You want Casino?
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u mentioned statistics.. where did you get this info? or is it purely your own perception
I also want to put down the statistic on how gambling had already been part of singapore life
$20 million spend on online gaming
$2 billion spent on places like batam, genting etc anually
$3.5 billion on 4D anually
$2 billion horse betting
$0.5 billion toto
$0.18 billion soccer
$0.6 billion slot machines
$0.06 billion singapore sweep
and all these does not include the gambling amount on the 200 estimated underground gambling den here. If just 1/2 of the amount spent on overseas gambling just by singaporean is spend here, the revenue will be tremendous -
too little too late ?Originally posted by goh meng seng:A couple of months ago, I have advocated Referendum for Casino but some forumites say not possible. Now there are some PAP members who mention this in parliament, where are the critics?
Anyway, here's our press release:
WorkersÂ’ Party to seek public feedback before announcing its position on the Casino issue in April
The WorkersÂ’ Party will make public the partyÂ’s policy position on the Integrated Resort that will feature a Casino in April, closer to the PAP governmentÂ’s announced date of making its decision public in mid April.
To increase greater public participation in the policy process, the Workers' Party will be holding a Public Consultation Exercise on the proposal for a casino in Singapore. It will be held on Saturday, 5th March 2005 from 2 pm - 5pm at the WorkersÂ’ Party Headquarters, 216-G Syed Alwi Road, #02-03, Singapore 207799.
Following the Consultation Exercise the WorkersÂ’ Party will collate the views from the meeting and deliberate the issue at the party level.
There will be two speakers who are party members. Goh Meng Seng, aged 34 is a Singaporean graduate operating a company based in Hong Kong. He comes back regularly for WPÂ’s grassroots activity and writes for the Hammer.
Chia Ti Lik, aged 30 is a litigation lawyer and partner in the firm where he practices in Singapore. He is also assistant to Mr. Low Thia Khiang, MP for Hougang and a WP Youth Action Committee member.
Since the announcement of the Public Consultation Exercise in early February, the WorkersÂ’ Party has received a steady stream of email opinions on the casino issue. The views in these emails include those for and against the Casino proposal. These emails are from Singaporeans both residing in Singapore and abroad.
Given the number of views The Workers' Party has received via emails, the party will continue to solicit views on the Casino Proposal even after the Public Consultation Exercise.
Members of the public are invited to send their views to the Party via e-mail at [email protected] or by regular mail to: PO Box 15, Toa Payoh Central Post Office, Singapore 913101.
The Consultation Exercise will be moderated by James Gomez, Assistant Secretary-General (2nd). For more information, please call 6298-4765 or contact the undersigned at 8115-9667.
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Go read today's ST papers on ILP, kid. Do insurers/insurance agents adequately emphasise the charges and risks as much as the benefits? Do casino proponents emphasise as much the charges and risks (if any at all) or more on the benefits like the insurance agents? Who won at whose expense in the insurance complaint? Who do you think will win at whose expense in
U have a problem with insurance ? The proponents of the casino debate do bring out the pro and con on the argument. If u say the proponents of the casino debate r like insurance agents, then people who r against the casino r liek father in a church. They resist certain policies such as abortion, contraceptives, masturbation, wearing too sexily etc which in fact, is not very relevant nor make them competitive in today's society. There is a reason why the church and the state r seperated.
having a casino?
In comparing the church and state , I hope you're not saying the state is full of filth and corruption. How more we should not have a casino!!
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And if casino proponents say they do bring out the pros and cons,
then they should require casino operators to do similar product/ads
packaging like what they condoms and cigarette makers do
(warning of aids and cancer respectively) at the point of sale - warning of bankruptcy when cash are exchanged for chips.
No? Then how are they different from conmen? -
Dear Crazy Monkey,
It is neither too late nor too early. The timing is just right.
Tactically speaking, you choose the timing which will make the most impact, after all those proporgandas filths have been used up. Until there are no new perspective or view points, then you come and sum it up, make a stand from there.
We know that we are not going to stop the casino or affect the decision makers in any ways. But it is important to make our stand clear as a political party at the most appropriate timing. And we will have to live with whatever stand we made politically.
Goh Meng SengOriginally posted by crazy monkey:too little too late ? -
..... and score political points ? talk abt tactics and good timing. Really make a good impact with election coming up.Originally posted by goh meng seng:Dear Crazy Monkey,
It is neither too late nor too early. The timing is just right.
Tactically speaking, you choose the timing which will make the most impact, after all those proporgandas filths have been used up. Until there are no new perspective or view points, then you come and sum it up, make a stand from there.
We know that we are not going to stop the casino or affect the decision makers in any ways. But it is important to make our stand clear as a political party at the most appropriate timing. And we will have to live with whatever stand we made politically.
Goh Meng Seng -
u mentioned statistics.. where did you get this info? or is it purely your own perception
http://www.smu.edu.sg/news/smunews2004/sources/CNA_041117_1.pdf
The total amount of money singapore use for betting is indeed 6 billionIn comparing the church and state , I hope you're not saying the state is full of filth and corruption. How more we should not have a casino!!
I am saying the church is not in line with modern living and they make policies tat do not make the country become competitive. The bread and butter issues r equally important for the people. If u talk about the risks of casinoes, it had been mentioned before such as the gambling addicts etc. The things is it help poor people to be employed and increase the income of singaporean as well.And if casino proponents say they do bring out the pros and cons,
They r not even allowed to advertise.
then they should require casino operators to do similar product/ads
packaging like what they condoms and cigarette makers do -
Dear Crazy Monkey,
I do not think the casino issue is a good issue for elections, even though it would create negative feelings towards PAP when it carries out the plan.
For us, a stand is important, to tell Singaporeans where we stand. IF there is 50% supporting and 50% against casino, there isn't much political capital that could be derived out of this issue. We may even risk losing support if we make a clear stand on this issue.
But as a responsible political party, we will have to chose side, irregardless whether it will make us gain or lose votes. This casino sword could just cut both ways.
The tactical and strategic timing is for making awareness of our political stand on this issue. The impact or awareness is important for Singaporeans to know Workers' Party does care about the their future, the future of Singapore.
Goh Meng SengOriginally posted by crazy monkey:..... and score political points ? talk abt tactics and good timing. Really make a good impact with election coming up. -
I have no doubt an integrated resort without a casino can still create jobs for the poor and increase income. Why have a huge casino and let gambling addiction,
The bread and butter issues r equally important for the people. If u talk about the risks of casinoes, it had been mentioned before such as the gambling addicts etc. The things is it help poor people to be employed and increase the income of singaporean as well.
prostitution, crime, etc flourish when we already have many legal gambling outlets (says the PM)? -
I have no doubt an integrated resort without a casino can still create jobs for the poor and increase income. Why have a huge casino and let gambling addiction,
Companies do not want to develop an integrated resort without a casino. Why ? Because they can build it anywhere they want if it is just an integrated resort. All countries r begging companies to come over to their countries to build an integrated resort. Why build it in singapore ? They prefer to build it in places like china, macau, hong kong, thailand or malaysia isn't it ? Why waste investment in a place like singapore where the land is more expensive and the appeal to tourists is lesser. Have we not appeal to disney to set up a theme park here ? They prefer hong kong in the end.
prostitution, crime, etc flourish when we already have many legal gambling outlets (says the PM)? -
dear GMS, if u say it is the fault of low education levels then we can't blame the casinos, it is the fault of the government for not being able to properly and efficiently educate the masses.Originally posted by goh meng seng:Dear Vito Corleon,
You may be right, there are such people around which we term them as professional gamblers.
However, if everybody is like them, then most casinos will close shop isn't it? Casino is a zero sum game; i.e. if the casino makes money, it means many people will have to lose money. If you make money, it got to come from the casino losing it to you.
It would be totally naive to base analysis on such narrowly defined terms. From US govt commissioned study of gambling impact, it is found that those with lower education level are more bound to become problem or pathological gamblers. There are three or four categories of gamblers defined. Problem and pathological gamblers are of social concerns. These two part add together will form about 7% to 9% of total adult population. Do you understand what that means? We will have to look at the larger picture.
The study also shows that the incidence of problem and pathological gamblers increase significantly when there is a casino introduced nearby.
Now, this study is done by reputable agencies commissioned by the US govt. This is not some ill funded studies done by some ulu universities. The implications are wide ranging and worrying.
Goh Meng Seng -
next time when casino open only degree holders can go in.Originally posted by vito_corleone:dear GMS, if u say it is the fault of low education levels then we can't blame the casinos, it is the fault of the government for not being able to properly and efficiently educate the masses.
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Dear vito corleone,
You were hoping that a casino could do wealth re-distribution, I am plainly stating that according to research, it doesn't work that way. It is the other way round. You have taxes from casino so govt is ready to lower taxes for those rich people.
No matter how you look at it, a society is made up of different spectrum of people. You will always have lowly educated people around and that's a fact that we must accept.
Goh Meng SengOriginally posted by vito_corleone:dear GMS, if u say it is the fault of low education levels then we can't blame the casinos, it is the fault of the government for not being able to properly and efficiently educate the masses. -
for me, i only agree if the govt promise their control toward loadshark and other.
dont let the side effect, affect singaporean who dont gamble. just like dont make other ppl suffer 2nd hand smoke if you want to smoke. you smoke till die also ur businese. -
thats why i said its the job of the gov to provide quality education to as many people as possible.Originally posted by goh meng seng:Dear vito corleone,
You were hoping that a casino could do wealth re-distribution, I am plainly stating that according to research, it doesn't work that way. It is the other way round. You have taxes from casino so govt is ready to lower taxes for those rich people.
No matter how you look at it, a society is made up of different spectrum of people. You will always have lowly educated people around and that's a fact that we must accept.
Goh Meng Seng -
Who don't know that casino cannot advertise to solicit for gamblers? Very Funny, you thought that you are the only one know that casinos cannot be advertised.Originally posted by stupidissmart:They r not even allowed to advertise. -
Obviously casino proponents have the idea of marketing and convincing the public of an integrated resort (which is no different from a smokescreen to shield the gambling operators running their core gambling businesses). That's so untruthful and reveals their very dishonest business practices with gimmicks to sweeten and hoodwink the public.
I have no doubt an integrated resort without a casino can still create jobs for
the poor and increase income. Why have a huge casino and let gambling
addiction, prostitution, crime, etc flourish when we already have many legal
gambling outlets (says the PM)?
Companies do not want to develop an integrated resort without a casino. Why ? Because they can build it anywhere they want if it is just an integrated resort. All countries r begging companies to come over to their countries to build an integrated resort. Why build it in singapore ? They prefer to build it in places like china, macau, hong kong, thailand or malaysia isn't it ? Why waste investment in a place like singapore where the land is more expensive and the appeal to tourists is lesser. Have we not appeal to disney to set up a theme park here ? They prefer hong kong in the end.
That it is being pushed ahead at racing speed (and they're considering having 2-3 casinos) to make a quick buck to improve bottomlines giving lip service and brushing aside the social ills and costs makes it even more urgent for the opponents and the people of Singapore to reject the concept and proposals that primarily serves the (pro)gamblers and not the people of Singapore.
What the country needs and Singaporeans want is not an integrated casino resort than bans them (or imposes hefty entry charges - being a form of tax) but a truly, family-oriented recreational and entertainment integrated resort....without any mega gambling activities and companies operating it.
We still get to create jobs, more tourist numbers, higher government collections and every Singaporean to enjoy it than banned. We get all the good things and not subject to anyone (even tourists) risks that destroy lives that no one (not even the PM) will take responsibility.
And yes, from CNA debate last night, the money-minded policy-makers are considering having more than one casino, even 2-5 in the years to come. -
Please duo duo support if u haven't.
And sign the petition against building casino in singapore.
http://www.facts.com.sg/ -
As said before, u can't attract anyone to build an integrated resort in singapore. But nevertheless u just totaly ignore tat point.
What the country needs and Singaporeans want is not an integrated casino resort than bans them (or imposes hefty entry charges - being a form of tax) but a truly, family-oriented recreational and entertainment integrated resort....without any mega gambling activities and companies operating it.
We still get to create jobs, more tourist numbers, higher government collections and every Singaporean to enjoy it than banned. We get all the good things and not subject to anyone (even tourists) risks that destroy lives that no one (not even the PM) will take responsibility. -
Doesn't that tell us that an integrated resort is just a smokescreen by
As said before, u can't attract anyone to build an integrated resort in singapore. But nevertheless u just totaly ignore tat point.
casino proponents?
Count yourself how many of my points have you ignored?
To the casino/gambler proponent, he/she wants a casino to gamble, not an integrated resort (which is suggested to make the casino idea look good).
To the non-casino opponent, he/she wants an integrated resort, not a casino at all.
To say we can't attract anyone to build an integrated resort in singapore is
superficial and just shooting your own foot. -
Am not sure any amt of debating wld help.
The casino WILL be built....anyone wanna BET?!
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Perhaps the garment shd build it themselves...then distribute all profits to the citizens!
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Doesn't that tell us that an integrated resort is just a smokescreen by
Don't worry. They will build an integrated resort because it can attract more people in. More people in means more people will go to the casino and thus more profit.
casino proponents? -
Why are they not-correlated...pls dont let me insult yr intellligence ie if there is any left...SIN government is running out of ideas to run the country...mfg is out..retail is dying out....tourism...forget it...wat is left...lifescience...wait long long...Originally posted by stupidissmart:U r not happy with the gov ? Fine. U r not happy with their salary ? Fine. U r not happy about their pro-foreigner policies ? Fine. But casino r not these issues and we shouldn't lump them together.
Tell me how cld they sunstained their salaries, pay FTs excessive salary...casino of course...
Look, Mainland chinese spend USD 72 billions on gambling last year..ie out of china..where do they spend the money....u tell me..
So Singapore will have the casino irregardless how Singaporeans feel because we need the money..it is just pure economic sense..so why blame it on Singaporeans maturity to have or not to have the casino. Just say we need the casino because we need the money to substain us for the x years. But of course, u will nvr get the truth outta gahment.
dont be a typical "frog-in-the-well" tat has not seen the world...n say tat casino issue is explicitly for casino sake...u look like one of the ten blind man tat touches certain part of the elephant n then proclaim they know exactly how an elephant looks like...
Ultimately, a political org. strive for hemogamy, full dominance and their survival is the utmost considerations, above all else...need i say more. -
Why are they not-correlated...pls dont let me insult yr intellligence ie if there is any left...SIN government is running out of ideas to run the country...mfg is out..retail is dying out....tourism...forget it...wat is left...lifescience...wait long long...
So wat r u trying to say in the end ? So we should have casino or not casino ? Your point is just trying to say tat singapore government is lousy ! It is out of point !