A Singapore without Singaporeans
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Liquidate and go to China. If you plan to retire, Hainan or Qingdao are very affordable and lovely places to stay. I prefer Hainan, because it is less than 2 hours flight to HK. Apartments there cost around S$800-1000/ sqm for beachfront (excluding Ah Long Bay).Originally posted by av98m:I have to admit the giving up citizenship and liquidating all assets plan is looking more and more attractive each day. Sell my house plus cpf money and savings will add up to a very substantial retirement fund.
But left one problem, where to retire to? And can get citizenship there or not? Must do more homework.
With a Spore passport, you can get a 6-month multiple entry visa for China. No sweat.
If you want to look for business opportunity, try Shanghai or Beijing as a start because these cities are more foreigner-friendly in terms of facilities and infrastructure.
But keep the bulk of your money in a Hong Kong account because money transfer is not that straightfoward in China. Also, HK does not tax you on interest earned. -
The following Article was taken from ThinkCentre's web site. Does any of the following amke sense? I wonder....
Manpower and Housing policies : Singaporean's triple whammys
(Sg Reveiw)
26 December 2004
Singapore is known to be among the most foreign labour friendly country in the world. The Government's explaination of "strutural unemployment" is baffling. The "asset enhancement" policy which translated into infallable and overinflated land price has effectively kept Singaporeans slogging in Singapore.
Singapore is known to be among the most foreign labour friendly country in the world. The "Foreign Talent" policy is still highly controversial, with the review by 2 highly regarded Nayang Technological University (NTU) Economics Professors, that the policy created more work vacancies for foreigners than Singaporeans.
The study was derived from the Singapore Ministry of Manpower's (MOM) database. The subsequent "rebuttal" by Minister for Manpower, Dr Ng Eng Hen, gave another set of data, which was again controversial, as it considered Permenant Residents (PRs) of the country as "citizens".
While the grammatic emphaisis puts the citizens down as "non-talents" subtly, the Government is adament in pursuing the policy, despite mixed findings, and subsequent poor economic performance,which Singapore has hardly recovered from, since 1997, despite more liberal import of "talents".
The Government's explaination of "strutural unemployment" is baffling, when MOM and MOE set the quotas for various courses in the Polytechnics and Universities. Meaning that manpower resources have been "planned", if not for failure.
Singaporeans now have to compete with foreigners, on almost equal footing, except that the Singaporean male has to serve National Service, and the subsequent 13 years of reservist duties.
Singapore is also noticaby more expensive compared to all neighbouring countries. Hence while earning an almost equal nominal wage, Singaporeans are earning a much lower real wage compared to foreigners.
While Singapore is known and touted to have among the best institutions of education (world class), Singaporeans have been told that they are not as good as those trained overseas. An irony.
While the high profile failures in foreign CEOs in big Singapore companies failed to make an impression in the policy, there have also been many cases of foreigners using fake qualifications and multiple identities to obtain work in Singapore.
The Government Linked and Temasek group of companies' policy of "localisation" also effectively puts the work opportunities created overseas by Singaporeans' CPF and taxes into the hands of foreigners.
Temasek being not required to file reports, makes it impossible to gauge how any benefits or profits from these ventures, which do not provide employment for Singaporeans, broad-based, is being distributed to the citizens.
The most recent case of "localised" DBS-Dao Heng (Hong Kong), where the Hong Konger CEO scrapped safe boxes with valuables in them, have put Singapore in bad light, despite having no Singapore hand in the incident.
The state "subsidised housing" arm, the HDB has just been hived off to Temasek Holdings, for an undisclosed sum. "Subsidised" HDB units which cost S$50,000 per unit to construct, are being sold at S$190,000 and above to citizens. This effectively saps savings and retirement funds.
Singaporeans who find work overseas and wish to let out their units whole, do not get the lease period counted into the occupancy years (a minimum of 5 years occupancy is required to sell your HDB flat).
The "asset enhancement" policy by then Prime Minister Goh, which subsequently translated into infallable and overinflated land price in Singapore was designed to and has effectively kept Singaporeans slogging in Singapore.
The combined policies of localisation, and "asset enhancement" have effectively kept Singaporeans in Singapore, but making it difficult for them to find work at home, through easy (and encouraged) employment of foreigners, through the "foreign talent" policy, to be enhanced by the "S" pass route, which allows foreigners with non-specialised skills to work in Singapore. -
well hate to break it to you but most people go because of the freebies and free tix..if it wasn't free, 99% of the stadium would be empty.Originally posted by lwflee:Actually, maybe. I do not think most people go because they love singapore. Its more like they want to soak up the atmosphere, to feel like they are a part of something. So, yes, i think its a form of mob instinct.
Of course, there are some performers who truly love singapore. Some of them have been volunteering their services for more than a decade. However, the majority of the performers are forced to turn up by their schools and/or CCA. Further, some may volunteer because they have so many frens within for eg. People's Association or Singapore Soka Assosciation. -
yes. It makes sense.Originally posted by ShutterBug:The following Article was taken from ThinkCentre's web site. Does any of the following amke sense? I wonder....
Manpower and Housing policies : Singaporean's triple whammys
(Sg Reveiw)
26 December 2004
Singapore is known to be among the most foreign labour friendly country in ....
....
Like I say, Singapore don't want Singaporeans -
You want to be 100 % safe just lock yourself at home lah.Originally posted by mistyblue:Just don't walk along Geylang, Desker, Joo Chiat, and etc. I can name you many places not to go at night in case you get into trouble with foreigners. Our parks are not safe day or night, reservoirs are not absolutely safe either. Places with night clubs, pubs and other services are not entirely safe either.
Its slowly becoming unsafe nowadays. Don't be misled.
Safety is not really beccause of the government, but the way the government had bent the local people that we dare not break any laws. Its not a real understanding and obeying but a fear put into us of the nasty things that the government can do if we break any law. Besides, I feel safe because I have good neighbours and people around who watch out for me. Not really because of the police. The police shall exists even without the government. Besides the government is too stingy to pay our policemen and all those people in civil defence a little more. No one wants to risk their lives for another lah.
You are safe because of your neighbours ?
If they see crime happening who do they call ?
If there is no govt will there be police ?
Look at the anarchy in Iraq after the fall of the govt.
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Something from my personal experience, how do you change the entrenched mindset of the upper management? The reluctance to upset the boat so as to maintain the status quo which have allowed them their superscale grade pay is something that will be almost impossible to change. It is also this mindset that lead to my disillusionment.
In the Singaporean society, if you do not conform you are thus labelled or branded. What good is such a society in the long run? Yes there is the talk of being open and consultative, but in reality is that actually happening?
Although I do see attributes in what GMS has been saying, is it realistic to expect that his policies will result in any changes to the societal behaviour present in Singapore now? I still recall when I left my old job, there was talk of transforming the management structure to a level playing field, changing from a directive model to that of a consultative model. To me that is all pretty much hot air as such changes are almost impossible to initiate in the prevailing environment that is present in Singapore. -
People say you believe.Originally posted by goh meng seng:A Singapore without Singaporeans, A Nation without Nationhood. That's where we are heading to.
There are people who commented that Singapore is just a "Merchant City and a Hotel" to them. They are in their twenties but they are already planning their exits, migrating to somewhere more comfortable to live in.
They are not entirely "wrong" to think this way. Look at it this way, when you start to see those in the forties, losing jobs and not able to get employed with a decent wage, would you worry for yourself? Worst of all, the govt is seeking to raise the retirement age when it is obvious that those in their forties find it hard to get a job!
It is apparent that for those who have been caught by the "Asset Enhancement Scheme", they will not have enough money for retirement! And all PAP thinks about is whether this group of people would burden their coffers! That's how medisave come about.
Those in their forties and planning for retirement will have no choice but to cash out and retire somewhere. They must face the reality that they have come to the end of their productive life and the state is not going to take care of them. For all the myths they have believed so dearly, democratic socialism or asset enhancement, they have been disillusioned and there isn't going to be enough money for them to retire in Singapore. There will be no farewell party for them when they leave. It would be "good" if they no longer pose a "financial burden" to the govt anymore!
For the twenties they saw what happen to the forties. They will also plan their exit and realize that they would only be "useful" when they are at their peak of productive life cycle. It is no wonder the PAP is beginning to woo at them nowadays. But there are still many migrated out. So the FT policy is in place to fill up the holes left behind. But these FTs may just remain forever Foreign.
When a nation is filled with people, both young and middle aged, thinking about migrating out of the country all the time, there isn't an existence of a Nation in essence anymore. Singapore is just a temporary refuge to their being. And there is no doubt what will happen to these people if there is to be an eminent threat to Singapore as Nation.
Nationhood has not been firmly forged for the past 39 years of nation building. Those national day parades that we have had for the past have lost its appeals when the reality of PAP govt policies set in.
Goh Meng Seng
People say they want to migrate but do they really do so ?
Say say only wat. The grass is always greener on the other side. Many ppl say SG no good but how many ppl actually leave ?
Other country also got unemployment problem wat not just SG.
National parade lost its appeal ? Sure or not ?
Every year national stadium full hse wat.
Nice try lah Caramon. -
Who believes who??????? I only believe in myself and the pains that I am facing now. SucksOriginally posted by crazy monkey:People say you believe.
People say they want to migrate but do they really do so ?
Say say only wat. The grass is always greener on the other side. Many ppl say SG no good but how many ppl actually leave ?
Other country also got unemployment problem wat not just SG.
National parade lost its appeal ? Sure or not ?
Every year national stadium full hse wat.
Nice try lah Caramon. -
see doctor take pain killers.Originally posted by Lowclassman:Who believes who??????? I only believe in myself and the pains that I am facing now. Sucks -
We are living in an Era where some courses in local polys and unis are not relevant to today's economy. there seem to be a mismatch in these courses with the economy.
Futhermore, instead of relying on foreign talents, why not introduced more courses needing these foreign talents' skills instead of getting foreign talents... -
Gee, that's funny. You mean the whole "quitters" issue was just over a handful of people that migrated? Was Goh Chok Tong just trying to fill up the allocated time for his speech?Originally posted by crazy monkey:People say you believe.
People say they want to migrate but do they really do so ?
Say say only wat. The grass is always greener on the other side. Many ppl say SG no good but how many ppl actually leave ?
Other country also got unemployment problem wat not just SG.
National parade lost its appeal ? Sure or not ?
Every year national stadium full hse wat.
Nice try lah Caramon.
Sure, other countries have unemployment, but unlike Singapore, they make sure that no locals can be found to fill a role before approving PR for an overseas applicant.
The irony is that when warning Singaporeans not to move to other countries, the government loves to bring out the old "second-class citizen" bogeyman. Well, what's the difference when Singaporeans are treated as second-class citizens in Singapore anyway? -
I said I want to migrate and I migratedOriginally posted by crazy monkey:People say you believe.
People say they want to migrate but do they really do so ?
Funny, my employment in the greener side is indeed greener than what I would get back in home . My opportunities are vast in my current adopted country.
Say say only wat. The grass is always greener on the other side. Many ppl say SG no good but how many ppl actually leave ?
Other country also got unemployment problem wat not just SG.
If I stayed back in Singapore, I probably will get retrenched at a ripe old age of 40 and expected to do menial jobs .Don't ask me why but alot of people I know are in this situation - bright futures in the past , now extinguished to give way to younger jobless people and cheaper foreigners despite their long work experience. I am not working in macdonalds because my company decides to retrench me on the basis of age.
Let me tell you other countries got unemployment problems but it is because they don't have the local jobs. NOT BECAUSE they have jobs outsourced to foreigners . And as I recall in australia , there are things such as discrimination laws, you cannot sack a person unless you have a VERY good reason to do so.
Probably a part of national day spectators are made out of people like me , we have permanent residency outside but we come back to enjoy a holiday because the strength of our foreign earnt currencies are strong against the SGD hence a greater spending power than local singaporeans.
National parade lost its appeal ? Sure or not ?
Every year national stadium full hse wat.
Nice try lah Caramon. -
Yeah....fimk, you are absolutely right!!! Australians respect human rights. The respectful Gov and the wrokers' union are really taking care of their own people. Unlike F********singapore gov only talk about money and care for their own pockets.Originally posted by fymk:Probably a part of national day spectators are made out of people like me , we have permanent residency outside but we come back to enjoy a holiday because the strength of our foreign earnt currencies are strong against the SGD hence a greater spending power than local singaporeans.
I admired you that you have migrated to Australia. For me,
maybe next life. -
In Australia you will be second class if you are not white.
Anyway going there to work and giving up citizenship/ migrate different lah. -
You talk rubbish!!!Originally posted by crazy monkey:In Australia you will be second class if you are not white.
Anyway going there to work and giving up citizenship/ migrate different lah.
My friends in Australia never want to come back. Lau Goh's daughter in England doesn't want to come back too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -
Fymk got talent thats why Australia want.Originally posted by Lowclassman:Yeah....fimk, you are absolutely right!!! Australians respect human rights. The respectful Gov and the wrokers' union are really taking care of their own people. Unlike F********singapore gov only talk about money and care for their own pockets.
I admired you that you have migrated to Australia. For me, maybe next life.
You ? Migrate to Africa lah. -
We are in a wayang show that has lasted since 1965, and no real professionalism is shown in the laws we promugulate and the legislation we claim to have, in the best interests of our fellow man.I swore to defend the Constitution when I enlisted, and the very next minute, i knew it was another wayang show.You never defend the law of the land, you actually defend the people who wrote the laws.That is not the way.That is blasphemy.
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You condemn me? Me, I am a dip holder if it was not becoz of our poor family, I would have obtained a degree. I can't bear to leave my parent, bro and sisters.Originally posted by crazy monkey:Fymk got talent thats why Australia want.
You ? Migrate to Africa lah.
So you despise me???
How good are you??? -
~double post~
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In Australia , you got money - you're a first class citizen even if you are non white.Originally posted by crazy monkey:In Australia you will be second class if you are not white.
Anyway going there to work and giving up citizenship/ migrate different lah.
John So is the mayor of Melbourne and he is chinese.
Tiffany & co in Australia salesgirls serve me first rather than the ang moh who was there first. My regular coffee place always give me coffee first before the person who ordered prior to me.
Actually if you ever met the second class citizens of australia - usually they are the very poor - doesn't matter if they are white/black/blue/orange whatever. I really pity them because they struggle with life and everything.
Singapore won't even consider me for university because I am not "good" enough. My job in Singapore was just obeying orders - disobey and get scolding as well as hinted threats.
Bearing in mind that I landed in australia with 8k of hard earnt money (which I saved since I started working at 15 years old plus some help from my parents ), I think I did pretty well. In my australian job , sometimes I run my workplace as a repeated replacement for the absent supervisor beccause they think I have potential to go further. My australian bank gave me a mortgage for my apartment without hassle . Australia gave me a scholarship before and now melbourne university offer me a NON-FEE paying degree ( we are talking 6k a year degrees not their 18k a year degree) because they think I got potential . So my question is who is treating me more second class? -
Good for you lor.Originally posted by fymk:In Australia , you got money - you're a first class citizen even if you are non white.
John So is the mayor of Melbourne and he is chinese.
Tiffany & co in Australia salesgirls serve me first rather than the ang moh who was there first. My regular coffee place always give me coffee first before the person who ordered prior to me.
Actually if you ever met the second class citizens of australia - usually they are the very poor - doesn't matter if they are white/black/blue/orange whatever. I really pity them because they struggle with life and everything.
Singapore won't even consider me for university because I am not "good" enough. My job in Singapore was just obeying orders - disobey and get scolding as well as hinted threats.
In my australian job , sometimes I run my workplace as a repeated replacement for the absent supervisor beccause they think I have potential to go further. My australian bank gave me a mortgage for my apartment without hassle . Australia gave me a scholarship before and now melbourne university offer me a NON-FEE paying degree ( we are talking 6k a year degrees not their 18k a year degree) because they think I got potential . So my question is who is treating me more second class?
Did you take up Australian citizenship ?
Me got frens who went to Australia to work / study have bad experiences with racist whites. -
Ang moh leh - they make mistakes - you tell them off - they respect you. That's what I learnt . They make racist remarks about me when I started my job and I laughed at it. They started to think I am ok . Now my colleagues and I are all buddies who hurl the occasional racist remarks at one another as a laugh .Originally posted by crazy monkey:Good for you lor.
Did you take up Australian citizenship ?
Me got frens who went to Australia to work / study have bad experiences with racist whites.
Australian citizenship - I am considering - if I do not return to Singapore for 10 years I will lose my singaporean citizenship. If I become australian now , I lose my Singaporean citizenship. I am just waiting for the dual citizenship to come up now. Be stupid to shut one door at this moment because if I wait , ¸I end up with 2 doors open. I am also waiting for my american green card thing. So if I get my american greencard as well - I will shut one door - no guesses which door that will be. -
Then you are not a migrant wat. Still Singaporean.Originally posted by fymk:Ang moh leh - they make mistakes - you tell them off - they respect you. That's what I learnt . They make racist remarks about me when I started my job and I laughed at it. They started to think I am ok . Now my colleagues and I are all buddies who hurl the occasional racist remarks at one another as a laugh .
Australian citizenship - I am considering - if I do not return to Singapore for 10 years I will lose my singaporean citizenship. If I become australian now , I lose my Singaporean citizenship. I am just waiting for the dual citizenship to come up now. Be stupid to shut one door at this moment because if I wait , ¸I end up with 2 doors open. I am also waiting for my american green card thing. So if I get my american greencard as well - I will shut one door - no guesses which door that will be.
Anyway not everybody make it oversea. For every success story there are other ppl who fared even worse when they left. -
Hey, can you further elaborate on this 10 year rule, this is the 1st time i come across this, whats the definition?Originally posted by fymk:- if I do not return to Singapore for 10 years I will lose my singaporean citizenship. If I become australian now , I lose my Singaporean citizenship.
Many thanks
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What makes you say that? I personally know and have seen a lot of people like me go overseas, and all of them are better off.Originally posted by crazy monkey:Then you are not a migrant wat. Still Singaporean.
Anyway not everybody make it oversea. For every success story there are other ppl who fared even worse when they left.