Foreigners welcomed to take Citizenshit
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yin shui si yuan*Originally posted by robertteh:Government must: "ying sui sei yan". How is it going to do anything good for foreigners if in their views we are just their convenient stepping stone. Now back to the topic - what changes or change of mindset for Singapore?
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Its more like "yi xiang qing yuan" to me
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Well, if they don't review their policy, they will continue to lose their local talents.Originally posted by robertteh:I just heard the off-the-cuff comments or feedbacks from Chinese students studying in Singapore when interviewed by 958 radio. Given the choice these students now studying in Singapore say that they would prefer to study in US, or UK universities. They did not say that they are happy in taking up residence or citizenship here but being polite they say that they find the condition here good.
SM Goh should try to understand these feedbacks, which clearly show that the government's pro-foreign policy is too optimistic and may not work while continuing to work against the local citizens who have put up years of sacrifice to allow government to build surpluses and claim success.
Government must: "ying sui sei yan". How is it going to do anything good for foreigners if in their views we are just their convenient stepping stone. Now back to the topic - what changes or change of mindset for Singapore? -
Er, "yin shui si yuan" or "think of the source when one drinks the water". Simple? Where is the source? Who drink the water? HeheOriginally posted by vito_corleone:yin shui si yuan* -
Mutual affection ? More than "lou tiow chang tan" or "ter chun chin cher".Originally posted by thedead:Its more like "yi xiang qing yuan" to me -
Actually "local talent" might be a misnomer of sort to our rulers. How can there be any local talents when the only talents know to them have been a few top echelons or straight "A" graders.Originally posted by pearlie27:Well, if they don't review their policy, they will continue to lose their local talents.
But history was a bit kinder. The talents are gagged by theri own non-performance after the disappointing harvests of the last seasons. So now there is some small hints here and there of "local talents" once dismissed as quitters. Oop sorry got carried away!!! -
noOriginally posted by robertteh:Mutual affection ? -
Originally posted by robertteh:"lou tiow chang tan" or "ter chun chin cher". What kind of romanization was that? TMSS? Lolz
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SingchineseOriginally posted by thedead: What kind of romanization was that? TMSS? Lolz
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Chinese nationals won't come here to become S'poreans. They come here 4 education(and govt uses taxpayers money for their fees) and after that, they will say bye bye and go back!Originally posted by Gun:I hold great repect for the former PM, but abtract from 14 Feb ST smells badly of a poorly executed pre-election marketing BS. I sure he knows how little PR/foreigners/expat value this membership.
What value is it worth for 2 yrs of one's life with chance of drowning by your own army instructors ? Do NS ? Yeah right.
This Republic is still effectively a pro-western colony designed specifically as a stepping-stone for Asian immigrats.
ST 14 Feb 2005
They told me this "Why should we come here and take up citizenship when China is booming right now? China will be the largest economy in 15-20 yrs time, so why shd we subject ourselves to this tiny island? Wal Mart isn't coming to Singapore, you know." -
As with all loans we make, we should automatically classify all the money invested in these foreigners as spent and unrecoverable. Perhaps the investment might gain us something, perhaps it might not.
Investing in foreign talents is something that we should do, however, I do seriously urge those involved to think Singaporeans First. After all, we cannot expect to get all the experts to be born locally in Singapore, we do need the foreigners here. -
Hi,
In my previous company, we have some Mainland chinese engineers, they do have sufficient technical know-how but lacking in business and social skills. However, they do and will take advantage of our Singaporean government generousity or ignorance, in taking up sponsorship to further their MBA. One of the Chinese engineer wife was paid about S$2000 (RMB9,400) a month to do her MBA. Quite alot of money in China context. An engineer with 3 - 5 years' experience will drawn about RMB 5,000 - RMB 8,000 in big cities like Shanghai and Beijing. In smaller cities, it is even lesser.
Also, a Shanghainese fren, who has been in Singapore for 12 years but now back in Shanghai is ready to give up his Singapore citizenship to try to get back his CPF monies.
There are a few more cases i encountered, but by and large, only a small minority will take up citizenship. And by the way, another Chinese fren finally takes up the citizenship after the 4th letter from government. And she did not even ask for it. WHen i congratulate her for being a Singaporean now, and jokingly mentioned that her son would then have the privilege to serve the army and defend our nation, there was complete silence.
I really think we need to finetune our policies. -
The freaking gov is not taking care of the local born singaporeans more. Instead, they are just more concern for FT.Originally posted by mannovo:Hi,
In my previous company, we have some Mainland chinese engineers, they do have sufficient technical know-how but lacking in business and social skills. However, they do and will take advantage of our Singaporean government generousity or ignorance, in taking up sponsorship to further their MBA. One of the Chinese engineer wife was paid about S$2000 (RMB9,400) a month to do her MBA. Quite alot of money in China context. An engineer with 3 - 5 years' experience will drawn about RMB 5,000 - RMB 8,000 in big cities like Shanghai and Beijing. In smaller cities, it is even lesser.
Also, a Shanghainese fren, who has been in Singapore for 12 years but now back in Shanghai is ready to give up his Singapore citizenship to try to get back his CPF monies.
There are a few more cases i encountered, but by and large, only a small minority will take up citizenship. And by the way, another Chinese fren finally takes up the citizenship after the 4th letter from government. And she did not even ask for it. WHen i congratulate her for being a Singaporean now, and jokingly mentioned that her son would then have the privilege to serve the army and defend our nation, there was complete silence.
I really think we need to finetune our policies.
I would dare to say, these FT will definitely leave singapore one day if there are better opportunities in their countries or elsewhere. Do you think that they will fight and protect singapore if singapore comes into problems.
No wonder our gov is upgrading and improving combat technologies and buying more advance weapons to defense at our expense.
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Easy classman,
Not true, they are taking care of our mandarins very well, and these scholars are Singaporeans. .or at least, PR from Malaysia..Ha...Ha...
Lets be fair, pple like Goh Keng Swee, Rajaratnam etc are giants and heros, part of the Old Guard who has made Singapore wat we hve today.
I do believe tat our garment knows it, tat FT will leave at a drop of a hat shld our economic situations turns from bad to worse. The sames goes for China, many FDI and Fortune 500 hve massive investment over there, and by the way, abt 365 out of the Fortune 500 are already in China n is growing by the day..it is inevitable..but the diff. is tat our garment, does not hve any transparent or consistent policy, in ensuring tat FTs are really FTs. Look, we paid abt S$5 million or USD5 million (not very sure whether USD or Sing $) to John Olds, S$21 million to Barry White (Chartered Semiconductor), n Thomas Cloat or someting (S$27 million) as "golden parachute" 4 their "contributions".
Along the way, these FTs brings in their "buddies", "associates" to "displace" Singaporeans, n tis is really "cut us to our bones". And these Singaporeans are not "lazy" nor "untalent".
We have abt 1 million foreign workers, or FTs abound in Singapore. There are pros and cons...n even LKY highlighted tat we shld not "alienate Singaporeans". Don't forget, we are targetting 8 miilion pple by 2030 or something...where do we get the extra 3.5 million, giving tat we hve about 4.5 million pple now....even if we make luv all day long, i dont think we can produce anohter 4.5 million...
Truly, certain sectors of our economy, like life science requires FTs, as we are the "new kid in the block" but not the tons of engineers, mediocre "talents" or "passengers".
I am not against tem, but by n large, most of these pple i interviewed or encountered r no better, or worse than our Singaporeans. We must hve faith in our pple, if not, who else will defend Singapore.
Classman, i beg to disagree on the military budget, it is neccesary, remember we r not in a very nice neighbourhood, if u know wat i mean, deterrent is very much a part of military strategy. -
I do agree with you. I personally experienced some of the FT are F**K type and I have also encountered some highly paid civil servants drawing high and just live for day doing F88k off.Originally posted by mannovo:Easy classman,
Not true, they are taking care of our mandarins very well, and these scholars are Singaporeans. .or at least, PR from Malaysia..Ha...Ha...
Lets be fair, pple like Goh Keng Swee, Rajaratnam etc are giants and heros, part of the Old Guard who has made Singapore wat we hve today.
I do believe tat our garment knows it, tat FT will leave at a drop of a hat shld our economic situations turns from bad to worse. The sames goes for China, many FDI and Fortune 500 hve massive investment over there, and by the way, abt 365 out of the Fortune 500 are already in China n is growing by the day..it is inevitable..but the diff. is tat our garment, does not hve any transparent or consistent policy, in ensuring tat FTs are really FTs. Look, we paid abt S$5 million or USD5 million (not very sure whether USD or Sing $) to John Olds, S$21 million to Barry White (Chartered Semiconductor), n Thomas Cloat or someting (S$27 million) as "golden parachute" 4 their "contributions".
Along the way, these FTs brings in their "buddies", "associates" to "displace" Singaporeans, n tis is really "cut us to our bones". And these Singaporeans are not "lazy" nor "untalent".
We have abt 1 million foreign workers, or FTs abound in Singapore. There are pros and cons...n even LKY highlighted tat we shld not "alienate Singaporeans". Don't forget, we are targetting 8 miilion pple by 2030 or something...where do we get the extra 3.5 million, giving tat we hve about 4.5 million pple now....even if we make luv all day long, i dont think we can produce anohter 4.5 million...
Truly, certain sectors of our economy, like life science requires FTs, as we are the "new kid in the block" but not the tons of engineers, mediocre "talents" or "passengers".
I am not against tem, but by n large, most of these pple i interviewed or encountered r no better, or worse than our Singaporeans. We must hve faith in our pple, if not, who else will defend Singapore.
Classman, i beg to disagree on the military budget, it is neccesary, remember we r not in a very nice neighbourhood, if u know wat i mean, deterrent is very much a part of military strategy. -
Originally posted by mannovo:
This shows the failure of the freaking gov, they failed to train singaporeans and now we have to depend so much on FT.
Easy classman,
Not true, they are taking care of our mandarins very well, and these scholars are Singaporeans. .or at least, PR from Malaysia..Ha...Ha...
Lets be fair, pple like Goh Keng Swee, Rajaratnam etc are giants and heros, part of the Old Guard who has made Singapore wat we hve today.
I do believe tat our garment knows it, tat FT will leave at a drop of a hat shld our economic situations turns from bad to worse. The sames goes for China, many FDI and Fortune 500 hve massive investment over there, and by the way, abt 365 out of the Fortune 500 are already in China n is growing by the day..it is inevitable..but the diff. is tat our garment, does not hve any transparent or consistent policy, in ensuring tat FTs are really FTs. Look, we paid abt S$5 million or USD5 million (not very sure whether USD or Sing $) to John Olds, S$21 million to Barry White (Chartered Semiconductor), n Thomas Cloat or someting (S$27 million) as "golden parachute" 4 their "contributions".
Along the way, these FTs brings in their "buddies", "associates" to "displace" Singaporeans, n tis is really "cut us to our bones". And these Singaporeans are not "lazy" nor "untalent".
We have abt 1 million foreign workers, or FTs abound in Singapore. There are pros and cons...n even LKY highlighted tat we shld not "alienate Singaporeans". Don't forget, we are targetting 8 miilion pple by 2030 or something...where do we get the extra 3.5 million, giving tat we hve about 4.5 million pple now....even if we make luv all day long, i dont think we can produce anohter 4.5 million...
[b]Truly, certain sectors of our economy, like life science requires FTs, as we are the "new kid in the block" but not the tons of engineers, mediocre "talents" or "passengers".
I am not against tem, but by n large, most of these pple i interviewed or encountered r no better, or worse than our Singaporeans. We must hve faith in our pple, if not, who else will defend Singapore.
Classman, i beg to disagree on the military budget, it is neccesary, remember we r not in a very nice neighbourhood, if u know wat i mean, deterrent is very much a part of military strategy.
[/b] -
Hi Classman,
I think we are the only countries in S.E.Asia that still carrys the white-is-better syndrome. Sad but true... -
Its the reverse. The gov train us so well, we stop thinking, stop questioning, just obey and go fetch.Originally posted by Lowclassman:This shows the failure of the freaking gov, they failed to train singaporeans and now we have to depend so much on FT. -
Sometimes, I really doubt that foreigners eg expat.. like to help us. B'cos many of us have been sabotage by them before. I think government should value their own citizens, train our own people rather than the foreigners. As in the end, they were to depend on us and not the foreigners. Chinese nationals were in singapore not just out for education but also to earn singapore monies as when it is converted is 4 times their Ren ming pi. RNB if i am not wrong. They have also taken up alot of our jobs as they ask for lower salary. This is unfair. Our government should know that it is us, Singaporeans whom they have to take good care of.
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Hi Dreamy Kite,
There are pros and cons. Globalisation is inevitable but garment has to ensure level playing field. There are certain sectors tat really requires foreign talents of which, due to our small population, narrow focus education systems does not have the environment nor the "brain mass" to make a difference in the New World. In other countries, like New Zealand, Australia, Canada, immigrant policies are clearly spelled out...with point system whereas, in Singapore, it is not transparent. We are too liberal in getting pple into Singapore, whether they are Philipinos, Cambodians, Chinese, Indians etc. I am not agains these pple but we have to ensure tat these pple coming into Singapore are really "foreign talent", sadly, most of these pple are not...n falls under the category of "passengers", Singapore is just a bus-stop for them to continue their journey..
Comng back to jobs, take a few example, Chartered Semi conductor was headed by Barry White till 2002 i think, n the most of the key appointments are ex-motorola staff ie. Barry White's associates etc.
Also, DBS Bank, during Pariff or something, i think (Frenchman), pardon my French....in 2001 or 2002, there were key resignations from MD of Shanghai, Taiwan and HK, and these Singaporeans are veteran bankers who has been around for 20 years..what a waste...
It really amaze me how our garment are fancy FTs. If our home country, where we recite our pledge, we the citizens of Singaporeans...pledged ourselves as one united people....and yet we are treated like second-class citizens...
I remember LKY daughter did voice out in 2003 tat not all foreign talents are talent...it is very telling...tat it is a bureaucratic boo-boo n a "honest mistake" tat we take in too many foreigners thus displacing Singaporeans of their jobs.
In Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou, they do welcome foreigners but there is a chinese saying "ta gou guan men", meaning tat beat the shit out of the dog, when the door is closed...its really funny...how the chinese sees it, no matter, it is a American, British, Germans or Singaporeans, once they are in...tats it...our Suzhou Industrial Park is a good example...however, Chinese garment is there to make use of the technology, management "know-how'', domain knowlegde, not to replace the local talents...this policy is clearly spell out so tat the Chinese knows tat they are valued.
Exchange rate is abt 4.6 times, dreamy.
A friend of mine told me a interesting story...singapore is like being a frog in the well...its comfortable, clean and thinks we are always the number 1 frog in the world...increasingly the temperature is being raised till we are being cooked....
I really hope the new garment under LHL gets the pulse of our Singaporeans feelings...question is does every Singaporeans count. -
Back few years ago, I attended a course conducted by Scal, Singapore Contractor Association .... The lecturer was from Hong Kong...woh lau...his English is terrible and the topic that he covered was not new to me either!!! And this, singapore government called him foreign talent???Originally posted by mannovo:Hi Dreamy Kite,
There are pros and cons. Globalisation is inevitable but garment has to ensure level playing field. There are certain sectors tat really requires foreign talents of which, due to our small population, narrow focus education systems does not have the environment nor the "brain mass" to make a difference in the New World. In other countries, like New Zealand, Australia, Canada, immigrant policies are clearly spelled out...with point system whereas, in Singapore, it is not transparent. We are too liberal in getting pple into Singapore, whether they are Philipinos, Cambodians, Chinese, Indians etc. I am not agains these pple but we have to ensure tat these pple coming into Singapore are really "foreign talent", sadly, most of these pple are not...n falls under the category of "passengers", Singapore is just a bus-stop for them to continue their journey..
Comng back to jobs, take a few example, Chartered Semi conductor was headed by Barry White till 2002 i think, n the most of the key appointments are ex-motorola staff ie. Barry White's associates etc.
Also, DBS Bank, during Pariff or something, i think (Frenchman), pardon my French....in 2001 or 2002, there were key resignations from MD of Shanghai, Taiwan and HK, and these Singaporeans are veteran bankers who has been around for 20 years..what a waste...
It really amaze me how our garment are fancy FTs. If our home country, where we recite our pledge, we the citizens of Singaporeans...pledged ourselves as one united people....and yet we are treated like second-class citizens...
I remember LKY daughter did voice out in 2003 tat not all foreign talents are talent...it is very telling...tat it is a bureaucratic boo-boo n a "honest mistake" tat we take in too many foreigners thus displacing Singaporeans of their jobs.
In Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou, they do welcome foreigners but there is a chinese saying "ta gou guan men", meaning tat beat the shit out of the dog, when the door is closed...its really funny...how the chinese sees it, no matter, it is a American, British, Germans or Singaporeans, once they are in...tats it...our Suzhou Industrial Park is a good example...however, Chinese garment is there to make use of the technology, management "know-how'', domain knowlegde, not to replace the local talents...this policy is clearly spell out so tat the Chinese knows tat they are valued.
Exchange rate is abt 4.6 times, dreamy.
A friend of mine told me a interesting story...singapore is like being a frog in the well...its comfortable, clean and thinks we are always the number 1 frog in the world...increasingly the temperature is being raised till we are being cooked....
I really hope the new garment under LHL gets the pulse of our Singaporeans feelings...question is does every Singaporeans count. What the fu.ck!!! I think I can conduct the class better than him. What a fu.ck...
Singapore government really terrible and ruthlessly ill treated us. Some people was happy that we got NSS, and said where on earth government is giving cash to its citizens. These people must be dam naive!!! LKY already said there is no free lunch in this world and yet why the gov is given money to us? Think about it, these were all our $$$$$ man....
Why I complain so much? Cos, there is no balance in between our income as compared to the inflation!!! The inflation is actually the cost of land, utilities, taxes every here and there which it had been pushed up unreasonbly.
In fact, most of the shops are unbearly surviving and just work their lives for the sg gov. -
Hi classman,
A fren of mine migrated quite some years back, n i happend to bump into him at Sim Lim Square. Aussie gahment gives AUD800 for every pple 18 years old last year n another AUD800, after John Howard won the gahment. So other gahment does gives out the dole but tey do not require our old folks to top up S$50 into their account.
I failed to c why Singaporeans r happy to get S$5 where gahment hve taken S$50 frm u.
Ultimately, i really do hope tat LHL gahment sees n feel the pulse of Sporeans.....lets see... -
Easier said than done. In the end, they listen to their own wallets more than ours. And half the money they earn are actually taxpayers money. It doesn't really belong to them...
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What's wrong with making Singapore more cosmopolitan? Singapore has an ageing society. Look at Japan. Ageing society, citizenship limited to Japanese natives and this is one amongst the other factors contributing to slower economic growth.
Singaporeans complain about racism in countries that are predominantly white. Racist sentiments in Australia is overplayed by the Singapore media. Having lived in Oz for nearly a decade, only one incident of racism and it's only one verbal sentence. No attacks.
In fact, Singaporeans seem to have a significantly stronger tendency to exhibit discriminatory behavior. Whites are treated better, people from less developed countries are treated worse. Stop generalizing and look at the individual characteristics instead!
A multicultural place is beautiful. Imagine yr neighbour on the left being Egyptian, your boss is Nigerian, yr colleague is Korean, yr best friend is Spanish and yr banker is Vietnamese. Wouldn't that be so beautiful? -
I fully agree with you!Originally posted by ejl:What's wrong with making Singapore more cosmopolitan? Singapore has an ageing society. Look at Japan. Ageing society, citizenship limited to Japanese natives and this is one amongst the other factors contributing to slower economic growth.
Singaporeans complain about racism in countries that are predominantly white. Racist sentiments in Australia is overplayed by the Singapore media. Having lived in Oz for nearly a decade, only one incident of racism and it's only one verbal sentence. No attacks.
In fact, Singaporeans seem to have a significantly stronger tendency to exhibit discriminatory behavior. Whites are treated better, people from less developed countries are treated worse. Stop generalizing and look at the individual characteristics instead!
A multicultural place is beautiful. Imagine yr neighbour on the left being Egyptian, your boss is Nigerian, yr colleague is Korean, yr best friend is Spanish and yr banker is Vietnamese. Wouldn't that be so beautiful?