A Singapore Without the PAP?
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"Singapore, under the rule of the PAP, has made much progress in many fieldsÂ…Every Singaporean knows that all these are the achievements of the people of Singapore under the leadership of PAP since 1959."
Ong Teng Cheong in Parliment, 1984.
This is a venture into the realm of speculative thought, not a glorification of the ruling party's acheivements. It is for history buffs and enthusiasts to think about 'What If' possibilities, and for Singaporeans curious to see in what other directions we could have gone. Forumners are invited to take part in the discussion in a responsible and civil manner. Try not to let the flaming get out of hand or the moderators will have to shut this thread down.
Let's imagine for a moment that Lee Kuan Yew does not narrowly escape execution by the Japanese as he did in 1942. Without his leadership, the PAP never exists.
Singapore in the 1960s actually had the kind of politics worth reading about. No dominant ruling party back then, but several parties with strongly opposed ideologies fighting for the vote. Add to this already tense atmoshphere the threat of the Communists, anti-colonialism and pro-independence movements, and communal politics Malaysia-style. What would have happened if a party other than the PAP had been in charge, or a leader other than LKY? How would this have affected the course of Singapore's subsequent history? Would we enjoy more political freedom and yet at the same time the prosperity we enjoy today? Was our wealth achieved at the expense of other values such as democracy and freedom of speech? Could an Oppostion party still have made an economic miracle of Singapore, and yet not compromised on these ideals?
There are several possibliltes, each with different consequences:
1) Singapore People's Alliance under Lim Yew Hock does not push Whitehall for Singapore's independence. No PAP to trounce him in the May 1959 elections. Just like LKY his favourite past time is Communist bashing. British support all the way thorugh in putting down the strikes and riots. Most importantly, we remain a self-governing colony of the British Empire.
2) Singapore is brought into the Federation in 1963 as it was historically. The Singapore Alliance (local branch of UMNO, MCA, and MIC) sweeps the 1963 General Elections. Singapore becomes a stronghold for the MCA. We do not seperate from Malaysia, and remain in it to this very day. What would Singapore politics be like if so? And, what would have been the effect on racial harmony and tolerance?
3) Let's take both UMNO and the PAP out of the picture. Without signifcant oppostion, David Marshall and the Worker's Party take the GE in 1963. Due to diasagreements over industrialisation and the Common Market, Singapore and Malaysia seperate in August 1965. Worker's Party remain unchallenged for the next 40 years (keep dreaming lah). Just to be ironic, David Marshall retires in November 1990 and is suceeded as PM by JBJ.
How does this affect's Singapore's economic development?
4) Since there is no PAP in this timeline, there would technically have been no Barisan Socialis. But just for arguement's sake let's have a party like it or similar in ideology to it winning the 1959 elections. Let's also assume that Operation Cold Store does not happen and it remains strong, with the support of the Chinese-speaking population. Merger never happens (it would have been suicide for their party.) Singapore, thusly, becomes part of the communist bloc (oh dear...) This no doubt would have seriously screwed Singapore's economic prospects, but consider this as well: would Malaysia have tolerated a Communist Singapore right on her doorstep?
Well, you guys have proven yourselves quite adept at arguing, so here's another chance to prove yourselves.
Intelligent comments only pls -
Longer time to progress but maybe a happier country without foreign talent policies. Maybe we have a bipartisan government . Who knows?Originally posted by Typhoon:Ong Teng Cheong in Parliment, 1984.
This is a venture into the realm of speculative thought, not a glorification of the ruling party's acheivements. It is for history buffs and enthusiasts to think about 'What If' possibilities, and for Singaporeans curious to see in what other directions we could have gone. Forumners are invited to take part in the discussion in a responsible and civil manner. Try not to let the flaming get out of hand or the moderators will have to shut this thread down.
Let's imagine for a moment that Lee Kuan Yew does not narrowly escape execution by the Japanese as he did in 1942. Without his leadership, the PAP never exists.
Singapore in the 1960s actually had the kind of politics worth reading about. No dominant ruling party back then, but several parties with strongly opposed ideologies fighting for the vote. Add to this already tense atmoshphere the threat of the Communists, anti-colonialism and pro-independence movements, and communal politics Malaysia-style. What would have happened if a party other than the PAP had been in charge, or a leader other than LKY? How would this have affected the course of Singapore's subsequent history? Would we enjoy more political freedom and yet at the same time the prosperity we enjoy today? Was our wealth achieved at the expense of other values such as democracy and freedom of speech? Could an Oppostion party still have made an economic miracle of Singapore, and yet not compromised on these ideals?
There are several possibliltes, each with different consequences:
1) Singapore People's Alliance under Lim Yew Hock does not push Whitehall for Singapore's independence. No PAP to trounce him in the May 1959 elections. Just like LKY his favourite past time is Communist bashing. British support all the way thorugh in putting down the strikes and riots. Most importantly, we remain a self-governing colony of the British Empire.
2) Singapore is brought into the Federation in 1963 as it was historically. The Singapore Alliance (local branch of UMNO, MCA, and MIC) sweeps the 1963 General Elections. Singapore becomes a stronghold for the MCA. We do not seperate from Malaysia, and remain in it to this very day. What would Singapore politics be like if so? And, what would have been the effect on racial harmony and tolerance?
3) Let's take both UMNO and the PAP out of the picture. Without signifcant oppostion, David Marshall and the Worker's Party take the GE in 1963. Due to diasagreements over industrialisation and the Common Market, Singapore and Malaysia seperate in August 1965. Worker's Party remain unchallenged for the next 40 years (keep dreaming lah). Just to be ironic, David Marshall retires in November 1990 and is suceeded as PM by JBJ. How does this affect's Singapore's economic development?
4) Since there is no PAP in this timeline, there would technically have been no Barisan Socialis. But just for arguement's sake let's have a party like it or similar in ideology to it winning the 1959 elections. Let's also assume that Operation Cold Store does not happen and it remains strong, with the support of the Chinese-speaking population. Merger never happens (it would have been suicide for their party.) Singapore, thusly, becomes part of the communist bloc (oh dear...) This no doubt would have seriously screwed Singapore's economic prospects, but consider this as well: would Malaysia have tolerated a Communist Singapore right on her doorstep?
Well, you guys have proven yourselves quite adept at arguing, so here's another chance to prove yourselves.
Intelligent comments only pls
Mr David Marshall was a great man (but history in schools pointed to him as a quitter) , he resigned in protest of the british refusal to grant independence. He was a also great diplomat . He set the stage for Singapore's independence , LKY just happened to finish his work . -
Singapore might have done well for the first 15 - 20 years. The government has industrialised the country and upgraded it from an entrepot trading point to a industrailing nation.
After that it stagnated experiencing many disappointment in its climb to an value-added and upstream economy.
Such a competitive economy required mass participation in all fields by every kind of talents. Government only knew one type of talent - the grade talents.
There was a lack of new ideas in promoting a vibrant and entrepreneurial new economy to replace the older model based on attracting foreign investments and jacking up government fees and charges.
This was a big mistake on the part of the old leaders. A lot of rhetorics but very little progress. Throughout the whole period 1970s - 1990s, the small and medium businesses in Singapore had stagnated. There was little help if all from the government who only knew how to promote everything foreign. Its only economic strategy was to attract foreign investments.
Government did not know or failed to appreciate the actual problems caused or the real solutions. Three most important reasons were responsible for this laggard performance:-
(1) Brain drains - thousands of practical non-A or non-mother-tongue talents left the country every year. Entrepreneurs did the same because they cannot survive in a place with costs going up skyhigh. They were all being pressuriszed to losses and unable to make a living due to high costs, discrimination from over-emphasising on grade talents. There were over-promotion of foreign companies and foreign talents year after year.
(2) High costs - over-emphasised non-welfarism governance has resulted in oversealous civil servants and ministries practising taxing and cost recovery in every facet of governance based on cost-centre approach.
Lands paid for by tax payers were charged again at market place at various ministries and servicces allowing government to succeed at the expense of businesses or people. Vehicle taxes, COEs and ERP constituted triple charges depriving citizens of saving for retirements.
(3) Meritocracy or promoting EM1 to gain all the educational and job opportunities without regard for mass participation by all depriving growth of entrepreneurs through broad based educations as practised by advanced countries in Europe.
These three major errors were not admitted today resulting in continuing brain drains. Government cannot really blame the people if they are the party which had committed these three major policy or self-centred errors which forced many citizens to adopt a poor regard of government despite some past limited achievement which government claimed as its own.
Actually by taxing S$500,000 in the form of triple vehicle taxing and S$200,000 per family in the form of double land taxing, success in the form of surplus the only claim the government can make is not of government making or leadership. It is sheer extraction or enforcement takings.
Alternatives are available as posted by many. A system of accountable governance will have drawn open and entrepreneur participation by all citizens. However many smart ones have left. How to get them back is now a real problem.
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Go buy firecracker and chewing gum.
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We would not have a specific direction, and might have become one of the failed nations, with slower economic growth, and internal bickering of ideals. At that stage, we could not have afforded that (surely that would have destroyed our country, given the strong communist streak in some of the people, just as Russia was as part of USSR.)
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PAP might have been good for the formative years but not really benefical at this time and age.
For one, they have too many old farts who refuse to retire- despite the fact their views are getting more & more irrelevant as years pass. There are also a lot of hypocritics- who talk one thing but do the exact opposite. There are also a lot of hugely inflated egos in the upper elchons of the PAP- no doubt after years of indirectly riggling the election system in their favour and what not.
My point is- it is time to find an alternative if we can through lawful means. We cannot continue being controlled by one party and be allowed to be controlled by one's whims and fancies.
You all know of whom I speak. -
Very true.Different times call for different people.PAP is out of date.And her rhetoric is bordering on insulated thoughts, hidden from the real world by a quilt so thick that it might smother, having once kept us warm.
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the only problem is how, since lawfully they could arrest anyone detain them indefinitely under the ISA which they have actually done to many people in singapore who spoke out against the goverment, or rather, the PAP,moreover,given that both the Straits times and mediacorp are kinda biased, it would be hard to gain any poistive publicity of such a movement
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huh
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Without Lee Kuan Yew n PAP,our lives will still carry on.There is no such thing in this world that without so-n-so,our world will stop turning n moan for him/her.Perhaps our lives will be better,or worse,without him n his party.But then again,Malaysia n Indonesia n other countries which fall behind us 10 or 20 years ago are catching up with us now.This show that life is a "marathon",those who run so fast in the starting might not be the first to reach the ending point.Our country is a very good example.
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There is something i would like to ask,is there a time limit to submit our posts here?Becoz when i finish my 1st original post n press the "submit" button,it goes back to ask me to login,n when i do login,my original post was gone.I believe i didnt take my own sweet time to type my post,so why is my post "disabled"?And some forumers here have submitted a much longer post than mine,how did they do it?Can someone here enlighten me pls?
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Well, I don't know how others do it, but for me I usually Ctrl-C after I finish typing, submit, log back on, Crtl-V and submit again.
It really sucks to have your entire post which you spent time and effort on lost... I know the feeling ,and sympathise with anyone who was in a similar situation
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I look forward to the day ... -
i think the most possible outcome is that we would become something like hong kong.
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yo' wuddupp! they shoudda add ah stroke ta rename "PAP" to "RAP". dats mothaf'uckin cool muh niggaz. ya' know whadd i'm sayin'?
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Thanks for ur info,i will try ur method next time.Ya its true......it really sucks when my entire post which i spend some time typing all gone like flushing down the toilet bowl.......By the way,other forums which i visited doesnt seem to have such a problem,why this forum so special?Originally posted by Typhoon:Well, I don't know how others do it, but for me I usually Ctrl-C after I finish typing, submit, log back on, Crtl-V and submit again.
It really sucks to have your entire post which you spent time and effort on lost... I know the feeling ,and sympathise with anyone who was in a similar situation -
S'pore was governed by kiasu prime ministers.So it has many kiasu ppl.If S'pore was not governed by PAP, there would be less kiasu ppl.