avenue of entertainment, or as a money spinner?
Parents complaining about casinos are not spared responsibility. Being the caregivers of their children, they are responsible for the upbringing of their children, not the government. If they point to a casino as immediately influencing their child to gamble, they are definitely foolish. Again, Singapore Pools will end up taking their child's bets, while Singapore loses out on millions of dollars worth of lucrative tourist dollars.
A casino does not impact on our social values in Singapore. If that were the case, why do we still tolerate Singapore Pools' existence in Singapore?
Those can't afford to pay for entry fee to gamble will end up with robbery, cheating and thelf for the sake of gambling thrill!!!!
I can bet with you that many people will get addicted, and in form of gambling in casinos in quite different from people who betting 4D. Most 4D players will very likely to set limit in their betting.
As compare to gambling in casino; you will lose more than betting 4D. I myself have experience that before.
In my life, I haven't got a chance to vote any party in Singapore.
Yes!!!! Casinos are ostracised as a betrayer of moral values. Just look at the bloody Scratchit, many ''ah soh'' already got addicted to it. To strike 20,000 the chances are 250,000 to 1. You think ''ah soh'' are thinking of donation?
Newspaper surveys??? I don't trust Have you ever stay long period in Macau? IF you never, then don't jump into conclusion.
Can u or everyone guarantee your or their children won't get addicted to gambling or becoming drug addicted. So... if your son or daughter being charged for criminals offence you also go to jail hor......
Maybe you should propose to GOV to legalise taking drugs for rich and mature people as well and it can also generate huge revenue wah..., but for poor people is a deadly offence. Recently, the high profile people's son caught with taking drug....hem...I think the father should be charged too..... for being irresponble father of the son.
Parents got no right to complain meh???....Government are equally responsible for both its people and their young children. If not, then don't call us up for NS loh....
So our ex-Development Minister Teh Cheng Guan was so mature that he has to corrupt? OR it is Teh Cheng Guan's parents was so irresponsible for not telling him that is wrong to corrupt??? Teh's parents must be foolish!!!!
I have been hoping that the government will close down all the 4D and horse betting outlets.
We have no other ways for an avenue of entertainment, or as a money spinner? Why must be a casino??? Then Bali should have casinos too!!!!! -
Of course!!! we must complain. You think our government are perfect meh...if you do not want to see people complain; you can shut your eyes wah...Originally posted by stupidissmart:complain complain complain
everyday also complain
make money also complain
doesn't make money also complain
no jobs also complain
build casino to make job also complain
make policy complain
doesn't make policy also complain
got money then merry
no money can't marry
Always say can't stand
yet fail to understand
"u want to gain
then suffer the pain"
complain complain complain
everything also complain -
First, the imposed of S$100 is to deter jobless people who are trying to pluck a small ''fortune'' from the casino. Can they stop people with income of a few thousands dollars a month???, and are these average income people mature enough not to dig their own trench or grave.....?
I don't support any restriction of access to people either. However do u want gov to propose some restrictions on the people going to casino ? Wat form of restriction should we implement if the answer is a yes ?Those can't afford to pay for entry fee to gamble will end up with robbery, cheating and thelf for the sake of gambling thrill!!!!
If they can't afford to go into the casino, then it just meant they will never experience being in the casino at all and therefore the casino meant little to these people. They can pay just $100 instead of a $1000 to go genting instead.I can bet with you that many people will get addicted, and in form of gambling in casinos in quite different from people who betting 4D. Most 4D players will very likely to set limit in their betting.
There r casinoes in genting and cruise ship. We even have a turf club here. Why don't u compare addiction with these few choices ?
As compare to gambling in casino; you will lose more than betting 4D. I myself have experience that before.Yes!!!! Casinos are ostracised as a betrayer of moral values. Just look at the bloody Scratchit, many ''ah soh'' already got addicted to it. To strike 20,000 the chances are 250,000 to 1. You think ''ah soh'' are thinking of donation?
All gambling facilities have the odds against the players. U don't expect the gambling facilities to run on nothing or performing charity.Newspaper surveys??? I don't trust Have you ever stay long period in Macau? IF you never, then don't jump into conclusion.
Wat do newspaper survery have anything to do with macau ??? The result of the newspaper survey must be right. Otherwise the gov will probably never publish or gloat over itCan u or everyone guarantee your or their children won't get addicted to gambling or becoming drug addicted. So... if your son or daughter being charged for criminals offence you also go to jail hor......
Can u guarantee your son and daugter will not be a gambling addict even if the casino is not open ? U can't guarantee tat your son or daughter will live 5 years later as well. Can u guarantee u never get cancer tomorrow ? Can u guarantee tat a war will never break up between singapore and malaysia for the next generation of singapore ? It is not anything attacking your children but it just shows tat asking for guarantee is pretty dumb.Maybe you should propose to GOV to legalise taking drugs for rich and mature people as well and it can also generate huge revenue wah..., but for poor people is a deadly offence. Recently, the high profile people's son caught with taking drug....hem...I think the father should be charged too..... for being irresponble father of the son.
Drugs is drugs, gambling is gambling. Lets focus on just gambling in this thread. As for the father being charged if their son is a criminal is probably something tat no one wants. Why don't u poll the people and see the response ?Parents got no right to complain meh???....Government are equally responsible for both its people and their young children. If not, then don't call us up for NS loh....
The gov people or the people who support the casino have families as well. It is after seeing the pros and cons of a casin before they decide to have one.So our ex-Development Minister Teh Cheng Guan was so mature that he has to corrupt? OR it is Teh Cheng Guan's parents was so irresponsible for not telling him that is wrong to corrupt??? Teh's parents must be foolish!!!!
why has he got to do with anything about casino ??? I am pretty sure the corruption level for singapore is one of the lowest in the world. If u say tat corruption is a sign of being immature, then our low level of corruption meant tat we r very mature.I have been hoping that the government will close down all the 4D and horse betting outlets.
Then more people will hate the gov for it. Frankly the majority of the people here do bet 4DWe have no other ways for an avenue of entertainment, or as a money spinner? Why must be a casino??? Then Bali should have casinos too!!!!!
Why don't u suggest some ? I have heard a lot of people talking about building other things other than a casino but they can't suggest anythingOf course!!! we must complain. You think our government are perfect meh...if you do not want to see people complain; you can shut your eyes wah...
There is no such thing as a perfect thing. Why don't u name me a perfect (perfect = cannot not be improved) thing ? Why don't u name me a perfect government ? If u want to complain about things tat they had done wrong. i may even support u. But if u wanna talk about EVERYTHING and ANYTHING they done, even the good policy or inevitable policies, and purposely attack them just because u do not like PAP, then u r disruptive and make give other genuine "opposition" a bad name. Do u believe PAP is "perfectly" lousy ? -
You are just plucking ass from your perception of reality in Singapore. If you have truely understand the situation. You would not have given such replies with freaking reasons.Originally posted by stupidissmart:There is no such thing as a perfect thing. Why don't u name me a perfect (perfect = cannot not be improved) thing ? Why don't u name me a perfect government ? If u want to complain about things tat they had done wrong. i may even support u. But if u wanna talk about EVERYTHING and ANYTHING they done, even the good policy or inevitable policies, and purposely attack them just because u do not like PAP, then u r disruptive and make give other genuine "opposition" a bad name. Do u believe PAP is "perfectly" lousy ?
Last few days, in the parliaments debates. So.. are you going to tell those MPs to eat shit whom they brought up some relevant issues in Parliament house?????
Further, a tiny dot Singapore and if our government cannot manage properly than I will have to take over. -
WHy don't u go ahead and take over now ?
Further, a tiny dot Singapore and if our government cannot manage properly than I will have to take over. how old r u anyway ? -
Originally posted by Lowclassman:
You have not gotten the essence of my post.
First, the imposed of S$100 is to deter jobless people who are trying to pluck a small ''fortune'' from the casino. Can they stop people with income of a few thousands dollars a month???, and are these average income people mature enough not to dig their own trench or grave.....?
[b]Those can't afford to pay for entry fee to gamble will end up with robbery, cheating and thelf for the sake of gambling thrill!!!!
I can bet with you that many people will get addicted, and in form of gambling in casinos in quite different from people who betting 4D. Most 4D players will very likely to set limit in their betting.
As compare to gambling in casino; you will lose more than betting 4D. I myself have experience that before.
In my life, I haven't got a chance to vote any party in Singapore.
Yes!!!! Casinos are ostracised as a betrayer of moral values. Just look at the bloody Scratchit, many ''ah soh'' already got addicted to it. To strike 20,000 the chances are 250,000 to 1. You think ''ah soh'' are thinking of donation?
Newspaper surveys??? I don't trust Have you ever stay long period in Macau? IF you never, then don't jump into conclusion.
Can u or everyone guarantee your or their children won't get addicted to gambling or becoming drug addicted. So... if your son or daughter being charged for criminals offence you also go to jail hor......
Maybe you should propose to GOV to legalise taking drugs for rich and mature people as well and it can also generate huge revenue wah..., but for poor people is a deadly offence. Recently, the high profile people's son caught with taking drug....hem...I think the father should be charged too..... for being irresponble father of the son.
Parents got no right to complain meh???....Government are equally responsible for both its people and their young children. If not, then don't call us up for NS loh....
So our ex-Development Minister Teh Cheng Guan was so mature that he has to corrupt? OR it is Teh Cheng Guan's parents was so irresponsible for not telling him that is wrong to corrupt??? Teh's parents must be foolish!!!!
I have been hoping that the government will close down all the 4D and horse betting outlets.
We have no other ways for an avenue of entertainment, or as a money spinner? Why must be a casino??? Then Bali should have casinos too!!!!!
[/b]
Gambling will still survive in Singapore whether casinos make an appearance or not. We have a variety of things you can bet on: horses, digits and lottery.
There are already gambling addicts around here, and casinos are not the cause of it. Are you going to ban all these because of these addicts?
Casinos will no more aggravate the situation than its status quo. The only difference casinos make is to our economy.
Parents are responsible for their child's upbringing. If your child happens to be a gambling addict, you have failed to impress upon your child properly the actual use for gambling. Gambling is a form of entertainment. The thrill of winning, and the sunken feeling of losing all makes up the gambling experience.
Why deny the rich from aiding our economy? -
Yes, I agreed. Parents are responsible for their child's upbringing, but can the parents ensure that their grown up children will not be influenced by the environment?Originally posted by pkchukiss:You have not gotten the essence of my post.
Gambling will still survive in Singapore whether casinos make an appearance or not. We have a variety of things you can bet on: horses, digits and lottery.
There are already gambling addicts around here, and casinos are not the cause of it. Are you going to ban all these because of these addicts?
Casinos will no more aggravate the situation than its status quo. The only difference casinos make is to our economy.
Parents are responsible for their child's upbringing. If your child happens to be a gambling addict, you have failed to impress upon your child properly the actual use for gambling. Gambling is a form of entertainment. The thrill of winning, and the sunken feeling of losing all makes up the gambling experience.
Why deny the rich from aiding our economy?
Even a highly educated Teh Cheng Guan which was deemed to be the most outstanding public figure as Boss of Ministry of Development could not even resist the temptation of $$$ and turned into corruption.
And there were numerous substantiate public figures holding high post had turned into cheating and corrupting due to gambling. APB-the finance manager Mr Chia cheated a few banks with hundreds of millions and there were many others including highly educated civil servants!!! Many more are corrupted and not been disclosed.
And so far......big case, two guys, one SIA-35 million dollars man and a guy from HongKong and Shangai Bank cheated the company due to betting in 4D; of course, this is don't know how many splits of a percentage as compared with our 4 million population.
But if for casino, well.....the numbers of addicted gamblers will not be as in splits of a percentage. Do you agree?
If you don't...then no point to debate further. -
i agree wif the building of casino becos help economy wad... den tourism also will increase.. byt muz restrict singaporean go.. rich ppl den can... if nt family broken .. also will create employment... next time u all see singapore gt alot foreigner sleep on the street cos all lose to singapore.. no money
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LKY mentioned on Sin Min today that those group of people whom objected to have casino will have to be strong influence, convincing and be wisely rationale of opposing to casino.
He, LKY personally do not agree casino in singapore. But puting up the above statement and he said, the new leader will have to decide on his own.
I don't know why he dare not admit that he has indirectly approved the casino?
If I were to be him, I will stand up bravely and explain to my people the situation of the world and the needs for our Singapore, due to we have no natural resources, limited specialists, changing world around us, fierce competitions and etc. LKY has been known to be the best speaker and I am sure with his ability and plus sincerity. He is well and capable of convincing most people whom had objected. But, I am disappointed that he has carry himself too highly and so called ''the new leader(s) will have to decide on his(thier) own.
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Quote from The Straits Times, 1 Feb 05 Page 3 PrimeOriginally posted by Lowclassman:LKY mentioned on Sin Min today that those group of people whom objected to have casino will have to be strong influence, convincing and be wisely rationale of opposing to casino.
He, LKY personally do not agree casino in singapore. But puting up the above statement and he said, the new leader will have to decide on his own.
I don't know why he dare not admit that he has indirectly approved the casino?
If I were to be him, I will stand up bravely and explain to my people the situation of the world and the needs for our Singapore, due to we have no natural resources, limited specialists, changing world around us, fierce competitions and etc. LKY has been know to be the best speaker and I am sure with his ability and plus sincerity. He is well and capable of convincing most people whom had objected. But, I am disappointed that he has carry himself too highly and so called ''the new leader(s) will have to decide on his(thier) own.
“He had stated that “gambling is not the way for Singapore to go”.”
“Mr Lee said of his own resistance to casinos: “I did not believe you get rich on it trying to build this ball spinning around the roulette.”
“I believe you get rich, or at least you make progress… by acquiring skills, the capital to start new business, improving those skills, doing better each time, widening your market, widening your skills. And that’s how we got there.”.
MM Lee is a man of principle.
For that matter, I remembered MM Lee had spoken before that if the casino was to be built in Singapore it would be over his death body.
I had said before, if we are against the building of casino in Singapore, we should all pray that MM Lee live to 120 years old. -
ok.Originally posted by PatrickLTH:Quote from The Straits Times, 1 Feb 05 Page 3 Prime
“He had stated that “gambling is not the way for Singapore to go”.”
“Mr Lee said of his own resistance to casinos: “I did not believe you get rich on it trying to build this ball spinning around the roulette.”
“I believe you get rich, or at least you make progress… by acquiring skills, the capital to start new business, improving those skills, doing better each time, widening your market, widening your skills. And that’s how we got there.”.
MM Lee is a man of principle.
For that matter, I remembered MM Lee had spoken before that if the casino was to be built in Singapore it would be over his death body.
I had said before, if we are against the building of casino in Singapore, we should all pray that MM Lee live to 120 years old.
kill him and we can build the casino. -
Your post does reflect your nick.Originally posted by crazy monkey:ok.
kill him and we can build the casino.
No matter what you said, with the number of people (who are against the building of Casino) praying for him , MM Lee will live to 120 years ++. -
you think he can live till 120 dummy ?Originally posted by PatrickLTH:Your post does reflect your nick.
No matter what you said, with the number of people (who are against the building of Casino) praying for him , MM Lee will live to 120 years ++.
pray for yourself lah. -
The arguments for/against a casino will never end. Maybe a referendum should be held to decide....
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Originally posted by Lowclassman:
How sure are you that the presence of a casino establishment will poison the environment? You are implying that children will get influenced by casinos merely with its presence. I am sure that the current government will disallow rampant advertisement of the casino. Besides, if children were so easily influenced, The Unbeatables (Mediacorp show) would not have been allowed in Singapore - it would have an even worse effect on children than a casino in itself, as the television show was piped into everybody's living rooms.
Yes, I agreed. Parents are responsible for their child's upbringing, but can the parents ensure that their grown up children will not be influenced by the environment?
Even a highly educated Teh Cheng Guan which was deemed to be the most outstanding public figure as Boss of Ministry of Development could not even resist the temptation of $$$ and turned into corruption.
And there were numerous substantiate public figures holding high post had turned into cheating and corrupting due to gambling. APB-the finance manager Mr Chia cheated a few banks with hundreds of millions and there were many others including highly educated civil servants!!! Many more are corrupted and not been disclosed.
And so far......big case, two guys, one SIA-35 million dollars man and a guy from HongKong and Shangai Bank cheated the company due to betting in 4D; of course, this is don't know how many splits of a percentage as compared with our 4 million population.
But if for casino, well.....the [b]numbers of addicted gamblers will not be as in splits of a percentage. Do you agree?
If you don't...then no point to debate further.[/b]
If we don't see an increase in the number of gamblers after three series of that show, I don't see why the mere presence of a casino can suddenly create more gamblers.
Adults giving in to temptation: so you feel that adults should be told what to do? Gamblers should be held from themselves? People telling you what is right, what isn't. What if I were the government, and I felt that you couldn't have a right to talk in the public, and banned it outright. Would you like it?
There can never be a perfect environment for growing up, and that statement of yours implies your approval for governmental control over what the people see, hear and feel. Are you sure that it is a good direction to take - a country whose people follow a uniform stance, think the same, walk the same? I personally would find it scary.
Can you please explain your last paragraph? It is incoherent. -
TAKE NOTE HERE!
Hi guys, it just confounds me to see the number of posts in this thread. Casino or not it is not up to us entirely.
Nevertheless, we can make the most out of what we have in our seemingly democratic society. Go to this URL to sign a petition against the casino project if you are a strong opposer of the casino conception and eventual materialisation in Singapore. If you are a proponent of the casino, you can just skip this post and go to the next.
http://www.facts.com.sg/
After signing the petition, take 5 minutes and write a mail to make our voice heard. You are definitely not alone. Write your thoughts about the casino at the Public Consultation Section at the bottom of the page here.
http://app.feedback.gov.sg/integrated_resort/ Deadline: March 2005 -
Yes, I definitely would encourage people from both sides to post their views on this forum. Isn't this what we have been asking for? Greater debate of issues?
Starting with this is a good one. I hope that this culture of gentlemenly debate will carry on.
I am sure if certain people are afraid of casinos being a bad influence to their children, we can implement measures to discriminate against allowing entry to them. A limit of a certain income level may be imposed as an entrance requirement. The credit bureuea can also be pulled in to block people with poor loan payment records from entering. Controlled advertising put in place, just like smoking.
The benefits of a casino cannot be ignored, especially when other countries are already having it, and are drawing cash that could have poured into our country. Imagine the number of derivative industries that can benefit from just setting up one here!
I hope the opposers do not reject the idea of a casino outright, and instead view this issue in a wider frame. -
I am hoping someone will create some webpage where people who r going for the casino to sign up and petitioned for the gov to start a casino.
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As posted to feedback unit:-
The pro- and anti-casino population at the moment is about half-half with a slight majority in favor of casino.
The anti-casino lot have given their views very strongly based on social and moral considerations.
The pro-casino lot have given their views in two ways:
(1) Gambling is already too deeply entrenched in Singaporeans so having a casino now does not necessarily mean souls will be sold to casino.
(2) Casino provides an opportunity to avoid the S$2.0 billion gambling losses to flow out of the country. There are new economic opportunities to develop based on our incomparable excellent location.
In view of Dr. Tony Tan's considered view that we should not rush into making a decision and Mr. George Yeo's caution, Dr. Vivian Balakrishnan will have to show that indeed: (a) economic pluses will be overwhelm all the social ills to convince the anti-casino lot to give it a try.
Words and rhetorics alone of Dr. Vivian Balakrishnan will not serve the purpose. To wait till the packaged proposals to be submitted by the operators too may not be that all convincing to the anti-casino people who are very passionate in their views.
Dr. Tony Tan is right. Until Dr. Balakrishnan is able to put forward a comprehensive economic plan to show how Singapore will benefit from having a casino in terms of how many jobs created and which industries will be correlated or integrated to draw on casino factor to stimulate growth, we really should not proceed with the decision of having a casino yet.
There is a need to approach the decision from an overall new economic plan, incorporating factors other countries or casinos have not considered as otherwise our future generations may blame on all of us if things go terribly wrong.
Our scholars do not as yet put up such a comprehensive plan to show how to prevent social problems and even overwhelm them with many many benefits through creative and entrepreneur governance which ministers lately have been promoting. -
Did anyone read Anthony Paul's commentary recently? Do you think Singapore will have the same problems as Paul's beloved Australia if the casino is built?