Taiwan-China Issue
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Hello people!
What do you think about China enacting the Anti-Secession Law aimed at Taiwan?
Do you think Taiwan is part of China?
Welcome any comments on this topic! =) -
taiwan is part of china and china will blast the ass off taiwan
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hm...sun zhong san wanted taiwan to be part of china...to be a province..but if u are taiwanese do u wan hava china law? haha and begin call a taiwan sheng and not taiwan..lol
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What are today sovereign states were once upon a time part of a larger nation. China is fighting the nature of human history.
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If East and West Germanies can unite despite big differences in ideology and standards of livings, why can't China and Taiwan.
If so many countries in Europe can come together to form the EU, why can't politicians learn from these countries how to live together as one for peace and prosperity.
The first lesson : Stop talking about self or leaders' own agendas or interests. Talk about the common goals and common interests of both mainland Chinese and Taiwan Chinese.
The second lesson : draw up a reunification program no matter how tentative and work towards eventual incremental improvements.
The third lesson: start exchange programs on commerce, infrastructures, social, cultural and education.
The fourth lesson : repeat lessons 1-3. Hahaha
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Ai yah ...if taiwan is clever, she should keep her mouth shut about separation and pretend nothing is going on.Originally posted by David Mars:Hello people!
What do you think about China enacting the Anti-Secession Law aimed at Taiwan?
Do you think Taiwan is part of China?
Welcome any comments on this topic! =)
After all, what's there to stop china from taking over taiwan? The americans won't bother - they invested too much $capital$ into china , they rather lose taiwan . EU won't bother - same thing as the americans too , they invested money into china. -
And those China laws are harsh,commit a moderate crime like corruption n rape can sentence u to death.Wait if China take over Taiwan,those communist sabortage the Taiwanese go n become "mineworkers",then siao liao lor......As we know how many mineworkers have die in China.Originally posted by themoment:hm...sun zhong san wanted taiwan to be part of china...to be a province..but if u are taiwanese do u wan hava china law? haha and begin call a taiwan sheng and not taiwan..lol -
I think there is a need for correction here,East Germany didnt combine with West Germany until the fall of communism in East German,n also the collapse of Soviet Union.So by the time East n West Germany combine,although economically East Germany is far behind the West German,but the "ideology" is the same.Which means that East German already adopt Western type of democracy when she combine with the west germany.Whereas in the case of China n Taiwan,the "ideology" is different.Taiwan adopt Western type of democracy,whereas China still using the "out-dated" Sovet Union Communism to run the country.Originally posted by robertteh:If East and West Germanies can unite despite big differences in ideology and standards of livings, why can't China and Taiwan.
If so many countries in Europe can come together to form the EU, why can't politicians learn from these countries how to live together as one for peace and prosperity.
The first lesson : Stop talking about self or leaders' own agendas or interests. Talk about the common goals and common interests of both mainland Chinese and Taiwan Chinese.
The second lesson : draw up a reunification program no matter how tentative and work towards eventual incremental improvements.
The third lesson: start exchange programs on commerce, infrastructures, social, cultural and education.
The fourth lesson : repeat lessons 1-3. Hahaha -
Americans will certainly interfere if a China n Taiwan war break out.Becoz the fundamental "beliefs" of United States n China are totally different.The U.S practise "democracy" n China implement "communism" or "socialism".The basic ideology is very different,and U.S from the past experience when dealing with Soviet Union,they know god damn well if they did not stop those communist,what will happen!.....Moreover,the U.S is now the only super-power in the world,they would rather lose alot of money then to lose up their domination or "police status" in the world.Not to mention they wouldnt want to see a different "ideology" country to challenge her domination.Originally posted by fymk:Ai yah ...if taiwan is clever, she should keep her mouth shut about separation and pretend nothing is going on.
After all, what's there to stop china from taking over taiwan? The americans won't bother - they invested too much $capital$ into china , they rather lose taiwan . EU won't bother - same thing as the americans too , they invested money into china. -
The correction is noted.Originally posted by drawer:I think there is a need for correction here,East Germany didnt combine with West Germany until the fall of communism in East German,n also the collapse of Soviet Union.So by the time East n West Germany combine,although economically East Germany is far behind the West German,but the "ideology" is the same.Which means that East German already adopt Western type of democracy when she combine with the west germany.Whereas in the case of China n Taiwan,the "ideology" is different.Taiwan adopt Western type of democracy,whereas China still using the "out-dated" Sovet Union Communism to run the country.
My point remains the same though: despites differences in beliefs and standards of living, countries can work together and even unite in regional economi or political groupings if there is a different approach - shared common interests.
By emphasising on differences and protectionism, all will lose.
By emphasising on common interests and making allowances for differences, all will gain. -
Yes - Lets Singapore join Malaysia.NOTOriginally posted by robertteh:The correction is noted.
My point remains the same though: despites differences in beliefs and standards of living, countries can work together and even unite in regional economi or political groupings if there is a different approach - shared common interests.
By emphasising on differences and protectionism, all will lose.
By emphasising on common interests and making allowances for differences, all will gain.
Your arguments are too simplistic. -
The "shared heritage, and culture" or common-interest diplomatic solution is only a general principle.Originally posted by lwflee:Yes - Lets Singapore join Malaysia.NOT
Your arguments are too simplistic.
The devil is in the details. Details cannot begin without general principle to provide direction.
War will be inevitable since there is no common-interest direction at work. -
Next step, China is going to claim under 1 china policy, all the china towns in the world belongs to them?
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I think that the average Taiwanese probably sees little advantage in Taiwan merging with China.
Despite all the talk about the 1 country 2 systems principle, observers of Hong Kong can see clearly that China intended to have more or less complete power.
Why would any Taiwanese want to give up their political rights in return for zero benefits?
Already the Pan Green supporters are painting the picture of China exerting force upon Taiwan - making reunification a matter of coercion than choice. How would the average Taiwanese react to the matter of unification if they feel that they are being forced by China?
I think that unless the economy of Taiwan deteriorates to the point where they need China to survive, it is unlikely for the Taiwanese as a whole to welcome unification to China -
something totally off topic but about east & west germanyOriginally posted by drawer:I think there is a need for correction here,East Germany didnt combine with West Germany until the fall of communism in East German,n also the collapse of Soviet Union.So by the time East n West Germany combine,although economically East Germany is far behind the West German,but the "ideology" is the same.Which means that East German already adopt Western type of democracy when she combine with the west germany.Whereas in the case of China n Taiwan,the "ideology" is different.Taiwan adopt Western type of democracy,whereas China still using the "out-dated" Sovet Union Communism to run the country.
anyone still remember the report years back on germans? and how they have more impotent men in west germany than the east because of the type of pampers used?
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Chinese from the mainland went to Taiwan as early as the 500Â’s, before that there were only aboriginals. The Dutch occupied the Taiwanese port in 1624 but in 1661 they were kicked out by the Ming Dynasty. Taiwan was included in the map of China under Qing Dynasty in 1683. China was forced to give Taiwan to Japan under the humiliating Ma Guan Treaty after it lost the first Sino Japanese war in 1895, in the same way Hong Kong was given to the Brit after China lost the opium war. Taiwan was back to China after Japan was defeated in 1945.
Taiwan is part of China without any doubt, from a historical point of view. PRC wants to regain control of Taiwan from the ROC, just like the Qing Dynasty did with the Ming Dynasty. This is the way all Chinese see it!!
Taiwan if part of China regardless of ideologies, after all, China is not that kind of communist countries like the old USSR, or North Korea. Over 1 million Taiwanese are living and working in China. Direct flights between the cities in Taiwan and China went on without any problem until the politician said no. Political ideologies have not changed the lives of the people, at least the majority of them. Are the Chinese in Taiwan better off than those in mainland ? Obviously no. In both places there are poor people and rich people, whether communist, socialist, democratic or whatever. I can't deny that there are more political jokes in Taiwan than anywhere else in the world, especiall the 319 incident.
America would certainly want to be involved in the cross straits affairs, in order to get the most benefits out for themselves, for the interest of the people in Taiwan nor China!! That you can take it to the bank, and Japan is but a political stooge of the Yankees.
War will be inevitable if historical facts are ignored, if the will of the people are disregarded, and if foreign interference is allowed.
Give both sides the time to loosen the historical baggage, work on the common interests of the people on both sides of the Straits and keep all politicians and foreigners out of the picture, China and Taiwan will be united naturally, and this will be for the benefits of the people on both sides.
Do China wants the China towns in the world? The question is, what do china towns in the world have to offer to China? -
Firstly, Taiwan and China was split as a result of a civl war fought along the sides of two major opposing ideology much as the former East and West Germany were, and the North and South Korea are in this present age.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Chinese from the mainland went to Taiwan as early as the 500Â’s, before that there were only aboriginals. The Dutch occupied the Taiwanese port in 1624 but in 1661 they were kicked out by the Ming Dynasty. Taiwan was included in the map of China under Qing Dynasty in 1683. China was forced to give Taiwan to Japan under the humiliating Ma Guan Treaty after it lost the first Sino Japanese war in 1895, in the same way Hong Kong was given to the Brit after China lost the opium war. Taiwan was back to China after Japan was defeated in 1945.
Taiwan is part of China without any doubt, from a historical point of view. PRC wants to regain control of Taiwan from the ROC, just like the Qing Dynasty did with the Ming Dynasty. This is the way all Chinese see it!!
Do North Korea belong to the South, or do the South belong to the North? Historically they were one Kingdom, but does that mean that the reunification is inevitable? Or that reunification is mandatory?
What about Singapore itself? We were part of the Johor Sultanate - does it mean that we owe reunification to Malaysia under their terms?
The issue of reunification is an extremely sensitive matter for China and Taiwan to work out. That you wish for it is hardly the basis to claim that all Chinese wish for it. That even if all Chinese were to wish for it - what about the wishes of the people of Taiwan - those whose lives are actually affected?
Would you happily join Malaysia on their terms (i.e. live under the pro-bumiputra New Economic Policy, Islam as national religon etc) simply because all the residents of the Malaysian archepelago wishes for this unification?America would certainly want to be involved in the cross straits affairs, in order to get the most benefits out for themselves, for the interest of the people in Taiwan nor China!! That you can take it to the bank, and Japan is but a political stooge of the Yankees.
America choose their current course because of many factors. To say that they will do so for 'benefits' are a case of oversimplification.
War will be inevitable if historical facts are ignored, if the will of the people are disregarded, and if foreign interference is allowed.
Give both sides the time to loosen the historical baggage, work on the common interests of the people on both sides of the Straits and keep all politicians and foreigners out of the picture, China and Taiwan will be united naturally, and this will be for the benefits of the people on both sides.
When KMT lost the mainland, they fled to Taiwan. That America intervened to prevent a CCP crossing served to possibly prevent a massacre. By keeping Communist China occupied with the Taiwanese split-off, the advance of Chinese communism was partially checked.
Based on the strife and bloodshed in South East Asia as a result of the actions of communist elements, it is safe to say that the growth of communism was a very real threat to the region - just take a look at the destruction and loss of lives as a result of the brutal guriella war fought by the Malaysian Communist Party.
Nowadays, the Cold War is over. But the stand-off in the Taiwan Straits remains. True, America reap benefits from supporting Taiwan - but is this stand-off a bad thing?
If America was to pull out completely now, what are the chances that there be an invasion of Taiwan? If and when that happens, a bloody massacre is very likely - would you like to see a blood bath in Taiwan? To see chinese shedding the blood of chinese?
For businesses with Chinese linkages, some might enjoy the large hinterland that China represents. But not all possiblities are bright. With unification, what about the opening of the Taiwanese market to China's huge abundence of cheap labour and goods? Would reunification help the common men in Taiwan, or would it worsen their lives instead?
For the majority of Taiwanese who are not businessmen, their lives are already comfortable - on top of that they possess the political power to choose their leaders - rights which mainlanders do not have. How would a unification benefit them?
And if reunification doe not benefit Taiwan, how then could there ever be a consentual unification? -
I guess it really depends on the Taiwanese.. here are my views
1) If they want a Taiwan state, they must be ready to fight the war to defend their clause, and they have to win. Losing will mean Taiwan becoming part of China.
2) Taiwan has never, in the last 1 or 2 decades, advocated war to solve the differences between herself and China.
3) China, however, returned by stating that it will not give up the use of force on Taiwan and continues, to this day, to increase the number of missiles pointed at Taiwan (abt 700 RIGHT THIS MOMENT) and continues to expand its military.
4) China entices Taiwan businesspeople to invest there with the econimical rewards due to the huge market there, and on the other hand, continues to place missiles to point at Taiwan, re-stating the so called 'One China' policy, restating it will not give up the use of force and even enacted an anti-Secession Law.
5) Taiwan's democracy did not come easy, would you believe a govt. like China's which plays things two ways (entice Taiwan businesses and continues to threaten with military) that it will gurantee that Taiwan gets a high degree of autonomy after unification?
6) China claims Taiwan as part of its territory when PRC has never ever governed or set foot on Taiwan. China talks about 'national sovereignty and territorial integrity' when citing reason to take Taiwan. BS. If Taiwan today is underdeveloped and not in the strategic position that it is, will China bother?
7) some Chinese have said to me that Taiwan and China both are Chinese countries, Chinese should unite. But does uniting means all becoming one nation? EU is not just one nation, it is a nation of nations. And if all Chinese should unite into one country, Singapore and China should merge since it is about 3/4 Chinese?
8 ) China has a choice with war. Singapore FM George Yeo once said in UN that any move towards Taiwan independence will lead to regional instability and troubles. That view is skewed because ultimately who holds the button to launch the missiles, China does. So does China have a choice?
9) Taiwanese have to see it clear now, that China has no intention, or less intention to negotiate with Taiwan unless Taiwan recognises that itself is a part of China. So if they want the democracy and freedom in Taiwan now, they must be ready to defend it.
If Taiwan softens, China will take it for granted. Look at what happened when President Chen tried to extend olive branches, China just will not budge, missiles keep increasing, military keep expanding, not giving up use of force and now Anti- Secession Law. Taiwan should not back down anymore and should really review its China policy, especially on allowing businesses to invest in China. It is well known that Chinese Govt. make things difficult for Taiwan firms doing businss in China if they support President Chen or Taiwan independence and China still advocates that politics and economics be separated. Back when Lee Teng Hui was president, he was the only one who dared to shout back and take tough stances against China and US or anyone else. He was sometimes crude and undiplmoatic, but that, unfortunately, is the only way to deal with China.
okok typed alot hahaha comment comment!! -
David,
I do not support Mainland belligerence to Taiwan.
But in the recent year or so, the separatist movement in Taiwan has gained momentum, and there are signs of increasing aggressiveness in the pursuit of formal independence of the island.
From attempts of national referendums, to renaming exercises, the Pan Green had been extremely active, and I am inclined to believe the MainlandÂ’s explanation of the anti-secession law as a strong and clear warning to Taiwan about the price of declaring independence. In other words, the anti-secession can be seen as protecting the status quo.
At the end of the day, a few points remained clear. Firstly, China have never, ever set a date for Taiwan to accept reunification - by not doing so it seems that they are willing, at least at this point of time, to accept the status quo so long as the separatist elements in Taiwan halt their activities.
Second, the missiles were a warning against independence, not a warning against non-reunification. Given Chen's willingness to even snub Bush, their critical ally, when Bush asked Chen to stop his referendum, it seems highly likely that without the presence of a real military threat Chen would have already declared independence, or have taken more strong/provocative steps in that direction.
For me, I feel that the preservation of the status quo of China and Taiwan would best serve the interests of the region as well as Taiwan. Forced unification is very likely to result in war. Declaration of independence will also result in war. Either way will destabilize the region, and maybe the world at large.
By holding on to the status quo, Taiwan continues to function as an independent nation in most aspects. By reserving its options to go either way at a later date, Taiwan can await a geopolitical shift where there might be real reasons for it to want to rejoin China; or where circumstances change drastically enough to force China's hand to discard the option of military force as a viable response to Taiwanese independence. -
It is not the wishes of the people to be united?? East and West Germany, North and South Korea, North and South Vietnam?? China and Taiwan is no exception. If they were to change sides, KMT will not allow Communist Taiwan to become an independent country either. Who is to say if China and Taiwan should or should not be united? not singaporean or any outsiders!!Originally posted by bumbleb:Firstly, Taiwan and China was split as a result of a civl war fought along the sides of two major opposing ideology much as the former East and West Germany were, and the North and South Korea are in this present age.
Do North Korea belong to the South, or do the South belong to the North? Historically they were one Kingdom, but does that mean that the reunification is inevitable? Or that reunification is mandatory?
What about Singapore itself? We were part of the Johor Sultanate - does it mean that we owe reunification to Malaysia under their terms?
The issue of reunification is an extremely sensitive matter for China and Taiwan to work out. That you wish for it is hardly the basis to claim that all Chinese wish for it. That even if all Chinese were to wish for it - what about the wishes of the people of Taiwan - those whose lives are actually affected?
Would you happily join Malaysia on their terms (i.e. live under the pro-bumiputra New Economic Policy, Islam as national religon etc) simply because all the residents of the Malaysian archepelago wishes for this unification?
My only wish is to see no war between the two sides. If a minority group of politicians in Taiwan were to disregard history and feeling of the Chinese people, I say they are looking for trouble and they will get it.
Wishes of the people of Taiwan? tell me who in Taiwan wish for an independent taiwan? Ah pian and his group, Lee Teng Hui, ....who else?? Even KMT, the archrival of the communists, is not in favour of an independent Taiwan.
Quoting Malaysia and Singapore is totally out of question and it shows a lack of understanding of history of China. Singapore was part of the Malaysian Federation and was ejected out. Its founding as an independent country is recognised by the Malaysian government.
America choose their current course because of many factors. To say that they will do so for 'benefits' are a case of oversimplification.
When KMT lost the mainland, they fled to Taiwan. That America intervened to prevent a CCP crossing served to possibly prevent a massacre. By keeping Communist China occupied with the Taiwanese split-off, the advance of Chinese communism was partially checked.
Based on the strife and bloodshed in South East Asia as a result of the actions of communist elements, it is safe to say that the growth of communism was a very real threat to the region - just take a look at the destruction and loss of lives as a result of the brutal guriella war fought by the Malaysian Communist Party.
Nowadays, the Cold War is over. But the stand-off in the Taiwan Straits remains. True, America reap benefits from supporting Taiwan - but is this stand-off a bad thing?
If America was to pull out completely now, what are the chances that there be an invasion of Taiwan? If and when that happens, a bloody massacre is very likely - would you like to see a blood bath in Taiwan? To see chinese shedding the blood of chinese?
For businesses with Chinese linkages, some might enjoy the large hinterland that China represents. But not all possiblities are bright. With unification, what about the opening of the Taiwanese market to China's huge abundence of cheap labour and goods? Would reunification help the common men in Taiwan, or would it worsen their lives instead?
For the majority of Taiwanese who are not businessmen, their lives are already comfortable - on top of that they possess the political power to choose their leaders - rights which mainlanders do not have. How would a unification benefit them?
And if reunification doe not benefit Taiwan, how then could there ever be a consentual unification?[/quote]
Do you believe the Americans would choose course of actions that will not benefit them? Even treaty like the Kyoto Protocol has no US participation because they believe it does not benefit them. You are entitled to your belief.
The American threatened but never fire one single shot to stop the communists from crossing over to Taiwan. Communists were land fighter and even today they are no good at naval or amphibious warfare. Americans were never in, so there is no pulling out. War will only break out if Taiwan declares independence, not when "If America was to pull out completely now".
Bloodshed and destruction as a result of the clashes of the ideologies are better seen during the Korean war and the vietnam war. The Malayan Communists had no change to do much damage. But we need to change with times, China is hardly the communist country with the original ideology. Is the stand-off at the Taiwan Straits a check on Communist advancement??? Hardly.
Taiwanese ruling parties and the media in Taiwan have made a mockery of democracy. Many Taiwanese are thus migrating to US, Australia, Singapore and now China. Do we know what the common Taiwanese feel? You can't question if children should be united with their parents based on the benefits they were likely to gain. -
China and Taiwan have been on stand off for many years since 1947 but since 1980 when China opened up, the tension become less until Lee Teng Hui came on board. It is important to recognise that Pan Green parties in Taiwan are equally responsible for the cross straits tension now.Originally posted by bumbleb:David,
I do not support Mainland belligerence to Taiwan.
But in the recent year or so, the separatist movement in Taiwan has gained momentum, and there are signs of increasing aggressiveness in the pursuit of formal independence of the island.
From attempts of national referendums, to renaming exercises, the Pan Green had been extremely active, and I am inclined to believe the MainlandÂ’s explanation of the anti-secession law as a strong and clear warning to Taiwan about the price of declaring independence. In other words, the anti-secession can be seen as protecting the status quo.
At the end of the day, a few points remained clear. Firstly, China have never, ever set a date for Taiwan to accept reunification - by not doing so it seems that they are willing, at least at this point of time, to accept the status quo so long as the separatist elements in Taiwan halt their activities.
Second, the missiles were a warning against independence, not a warning against non-reunification. Given Chen's willingness to even snub Bush, their critical ally, when Bush asked Chen to stop his referendum, it seems highly likely that without the presence of a real military threat Chen would have already declared independence, or have taken more strong/provocative steps in that direction.
For me, I feel that the preservation of the status quo of China and Taiwan would best serve the interests of the region as well as Taiwan. Forced unification is very likely to result in war. Declaration of independence will also result in war. Either way will destabilize the region, and maybe the world at large.
By holding on to the status quo, Taiwan continues to function as an independent nation in most aspects. By reserving its options to go either way at a later date, Taiwan can await a geopolitical shift where there might be real reasons for it to want to rejoin China; or where circumstances change drastically enough to force China's hand to discard the option of military force as a viable response to Taiwanese independence.
I fully agree that status quo is what is best for both sides, and the region. -
Originally posted by David Mars:
2) Taiwan has never, in the last 1 or 2 decades, advocated war to solve the differences between herself and China.
Yes, but it, or rather ah bian, has advocated independence, which is equivalent to the declaration of war to China!
3) China, however, returned by stating that it will not give up the use of force on Taiwan and continues, to this day, to increase the number of missiles pointed at Taiwan (abt 700 RIGHT THIS MOMENT) and continues to expand its military.
if I don't remeber wrongly, the missiles pointing was a direct result of ah bian's call to pass a law for Taiwan to address itself as Taiwan and not the Republic of China
4) China entices Taiwan businesspeople to invest there with the econimical rewards due to the huge market there, and on the other hand, continues to place missiles to point at Taiwan, re-stating the so called 'One China' policy, restating it will not give up the use of force and even enacted an anti-Secession Law.
It is all ah bian's fault
6) China claims Taiwan as part of its territory when PRC has never ever governed or set foot on Taiwan. China talks about 'national sovereignty and territorial integrity' when citing reason to take Taiwan. BS. If Taiwan today is underdeveloped and not in the strategic position that it is, will China bother?
But that of course! Aren't there plenty of e.g. of countries fighting tooth and nail when useful resources are found in dubious territories?
7) some Chinese have said to me that Taiwan and China both are Chinese countries, Chinese should unite. But does uniting means all becoming one nation? EU is not just one nation, it is a nation of nations. And if all Chinese should unite into one country, Singapore and China should merge since it is about 3/4 Chinese?
The relationship between Taiwan and China is different from that of Europe. Your last question is too far-fetched!
8 ) China has a choice with war. Singapore FM George Yeo once said in UN that any move towards Taiwan independence will lead to regional instability and troubles. That view is skewed because ultimately who holds the button to launch the missiles, China does. So does China have a choice?
Don't know what is your stand leh? So does China has a choice or not?
9) Taiwanese have to see it clear now, that China has no intention, or less intention to negotiate with Taiwan unless Taiwan recognises that itself is a part of China. So if they want the democracy and freedom in Taiwan now, they must be ready to defend it.
If Taiwan softens, China will take it for granted. Look at what happened when President Chen tried to extend olive branches, China just will not budge, missiles keep increasing, military keep expanding, not giving up use of force and now Anti- Secession Law. Taiwan should not back down anymore and should really review its China policy, especially on allowing businesses to invest in China. It is well known that Chinese Govt. make things difficult for Taiwan firms doing businss in China if they support President Chen or Taiwan independence and China still advocates that politics and economics be separated. Back when Lee Teng Hui was president, he was the only one who dared to shout back and take tough stances against China and US or anyone else. He was sometimes crude and undiplmoatic, but that, unfortunately, is the only way to deal with China.
ah bian extending olive branches? He only backed down when he lost support at home.
you really think lee teng hui actually dare to take tough stances agst China, US and anyone else?
Anyway, the situation now and during lee teng hui's time is completely different . -
Bravo,well said there.And talking about Malaysian communist,last time i had read a book about the population of Chinese in Malaysia during the WW2 n before Malaysia gain independence.You know last time before WW2,the population of Chinese in Malaysia is actually more than those Malays.But during WW2,alot of them were massacred by those Japanese.And later on,those Malaysian Chinese communist arise to oppose British rules n that brought on more Chinese die during that period.I think if those 2 occasions never appear,it will be we Chinese to rule Malaysia n not Malay.Originally posted by bumbleb:America choose their current course because of many factors. To say that they will do so for 'benefits' are a case of oversimplification.
When KMT lost the mainland, they fled to Taiwan. That America intervened to prevent a CCP crossing served to possibly prevent a massacre. By keeping Communist China occupied with the Taiwanese split-off, the advance of Chinese communism was partially checked.
Based on the strife and bloodshed in South East Asia as a result of the actions of communist elements, it is safe to say that the growth of communism was a very real threat to the region - just take a look at the destruction and loss of lives as a result of the brutal guriella war fought by the Malaysian Communist Party.
Nowadays, the Cold War is over. But the stand-off in the Taiwan Straits remains. True, America reap benefits from supporting Taiwan - but is this stand-off a bad thing?
If America was to pull out completely now, what are the chances that there be an invasion of Taiwan? If and when that happens, a bloody massacre is very likely - would you like to see a blood bath in Taiwan? To see chinese shedding the blood of chinese?
For businesses with Chinese linkages, some might enjoy the large hinterland that China represents. But not all possiblities are bright. With unification, what about the opening of the Taiwanese market to China's huge abundence of cheap labour and goods? Would reunification help the common men in Taiwan, or would it worsen their lives instead?
For the majority of Taiwanese who are not businessmen, their lives are already comfortable - on top of that they possess the political power to choose their leaders - rights which mainlanders do not have. How would a unification benefit them?
And if reunification doe not benefit Taiwan, how then could there ever be a consentual unification?
Actually Lou Lee when young that time also know that communist are too aggressive n extreme when comes to political issue,n their ideas are not practical.But when Lou Lee grow old,he suddenly show interest in communism due to his crave for power.......This show that sometimes when a person grow older,it is not neccessary that his thinking will advance as well,it will sometimes go backward.....sad....... -
that brought on more Chinese die during that period.I think if those 2 occasions never appear,it will be we Chinese to rule Malaysia n not Malay.
well, make that Communist Chinese ruling Malaysia.. -
I think what he meant to say is that China is the aggressor, and it has the choice in waging war. To say that Taiwan is at fault for wanting to declare independence is absurd.Originally posted by pearlie27:Originally posted by David Mars:
2) Taiwan has never, in the last 1 or 2 decades, advocated war to solve the differences between herself and China.
Yes, but it, or rather ah bian, has advocated independence, which is equivalent to the declaration of war to China!
3) China, however, returned by stating that it will not give up the use of force on Taiwan and continues, to this day, to increase the number of missiles pointed at Taiwan (abt 700 RIGHT THIS MOMENT) and continues to expand its military.
if I don't remeber wrongly, the missiles pointing was a direct result of ah bian's call to pass a law for Taiwan to address itself as Taiwan and not the Republic of China
4) China entices Taiwan businesspeople to invest there with the econimical rewards due to the huge market there, and on the other hand, continues to place missiles to point at Taiwan, re-stating the so called 'One China' policy, restating it will not give up the use of force and even enacted an anti-Secession Law.
It is all ah bian's fault
6) China claims Taiwan as part of its territory when PRC has never ever governed or set foot on Taiwan. China talks about 'national sovereignty and territorial integrity' when citing reason to take Taiwan. BS. If Taiwan today is underdeveloped and not in the strategic position that it is, will China bother?
But that of course! Aren't there plenty of e.g. of countries fighting tooth and nail when useful resources are found in dubious territories?
7) some Chinese have said to me that Taiwan and China both are Chinese countries, Chinese should unite. But does uniting means all becoming one nation? EU is not just one nation, it is a nation of nations. And if all Chinese should unite into one country, Singapore and China should merge since it is about 3/4 Chinese?
The relationship between Taiwan and China is different from that of Europe. Your last question is too far-fetched!
8 ) China has a choice with war. Singapore FM George Yeo once said in UN that any move towards Taiwan independence will lead to regional instability and troubles. That view is skewed because ultimately who holds the button to launch the missiles, China does. So does China have a choice?
Don't know what is your stand leh? So does China has a choice or not?
9) Taiwanese have to see it clear now, that China has no intention, or less intention to negotiate with Taiwan unless Taiwan recognises that itself is a part of China. So if they want the democracy and freedom in Taiwan now, they must be ready to defend it.
If Taiwan softens, China will take it for granted. Look at what happened when President Chen tried to extend olive branches, China just will not budge, missiles keep increasing, military keep expanding, not giving up use of force and now Anti- Secession Law. Taiwan should not back down anymore and should really review its China policy, especially on allowing businesses to invest in China. It is well known that Chinese Govt. make things difficult for Taiwan firms doing businss in China if they support President Chen or Taiwan independence and China still advocates that politics and economics be separated. Back when Lee Teng Hui was president, he was the only one who dared to shout back and take tough stances against China and US or anyone else. He was sometimes crude and undiplmoatic, but that, unfortunately, is the only way to deal with China.
ah bian extending olive branches? He only backed down when he lost support at home.
you really think lee teng hui actually dare to take tough stances agst China, US and anyone else?
Anyway, the situation now and during lee teng hui's time is completely different .