Singles mum
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Jus watched the docu on CH U last nite & realized some dilemma facing unwed moms. Examples:
1) They cannot purchase or rent any new HDB flats directly frm HDB--- only thru re-sale market which is generally more expensive
2) They are not entitled to any baby bonus or related benefits accorded to normal families eg. tax reductions for those who entrust their children to granparents
I guess this policy of not recognizing illegitimate children traces back to an old China "Feng Jian" view where they ostracize adulterous couples & despise children borne out of wedlock.
But actually, "Zai qing Zai Li", the Govt shld actually recognize these babies. Why?
Emotinal-wise, we have always condemmed abortions or mums abandoning babies. But when the single moms wants to assume responsibilties, they are deined a chance.
Policy-wise, since S'pore is facing an all time population low, these babies count in as part of the population. Rather than relying on foreign imports, why deny these truly local children a fair chance. Jus 'cos their parents have been irresponsible?
As one of these single moms put in, "Even prisoners are given a 2nd chance..."
I am not advocating special privileges to them, but is there rely a need to deliberately ostracsize them thru all these HDB policies & denying them of benefits given to parents? -
for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction...
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i fully agree. the govt has to be pro-active and do more to help single mums.Originally posted by A Beautiful Mind:Jus watched the docu on CH U last nite & realized some dilemma facing unwed moms. Examples:
1) They cannot purchase or rent any new HDB flats directly frm HDB--- only thru re-sale market which is generally more expensive
2) They are not entitled to any baby bonus or related benefits accorded to normal families eg. tax reductions for those who entrust their children to granparents
I guess this policy of not recognizing illegitimate children traces back to an old China "Feng Jian" view where they ostracize adulterous couples & despise children borne out of wedlock.
But actually, "Zai qing Zai Li", the Govt shld actually recognize these babies. Why?
Emotinal-wise, we have always condemmed abortions or mums abandoning babies. But when the single moms wants to assume responsibilties, they are deined a chance.
Policy-wise, since S'pore is facing an all time population low, these babies count in as part of the population. Rather than relying on foreign imports, why deny these truly local children a fair chance. Jus 'cos their parents have been irresponsible?
As one of these single moms put in, "Even prisoners are given a 2nd chance..."
I am not advocating special privileges to them, but is there rely a need to deliberately ostracsize them thru all these HDB policies & denying them of benefits given to parents? -
The flawed argument that helping single moms would encourage more of such cases is simply illogical. Why more any rational person be "encouraged" to take the risk of bearing such a heavy burden, jus 'cos the Govt may be more forgiving..
Another point is perhaps heavier penalties shld be melted to the irresponsible fathers. Why have all these jerks got away totally scot free, free of any responsibilties towards the child as well as any social responsibilites.
It does not make sense when u view it this way: A man who is responsible, got married but realized somethk wrong later in life, seek a divorce & has to have half of his fortune splited (or made to pay monthly alimonies ).
But for these jerks who f-u-c-k & flee, they are not held liable. These ppl would most likely move on in life & start a new family, with nothing more than a bad memory?
How difficult is to locate these irresponsible men & then impose penalties on them? I've always been amazed how the guys in these cases are always not mentioned & seemingly scot free. -
i kinda sympathise with your view beautiful mind but it seem to push the responsible all to the men arent right at all. whenever a marriage goes wrong, both party has to assume it own responsibility. in the case on ONS, the female has to protect themselves from pregnancy. in the moment of love, both party consent to protective sex, who should we blame? maybe the sperm or the egg. when choosing a partner be careful.
currently our singapore HDB policy is slowly opening up. all singles can allow to purchase resale flat. as such single mom or father will be classify under the same category. we dont want to discriminate but we want to give priority to those couples who are legally married want to start a family.
anyway, resale flats are not that expensive depending on type of units and location. choose one that is affordable to yourself. there is always a way out in life, just dont create a problem and blame govt for it. -
aiyah, who ask the gal to spread her legs....nobody forced her to mah. want to SONG then have to bear the possible consequences lor.....
its never our fault, never.
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priority? what priority is there when we have a oversupply of flats. we dont even have enough married couples to justify prioritising.Originally posted by reyes:i kinda sympathise with your view beautiful mind but it seem to push the responsible all to the men arent right at all. whenever a marriage goes wrong, both party has to assume it own responsibility. in the case on ONS, the female has to protect themselves from pregnancy. in the moment of love, both party consent to protective sex, who should we blame? maybe the sperm or the egg. when choosing a partner be careful.
currently our singapore HDB policy is slowly opening up. all singles can allow to purchase resale flat. as such single mom or father will be classify under the same category. we dont want to discriminate but we want to give priority to those couples who are legally married want to start a family.
anyway, resale flats are not that expensive depending on type of units and location. choose one that is affordable to yourself. there is always a way out in life, just dont create a problem and blame govt for it. -
But by allowing single moms the same privileges and tax rebates, won't the govt be sending out a message to its people that it's ok to have children out of wedlock, it's ok to sleep around, it's ok to be young & irresponsible, etc? Certain rules or govt policies create an after-effect only many, many years down the road.Originally posted by A Beautiful Mind:Emotinal-wise, we have always condemmed abortions or mums abandoning babies. But when the single moms wants to assume responsibilties, they are deined a chance.
Policy-wise, since S'pore is facing an all time population low, these babies count in as part of the population. Rather than relying on foreign imports, why deny these truly local children a fair chance. Jus 'cos their parents have been irresponsible?
As one of these single moms put in, "Even prisoners are given a 2nd chance..."
I am not advocating special privileges to them, but is there rely a need to deliberately ostracsize them thru all these HDB policies & denying them of benefits given to parents?
For instance, those who remember the questionably 'wise' Two Is Enough policy. Today, we are facing a population low.
At the end of the day, we are Asians and we do have some very good values which should really not be diluted further, if at all possible. Yes, the perhaps the child born out of wedlock should not be denied a fair chance for a good start bec their parents have been irresponsible. But allowing the single mom these benefits now might result in a downward spiralling effect that could go way, way out of control. Aids is already on the increase ... -
Bm ... you're posting in a forum full of women bashers....
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Originally posted by czechmate:
i beg to differ. according single moms the same privileges and tax rebates is hardly a sign to encourage people to have babies out of wedlock. ask yourself and people around you. will one starts sleeping around and be irresponsible just because of the privileges and tax rebates. your concern is a bit stretched.
But by allowing single moms the same privileges and tax rebates, won't the govt be sending out a message to its people that it's ok to have children out of wedlock, it's ok to sleep around, it's ok to be young & irresponsible, etc? Certain rules or govt policies create an after-effect only many, many years down the road.
For instance, those who remember the questionably 'wise' [b]Two Is Enough policy. Today, we are facing a population low.
At the end of the day, we are Asians and we do have some very good values which should really not be diluted further, if at all possible. Yes, the perhaps the child born out of wedlock should not be denied a fair chance for a good start bec their parents have been irresponsible. But allowing the single mom these benefits now might result in a downward spiralling effect that could go way, way out of control. Aids is already on the increase ... [/b]
without the proper support in place we are only adding to the burden of single mums. there is no denying that they have made a mistake. but who doesn't make mistakes? like ex-convicts they should be given a chance and proper support. -
its like dis la. u live in da place, u follow da rules. dun like it u go. cant go dun complain becos u dun have choice.
when a person post in forum hor...got forum rules right? go against it u get banned. same thing...
watever "silly" propaganda da govt has...they lay da rules...as long as u still citizen hor sorry hor...u follow. dun follow dun blame them ah. they already stated b/w liao.
who ask u must give birth? ur choice right? who say u dun marry must have kid first? u can sign da bloody marriage contract wat?
i got nuthing against unwed moms...but hor...dun whine la....ming zhi gu fan very annoying wan...if u wanna give birth then u bear all consequences. -
why do you say that? are you implying that one of us here posting in this thread is an unwed mum?Originally posted by color ghost:its like dis la. u live in da place, u follow da rules. dun like it u go. cant go dun complain becos u dun have choice.
when a person post in forum hor...got forum rules right? go against it u get banned. same thing...
watever "silly" propaganda da govt has...they lay da rules...as long as u still citizen hor sorry hor...u follow. dun follow dun blame them ah. they already stated b/w liao.
who ask u must give birth? ur choice right? who say u dun marry must have kid first? u can sign da bloody marriage contract wat?
i got nuthing against unwed moms...but hor...dun whine la....ming zhi gu fan very annoying wan...if u wanna give birth then u bear all consequences. -
woops
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no i not implying anything...but thats what i feel....theres no need to whine if u cannot follow rules. simple as that.Originally posted by dragg:why do you say that? are you implying that one of us here posting in this thread is an unwed mum?
i also mean to say its not a big injustice. it is a fact that they noe and dun follow rules.
no matter justifiable or not. its a rule and u break it u have to bear da consequences wat. -
so you believe in hard and fast rules. if you or someone around you make a mistake and broke a rule or law for the matter you believe that he or she has to bear the consequences and shouldnt whine. will you not give them support or help them out?Originally posted by color ghost:no i not implying anything...but thats what i feel....theres no need to whine if u cannot follow rules. simple as that.
i also mean to say its not a big injustice. it is a fact that they noe and dun follow rules.
no matter justifiable or not. its a rule and u break it u have to bear da consequences wat. -
when is the show?
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Isn't this discrimination and inequality of its citizens?
Why have a national pledge when government
ministries practise another pledge?
So tell me what's the real Singapore identity or should it be color?
They sure are remaking Singapore not for better, certainly for worst.
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Originally posted by czechmate:
Almost no woman would want to have a baby without a father. Period.
But by allowing single moms the same privileges and tax rebates, won't the govt be sending out a message to its people that it's ok to have children out of wedlock, it's ok to sleep around, it's ok to be young & irresponsible, etc? Certain rules or govt policies create an after-effect only many, many years down the road.
For instance, those who remember the questionably 'wise' [b]Two Is Enough policy. Today, we are facing a population low.
At the end of the day, we are Asians and we do have some very good values which should really not be diluted further, if at all possible. Yes, the perhaps the child born out of wedlock should not be denied a fair chance for a good start bec their parents have been irresponsible. But allowing the single mom these benefits now might result in a downward spiralling effect that could go way, way out of control. Aids is already on the increase ... [/b] -
ya. if i kena caught for doing something wrong i bear full responsibility. but dun mean i wun help if someone i know kenaed. but dun go around expect like law is unfair they very pitiful etc etc. case by case basis, but for most time ah....they ownself find trouble wan meh. got it?Originally posted by dragg:so you believe in hard and fast rules. if you or someone around you make a mistake and broke a rule or law for the matter you believe that he or she has to bear the consequences and shouldnt whine. will you not give them support or help them out? -
As I mentioned, the notion that the Govt being lenient with single mom will lead to an increase in such cases is simply an illogical one. Let me illustrate with an example:Originally posted by czechmate:But by allowing single moms the same privileges and tax rebates, won't the govt be sending out a message to its people that it's ok to have children out of wedlock, it's ok to sleep around, it's ok to be young & irresponsible, etc? Certain rules or govt policies create an after-effect only many, many years down the road.
We all know that employers discriminate against ex-convicts. LetÂ’s say frm tomorrow onwards, NO employers will ever practice such discriminations. Will we see a sharp increase in crime from then on?
Why would I, or anyone, be “induced” to become a prisoner jus ‘cos I know the society will be more accepting. There is no inherent reward in being a prisoner.
On the other hand, a deterrent sentence is often applied in robbery cases. Will lighter penalties encouraged more robberies? Likely, ‘cos there are great “rewards” for every successful robbery.
So in the case of single mom, there are no natural rewards for having to go thru months of pregnancy alone, bringing up a kid alone. Why would anyone be induced to bear such heavy burden simply ‘cos the discriminations is removed.
So my point is simply: Removing such discriminations will not likely encourage more of such problems. However, it'll go a long way in showing how our society have evolved & matured, by showing greater grace & acceptance.
A side track: The roots of such social problem will be more effectively curbed at the earlier level--- educating the young about sex, reaching out to teenagers from broken families ‘cos they are most likely to end up in such scenarios. Making things difficult for single moms, IMHO, serve no practical purposes other than making lives difficult for them -
should be unwed single mum. what about single unwed DAD?
isn't it the same?
face it ladies, you decided to give in than give brith and keep the baby. -
i personally feel that there should be no bonus or such "perks" which might be viewed as saying that the govt or rather the society thinks that single parents are ok to be
yes unfortunately our society thinks what our govt wants us to
but that doesnt mean we should abandon them to die
about HDB's policy on single parents, i feel strongly that it is wrong, by claiming to provide homes for singaporeans, they should stand up to that and should not let anything else get in the way, your people need houses , and you should provide them with houses no matter who is buying as long as its a singaporean
and while they should not be given any bonus\perks for children borned out of wedlock, there should still be areas where they can apply for finacial aid for those in the lower income group
and seriously , if there is any woman in sg who can actually get 2-3 children out of wedlock, meaning more than 1
forget about "punishing" them, and discrimating of any sort, i doubt its useful in their case -
What about divorced women? What is the government policy with regards to them? Some of these are very sad cases.
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Originally posted by A Beautiful Mind:
i fully agree
As I mentioned, the notion that the Govt being lenient with single mom will lead to an increase in such cases is simply an illogical one. Let me illustrate with an example:
We all know that employers discriminate against ex-convicts. LetÂ’s say frm tomorrow onwards, NO employers will ever practice such discriminations. Will we see a sharp increase in crime from then on?
Why would I, or anyone, be “induced” to become a prisoner jus ‘cos I know the society will be more accepting. There is no inherent reward in being a prisoner.
On the other hand, a deterrent sentence is often applied in robbery cases. Will lighter penalties encouraged more robberies? Likely, ‘cos there are great “rewards” for every successful robbery.
So in the case of single mom, there are no natural rewards for having to go thru months of pregnancy alone, bringing up a kid alone. Why would anyone be induced to bear such heavy burden simply ‘cos the discriminations is removed.
So my point is simply: Removing such discriminations will [b]not likely encourage more of such problems. However, it'll go a long way in showing how our society have evolved & matured, by showing greater grace & acceptance.
A side track: The roots of such social problem will be more effectively curbed at the earlier level--- educating the young about sex, reaching out to teenagers from broken families ‘cos they are most likely to end up in such scenarios. Making things difficult for single moms, IMHO, serve no practical purposes other than making lives difficult for them
[/b] -
Perhaps. But you have the choice. If you choose to have the child, you should be prepared for the responsibilities that come along with it. If you aren't able to support the child, whether or not society frowns on abortions, it is a life that you must be ready to bear full responsibility for. Where do you think the govt gets the dough to fund these 'perks' that single mothers want to ask for? They are single, they get whatever 'perks' the govt allots to singles; if they are marrieds/families, they get whatever 'perks' the govt allots the marrieds/families. So is the single mother asking for special treatment - to be eligible for whatever it is that singles are eligible for and to be eligible for what married parents are eligible for? Are single mothers discriminated against from purchasing flats that any other single, unmarried person is allowed?Originally posted by Qitai:Almost no woman would want to have a baby without a father. Period.
And I don't get the comparison between a single mother and a convict. They seem to be completely separate issues. My understanding of the situation with giving convicts a second chance simply this: asking people to employ them so that they are given the opportunity to contribute to society. Are employers being given cashbacks or refunds by the govt for employing them? Does anyone know about this?