Taiwan-China Issue
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really? Then all the info listed below was nonsense?Originally posted by sgdiehard:The world opinion is not divided, the Republic of Taiwan does not exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan
Political status of Taiwan
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Taiwan Strait Area
The de jure political status of Taiwan is controversial due to questions about whether Taiwan should remain the Republic of China, become part of the People's Republic of China, or become an independent Republic of Taiwan. Currently, it is a de facto independent state with a government based on representative democracy. The official name of the state is the Republic of China. Different groups have different concepts of what the current formal political situation is. See also Taiwan independence and Chinese reunification.
In addition, it can be confusing because of the different parties and the effort by many groups to deal with the controversy through a policy of deliberate ambiguity. The political solution that is acceptable to most of the current groups is the status quo: that is, to leave Taiwan's status the way that it is as a de facto independent state without making a formal declaration of independence. This is acceptable in large part because it does not define the legal status or future status of Taiwan, leaving each group to interpret the situation in a way that is politically acceptable to its members.
Position of other countries and international organizations
The United States, Canada, the United Kingdom and Japan recognize that there is one China and that the People's Republic of China is the sole legitimate government of China. However, the US and Japan acknowledge rather than recognize the PRC position that Taiwan is part of China. In the case of Canada and the UK, the bilateral written agreement stated that the two respective parties take note of Beijing's position, but the word support was never used. Although the Chinese media claims that the United States opposes Taiwanese independence, the United States currently does not support (contrast that to the word oppose) either reunification or independence. The US does support both sides of the Taiwan Strait to resolve their differences peacefully. All this ambiguity has resulted in the United States constantly walking on a diplomatic tightrope with regards to the China/Taiwan issue.
Most major countries have policies toward this issue that use very careful language which is deliberately ambiguous. Under strong pressure from PRC, international organizations also have different policies toward this issue. In some cases (such as the UN and the World Health Organization) the ROC has been completely shut out while in others, such as the World Trade Organization (WTO) and International Olympic Committee (IOC) the government on Taiwan has a special name--"Chinese Taipei" in the case of APEC and the IOC, and the "Separate customs territory of Taiwan, Penghu, Kimmen, and Matsu" in the case of WTO. The ISO 3166 directory of names of countries and territories registers Taiwan (TW) separately from China (CN), but lists Taiwan as a "province of China".
IS THERE A QUESTION OF TAIWAN IN INTERNATIONAL LAW?
BY LEOPOLDO LOVELACE, JR
Leopoldo Lovelace, Jr. is a research scholar at the Mershon Center for International Security & Public Policy Studies and a Lecturing Professor of International Studies at the Ohio State University. You can reach him via [email protected].
Summary: Professor Lovelace examines the competing claims of sovereignty over Taiwan between the PeopleÂ’s Republic of China and the Republic of China on the basis of international law. While he argues that international law itself does not unequivocally support the claim of either party, it does provide a strong basis against an armed conflict to resolve the issue. -
taiwan should let china control them. i everytime on tv see how their MPs fight in parliament and i wonder you study so much and you still have to fight to get your point through, very xia suay leh, machiam ah bengs/ah lians.
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no dispute on what is written. Taiwan is indeed as de facto independent state without making a formal declaration of independence, it is known as ROC. The world is having a hard time trying to please PRC and retain their moral support for ROC which represent the free world, vs the communist China. It is recognition of one China, PRC or ROC, there is no divide in the opinions. When it comes to whether reunification or independence, nobody advocate wars, no divide, and until Taiwan change its constitutions and name, Republic of Taiwan does not exist, no question!!Originally posted by lotus999: -
I am Singaporean and the interests of Singapore comes above those of China or Taiwan. I agree with George Yeo that regional security is most important for us and that will be threatened by any move towards Taiwanese independence. I do not support Taiwan independence and hope the Chinese government will not listen to some members of her trigger-happy population.
I do suspect that US and Japan have ulterior motives with their subtle support for Taiwanese independence. The united economic powess of technologically advanced Taiwan and the cheap labour market of China will threaten them. They don't want a strong China and certainly not a reunited China.
I think instead of supporting Taiwan or China, we should focus on nations like USA who are adding oil to the fire. Stop the US support for Taiwanese nationalists. As for China, they will get Taiwan back in time. There is absolutely no need to resort to military violence. As China becomes stronger economically and militarily, Taiwan will re-consider its position. And why not? China is already opening up very quickly...in time China will become closer to a socialist state rather than a communist regime (which it is not in all but name). Authoritarian yes, communist? Don't make me laugh....
And so there is no need to rush missiles to Taiwan. Just concentrate on becoming a world superpower. China can afford to wait. Taiwan is not going anywhere... -
Originally posted by lotus999:
really? Then all the info listed below was nonsense?
From this link, it demonstrated the followings:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan
Fact #1 Taiwan has no seat in the UN.
Fact #2 More interestingly, although "Taiwan" is listed seperately from China (CN) in the ISO 3166 directory of names of countries and territories , the list also state Taiwan as a "province of China".
Isn't that a declaration of "One Country, Two System" that Beijing had advocated ? -
You are being selective in the facts you want to see.Originally posted by Gun:Originally posted by lotus999:
From this link, it demonstrated the followings:
Fact #1 Taiwan has no seat in the UN.
Fact #2 More interestingly, although "Taiwan" is listed seperately from China (CN) in the ISO 3166 directory of names of countries and territories , the list also state Taiwan as a "province of China".
Isn't that a declaration of "One Country, Two System" that Beijing had advocated ?
How about:
Fact #3 : Taiwan has its own currency
Fact #4: Taiwan has its own Armed Forces.
Fact #5: Taiwan elected its own government
Fact #6: Taiwan has diplomatic relations with a number of countries.
You see, international law is far from being unequivocal about taiwan's position. Stop pretending otherwise. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, but no one is entitled to be wrong about facts (a quote i shamelessy stole from someone at another forum (bullshido)). -
The facts remain, on its currency, it is the legal tender of ROC with the picture of Sun Yet Sen, not Republic of Taiwan, with Lee Teng Hui or Ah Bian's face;Originally posted by lwflee:You are being selective in the facts you want to see.
How about:
Fact #3 : Taiwan has its own currency
Fact #4: Taiwan has its own Armed Forces.
Fact #5: Taiwan elected its own government
Fact #6: Taiwan has diplomatic relations with a number of countries.
You see, international law is far from being unequivocal about taiwan's position. Stop pretending otherwise. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, but no one is entitled to be wrong about facts (a quote i shamelessy stole from someone at another forum (bullshido)).
the Armed Forced of Taiwan swear loyalty to ROC, not ROT; Taiwanese elected the government to represent ROC, not ROT; it is ROC who has diplomatic relations with a number of countries.
ROT, Republic of Taiwan does not exist; the current Ah Bian's government is trying to change the constitutions, change the national flag, change the national language to form an independent Taiwan which is what everybody is objecting, including many Taiwanese.
ROC is still being recognised by most overseas chinese as the free China they know, and are looking forward to a peaceful reunification with mainland. KMT's deputy chairman visited China and its chairman Lian Zhang is also planning to visit China to meet Wen Jia Pao, that is the kind of positive action that people are looking for. On the other hand, the duputy chairman of the pro-independence party, founded by Lee Teng Hui, paid respect at the Japanese shrine that commorates their war heros including those war criminals who started WW2 and occupied Taiwan. Even the ruling party in Taiwan is standing clear from these people who do not know how the taiwanese people feel. -
You really need some English lessons very badly. It'll also help you if you seek psychiatric treatment for your confused mind.Originally posted by sgdiehard:no dispute on what is written. Taiwan is indeed as de facto independent state without making a formal declaration of independence, it is known as ROC. The world is having a hard time trying to please PRC and retain their moral support for ROC which represent the free world, vs the communist China. It is recognition of one China, PRC or ROC, there is no divide in the opinions. When it comes to whether reunification or independence, nobody advocate wars, no divide, and until Taiwan change its constitutions and name, Republic of Taiwan does not exist, no question!! -
It is your poor or no knowledge of history, your poor or no understanding of current regional affair, and your stupidity and stubborness that is the problem.Originally posted by lotus999:You really need some English lessons very badly. It'll also help you if you seek psychiatric treatment for your confused mind.
No matter how good you think you think your english is, english remains just a language for communication, and if you have nothing up there, english cannot help you.
Stay in your well, frog. -
Fact#3:Originally posted by lwflee:Fact #3 : Taiwan has its own currency
Fact #4: Taiwan has its own Armed Forces.
Fact #5: Taiwan elected its own government
Fact #6: Taiwan has diplomatic relations with a number of countries.
Creation of a currency has nothing to do signify an independent state.
Is Scotland a soverign state since it issues its own Scottish Pounds ?
Does HKD makes HK SAR an independent state ?
Fact#4:
ROC's military can be trace back to Nationalist remanents when it escaped total defeat by fleeing to Taiwan isle. They came not to liberate indigious Tawianese inhabitants nor to create democracy there. In fact, they were notoriously ruthless. Do u know during civil war, Chinese civilian males were forced to join Nationalist forces failing which one will face persecution or even death ?
Do you know that KMT forces infamous 28Feb'47 incident ?
The killings and subsequent persecutions by the Nationalist dwaft that of 1989 Tiananaman incident. And do u know US had a hand in it ?
The irony that today's so-called democratic Taiwan has its roots based on over 40 yrs of dictationship on the Isle.
Fact #6:
Taiwan has diplomatic relation$ with a number (27) of countrie$ ba$ed on ca$h tran$action$.
Enuf said. -
My replies are in bold once again
Posted by Gun
Fact #6:
Taiwan has diplomatic relation$ with a number (27) of countrie$ ba$ed on ca$h tran$action$.
Pls explain what you mean by Taiwan having diplomatic ties with 27 nations based on cash transactions and justify any facts.
Posted by sgdiehard
The facts remain, on its currency, it is the legal tender of ROC with the picture of Sun Yet Sen, not Republic of Taiwan, with Lee Teng Hui or Ah Bian's face;
the Armed Forced of Taiwan swear loyalty to ROC, not ROT; Taiwanese elected the government to represent ROC, not ROT; it is ROC who has diplomatic relations with a number of countries.
ROT, Republic of Taiwan does not exist; the current Ah Bian's government is trying to change the constitutions, change the national flag, change the national language to form an independent Taiwan which is what everybody is objecting, including many Taiwanese.
ROC is still being recognised by most overseas chinese as the free China they know, and are looking forward to a peaceful reunification with mainland. KMT's deputy chairman visited China and its chairman Lian Zhang is also planning to visit China to meet Wen Jia Pao, that is the kind of positive action that people are looking for. On the other hand, the duputy chairman of the pro-independence party, founded by Lee Teng Hui, paid respect at the Japanese shrine that commorates their war heros including those war criminals who started WW2 and occupied Taiwan. Even the ruling party in Taiwan is standing clear from these people who do not know how the taiwanese people feel.
Chen's Govt. has said that ROC = Taiwan. He has also promised no change to the official name in his term. He also said the constitutional revision will not touch on issues like national name, flag and territory.
I believe Lien Zhan is meeting Hu Jintao not Wen and I believe it was the chairman, not deputy chairman of Taiwan Solidarity Union, who visited the war shrine.
lotus999
But someone here insisted that it was a clear cut case - Taiwan is a province of PRC, no doubt about it and the world opinion is not divided. What do you think or have to say?
Let's look at reality abit. PRC does not govern Taiwan, Jinmen, Penghu and Matsu, they are governed by the ROC Govt. a.k.a Taiwan Govt. How do you deny reality? How you deny the excistence of ROC Govt. elected by 23 million Taiwanese. Hence Republic of China = Taiwan = Independent nation (but sadly most nations in the world don't recognise that). World opinions are divided, or else Taiwan will not have diplomatic ties with other countries. On the issue of diplomatic ties, I do not understand why Taiwan's Govt. has to ask nations with diplomatic ties to forego the relation once they forge ties with China, that is simply in denial of the fact that PRC and ROC are 2 countries. Let the nation involved make that decision; not asking the nation to break with China or else Taiwan breaks with it.
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Originally posted by David Mars:
Agree with you that ROC = Taiwan, but not Taiwan = Republic of Taiwan.
[b]Chen's Govt. has said that ROC = Taiwan. He has also promised no change to the official name in his term. He also said the constitutional revision will not touch on issues like national name, flag and territory.
I believe Lien Zhan is meeting Hu Jintao not Wen and I believe it was the chairman, not deputy chairman of Taiwan Solidarity Union, who visited the war shrine.
lotus999
But someone here insisted that it was a clear cut case - Taiwan is a province of PRC, no doubt about it and the world opinion is not divided. What do you think or have to say?
Let's look at reality abit. PRC does not govern Taiwan, Jinmen, Penghu and Matsu, they are governed by the ROC Govt. a.k.a Taiwan Govt. How do you deny reality? How you deny the excistence of ROC Govt. elected by 23 million Taiwanese. Hence Republic of China = Taiwan = Independent nation (but sadly most nations in the world don't recognise that). World opinions are divided, or else Taiwan will not have diplomatic ties with other countries. On the issue of diplomatic ties, I do not understand why Taiwan's Govt. has to ask nations with diplomatic ties to forego the relation once they forge ties with China, that is simply in denial of the fact that PRC and ROC are 2 countries. Let the nation involved make that decision; not asking the nation to break with China or else Taiwan breaks with it. [/b]
As long as ah bian and his gang do not change the official name, no constitution revision on national flag and language, there is no dispute.
Thanks for the corrections. Glad you are aware that Lian Zhan is meeting Hu Jintao which is a very positive move for reconciliation between the two, and Taiwan Solidarity Union, founded by Lee Teng Hui, a strong advocate of Taiwan independence, is "ren zei zuo fu" in paying respect at the war shrine. It is this brand of Taiwan independence that we are against.
Why ROC "has to ask nations with diplomatic ties to forego the relation once they forge ties with China" ? it is the same as PRC asking nations to forego the relation once they forge ties with ROC. Both PRC and ROC claims to be the sole representative of China, mainland, taiwan, Hong Kong and Macao included. One nation, many system is what PRC is advocating. Whatever it is, lets hope both sides give each other time to resolve the differences. There is only political difference, mind you, chinese from both sides are finding it at home whichever side they are. -
Reconciliation is good, provided it is done on a country to country or govt to govt basis, China (PRC) and Taiwan (ROC) are 2 separate nations with a special historical background. KMTChairman Lien's visit should not meet with much rejection as long as it is between KMT and CCP, i.e, between 2 political organisations.
Personally, I don't really trust CCP when it comes to the One-China Principle and the so-called '92 Consensus. The only consensus back at that time was that there was no consensus. At best, it should be called understanding. And that understanding was " One China, each side with its own interpretation "
Chen Shui Bian's Govt. has said before that IN FUTURE, it does not reject any form of relationship with China AS LONG AS it is approved by the Taiwanese (ROC Citizens). However, China with her words and policy on their One China Principle, shows that they're not prepared to talk to Taiwan on a nation to nation or govt to govt basis, because they do not even recognise the ROC Govt., the 'China' in their One China principle is People's Republic of China, and that Taiwan is part of it. simple as that.
But I think you can't disagree with the fact that ROC exist! It is functioning as a country with its own armed forces, own diplomatic policy and an elected representative govt. 24/7
In another words, China thinks One China is now, while Taiwan keeps One China as a future option. -
No disagreement. China has a long way to go in many areas, especially the political reform necessary for reconciliation with Taiwan. I am hoping that at least the "shan tong" can proceed so that the people between the two places can travel, do business and live together. Let political reconciliation takes its time. China will change and Taiwan will change.Originally posted by David Mars:Reconciliation is good, provided it is done on a country to country or govt to govt basis, China (PRC) and Taiwan (ROC) are 2 separate nations with a special historical background. KMTChairman Lien's visit should not meet with much rejection as long as it is between KMT and CCP, i.e, between 2 political organisations.
Personally, I don't really trust CCP when it comes to the One-China Principle and the so-called '92 Consensus. The only consensus back at that time was that there was no consensus. At best, it should be called understanding. And that understanding was " One China, each side with its own interpretation "
Chen Shui Bian's Govt. has said before that IN FUTURE, it does not reject any form of relationship with China AS LONG AS it is approved by the Taiwanese (ROC Citizens). However, China with her words and policy on their One China Principle, shows that they're not prepared to talk to Taiwan on a nation to nation or govt to govt basis, because they do not even recognise the ROC Govt., the 'China' in their One China principle is People's Republic of China, and that Taiwan is part of it. simple as that.
But I think you can't disagree with the fact that ROC exist! It is functioning as a country with its own armed forces, own diplomatic policy and an elected representative govt. 24/7
In another words, China thinks One China is now, while Taiwan keeps One China as a future option. -
Lien Chan- Wannbe President- The Only place he can go now and get Red Carpet treatment is in the PRC, There he can prance around like a proud peacock pretending that he is "Presidential" . Somewhere along the line, he does not remember that he lost the elections.
The KMT is so broke today, they can''t pay their regular members their salaries for months.It makes us wonder just exactly where this money for all these preliminary trips e.t.c. and Lien's Trips originate - these totally broke high flyers!!!
While it is good that the two sides talk,The PRC should talk with the Elected Govt to get results not with the likes of Lien and Soong who until they lost the elections back in 2000 were staunch Anti Communists and Anti PRC.
The trip was not really historic. Back in 2000 and 2001, just after the KMT lost their Elections then , another group led by then VP of the KMT Wu Po Hsiung also made a "Historic" trip. Vincent Siew made another trip after that.
Here are links from the PRC National Papers:
http://english.people.com.cn/english/200011/27/eng20001127_56273.html
http://english.people.com.cn/english/200105/06/eng20010506_69312.html -
Well now both Lien and Soong have decided the date time etc to visit China and Lien will meet Chinese President Hu Jintao. It's said that Hu will meet Lien as the head of China Communist Party. So this is still between KMT and CCP. Let's look at the outcome and judge carefully.
Some said China is inviting the non-ruling parties in Taiwan to meet as a bid to isolate Chen Shui Bian and his govt., the DPP, TSU and other pro-Taiwan-state organisations. Time will tell if this will work, 2 pointers will be May's election for the National Assembly and year end's election for Mayors and Magistrates. Bian's recent gesture to agree for Soong to represent him with the Bian-Soong 10 consensus could be one way Bian's trying to contain or dilute the effect of China's isolation strategy. The same can be said for him and Lien's would-be phone conversation before Lien departs for Beijing.
Former president Lee has been very quiet lately, until these few days, when he pointed out that Lien and Soong going to China now has several mistakes, mainly that now isn't the right time as Taiwan just had 326 rally to oppose the anti-secessaion law, that this will give international community the wrong signal that Taiwan actually condone the anti-seccession law. He also mentioned their identities and positions are wrong, since they're not govt. offcials and will not represent the govt. etc. Can't deny the fact that the time they pick to visit China is really not very appropriate. And since they do not represent the Govt., then they can forget about bringing back any consensus or sign any 'deals' because that'll become illegal. Bian also has to be careful not to over react to this mere party to party event. ok enough said for now haha.
oh btw, sgdiehard, you seem kinda.. erm.. pan-Chinese, no offence but that's the feeling you're giving me. Do you think that China and Taiwan uniting as a country is the only option? -
Not sure what do you mean by "pan-Chinese" and what it implies so no question of offence. I am a Chinese Singapore. I travel to China and Taiwan often and have many friends on both sides. In fact, my friends on both sides are friends among themselves.Originally posted by David Mars:Well now both Lien and Soong have decided the date time etc to visit China and Lien will meet Chinese President Hu Jintao. It's said that Hu will meet Lien as the head of China Communist Party. So this is still between KMT and CCP. Let's look at the outcome and judge carefully.
Some said China is inviting the non-ruling parties in Taiwan to meet as a bid to isolate Chen Shui Bian and his govt., the DPP, TSU and other pro-Taiwan-state organisations. Time will tell if this will work, 2 pointers will be May's election for the National Assembly and year end's election for Mayors and Magistrates. Bian's recent gesture to agree for Soong to represent him with the Bian-Soong 10 consensus could be one way Bian's trying to contain or dilute the effect of China's isolation strategy. The same can be said for him and Lien's would-be phone conversation before Lien departs for Beijing.
Former president Lee has been very quiet lately, until these few days, when he pointed out that Lien and Soong going to China now has several mistakes, mainly that now isn't the right time as Taiwan just had 326 rally to oppose the anti-secessaion law, that this will give international community the wrong signal that Taiwan actually condone the anti-seccession law. He also mentioned their identities and positions are wrong, since they're not govt. offcials and will not represent the govt. etc. Can't deny the fact that the time they pick to visit China is really not very appropriate. And since they do not represent the Govt., then they can forget about bringing back any consensus or sign any 'deals' because that'll become illegal. Bian also has to be careful not to over react to this mere party to party event. ok enough said for now haha.
oh btw, sgdiehard, you seem kinda.. erm.. pan-Chinese, no offence but that's the feeling you're giving me. Do you think that China and Taiwan uniting as a country is the only option?
I am against Republic of Taiwan as an independent country, for it will certainly lead both sides to war. I used to look at ROC as the true rep of Chinese. But after visiting China and mixing around with many mainland chinese, I actually like the idea of the greater china = mainland, taiwan, hk and macau. At this moment, or for the next 10 years, I do not think it is the right time for both sides to be united. There is a lot the PRC needs to do about their international credibility, human rights, etc. It is heartening to see that the people from both sides have already mixed around without any problem. there are also smaller gap in their standard of livings. Even both the simplified and original chinese characters (fan ti) are used in both sides.
What is best for both sides? All my friends from both sides don't want to go to war, and that is probably the most important pre condition for any situation. Is uniting as a country the only option? I'd say status quo is the best option for now. China is still changing, and 10 years from now, who know what will happen. -
Originally posted by sgdiehard.
[/quote]There is a lot the PRC needs to do about their international credibility, human rights, etc. It is heartening to see that the people from both sides have already mixed around without any problem. there are also smaller gap in their standard of livings. Even both the simplified and original chinese characters (fan ti) are used in both sides.
What is best for both sides? All my friends from both sides don't want to go to war, and that is probably the most important pre condition for any situation. Is uniting as a country the only option? I'd say status quo is the best option for now. China is still changing, and 10 years from now, who know what will happen.[quote]
For the sake of argument, let's assume that the PRC does become open and democratic sometime in the future.
An open and democratic govt in PRC is IMO, unlikely to want to reunite Taiwan by force. The logical way to go is probably through negotiation and basic agreement by both govts. Once that is achieved, the next step might be to hold a referendum to get the acceptance of the Taiwanese ppl on this fundamental issue. As for the PRC, let's assume that the govt sees no need to hold a similar referendum.
In the event, how would the Taiwanese ppl see it and what are the pros and cons of reunification? Assuming a requirement of at least 2/3 majority to achieve reunification, one wonders what is the chance of that happening....... -
The reunification of Taiwan and China has little to do with economic or social implications. In realitly, any disadvantages are overrated.
In recent times, the world had came to see Taiwan more or less as an independent state. There is too much pride involved for Taiwan. Any reunification attempt would have undermined whatever effort Taiwan had made or stood for for so many years. I guess the real reason is emotional and psychological barrier to reunification. In the end, its politics. -
PRC becoming more open and democratic is the pre-requisite for a peaceful reunification of the greater China! If china, for any reason, moves back from its policies to open up, then I donÂ’t think any peaceful reunification could be materialized. Fortunately, there is no sign that china is going back in time and current development is most encouraging.Originally posted by suntze:For the sake of argument, let's assume that the PRC does become open and democratic sometime in the future.
An open and democratic govt in PRC is IMO, unlikely to want to reunite Taiwan by force. The logical way to go is probably through negotiation and basic agreement by both govts. Once that is achieved, the next step might be to hold a referendum to get the acceptance of the Taiwanese ppl on this fundamental issue. As for the PRC, let's assume that the govt sees no need to hold a similar referendum.
In the event, how would the Taiwanese ppl see it and what are the pros and cons of reunification? Assuming a requirement of at least 2/3 majority to achieve reunification, one wonders what is the chance of that happening.......
Among the people, businesses between the two sides are vibrant; cultural exchanges are active, even now the opposition parties heads in Taiwan are visiting China and for the first time, the communists and the KMT are meeting to talk!! If these activities go on for the next 10 years, will Taiwan or china need a referendum to reunite?
We witnessed the reunification of east and west germany, not sure if they needed any referendum. There are many ways reunification can be achieved, referendum is just one and Taiwan may not need that.
With income gaps narrowed and greater exchanges among the people from both sides, there is little emotional or psychological barrier to reunification. The real barrier remains political, Taiwanese politics, but the greatest barrier is from outside of china and Taiwan, countries that do not want to see a strong and united china, countries that wish to use Taiwan to complete the ring to encircle china.
The force behind reunification is the nationalistic sentiments on both sides of the straits, the recognition that there is only one china and one family, and the need for brothers to be reconciled. (You are born into a family and you do not decide if you belong based on pros and cons.)
What will happen in the next 10 years? Lets leave it to time and not hasten the process in whichever direction. -
PRC becoming more open and democratic is the pre-requisite for a peaceful reunification of the greater China! If china, for any reason, moves back from its policies to open up, then I donÂ’t think any peaceful reunification could be materialized. Fortunately, there is no sign that china is going back in time and current development is most encouraging.
First of all let me compliment you on some good points posted above. Regarding democratisation in PRC, I agree there is some sign of the leadership wanting to push for greater political reform and accountability, especially after Hu took over from Jiang. However, CCP's vision of reform may be limited to, for eg, open election of village leaders and greater leeway for the media to act in a watchdog role, etc. IMO, they are unlikely to go down the path towards multiparty election anytime soon. A fundamental difference in the political systems may be one issue that will divide the mainland from Taiwan.
Among the people, businesses between the two sides are vibrant; cultural exchanges are active, even now the opposition parties heads in Taiwan are visiting China and for the first time, the communists and the KMT are meeting to talk!! If these activities go on for the next 10 years, will Taiwan or china need a referendum to reunite?
We witnessed the reunification of east and west germany, not sure if they needed any referendum. There are many ways reunification can be achieved, referendum is just one and Taiwan may not need that.
With income gaps narrowed and greater exchanges among the people from both sides, there is little emotional or psychological barrier to reunification. The real barrier remains political, Taiwanese politics, but the greatest barrier is from outside of china and Taiwan, countries that do not want to see a strong and united china, countries that wish to use Taiwan to complete the ring to encircle china.
The force behind reunification is the nationalistic sentiments on both sides of the straits, the recognition that there is only one china and one family, and the need for brothers to be reconciled. (You are born into a family and you do not decide if you belong based on pros and cons.)
What will happen in the next 10 years? Lets leave it to time and not hasten the process in whichever direction.
I accept there is increasing economic ties between the two sides. However, I am not so sure about the emotional or psychological factors, as you term it. One factor in particular may be the push for a Taiwanese identity by some politicians. This particularly appeals to young ppl to whom blood tie with the mainlanders is less meaningful. If PRC want to reunite peacefully, it is vital to avoid alienating the Taiwanese ppl and do more to promote exchanges at all levels. As you say, exchanges are growing but PRC may not be wise by only seeking to play the game with the Lien Chan and Soong.
On the absence of referendum in the reunification of Germany, I believe the East German govt was in a state of near collapse and the East Germans themselves were all trying to get across to the west. So IMO, a referendum would simply not be possible; besides, there is no questioning the preference of the East Germans to reunite.
Regarding the interest of outside parties, I agree they may not view reunification positively. The US and Japan have gone on record to identify PRC as a threat and will try to use the Taiwan issue to contain China. Whether they will overtly seek to divide remains to be seen.
What will happen in the next 10 years? I believe much depends on how PRC (and perhaps to a lesser extent other parties) plays its hand. -
+1 totally agree..Originally posted by sgdiehard:It is your poor or no knowledge of history, your poor or no understanding of current regional affair, and your stupidity and stubborness that is the problem.
No matter how good you think you think your english is, english remains just a language for communication, and if you have nothing up there, english cannot help you.
Stay in your well, frog. -
U really seemed quite confused. U admitted that there is no dispute on what lotus999 posted yet at the same time u insisted that there is no divide in the opinion. Didn't what lotus999 post showed that there are competing claims of sovereignty over Taiwan? Mayb u didn't explain your view properly?Originally posted by sgdiehard:no dispute on what is written. Taiwan is indeed as de facto independent state without making a formal declaration of independence, it is known as ROC. The world is having a hard time trying to please PRC and retain their moral support for ROC which represent the free world, vs the communist China. It is recognition of one China, PRC or ROC, there is no divide in the opinions. When it comes to whether reunification or independence, nobody advocate wars, no divide, and until Taiwan change its constitutions and name, Republic of Taiwan does not exist, no question!! -
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