All is not well in sinkapore .
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As stated earlier, the changes in the vehicle structure recently and the lower COE encourage scraping of cars. Not because of bankrupcies or other reason that you maybe thinking of.Originally posted by Lowclassman:He is not sayng that the raise COE price is good. Don't jump into conclusion like that.
What Caramon meant was the declined in ownership of vehicles had dropped tremendously. The scraping of vehicles were resulted due to many bankruptcies where people failed to sustain their monthly instalment; why scrape??? Cos, who wants to buy their second cars with high COE, and without enforcement of scraping it, how are these poor people going to settle with their outstanding loans? the ball may roll bigger and bigger!!!
Majority of the average income who owns cars were the worst hit.
Many rich people scraped their vehicles too and in exchange for getting new vehicles with lower COE and interest rates; these are common sense!!!
Look around all HDB carparks nowaday; then you will understand why COE biding had been dropping so much. This is one of the major factor.
And in TV News today also reported that vehicles ownerships have been declining too. The gov are not stupid to release more quota of vehicles and to allow decrease of COE price if people are still rich enough to afford.
Although the government had promised to reduce the import tax and others but they(gov) are getting people to pay more in other means. The gov are not that kind to help we the citizens lah...; ultimately, they will suck more blood from us for their own good.
FACT1: Average scrap car a month recently ~ 9000 (Dec04 - 9772, Nov04 - 9330). Average bankruptcies in Singapore a month ~381.
FACT2: Car population
Sept 2004 - 722,175
Oct 2004 - 723,434
Nov 2004 - 725, 760
Dec 2004 - 727, 295
Source: http://www.lta.gov.sg/corp_info/index_corp_facts.htm
So, where is the relation between record number scrap car and bankruptcies? If you own a car and do your sums, you will know very well why it makes sense to scrap the car now. My brother just ordered his new car and his4 years car will be scrap in 2 months when he receive his new car. So does his friend who is ordering his new car and scrapping his 3 years car. So, stop saying the scrapping of cars is due to whatever factors you believe it to be. There are many reasons for people to scrap cars. Bankruptcy may be one. But in this case, it is definately not the main cause of the number of scrap car. In fact, it's impact on the number of scrap car may not be even noticable at all compared with the toal number of scrap car.
Also, I had heard this rumour of dropping population of cars as well from a friend who heard from another friend. But a simple check with LTA (as shown above) shows that the car population is still increasing, though it may be increasing slower than before. And ohh.. if you want to tell me your car park being empty, the car park in my area is still full every night. I live in Woodlands in case you are wondering and I don't think the people here are rich in any way.
The point I am making is that if you want to complain, complain about the right things and don't pull unrelated figures together. Because going by the author's logic, it seems that raising cost is a good thing. If you like, complain about your salary not increasing. I have no problem with that. But please don't complain that the price is not increasing. I hate it when people complain that the housing price is down, car price is down etc. For me a good economy is when all these prices are down while my salary is going up. Not one where salary is going up but cost goes up even faster. Now, which is better, pay go up 2%, inflation 4% or pay stagnent inflation -1%? -
I hate people just base of statistics survey blindly! How ture it is. I never trust Singapore gov statistics survey.Originally posted by Qitai:As stated earlier, the changes in the vehicle structure recently and the lower COE encourage scraping of cars. Not because of bankrupcies or other reason that you maybe thinking of.
FACT1: Average scrap car a month recently ~ 9000 (Dec04 - 9772, Nov04 - 9330). Average bankruptcies in Singapore a month ~381.
FACT2: Car population
Sept 2004 - 722,175
Oct 2004 - 723,434
Nov 2004 - 725, 760
Dec 2004 - 727, 295
Source: http://www.lta.gov.sg/corp_info/index_corp_facts.htm
So, where is the relation between record number scrap car and bankruptcies? If you own a car and do your sums, you will know very well why it makes sense to scrap the car now. My brother just ordered his new car and his4 years car will be scrap in 2 months when he receive his new car. So does his friend who is ordering his new car and scrapping his 3 years car. So, stop saying the scrapping of cars is due to whatever factors you believe it to be. There are many reasons for people to scrap cars. Bankruptcy may be one. But in this case, it is definately not the main cause of the number of scrap car. In fact, it's impact on the number of scrap car may not be even noticable at all compared with the toal number of scrap car.
Also, I had this rumour of dropping population of cars as well from a friend who heard from another friend. But a simple check with LTA (as shown above) shows that the car population is still increasing, though it may be increasing slower than before. And ohh.. if you want to tell me your car park being empty, the car park in my area is still full every night. I live in Woodlands in case you are wondering and I don't think the people here are rich in any way.
The point I am making is that if you want to complain, complain about the right things and don't pull unrealted figures together. Because going by the author's logic, it seems that raising cost is a good thing. If you like, complain about your salary not increasing. I have no problem with that. But please don't complain that the price is not increasing. I hate it when people complain that the housing price is down, car price is down etc. For me a good economy is when all these prices are down while my salary is going up. Not one where salary is going up but cost goes up even faster. Now, which is better, pay go up 2%, inflation 4% or pay stagnent inflation -1%?
Seven hundred thousands are all cars population meh...? lorry, van, motorcycles are cars meh....?
I did not say that bankruptcies were the main factor and it is one of the facts.
The slow increasing of vehicles population shows that our market is bad, real bad. It has not met the expection of growth of vehicles population that were predicted before by the GOv.
Only your carpark is full??? what about other carparks in your area and others.
Before, buying a car you need 30% down payment, now, no need down payment and car dealer gives you cash rebate? Why??? Is this an encouragemnt of our superd Gov.
When and where the f that people complain about housing and car prices are down?
Where on earth that the materialistic prices are down and salaries are going up???? Are you an economist??? You must be nuts.
I hate and hate people just talk nonsense and additional nonsense that I did not mention. -
Price go up people complain.
Price go down people also complain.
People who want to complain will always find reason to complain no matter what. -
The hallmark of a dictatorship is given below:Originally posted by crazy monkey:Price go up people complain.
Price go down people also complain.
People who want to complain will always find reason to complain no matter what.
1. Absolute control of the media
2. Absolute control of the country's wealth & resources
3. Power transfer from father to son (e.g. Kim Jong Il)
4. Power to appoint judiciary and military
5. Country = dictator = party
6. Power to arrest without trial
7. Injection of fear into the population
8. Elimination of all opponents (oppositons) through legal as well as illegal (item 6) means.
9. Believe in elitism and supreme genetics & active engagment in social engineering.
10. Deceive the world that he has populace support (e.g. Saddam Hussien claimed he had 100% votes during his last election)
Sadly, Singapore fits in all of items 1-10. So is Singapore a dictatorship? The supreme leader (aka MM) has camouflaged dictatorship so well that to people outside Singapore, it looks like democracy. Only those who have suffered in Singapore knows the truth. -
Talking to this kind of person is plain time wasting... people like him see things just on face value.. it don't bother them to why the fact it's so LOW...Originally posted by Lowclassman:I hate people just base of statistics survey blindly! How ture it is. I never trust Singapore gov statistics survey.
Seven hundred thousands are all cars population meh...? lorry, van, motorcycles are cars meh....?
I did not say that bankruptcies were the main factor and it is one of the facts.
The slow increasing of vehicles population shows that our market is bad, real bad. It has not met the expection of growth of vehicles population that were predicted before by the GOv.
Only your carpark is full??? what about other carparks in your area and others.
Before, buying a car you need 30% down payment, now, no need down payment and car dealer gives you cash rebate? Why??? Is this an encouragemnt of our superd Gov.
When and where the f that people complain about housing and car prices are down?
Where on earth that the materialistic prices are down and salaries are going up???? Are you an economist??? You must be nuts.
I hate and hate people just talk nonsense and additional nonsense that I did not mention. -
Ya Ya, bad news you believe. Good news you don't believe. Figures that support your case you believe, figures that do not support your case, you do not believe. You think LTA can bluff on number of cars registered har? Economic figures can easily be manipulated, depending on how you do your calculation. But car figures! Last time quote you Japanese Govt. figure, you also don't believe. To you, the world is a big conspiracy.Originally posted by Lowclassman:I hate people just base of statistics survey blindly! How ture it is. I never trust Singapore gov statistics survey.
Seven hundred thousands are all cars population meh...? lorry, van, motorcycles are cars meh....?
I did not say that bankruptcies were the main factor and it is one of the facts.
The slow increasing of vehicles population shows that our market is bad, real bad. It has not met the expection of growth of vehicles population that were predicted before by the GOv.
Only your carpark is full??? what about other carparks in your area and others.
Before, buying a car you need 30% down payment, now, no need down payment and car dealer gives you cash rebate? Why??? Is this an encouragemnt of our superd Gov.
When and where the f that people complain about housing and car prices are down?
Where on earth that the materialistic prices are down and salaries are going up???? Are you an economist??? You must be nuts.
I hate and hate people just talk nonsense and additional nonsense that I did not mention.
The 3% is set base on the expectation of road network growth. Not economic growth. And it was set when COE was introduced years ago. You don't even know what is going on.
When did people complain about drop in prices? Didn't the author just complain about falling COE price here? If he had not include that, I wouldn't have said anything. If he had restrict his comments on how high the pay the ministers are getting, how the opposition are suppress, how the unemployment remains high etc. etc, I would have let him be. I do not have any disagreement with those things. Just don't come around saying that falling COE is not a good sign. It is something positive. And I am still waiting for it to drop below $5,000. -
Do you even know the supply side has increase?Originally posted by caramon:Talking to this kind of person is plain time wasting... people like him see things just on face value.. it don't bother them to why the fact it's so LOW... -
The fact that it drop is because no one bid high high just like last time... why no one bid high was because the future face a lot of uncertainty , thus, no one dare to commit.. there's no permanent jobs anymore..Originally posted by Qitai:Ya Ya, bad news you believe. Good news you don't believe. Figures that support your case you believe, figures that do not support your case, you do not believe. You think LTA can bluff on number of cars registered har? Economic figures can easily be manipulated, depending on how you do your calculation. But car figures! Last time quote you Japanese Govt. figure, you also don't believe. To you, the world is a big conspiracy.
The 3% is set base on the expectation of road network growth. Not economic growth. And it was set when COE was intoduced years ago. You don't even know what is going on.
When did people complain about drop in prices? Didn't the author just complain about falling COE price here? If he had not include that, I wouldn't have said anything. If he had restrict his comments on how high the pay the ministers are getting, how the opposition are suppress, how the unemployment remains high etc. etc, I would have let him be. I do not have any disagreement with those things. Just don't come around saying that falling COE is not a good sign. It is something positive. And I am still waiting for it to drop below $5,000.
They fore-see the situation is getting worse, henze they came out with 0 downpayment for new cars, 10 years loan, and low interest to attract singaporeans to bottom-less pit.. so that statistic remains for others to see..
And it works... because there's people like you... who see things just on face value.. while its good to see COE tumble, we should not be happy, reason being that economy actually nose-dived... -
see my reply to you above..Originally posted by Qitai:Do you even know the supply side has increase? -
Caramon, I fully agree with you!! Talking to him is waste of freaking time. He doesn't understanding the real impact that had caused to we people.Originally posted by caramon:The fact that it drop is because no one bid high high just like last time... why no one bid high was because the future face a lot of uncertainty , thus, no one dare to commit.. there's no permanent jobs anymore..
They fore-see the situation is getting worse, henze they came out with 0 downpayment for new cars, 10 years loan, and low interest to attract singaporeans to bottom-less pit.. so that statistic remains for others to see..
And it works... because there's people like you... who see things just on face value.. while its good to see COE tumble, we should not be happy, reason being that economy actually nose-dived...
Low interest, zero down payment are just a tool to generate more taxes and suck more $$$ from us the fellow citizens in gradual way. -
Originally posted by caramon:
The truth is you are trying to distort the truth.
The hallmark of a dictatorship is given below:
1. Absolute control of the media
2. Absolute control of the country's wealth & resources
3. Power transfer from father to son (e.g. Kim Jong Il)
4. Power to appoint judiciary and military
5. Country = dictator = party
6. Power to arrest without trial
7. Injection of fear into the population
8. Elimination of all opponents (oppositons) through legal as well as illegal (item 6) means.
9. Believe in elitism and supreme genetics & active engagment in social engineering.
10. Deceive the world that he has populace support (e.g. Saddam Hussien claimed he had 100% votes during his last election)
Sadly, Singapore fits in all of items 1-10. So is Singapore a dictatorship? The supreme leader (aka MM) has camouflaged dictatorship so well that to people outside Singapore, it looks like democracy. [b]Only those who have suffered in Singapore knows the truth.
[/b]
Maybe you shd go live in North Korea for a few months to see how a real dictatorship works.
BTW you are great entertainment.
Keep it up !
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For what reason the supply side had increase????Originally posted by Qitai:Do you even know the supply side has increase?
Is just an excuse from the freaking gov.
If in good time, they will sure implement heavy down payments, higher COE, higher taxes and so on..... their excuse will be we must control the growth of vehicles population now.
Time is down, their (gov) reason, oh.. due to our promised to reduce or eventually to scrap COE system, relax COE make car more affordable so more people can afford.
I can bet with you. If time is still good now, do you think that they will release more COE to decrease COE price and also lowering of import taxes??????
Is all up to the mighty power to manipulate!!!!!!! -
Don't compare with Korea. Over in Korea you can plant Ginseng but you cannot plant ginseng in singapore. Simple as that, a tiny singapore to manage.Originally posted by crazy monkey:The truth is you are trying to distort the truth.
Maybe you shd go live in North Korea for a few months to see how a real dictatorship works.
BTW you are great entertainment.
Keep it up ! -
That is how you see it. For me, I rather see it as people are thinking more rationally now on whether they really need a car and if a car is really that "worth it". Of course, uncertainty is part of the consideration. Compare that with the previous case where people will bid $72K for a worthless paper. Does it means those who bid that price are optmistic? I rather think of them being irrationally optimistic rather than just plain optimistic. So, which is better? People getting more cautious versus that irrational believe that prices will always go up and they can spend like there is no tomorrow.Originally posted by caramon:The fact that it drop is because no one bid high high just like last time... why no one bid high was because the future face a lot of uncertainty , thus, no one dare to commit.. there's no permanent jobs anymore..
They fore-see the situation is getting worse, henze they came out with 0 downpayment for new cars, 10 years loan, and low interest to attract singaporeans to bottom-less pit.. so that statistic remains for others to see..
And it works... because there's people like you... who see things just on face value.. while its good to see COE tumble, we should not be happy, reason being that economy actually nose-dived...
This though does not mean that they are expecting things to get worse. It is more like they know it is possible for things to get worse even if they expect things to get better or worse. Thus a cautious attitude. A good sign of people getting more matured about their $$.
As for the economy, I will not try to convince you either way. Since if I can predict the economy, I would have been rich by now. -
Since Caramon tok abt Kim I think he is comparing to North Korea.Originally posted by Lowclassman:Don't compare with Korea. Over in Korea you can plant Ginseng but you cannot plant ginseng in singapore. Simple as that, a tiny singapore to manage.
Or would he prefer the democrazy of Iraq.
Oil is very cheap there.
But i thk he will complain very hot. -
In summary, you belong to the group of people in self - denial mode... you can rebute, but not the fact why COE is LOW.... if people are more matured in handling the money, how the hell do you explain about the high bankruptcy rate ?Originally posted by Qitai:That is how you see it. For me, I rather see it as people are thinking more rationally now on whether they really need a car and if a car is really that "worth it". Of course, uncertainty is part of the consideration. Compare that with the previous case where people will bid $72K for a worthless paper. Does it means those who bid that price are optmistic? I rather think of them being irrationally optimistic rather than just plain optimistic. So, which is better? People getting more cautious versus that irrational believe that prices will always go up and they can spend like there is no tomorrow.
This though does not mean that they are expecting things to get worse. It is more like they know it is possible for things to get worse even if they expect things to get better or worse. Thus a cautious attitude. A good sign of people getting more matured about their $$.
As for the economy, I will not try to convince you either way. Since if I can predict the economy, I would have been rich by now.
You choose to live in denial... FINE.. but please don't argue just for the sake of arguing... as in my first post, only a small minority who flash their high lifestyle, it is often depicted as the lifestyle of the general sinkapore population as a whole... -
Because the scrap car volume is under-estimated earlier and thus the quota has been revised upwards. So, no excuses here. Valid reason I think. Only comment having seen the previous figure and the new figure, the one making last year's prediction is really way off!!Originally posted by Lowclassman:For what reason the supply side had increase????
Is just an excuse from the freaking gov.
If in good time, they will sure implement heavy down payments, higher COE, higher taxes and so on..... their excuse will be we must control the growth of vehicles population now.
Time is down, their (gov) reason, oh.. due to our promised to reduce or eventually to scrap COE system, relax COE make car more affordable so more people can afford.
I can bet with you. If time is still good now, do you think that they will release more COE to decrease COE price and also lowering of import taxes??????
Is all up to the mighty power to manipulate!!!!!!!
As for the rest, I will reserve my comments for now. I am not as negative about the government as you. But there have been times where this government gives Ass reason to justify what they did (E.g. the recent relaxation of rules on singles to purchase all type of flats when it looks to me that they are just trying to pop-up the property market rather than a genuine concern for singles). So, we shall see if they keep their words. -
Its getting out of context... so is singapore under a dictatorship ?Originally posted by crazy monkey:Since Caramon tok abt Kim I think he is comparing to North Korea.
Or would he prefer the democrazy of Iraq.
Oil is very cheap there.
But i thk he will complain very hot. -
This time, you more open with your mind toward what we people are facing now.Originally posted by Qitai:Because the scrap car volume is under-estimated earlier and thus the quota has been revised upwards. So, no excuses here. Valid reason I think. Only comment having seen the previous figure and the new figure, the one making last year's prediction is really way off!!
As for the rest, I will reserve my comments for now. I am not as negative about the government as you. But there have been times where this government gives Ass reason to justify what they did (E.g. the recent relaxation of rules on singles to purchase all type of flats when it looks to me that they are just trying to pop-up the property market rather than a genuine concern for singles). So, we shall see if they keep their words. -
Nope......Originally posted by caramon:Its getting out of context... so is singapore under a dictatorship ?
.... and guess what ... I live in Singapore and know the truth so dun try to con me.... -
so you rebute all the points below? you wanna enlighten me?Originally posted by crazy monkey:Nope......
.... and guess what ... I live in Singapore and know the truth so dun try to con me....
1. Absolute control of the media
2. Absolute control of the country's wealth & resources
3. Power transfer from father to son (e.g. Kim Jong Il)
4. Power to appoint judiciary and military
5. Country = dictator = party
6. Power to arrest without trial
7. Injection of fear into the population
8. Elimination of all opponents (oppositons) through legal as well as illegal (item 6) means.
9. Believe in elitism and supreme genetics & active engagment in social engineering.
10. Deceive the world that he has populace support (e.g. Saddam Hussien claimed he had 100% votes during his last election) -
1 absolute control ? Hw abt the internet.Originally posted by caramon:so you rebute all the points below? you wanna enlighten me?
1. Absolute control of the media
2. Absolute control of the country's wealth & resources
3. Power transfer from father to son (e.g. Kim Jong Il)
4. Power to appoint judiciary and military
5. Country = dictator = party
6. Power to arrest without trial
7. Injection of fear into the population
8. Elimination of all opponents (oppositons) through legal as well as illegal (item 6) means.
9. Believe in elitism and supreme genetics & active engagment in social engineering.
10. Deceive the world that he has populace support (e.g. Saddam Hussien claimed he had 100% votes during his last election)
2 Go look at the listed companies on SGX
3 Goh Cheok Tong is son of LKY ?
thats something new never heard before.
4 what you want then ? NSmen to vote for the chief of army ?
5 Country = people
6 You mean detention without trial ? I dun get your point.
7 Scare of wat ?
8 Someone you know disappear without a trace ? Be careful you can be next.
9 No degree cannot have children ?
10 Last election on got 70 % wat.
BTW i think you copy this from somewhere else. Can be a bit oeiginal and come up with your own points or not.
Put in more effort lah, learn from SBSK. -
Relax people... don't need to get so uptight... it's just a discussion.
Well, save some money; go and migrate.
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The causes of the bankruptcies occurs BEFORE the event actually occur. Banks don't make a person bankrupt the moment he does not pay. It takes a while when all alternatives has been explored before a person is forced to declare bankruptcy. Those who survived the losses learned from it. They got more matured about $$ NOW, but wasn't as matured about $$ PREVIOUSLY.Originally posted by caramon:In summary, you belong to the group of people in self - denial mode... you can rebute, but not the fact why COE is LOW.... if people are more matured in handling the money, how the hell do you explain about the high bankruptcy rate ?
You choose to live in denial... FINE.. but please don't argue just for the sake of arguing... as in my first post, only a small minority who flash their high lifestyle, it is often depicted as the lifestyle of the general sinkapore population as a whole...
And if you want to give me advise, let me advise you not to complain for the sake of complaining too. If you have problems in life, solve it! Complaining will not help you. Is your life really that bad that you have so many grouses? -
I like it how caramon always say someone is in denial when they don't agree with his point of view.