Foreigners welcomed to take Citizenshit
-
I hold great repect for the former PM, but abtract from 14 Feb ST smells badly of a poorly executed pre-election marketing BS. I sure he knows how little PR/foreigners/expat value this membership.
What value is it worth for 2 yrs of one's life with chance of drowning by your own army instructors ? Do NS ? Yeah right.
This Republic is still effectively a pro-western colony designed specifically as a stepping-stone for Asian immigrats.
ST 14 Feb 2005
Mr Goh said: "It is better when you can identify them when they are young, bring them to our schools, absorb them, make them feel they are Singaporeans and make them Singaporeans.
"They should, in time to come, take on Singapore citizenship, do national service and become in their case first generation immigrants who become Singaporeans" -
I agree that priority of our government has gone awry. To them, foreigners seem to be more important with reasoning like they will create jobs. It is as if the locals will not create jobs.
Its top priority should be to treasure the citizens as assets not quitters or artful statistical or rhetorical denial so that when the citizens can do well they will automatically treat the foreigners with due respect.
How about heeding the citizens' call not to increase the high costs further with more increases. How about giving more considerations to citizens' plights in education, jobs and give them a helping hand in coping high medical and retirement expenses and all aspects of life or works.
Local businesses are suffering from high costs as posted. Many are on the verge of closing or bankruptcy much as the government tries to gross over problems with datas and statistics. Many people are out of works or jobs. Yet in regard to all these problems all is a big silence or continuing denial as if they don't exist.
Try to show concern for citizens' plight and treasure own citizens as assets first before calling on people to love foreigners.
-
It's funny that while most of the posters here are descended from immigrants themselves, they find the idea of 'Singaporeanising' foreigners distasteful. Sort of how white Americans and Australians being immigrants themselves protest about the new influx of immigrants ftom Asia, and carry out racist attacks on Asians.
-
The criteria for those Foreigners who come here with their degrees and wealth and what not are the ones that the garmen wants to attract.
Seriously if I was a foreigner bestowed with all these things, wouldn't I rather go where ever it benefits me greatly and leave when it does not? Why in the world would I want go uproot myself from my native country & permanently plant my family here, educate my children here and let them go thru national service and get a citizenship? If I was so good and so rich it's no big deal citizenship or not.
Anyway it is very hard for a foreigner to even think to uproot himself. The only way they are willing to leave their country is either they being brutally persecuted/supressed or civil war.
Mebbe if China invades taiwan we will see an influx lah. -
To me this is more evidence of complacency of Singaporeans too lazy to stand up and fight for their country. They think that as a First World country we have arrived; that there's no need to improve ourselves
They're scared that they will lose their jobs to foreigners who work harder and for less. Just like how we, the Japanese, Taiwanese and Koreans in the 60s-70s stole the jobs of those fat lazy American and European slobs who demanded social welfare and time off by running roughshod over them with our dilligence and Asian work ethics.
Most of the whiners here just criticise the policy of bringing in foreign talent without proposing solutions. Well guess what, if not for the selfishness of the older generations to reproduce in the 80s and 90s and the government's absurd population control policies, we would not have to resort to these measures. We would have had a population of 10 million (1965 estimates) had the 'Stop at two' policy not been put in place. 'We can make our 4 million Singaporeans worth their 1 billion foreigners' some say. But raw numbers still count. They have a virtually unlimitted resource of labour to draw on; that alone would make their professional workers cost less to hire. Even if the whole of Sinapore recieved tiertiary education, we will not be able to compete.
Don't get me wrong. I detest those foreign types such as wuya and study mamas that use Singapore as a springboard to get to the USA and Australia. Likewise I feel that the government should stop spending so much on giving scholarships to ASEAN and China students (educating the next generation of economic competitors- what a joke), and use the money to support our local students instead. But the fact remains that if we do not inject fresh blood into the aging population of Singapore we will be overwhelmed economically by China or, even worse, Malaysia within the next twenty years.
Even if we lose jobs now by bringing in immigrants and naturalising them as citizens, we will still lose out in the future if we adopt a xenophobic attitude towards immigration. Outsourcing wil still destroy us, as it will the West and Japan. Better some factory workers in Jurong lose their jobs now to Chinamen who will be absorbed into our society eventually then see our entire industrial infrastructure collapse before armies of cheap Indian labour.
Better that we bleed now than haemorrage later.
I disagee with the accusations that foreigners and PRs will flee rather then serve NS. You must realise that this is true for only the first generation of foreigners. Their children will grow up here among Singaporeans, and grow attached to this land of ours. When their parents tell them to uproot and move to USA when they are 18, do you think that they will be happy? There is a high possibility that the answer is yes, and most will leave. Too bad about them; we have wasted our resources on these si gi ngiah. But those that stay, they will teach the values of loyalty and love for our country to their gi ngiah. And it will be passed down to their gi nigah's gi ngiah.
Most people do not see this. We Singaporeans are good at looking at the short term and not the long term. This led the PAP to commit mistakes like the disaster at Suzhou (complacency- we were naive, not prepared to deal with the Chinamen's dirty tatics) and the population control policy (although this is debatable- it happens in all 1st World countries.) This process will be long and painful. It will take several generations. But when we suceed, we will have Singaporeans worth more than those ancient relics in the PAP and those spineless traitors in the Opposition. They will contribute to our economy more than a particular mad doctor of psychology and a bankrupt Indian lawyer ever will. They will train alongside our children in the SAF, and if neccessary die alongside in wartime.
Besides, I don't see much difference between the foreign talent running away than the complainers here who have threatened so often to migrate. At least the foreigners have a valid reason to run.
Singapore's PAP government does not = Singapore, despite what the SDP wants us to believe. Most of us will not run, even though the system disgusts us. We will stay, and force it to change over time. We will turn Singapore into a paradise- and we will laugh at the traitors who turned their backs on us as their havens in Australia and America turn into Third World nations.
Singaporeans are capable of great things if they apply themselves. Too bad we're led by the PAP (which although proved itself in the past is unsuited for the challenge ahead) and deceived by those clowns in the Opposition. Unlike these pessimists, I have no doubt that the Kiasu spirit of the Singaporean worker and student will be enough to burn the Chinamen. If they want our jobs, they will have to fight us for them.
Although I have no love for the PAP, I applaud Lau Goh's statement. We should have started doing this long ago. -
I welcome foreigners to take up singaporean citizenship. That way , they are in the same predicament as Singaporeans.Originally posted by Gun:I hold great repect for the former PM, but abtract from 14 Feb ST smells badly of a poorly executed pre-election marketing BS. I sure he knows how little PR/foreigners/expat value this membership.
What value is it worth for 2 yrs of one's life with chance of drowning by your own army instructors ? Do NS ? Yeah right.
This Republic is still effectively a pro-western colony designed specifically as a stepping-stone for Asian immigrats.
ST 14 Feb 2005 -
a wise observation and very well said indeed!Originally posted by Typhoon:It's funny that while most of the posters here are descended from immigrants themselves, they find the idea of 'Singaporeanising' foreigners distasteful. Sort of how white Americans and Australians being immigrants themselves protest about the new influx of immigrants ftom Asia, and carry out racist attacks on Asians. -
Thats the thing you see it doesn't make sense for foreigners to take up our citizenship and they know it is a trap.Originally posted by fymk:I welcome foreigners to take up singaporean citizenship. That way , they are in the same predicament as Singaporeans.
To give an example I ever asked 2 myanmmar brothers working quite high level jobs and earning quite good money here if they would consider citizenship in singapore citing a clean government and safe environment and fair system as compared to the military junta in myanmmar to my surprise they said no.
The reason why they leave their country to work overseas is because they either cannot get a job back home because of too much competition or they want to earn more money, the whole thing centers around making money and sending it home but that is not enough to make them want to leave their country for good.
They come here to work is because our money is big if they earn here and send back after conversion, like our ancestors who came to S.E.A to work save money, send back and maybe oneday become wealthy landowner oneday and nothing has changed even today. If they become our citizens they are equal on par with us and share the same problems that we face here, that incentive as a well paid foreigner status no longer exists for them so why would they take up a citizenship?
Another reason why other foreigners will not willing to take up citizenship is because their countries back home in india and china are booming, so they come here use our educational system get our scholarships get the advantage, get the experience and go back eventually they only interested in using singapore as a springboard for their ambitions.
To get a foreigner to recognize singapore as his new home will take long time about 3-4 generations but even that is also uncertain, look at vietnam how many thousands fled when saigon fell and look and how many thousands have come back today armed with experience, skills and capital to take advantage of new opportunities. The same we see in afganistan today many thousands who fled are choosing to going back today post taliban.
The government is wasting time and resources pinning hopes on foreigners who have no interest to stay other than to stay and make money. -
Of all the reasons deployed in this post, this paragraph has single-handedly destroy the very objective of supporting its original intend.Originally posted by Typhoon:Besides, I don't see much difference between the foreign talent running away than the complainers here who have threatened so often to migrate. At least the foreigners have a valid reason to run.
So whatever happened to SM's statement about welcoming them and encouraging their sons or grandsons to commit to NS duty ?
This issue ain't new story. It had been debated for serveral yrs already since mass immigration from HKers prior to the colony's return to PRC in 97. S'pore gov welcomed the PR applicants with open arms then.
Do u know what happened later ? -
Originally posted by fymk:I welcome foreigners to take up singaporean citizenship. That way , they are in the same predicament as Singaporeans.
Define "predicament" within your above context. -
Question 1:Originally posted by Typhoon:It's funny that while most of the posters here are descended from immigrants themselves, they find the idea of 'Singaporeanising' foreigners distasteful. Sort of how white Americans and Australians being immigrants themselves protest about the new influx of immigrants ftom Asia, and carry out racist attacks on Asians.
Has there been ANY report of immigrants being (physically) attacked by Singaporeans ?
Question 2:
Where within this thread was any remark, directly or indirectly, state that 'Singaporeanising' foreigners is distasteful ?
Question 3:
Can this poster share his/her own personal encounters, learn of ANY foreigners or PRs preparing to take on Citizenship and the liability of NS ? -
Being a foreign talent favoured over locals in the job market- that is a predicament for Singaporeans.Originally posted by Gun:
Define "predicament" within your above context. -
Originally posted by fymk:Being a foreign talent favoured over locals in the job market- that is a predicament for Singaporeans.
haha... kinda like reverse psychology from the perspective of a non-Singaporeans here.
Everyone knows PRs/FT are here for the same reason:
$SPG Cash is king while Citizenshi-t .... is....oh well... -
Who is the non singaporean here? I have a pink singaporean ic .Originally posted by Gun:
haha... kinda like reverse psychology from the perspective of a non-Singaporeans here.
Everyone knows PRs/FT are here for the same reason:
$SPG Cash is king while Citizenshi-t .... is....oh well...
I still remember my reasons for going overseas to work and stay - learn from foreign talent policy - be a foreign talent. Local no good. Foreign good. -
I hold a pink ic.
My deaprtment section has 20 ppl. 8 are malaysians and have obtained PR using their salary pay slip { HR disallowed, but they still go ahead and ICA approved of their PR status }. 2 are indonesians. While the rest of us are Singaporeans.
6 of the malaysians have all bought at least a terrace in JB and own a car in malaysia. Out of the 6 Malaysians, only 2 stayed in rental flats in Singapore and the 4 travelled to and fro the causeway everyday { meaning their family is in JB }.
I, still staying in a 2 rm flat and still paying off the HDB loan after working for 5 years and still servicing my study loan when I went studying in Australia.
I wonder when can i at least own something....sigh...
Especially the 10 yrs ownership cars , 99 yrs HDB pigeons, .....
high cost utilities bills buy 3 sen riggit sell u 3.44 SGD {If my data is correct }.....increasing petrol cost, electricity, waterborne tax, GST tax, increasing transport cost {SMRT} always saying not making $$$...
and so many things...etc -
We should not allow those stupid bangali to come in. Not only they steal our jobs, they have questionable moral standards, liking to molest and rape our women folk and try to under cut us in IT sector jobs
my poor darling was rejected at so many films because of them idiots -
if u cant beat them, join themOriginally posted by fymk:Being a foreign talent favoured over locals in the job market- that is a predicament for Singaporeans.
-
Already within the foreign talent job market of Australia...Originally posted by I-like-flings(m):if u cant beat them, join them -
Of all the reasons deployed in this post, this paragraph has single-handedly destroy the very objective of supporting its original intend.
The point that I am trying to make is that while we make noise about the foreigners running away, Singaporeans themselves are deserting this country in large numbers as well. So who's worse? Someone who runs from someone else's country or someone who runs from his own country?
I don't see how it contradicts anything I have said so far. I didn't deny in my post that some foreigners will run. I did point out that even if most do run, we will still be left with some, even if this figure is less than 1%. And this 1% will be able to increase itself exponentially.Do u know what happened later ?
Enlighten us,if you will. And provide some evidence as well.Question 1:
Fortunately, we haven't reached that stage yet. But it could just be due to the temprement of Singaporeans and our culture. In Japan, racism against inmmigrants (and non-Japanese) is a very real fact of life there, even if it is not expressed in overtly violent behaviour.
Has there been ANY report of immigrants being (physically) attacked by Singaporeans ?
If the situation is not rectified immediately the resentment of Singaporeans towards foreigners and PRs who exploit their status will continue to increase until it reaches boiling point. The government should start revising its image of what qualities the potential Singaporean immigrant should possess instead of his qualifications. Giving PRship to every Tom Dick and Harry with a PhD and expending resources on these parasites should not happen, not when there are people who are supposedly "less qualified and skilled" (by the governement's definition) who would bring their families to this country, are willing to work hard and make themselves part of this nation. Not every smart person wants Singapore to do well. Its time the government realises this.
A good post from another discussion board which shows why we must be more selective in granting citizenship:Which one is more beneficial to Singapore?
1) A skilled Indian National Construction Worker, earning S$1,300 pm basic, having worked in Singapore for 10 years, decided to apply for citizenship and is strongly supported by his employer.
Pro:
- After 10 years here, he felt that his family had a better chance here and mor eopportunities for a better life.
- He had the skills in an industry where no Singaporeans will accept such low salary in a dirty, demanding and dangerous trade.
- Therefore, he is not competing directly with SIngaporeans but in fact fitted in nicely in Singapore construction industry.
Con:
- He has a lowly education.
- His family maybe a social welfare dependents.
2) A 20-something CHinese National, with a MBA and a few years working experience decided to apply for citizenship.
Pro:
- A Foreign Talent and will build-up our "CHinese Stockpile".
- No large family due to China one-child family policy.
- Willing to accept S$2,500 in our finance and banking industry.
Con:
- Singapore is a conveniently stepping stone to migrate to AUstralis, New Zealand, Canada, USA and Europe.
- Citizenship is a convenience for employment but will most likely returned to China after making their fortune here.
- Competing with, and undercutting salary expectation of, Singaporeans in the few jobs available in the banking and finance industry.
Which one is more suitable for SIngapore?
- A 10-year skilled veteran, much sought by his employer, that is needed in our construction industry or
- A Chinese National with no special skill but merely because he is CHinese and degree holder; and fit well into our profile of "Foreign Talent"?Question 2:
"This Republic is still effectively a pro-western colony designed specifically as a stepping-stone for Asian immigrats."
Where within this thread was any remark, directly or indirectly, state that 'Singaporeanising' foreigners is distasteful ?Question 3:
I haven't had any, but 6500 of them in 2003 thought it was worth it.
Can this poster share his/her own personal encounters, learn of ANY foreigners or PRs preparing to take on Citizenship and the liability of NS ?
I'm a pink IC holder too, and I don't see it as a predicament. Even if our situation is bad I see citizenship as an oppurtunity for us to change what's wrong with the system through our largely useless votes.
I welcome foreigners to take up singaporean citizenship. That way , they are in the same predicament as Singaporeans.
Well, at least you can take solace in the fact that you'll be able to withdraw your paltry CPF savings when you're an old toothless man of 62 (or 65 if LKY gets his way) while theirs will disappear in whatever god forsaken business venture of Temasek Holdings.
6 of the malaysians have all bought at least a terrace in JB and own a car in malaysia. Out of the 6 Malaysians, only 2 stayed in rental flats in Singapore and the 4 travelled to and fro the causeway everyday { meaning their family is in JB }. -
Singaporeans are deserting the country in droves because they know Singapore has given them the impresssion that she rather take care of the elites and the foreigners. That's the problem. Since the foreign talent policy was in place - more and more are getting disgruntled. Just imagine being told that if you grow old , you are entitled to be entrenched despite years of dedication and then the government tells you to work for "less" when your financial committments demand more. Then your job is given to a younger foreigner .
Well we can complain and whine that Singaporeans are leaving even the government , once called migrating Singaporeans "quitters". My opinion is get to the root of the problem , find out why Singaporeans want to leave. My parents were once arden supporters of Singapore but after the FT policy was in place, my dad said run. I just asked "how far". My former workplace also gave me the impression they rather take care of foreigners than locals. That is my main reason for leaving Singapore. If foreign talents can be a leech in the system and suck Singapore dry, I might as well learn from them and go to another country to do the same. However my host country is formidable , it has given me many opportunities and career moves that I had not anticipated , it has taken care of me than I ever hoped for. What I will do in kine is to serve my host country faithfully and wait for dual citizenship policy to come into effect. -
<
quote:
Mr Goh said: "It is better when you can identify them when they are young, bring them to our schools, absorb them, make them feel they are Singaporeans and make them Singaporeans.
"They should, in time to come, take on Singapore citizenship, do national service and become in their case first generation immigrants who become Singaporeans";>>
SM Goh is really too optimistic. Even our local boys hate NS and he expects foreigners to want to serve it. Maybe he said that for want of better things to say. -
I just heard the off-the-cuff comments or feedbacks from Chinese students studying in Singapore when interviewed by 958 radio. Given the choice these students now studying in Singapore say that they would prefer to study in US, or UK universities. They did not say that they are happy in taking up residence or citizenship here but being polite they say that they find the condition here good.Originally posted by pearlie27:<
quote:
Mr Goh said: "It is better when you can identify them when they are young, bring them to our schools, absorb them, make them feel they are Singaporeans and make them Singaporeans.
"They should, in time to come, take on Singapore citizenship, do national service and become in their case first generation immigrants who become Singaporeans";>>
SM Goh is really too optimistic. Even our local boys hate NS and he expects foreigners to want to serve it. Maybe he said that for want of better things to say.
SM Goh should try to understand these feedbacks, which clearly show that the government's pro-foreign policy is too optimistic and may not work while continuing to work against the local citizens who have put up years of sacrifice to allow government to build surpluses and claim success.
Government must: "ying sui sei yan". How is it going to do anything good for foreigners if in their views we are just their convenient stepping stone. Now back to the topic - what changes or change of mindset for Singapore? -
When the government cant even feed well their citizens n yet bring in more foreigners to share their "rice bowl",of coz racism n detest of foreigners will occur from the local ppl.You go everywhere is the same,with our F**k UP government,this problem will go even worse!Originally posted by Typhoon:It's funny that while most of the posters here are descended from immigrants themselves, they find the idea of 'Singaporeanising' foreigners distasteful. Sort of how white Americans and Australians being immigrants themselves protest about the new influx of immigrants ftom Asia, and carry out racist attacks on Asians. -
Well said,i totally agree with u.Furthermore,Singapore government is famous for their stingy n dictatorial ruling style.Plus Singapore is small country n our economy competitiveness have obviously going down for the past 10 years.If compare to the U.S n Australia,which are big countries n their government is not as dictatorial as us n full of natural resources,who the hell want to migrate to Singapore?Even if they do,they probably treat it as a springboard to migrate to other countries which are much better than Singapore.In term of democracy,i think even Malaysia did better than us n they have more opposition parties in their parliament.Originally posted by KumSioJui:Thats the thing you see it doesn't make sense for foreigners to take up our citizenship and they know it is a trap.
To give an example I ever asked 2 myanmmar brothers working quite high level jobs and earning quite good money here if they would consider citizenship in singapore citing a clean government and safe environment and fair system as compared to the military junta in myanmmar to my surprise they said no.
The reason why they leave their country to work overseas is because they either cannot get a job back home because of too much competition or they want to earn more money, the whole thing centers around making money and sending it home but that is not enough to make them want to leave their country for good.
They come here to work is because our money is big if they earn here and send back after conversion, like our ancestors who came to S.E.A to work save money, send back and maybe oneday become wealthy landowner oneday and nothing has changed even today. If they become our citizens they are equal on par with us and share the same problems that we face here, that incentive as a well paid foreigner status no longer exists for them so why would they take up a citizenship?
Another reason why other foreigners will not willing to take up citizenship is because their countries back home in india and china are booming, so they come here use our educational system get our scholarships get the advantage, get the experience and go back eventually they only interested in using singapore as a springboard for their ambitions.
To get a foreigner to recognize singapore as his new home will take long time about 3-4 generations but even that is also uncertain, look at vietnam how many thousands fled when saigon fell and look and how many thousands have come back today armed with experience, skills and capital to take advantage of new opportunities. The same we see in afganistan today many thousands who fled are choosing to going back today post taliban.
The government is wasting time and resources pinning hopes on foreigners who have no interest to stay other than to stay and make money. -
Lou Goh always talk bullsh*t one lar,no need to bother about him.Originally posted by Gun:I hold great repect for the former PM, but abtract from 14 Feb ST smells badly of a poorly executed pre-election marketing BS. I sure he knows how little PR/foreigners/expat value this membership.
What value is it worth for 2 yrs of one's life with chance of drowning by your own army instructors ? Do NS ? Yeah right.
This Republic is still effectively a pro-western colony designed specifically as a stepping-stone for Asian immigrats.
ST 14 Feb 2005