You want Casino?
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And why the f*ck does everyone think that a casino is the sole remaining way to bring in the dough?Have you no brains..This is the end result when those who are supposed to serve the people, find themselves in a position where their own survival is at stake..Originally posted by mannovo:Why are they not-correlated...pls dont let me insult yr intellligence ie if there is any left...SIN government is running out of ideas to run the country...mfg is out..retail is dying out....tourism...forget it...wat is left...lifescience...wait long long...
Tell me how cld they sunstained their salaries, pay FTs excessive salary...casino of course...
Look, Mainland chinese spend USD 72 billions on gambling last year..ie out of china..where do they spend the money....u tell me..
So Singapore will have the casino irregardless how Singaporeans feel because we need the money..it is just pure economic sense..so why blame it on Singaporeans maturity to have or not to have the casino. Just say we need the casino because we need the money to substain us for the x years. But of course, u will nvr get the truth outta gahment.
dont be a typical "frog-in-the-well" tat has not seen the world...n say tat casino issue is explicitly for casino sake...u look like one of the ten blind man tat touches certain part of the elephant n then proclaim they know exactly how an elephant looks like...
Ultimately, a political org. strive for hemogamy, full dominance and their survival is the utmost considerations, above all else...need i say more. -
Around the world, Singapore has been renowned for famous for being a clean and green garden city as well as being a family place where they feel safe to let their children run around without worries. but after having a casino, their perception may change and they may not even visit singapore again.
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Around the world, Singapore has been renowned for famous for being a clean and green garden city as well as being a family place where they feel safe to let their children run around without worries. but after having a casino, their perception may change and they may not even visit singapore again.
if u talk about tourists, trust me they r not interested in visiting singapore if it is just "clean and green garden" city. When people go for tour, they either go for theme park or scenary or beach. Which is something singapore is not good at now. If u talk about expatriates, they r concerned with safety and cleaniness, however how much will it deteriotes after the casino is open ? They r also complainig singapore is too boring. A casino will make singapore more interesting. -
They'll build any smokescreen to draw the crowds in with the primary objective
macjoe:
Doesn't that tell us that an integrated resort is just a smokescreen by
casino proponents?
stupidissmart:
Don't worry. They will build an integrated resort because it can attract more people in. More people in means more people will go to the casino and thus more profit.
to get them pick up the habit and eventually hooked to gambling at the casino, right? Right! See the angle they're selling.
Funny thing is if the attractive smokescreen (integrated resort) can draw the crowds in, you shouldn't worry if the casino component is left out of the integrated resort idea, right? Right!
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They'll build any smokescreen to draw the crowds in with the primary objective
I am just repharsing in a way u will agree and understand. Anyway it is not as thogh they won't be earning a cent from theme park. If u come in just for the rides, they r happy to provide tat as well.
to get them pick up the habit and eventually hooked to gambling at the casino, right? Right! See the angle they're selling.Funny thing is if the attractive smokescreen (integrated resort) can draw the crowds in, you shouldn't worry if the casino component is left out of the integrated resort idea, right? Right!
And how r u going to find any company to put a resort without a casino in ? For years singapore has asked people to invest such a thing here but no one did. If u want to drone on tis point without giving an answer to the above statement, then it just shows u have nothing to talk about. U might as well find someone to give singapore a billion dollars a year so the gov will not open a casino. -
Look where u r firing..i am saying tat a casino is being pushed thru to sustain gahment hemogamy...tat their political instinct is to serve temself...u nvr read thoroughly n i guess yr brains grows thru yr ass..man...Originally posted by LazerLordz:And why the f*ck does everyone think that a casino is the sole remaining way to bring in the dough?Have you no brains..This is the end result when those who are supposed to serve the people, find themselves in a position where their own survival is at stake..
Great...hv a casino...say it we need it because of the economy...n nothing to do with Singaporeans maturity....looks like u r another fucker like stupidsmart..... -
Outto point yr ass man...nvr seen the world...just a frog in the world...nvr done any business in china, indonesia, vietnam...its a jungle out there...survival of the fittest, man...shld i call u stupid...u come out of the world alone...nothing to do with yr father n mother...really...Originally posted by stupidissmart:So wat r u trying to say in the end ? So we should have casino or not casino ? Your point is just trying to say tat singapore government is lousy ! It is out of point ! -
So u r trying to say gov is lousy and need a casino. Then ? Should we have casino ? U r not answering to the question at all ! U say I am a frog in the well but have I say anything whether u r right or wrong ? I am just trying to tell u, u r out of point. U think the gov is lousy, then don't vote ! SO should we or should we not have a casino ?
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my stand is against the casino but i understand why gahment wants the casino...while u r naive...a fucking cow is a cow....pls....use yr brain...what so outto point...u think we hve chance to vote, either its a walkover, boundaries redrawn, or an extended GRCs...i repeat...gahment shld not put it on Singaporeans maturity to hve or hve not the casino....its already decided...casino is on...because of the many reasons i hve mentioned...while u r blind...a casino is a casino....u one forest n does not realise tat many trees makes a forest...Originally posted by stupidissmart:So u r trying to say gov is lousy and need a casino. Then ? Should we have casino ? U r not answering to the question at all ! U say I am a frog in the well but have I say anything whether u r right or wrong ? I am just trying to tell u, u r out of point. U think the gov is lousy, then don't vote ! SO should we or should we not have a casino ?
Hve u travel..hve u seen business conducted in Indonesia, Philippines, China, Veitnam....dont be a fucking naive Singaporean n talk shit here....u nvr survive...out there...frog.. -
U r freaking ill-informed....shit...only read Straits Times only...u know we lose out to HK for disneyland...Shanghai is also having a Disneyland...can u find a casino in Disneyland...Originally posted by stupidissmart:And how r u going to find any company to put a resort without a casino in ? For years singapore has asked people to invest such a thing here but no one did. If u want to drone on tis point without giving an answer to the above statement, then it just shows u have nothing to talk about. U might as well find someone to give singapore a billion dollars a year so the gov will not open a casino.
Abt the USD72 billion tat mainland chinese spend in gambling...u know where they go...macau, australia, new zealand, las vegas...n most of the pple there r government official...n do u know tat rit now, chinese govt official r not going to Macau cause many plainclothes policeman r there...2 catch tem..so some r going further...Macau business hve drop by half....so do u think mainland chinese will come to Spore...to be caught or extorted by mainland policemen....
Look, in Macau,gambling n massage parlor comes hand in hand...in Genting...there r mainland gals who lose money, sell their body to gamble more...its a vicious circle...do u still maintain yr stand...a casino for casino stand...there are co-rrelated factors as to why gahment wants a casino...
U say have casino...support gahment for casino...blindly..without thinking...who in the right mind will give Singapore a billion dollar a year...dont u know it cost 5 plate of char kway teow per every singaporean to support a minister salary...so to serve the pple or otherwise...u tell me...
Look...dont keep arguing for argument sake...what outto point...what no relevance...our gahment is very smart...much smarter than yr naviety...tell me something new....n see yr smartass for once OK... -
u know we lose out to HK for disneyland...Shanghai is also having a Disneyland...can u find a casino in Disneyland...
do u think we do not wnt disneyland to come over here ? We r also wooing them to come over but they decided other places is better.
In the end u r still droning on the same point. It is just gov bashing.Look, in Macau,gambling n massage parlor comes hand in hand...in Genting...there r mainland gals who lose money, sell their body to gamble more...its a vicious circle...do u still maintain yr stand...a casino for casino stand...there are co-rrelated factors as to why gahment wants a casino...
however some peopel also depend on casino for its livlihood as well. Some people fidn jobs, some hotels have better business, malysia toursim booms and the residents there have a place to go when they r bored. U need to see the cons and pros. -
Our Dear Leader PM Lee Hsien Loong & Chief Justice Yong Pang Howe recently said, times have changed. We now have to be flexible and adjust our way of lives.
Three years ago the 4 mega casino companies namely, Caesars Palace, MGM Grand, Venetian & Wynn Resorts from Las Vegas were invited to Macau to develope 4 integrated resort casinos. They invested in the region of 6-7 billions US Dollars. Their projections were to get their investments back in 3-5 years, but to their surprise they got their investments back in 6 months.
The mainland Chinese wealth and their gambling habits are phenomenal. If we don't seize this opportunity to tap this source of revenue, our neighbours Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia will be more than happy to do so.
Just last week it was reported in the Straits Times that the world's 2nd largest hard disk manufacturer, Maxtor are shifting their operations to China. In the coming months you can expect to read more of such news. We just can't compete with China's cheap labour, land & resources.
Without one or two integrated resorts/casino in S'pore, our tourism arrival will stagnate at its present level of 7-8 million visitors a year. Don't forget these figures include the huge number of foreign workers who arrive to work in S'pore.
Las Vegas 50 years ago was a desert town with a population of 2,000 people. Today it's tourist arrival is in the region of 38 - 40 millions visitors a year and it's the fastest growing city (current population - about 2.5 million) with the lowest crime rates in the US.
S'pore is strategically located to attract gamblers from the region. Also we have the infrastructure, logistics & commuincation to support an international casino operations.
Giving our tourism a boost would also help the growth of our National Airline, SIA which otherwise has also reached its stagnation point.
Instead of worrying about whether casino will be set up or not, I suggest that we should focus our attention on investing our money on Temasek listed companies who are in JV with the mega casino companies bidding for the casino development.
To the successful operators & S'pore it's a sure win-win situation. Gambling taxes in Macau have been levied at 40%, while in S'pore it's only 15%.
S'poreans, you have to try to abstain from gambling in casinos; be it in S'pore or elsewhere.
Every time you make a bet, the house advantage over your bet is about 2.5%.
So for every $100 you bet, like it or not the casino gains $2.50, $1000 > $25, $10,000 > $250, $100,000 > $2500 and so on.
It's a zero sum game and at the end of the day you must loose. -
Are you in the government service? Back up your claims that for years singapore has asked people to invest in an integrated resort here (without a casino) but no one did?
And how r u going to find any company to put a resort without a casino in ? For years singapore has asked people to invest such a thing here but no one did. If u want to drone on tis point without giving an answer to the above statement, then it just shows u have nothing to talk about. U might as well find someone to give singapore a billion dollars a year so the gov will not open a casino.
May I suggest you go read the ST today, Tuesday 8 Mar 05, Page H20:
Fiscal Argument for casino here overplayed?
A MEGA-RESORT could still hit the jackpot in Singapore even if it does not have casino, according to a report from United States investment bank Morgan Stanley.
The report also questions some of the assumptions underlying the arguments
for a gaming palace, including the notion that it would attract large numbers of foreign punters and provide funds to cross-subsidise other attractions.
It conceded that a resort as a whole would boost the economy with an initial start-up investment of 0.9 to 1.9 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP) and the addition of 6,000 to 9,000 jobs.
It also estimated that if the mega-resort is built and Singapore meets its tourist-visit targets, the GDP by 2015 will be 15.4 per cent higher than it was last year. Without the resort, the GDP would grow by just 6.1 per cent.
But whether a casino is crucial to these gains remains questionable.
"The key question is whether the resort and the economy could do just as well without the casino. We think the answer is probably yes." said Morgan Stanley economists Deyi Tan and Daniel Lian in the report.
They also examined the Government's view that revenue from a casino could be used to "cross-subsidise the other non-gaming attractions, which in turn attract the large number of visitors."
Calling this argument "somewhat shaky", the report argued that if the resort's non-gaming components - hotels, convention centres and luxury retail outlets - command a price premium and generate profits, "it detracts from the need for cross-subsidisation to attract tourists".
The Atlantis in Bahamas - a model the Government has cited - is a case in point, the paper said.
Non-gaming revenue accounts for over 70 per cent of total revenue and there does not appear to be any cross-subsidisation for accommodation and food, both of which had sizeable profit margins of 84.2 per cent and 33 per cent respectively in 2003.
As well, the report also questioned whether a Singapore casino would be able to attract the base of foreign tourists it is targeting.
It cited the fragmented Asian market, wth casinos in Genting and Australia relying largely on locals. Even in Las Vegas, in the year ended June 2003, only 9 per cent of casino visitors were foreigners, the paper said.
A casino in Singapore would also face competition from Macau, which opened up its gaming industry to foreign operators in 2002 and enjoys first-mover advantage.
"This suggests to us that Singapore's proposed casino would by itself struggle to attract a critical mass of foreign clientele, thus undermining the economic logic of this project," the paper said.
And Hong Kong has approved to build a bridge to connect Hong Kong with Macau.....NewsRadio 93.8. -
Yes, pple depends on casino 4 livelihood. Yes, i personally does not agree to have a casino in our backyard..but i understand gahment reason for having one...its for their own political dominance, their own survival, n the trush of the argument shld not be whether we Singaporeans are matured to hve or not to hve the casino - period...By all means..hve the casino...say tat we need it because of the economy...BUT u n i will nvr get the truth out as it means tat its a admission of their own failure to lead out of our economic doldrum..tat they r running out of ideas...we r losing steam...commo...we hve "obscene" surpluses during Richard Hu terms...n now deficit..how many deficits can we continue....Originally posted by stupidissmart:Sorry man, its not gahment bashing...wat i said hve an elements of truth..there are alot of pple i respect, LKY, Rajataratnam, Goh Keng Swee etc.
What kind of pple we hve, only scholar types, u know wat they like...can they dance to the tune of wheels n deals of business...remember Suzhou Industrial Park...we r a laughing stock..wat do u drink...a scholar replied...milk...there are a large segment of pte n successful businessman n knows how china works..these valuable resources r not tap into only till the last 2 -3 years...then we hunt in a pack, like the Taiwanese...dont tell me how i know...i am long enough in China to know wats going on..
And it is a "honest mistake" tat they cannot get Disneyland to come to Singapore. Ok, 1st round - HK. Singapore lost...2nd round - Shanghai, Singaproe also lost...n these r scholars..AND U KNOW WAT, Tung Chee Hwa is a dead horse....a leader tat no HK pple respect n now is rumoured to resign.....how good can our scholars be...
however some peopel also depend on casino for its livlihood as well. Some people fidn jobs, some hotels have better business, malysia toursim booms and the residents there have a place to go when they r bored. U need to see the cons and pros.
Let this be a lesson 101 4 u...Money n politics goes together..without money...any political parties will not survive...so a casino is a ATM machine for gahment...as simple as tat....not Singaporeans maturity....
Pls dont teach me to see pros n cons...i hve been to major casinos in Vegas, Macau, Australia, NZ etc......u fail to c my arguments n simply dismissed as gahment bashing...yes, LKY has done a great service to Singapore but the new generation of leaders is a different animal altogether....
Tell me where hve u been...australia, china, indonesia, vietnam, thailand n why r u so naive....a typical Singaporean tat hve not SEEN the world...u believe eveything sucker tat gahment throws at u...ASK Yourself WHY....
U know how casino survives...many mainland chinese gambles there...USD72 billion..wat the fuck...where do u get these kind of money..n where does these monies comes frm, r u naive....its "black" money...man...money laudering etc.....Singapore will die if we hve more pple like u....thinking the world revolved around Singapore....blah..blah...blah...we are no .1 in this n tat...why offend our neighbours unneccessary...Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand -
Hi ppp,Originally posted by poon pee pee:Our Dear Leader PM Lee Hsien Loong & Chief Justice Yong Pang Howe recently said, times have changed. We now have to be flexible and adjust our way of lives.
Three years ago the 4 mega casino companies namely, Caesars Palace, MGM Grand, Venetian & Wynn Resorts from Las Vegas were invited to Macau to develope 4 integrated resort casinos. They invested in the region of 6-7 billions US Dollars. Their projections were to get their investments back in 3-5 years, but to their surprise they got their investments back in 6 months.
The mainland Chinese wealth and their gambling habits are phenomenal. If we don't seize this opportunity to tap this source of revenue, our neighbours Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia will be more than happy to do so.
Just last week it was reported in the Straits Times that the world's 2nd largest hard disk manufacturer, Maxtor are shifting their operations to China. In the coming months you can expect to read more of such news. We just can't compete with China's cheap labour, land & resources.
Without one or two integrated resorts/casino in S'pore, our tourism arrival will stagnate at its present level of 7-8 million visitors a year. Don't forget these figures include the huge number of foreign workers who arrive to work in S'pore.
Las Vegas 50 years ago was a desert town of 2,000 population. Today it's tourist arrival is in the region of 38 - 40 millions visitors a year and it's the fastest growing city (current population - about 2.5 million) with the lowest crime rates in the US.
S'pore is strategically located to attract gamblers from the region. Also we have the infrastructure, logistics & commuincation to support an international casino operations.
Giving our tourism a boost would also help the growth of our National Airline, SIA which otherwise has also reached its stagnation point.
Instead of worrying about whether casino will be set up or not, I suggest that we should focus our attention on investing our money on Temasek listed companies who are in JV with the mega casino companies bidding for the casino development.
To the successful operators & S'pore it's a sure win-win situation. Gambling taxes in Macau has been levied at 40%, while in S'pore it's only 15%.
S'poreans, you have to try to abstain from gambling in casinos; be it in S'pore or elsewhere.
Every time you make a bet, the house advantage over your bet is about 2.5%.
So for every $100 you bet, like it or not the casino gains $2.50, $1000 > $25, $10,000 > $250, $100,000 > $2500 and so on.
It's a zero sum game and at the end of the day you must loose.
Yes, i agree, hve the casino..though i personally do not like it in our backyard...but pls, do not point to Singaporean's maturity as an excuse to hve or not to hve a casino.
Gahment need the money as our economy cannot be substained..mfg is hollowing out, retail is dead.....lifescience is work-in-progress..where does it leads us to...how many Sim Hong Woo do we hve...most scholars are co-opt into gahment...they do not "streetfight", r not "streetsmart", n we tons of minister, mps to "manage" Singapore 4 million..
Yes i know it...chinese mainland spend USD72 billion in gambling last year...
Its a political decision which is a "done deal". So, what gives...just speak the truth tat we need the casino to "pump" up the economy....short n sweet... -
[quote]Originally posted by stupidissmart:
[b]
Wrong posting...tis is to reply to Stupidss.
Sorry man, its not gahment bashing...wat i said hve an elements of truth..there are alot of pple i respect, LKY, Rajataratnam, Goh Keng Swee etc.
What kind of pple we hve, only scholar types, u know wat they like...can they dance to the tune of wheels n deals of business...remember Suzhou Industrial Park...we r a laughing stock..wat do u drink...a scholar replied...milk...there are a large segment of pte n successful businessman n knows how china works..these valuable resources r not tap into only till the last 2 -3 years...then we hunt in a pack, like the Taiwanese...dont tell me how i know...i am long enough in China to know wats going on..
And it is a "honest mistake" tat they cannot get Disneyland to come to Singapore. Ok, 1st round - HK. Singapore lost...2nd round - Shanghai, Singaproe also lost...n these r scholars..AND U KNOW WAT, Tung Chee Hwa is a dead horse....a leader tat no HK pple respect n now is rumoured to resign.....how good can our scholars be... -
Everyone should watch Las Vegas on Monday night on Channel 5.
The possibilities and realities of crime is amazing.
Last evening, a jobless programmer borrowed $20K from a
loan shark and when he evaded him, he was beaten and
his debts doubled to $40K. Fortunately, he met a friend who
saved him. The loan shark shot and injured the casino security but
was subdued fortunately.
I could imagine many loan sharks operating and milking off
desparate punters.
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Bingo! new businesses for them, more crimes, more bankrupts, more houses confiscated by bank, cheaper houses for us to buy!! wooohooo!
cheerios!! -
macjoe,Originally posted by macjoe:Everyone should watch Las Vegas on Monday night on Channel 5.
The possibilities and realities of crime is amazing.
Last evening, a jobless programmer borrowed $20K from a
loan shark and when he evaded him, he was beaten and
his debts doubled to $40K. Fortunately, he met a friend who
saved him. The loan shark shot and injured the casino security but
was subdued fortunately.
I could imagine many loan sharks operating and milking off
desparate punters.
We need casinos to help generate our economy.
I reiterate, S'poreans have to learn the mathematics of casino's house advantage and refrain from casino gambling, be it in S'pore or elsewhere.
If you learn to accept the fact that the end result, you'll definitely loose all your money in casino gambling then that should help.
S'pore is strategically located to attract not only China money, but the Indonesian, Thai, Taiwanese and Malaysian gamblers. And I'm thinking of high-rollers and whales (they play by the millions on each visit). -
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High-rollers usually come in and gamble from $10,000 to $750,000.
A whale can come in and gamble from 1 million to twenty millions Dollars.
Just go and figure out in terms of value, one such punter equals to how many tourists? -
The most important rule of a casino is....
The House will always win...... -
The principal argument against the casino is that the social cost is too high in terms of gambling addiction and consequent impacts on the family and society. The fact is that gambling in various forms already exists in Spore, be it Toto, big sweep, 4D, stock market, etc. It is also impossible to prevent Sporeans from visiting and gambling at casinos elseqhere. It is debatable whether a casino in Spore will make a fundamental difference to our gambling habits.
However, I recall a radio interview with a guy relating their experience with a casino outlet in NZ. IIRC the results are mixed and there is evidently an undesirable social impact on the community. He has advised that we should tread carefully on implementation. Some safeguards will probably be built in, perhaps in the form of an entrance fee or deposit. Question is, is it going to be enough and if these safeguards works well, will it also work against commercial success?
Clearly, the government has no intention of subjecting the issue to a referendum or a vote in parliament with the whip lifted and the money's on the casino going ahead (no pun intended). The opposition parties are going to make this an election issue and the government must think carefully about the political price, particularly should it adversely affect a significant number of the population. -
I'm in doubt that singapore casinos can make good money!!!Originally posted by poon pee pee:High-rollers usually come in and gamble from $10,000 to $750,000.
A whale can come in and gamble from 1 million to twenty millions Dollars.
Just go and figure out in terms of value, one such punter equals to how many tourists?
Why Macau opened up so many casinos out in the blue? Chinese government is even cleverer than singapore governemt. They anticipated , the Chinese government acted fast enough that their own money is not flown out of their country. You think that we can attract many chinese gamblers, Indonesian gamblers, Thailand gamblers and etc? I don't think so..... Casinos services are and will be always better than singapore in elsewhere. I dare to bet with you for this. If I were to be a big gambler, I won't come to singapore. Instead, I will go to Macau!!! You think singapore is safer than Macau in term of security? Chinese government can do this better than singapore government.
We can invite world class casinos to build and operate, Malaysian and Thailand can do likewise.
Don't think that our government are good and smart!!! They are bunches of shits.....
In fact, 30 years ago. I had already wondering why our government did not considering of opening of casinos. It was because of our stubborn LKY; what's the difference of opening way before and now or later?
Our freaking government had been over reacted to the jacking up the land cost too early and unreasonably high; that was why many companies and factories have been pulling out in late eighties and early nineties. The land costs were jacked up unreasonably high was due to the government's wrong prediction on the growth of population in singapore. Todate, we've only 3 millions singaporeans and PR and 1 million foreigners. Most people are squeezed to pigeon holes; there are still plenty of lands available and most warehouses and factories are left vacant for long long...time and you can see them in AMK, Jurong and many industrial parks nowaday.
So...what do you think our government had been doing? -
I'm in doubt that singapore casinos can make good money!!!
the people who sent in the 19 proposal don't have any. They r the one tat sink in the money into tis ventureWhy Macau opened up so many casinos out in the blue? Chinese government is even cleverer than singapore governemt. They anticipated , the Chinese government acted fast enough that their own money is not flown out of their country. You think that we can attract many chinese gamblers, Indonesian gamblers, Thailand gamblers and etc? I don't think so..... Casinos services are and will be always better than singapore in elsewhere. I dare to bet with you for this. If I were to be a big gambler, I won't come to singapore. Instead, I will go to Macau!!! You think singapore is safer than Macau in term of security? Chinese government can do this better than singapore government.
I thougth macau has been a gambling haven when it was controlled by the british then ? How do u know u won't be in singapore when it wasn't even build yet ? Safer ? U thought macau is safe ?We can invite world class casinos to build and operate, Malaysian and Thailand can do likewise.
now they have not. We have the advantage. If we delay later we will lsoe tis advantage
gov bashing... out of point...
Our freaking government had been over reacted to the jacking up the land cost too early and unreasonably high; that was why many companies and factories have been pulling out in late eighties and early nineties. The land costs were jacked up unreasonably high was due to the government's wrong prediction on the growth of population in singapore. Todate, we've only 3 millions singaporeans and PR and 1 million foreigners. Most people are squeezed to pigeon holes; there are still plenty of lands available and most warehouses and factories are left vacant for long long...time and you can see them in AMK, Jurong and many industrial parks nowaday.