china attitude to japan
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I don't know where you get it that it is "real" that "a lot of people are protesting against the japanese whether its the war or the textbook stuff"', but I am sure that the protestors are protesting against the japanese new text books which justified the atocities committed during the WW2 against the people of China.Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:i dun't know about uncalled for , but it is real, a lot of people are protesting against the japanese whether its the war or the textbook stuff
but are you sure all of those people want to protest because they hate japan or that they're protesting against the new textbook??
if i were to throw the whole lot of you into the middle of them, chance are we'll get quite a few shouting and screaming along with the rest of them even if you don't hate the japanese, because your emotions would allow you to get carried away
anyone still remember a few weeks back when an embassy was burned?
it only takes a small stone to start an avalanche.
Again it is your assumption that everybody will get carried away by emotions. The scale of the protests in China is nothing, compared to the 500,000 protestors in HK and Taiwan, and compared to the size of the population in China. When emotion truely runs wild in china as in the 70s then normal life would be disrupted but in many countries like Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, just to name a few, and even in indonesia, people can protest to voice their frustration but life goes on. Singaporeans are conditioned to shut up and leave things to the government. any small gathering is likely to bring down the whole economy. Singaporean will never have the freedom to protest and will never appreciate, but lets not ridicule what we don't have.
What is down right derogatory is your assumption that "when they're angry they just want to kill jap men ,rape jap women, dig up their graves, loot their money, all because everyone else around them is also angry". What gives you that kind of idea??
Japan's war with China lasted over 8 years and millions killed. Japan's occupied Korea for 35 years and millions perished. The impact of the wars on the people of these two countries are far greater than the 2 and a half years occupation of singapore with only slightly more than 50,000 killed. What Japan has consistantly done were to justify their actions in WW2. Respecting the ww2 war criminals as war heros, changing history in text book....... Imagine Germany putting up a figure of Hitler for remembrance in Berlin and teaching their children that ww2 was an attempt to unite europe to become the EU today to resist the influence of America......what do you think the europeans will do? if their emotions do not run wild, they are not european.
don't go on China bashing just because of a few jobs in singapore were taken away by the chinese nationals. That is the government's policy, don't like it can protest or not??? -
Originally posted by ShutterBug:
Check the label at back of your keyboard or mouse.
[quote]Japan, I solute them because almost everything we use, is a Japanese product we can't do without.
Where izzit made from ?Think, think, think, China. THINK HARD!!!! Stop using your mouths so much. Use your collective brains!
China has man in space. What happened to Japan ? -
Any CNN or BBC report Japanese being physically assaulted during recent demo in China ?Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:haha they don't care which generation it is for the japs
when they're angry they just want to kill jap men ,rape jap women ,dig up their graves, loot their money, all because everyone else around them is also angry
Chinese generately are very strained ppl. Even provoked seldom do you see them commiting grotesque violence on fellow human being.
Japanese history, in contrast, is tainted with actions of genocides, beheading practices, chemical warfare on civilians, mass slaughter, human experientation, baby-killings, forced slavary of women and POWs.....
The list goes on and on...
These Japanese perpetrators where sentenced to death.
Now their remains rest in a Japanese Shrine which current Japanese politicians pay yearly homage to.
Now, Japanese textbooks are righting the wrongs & clearing the uncleaned from their next generation . Why ?
Yeah, the Chinese and Koreans shouldn't be angry, ignore the past and get on with life.
How sweet. -
instead of futile protests, china should be like meiji japan. use all its resources and efforts to modernise and strengthen itself and then come and whack japan's arse.
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Shang-dong or Sze Chuan -pop?Originally posted by CosmoKing:When China becomes the dragon lord one day, teens will no longer go for J-pop/Kpop or americano culture but Shang-dong or Sze Chuan -pop music with their malan noodles and chinese tea. Many will try to emulate the Chinese's every dressings, behaviour, business ethics like the latest trends. Powderful huh?
firstly , i did not assume that EVERYONE would be carried away, i only said most,Originally posted by sgdiehard:I don't know where you get it that it is "real" that "a lot of people are protesting against the japanese whether its the war or the textbook stuff"', but I am sure that the protestors are protesting against the japanese new text books which justified the atocities committed during the WW2 against the people of China.
Again it is your assumption that everybody will get carried away by emotions. The scale of the protests in China is nothing, compared to the 500,000 protestors in HK and Taiwan, and compared to the size of the population in China. When emotion truely runs wild in china as in the 70s then normal life would be disrupted but in many countries like Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, just to name a few, and even in indonesia, people can protest to voice their frustration but life goes on. Singaporeans are conditioned to shut up and leave things to the government. any small gathering is likely to bring down the whole economy. Singaporean will never have the freedom to protest and will never appreciate, but lets not ridicule what we don't have.
as for the freedom to protest , i honestly do not believe i need that currently
if something is really drastic enough to make me protest , the law or anything
else would not beable to stop me from doing so, and what makes you think the chinese have the freedom to protest anyway judging from what some here are saying ?
because when people are angry, they can't think , and when they can't think they vent their angryOriginally posted by sgdiehard:What is down right derogatory is your assumption that "when they're angry they just want to kill jap men ,rape jap women, dig up their graves, loot their money, all because everyone else around them is also angry". What gives you that kind of idea??
ok thats something i don't knowOriginally posted by sgdiehard:Japan's war with China lasted over 8 years and millions killed. Japan's occupied Korea for 35 years and millions perished. The impact of the wars on the people of these two countries are far greater than the 2 and a half years occupation of singapore with only slightly more than 50,000 killed. What Japan has consistantly done were to justify their actions in WW2. Respecting the ww2 war criminals as war heros, changing history in text book....... Imagine Germany putting up a figure of Hitler for remembrance in Berlin and teaching their children that ww2 was an attempt to unite europe to become the EU today to resist the influence of America......what do you think the europeans will do? if their emotions do not run wild, they are not european.
not sure why you feel that i'm bashing china , but i assure you i'm not doing so and least of all because "of a few jobs in singapore were taken away by the chinese nationals. "Originally posted by sgdiehard:don't go on China bashing just because of a few jobs in singapore were taken away by the chinese nationals. That is the government's policy, don't like it can protest or not???
china actually, my key board's pretty solid , having lasted me for a few years already, my optical mouse is kinda screwy , it doesn't allow me to play games like cs with it cos the arrows jump all over the place whenever i play csOriginally posted by Gun:
Check the label at back of your keyboard or mouse.
Where izzit made from ? -
Made in China, just means their labor is cheap.
It's still Microsoft, and Sony, is still Sony - regardless WHERE it was made in.
going to the moon, is old trick.
At least, Japan wasn't responsible for the loss and deaths brought on by SARS which China covered up for the value of face.
What face??? DO they have it now??? -
Originally posted by vito_corleone:
instead of futile protests
Futile ? Hardly.
It made both CHN and JPN gov to seat up and pay attention on how influencial the ghosts of the past still haunts dynamics of present day geo-politics.
That is the nature of human history and civilisation.
Never should one down play nor ignore history.. be it in textbooks or personnel awareness.china should be like meiji japan. use all its resources and efforts to modernise and strengthen itself
According UN latest estimates ==>
250 million rural population Chinese were living in povery in 1978.
80 million in 1992.
42.1 million in 1998.
If poverty is a measure of a country's modernisation and growth, then I think "using all resource" is an under~statement in China's case:and then come and whack japan's arse.
You mean taking avenge on Japan's ugly past ?
I doubt so. If both are constantly at loggerheads, there will be no winner.
History has shown that already. -
No Japanese people died in the protests. No one was raped. Since u oppose the protests, can u suggest a better way to let Japan's leaders know that whitewashing and glorifying of their past altrocities is wrong?Originally posted by schrecklichkeit:see what i mean? they are just self-righteous because something has been done wrong to THEM.
just making mountains out of molehills when they should just calm down and observe
Looking at the Korean, Chinese protests against the japs begets one question. Why are they disliked by all their closest neighbours? -
Originally posted by ShutterBug:
How about your keyboard and mouse ? Made in China ?
Made in China, just means their labor is cheap.
It's still Microsoft, and Sony, is still Sony - regardless WHERE it was made in.
Why you buy them. Coz its cheap ?
Bingo ! Welcome to globalisation. Your purchases has just contributed to the growth of China's GDP.going to the moon, is old trick.
Sorry pal, did i mentioned going to the moon ?
At least, Japan wasn't responsible for the loss and deaths brought on by
Good try.
SARS which China covered up for the value of face.
But that's another story on health concern. Not abt politics nor history.What face??? DO they have it now???
Care to elaborate ? -
covering up was expected and i don't blame china for that since they're not the only ones who were doing the covering up and denial stuffOriginally posted by Gun:At least, Japan wasn't responsible for the loss and deaths brought on by
SARS which China covered up for the value of face.
but i didn't like the fact that they exclude taiwan from the WHO for political reasons -
Yeah, please scream at LHL and not the FT chinese or indians.Originally posted by sgdiehard:don't go on China bashing just because of a few jobs in singapore were taken away by the chinese nationals. That is the government's policy, don't like it can protest or not???
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There is a thing i feel strange,although China is a communist country,but their ppl can still go demonstration on the street.Whereas in our country,although our politicians say it is a democratic country but we cannot go any kind of demonstration,so gay!!!
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how can u talk like that?Originally posted by Gun:
China has man in space. What happened to Japan ?
then i ask one question back at you
malaysia got petronas twin towers. tallest building in the world. where is singapore? they also got f1 sepang. singpore leh? -
the best way is to just keep quiet and don't go poking your noses around other people's businesses. china wasn't the only victim of japan. many countries in asia were also hit. you don't see any protests going on in other countries? what i'm saying is just live and let live man.Originally posted by Blueray:No Japanese people died in the protests. No one was raped. Since u oppose the protests, can u suggest a better way to let Japan's leaders know that whitewashing and glorifying of their past altrocities is wrong?
Looking at the Korean, Chinese protests against the japs begets one question. Why are they disliked by all their closest neighbours?
someone said that china covered up sars to save face and i'm very sure that is true. its all about face. so can't china put themselves in japan's shoes? if china had been the agressor in ww2, if china had somehow been the one to have raped women and commited atrocities. NO WAY will they admit to them today either.
it all boils down to the culture and the deep-rooted mentality of the people. and chinese aren't very much different from japanese. the japanese are just being the victims of their own 'scared-to-lose-face' asian culture. but it would be the same for china, u get what i mean? and japan has already 'repented' in the best way by means of war reparations. -
It's all about "face".Bloody useless thing if you ask me...
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There are 2 issues here:Originally posted by oldbreadstinks:covering up was expected and i don't blame china for that since they're not the only ones who were doing the covering up and denial stuff
but i didn't like the fact that they exclude taiwan from the WHO for political reasons
1st :
The 2003 SARs outbreak had exposed a scandal where local province officials under reported the infections and delay in providing updated figures to Beijing. That lack of accountability by local governance gives a false impressions of the actual scale. Beijing finally admit to the epidemic on 20 Apr (see 1st official in SARs report , but by then the damage was already done.
Even hving fired their National director of the Ministry of Health, the mayor of Beijing, and over 100 other health officials for underreporting SARS infection rates, the many, including WHO officials, are still suspicious of China's actual figure. It took them some months, not hving to fight the diease, but to assure international scrutiny on China's reliability.
That is a lesson well learn:
SARS can be fought and controlled, but winning trust is far more difficult.
2nd:
2003 SARS also exposes of how international politics comes into play.
From Malaysia media blaming Singapore exporting SARS, to Japan supporting Taiwan's entry into WHO as an observer. IMO, Beijing knew the intend of such support from Japan, but that didn't stop WHO officials from visting Taiwan during the outbreak and providing update to WHO's report
There is even more interesting insight to why Taiwan still remains outside WHO.
Try this link.
TAIWAN MUST NOT JOIN WHA UNDER PRC-LINKED NAME: MEDICAL EXPERT
2005/04/01 19:10:50 (By S.C. Chang) -
Had China's officials not blame pharmasutical(sp?) compaines in China for spreading panic when SARS 1st appeared in dec of 2002 but instead investigated or did something about it. The virus would have been confined to China. That was the Chinese screw up. Infact they did not do shite until that doctor came out and poured everything out.Originally posted by Gun:There are 2 issues here:
1st :
The 2003 SARs outbreak had exposed a scandal where local province officials under reported the infections and delay in providing updated figures to Beijing. That lack of accountability by local governance gives a false impressions of the actual scale. Beijing finally admit to the epidemic on 20 Apr (see 1st official in SARs report , but by then the damage was already done.
Even hving fired their National director of the Ministry of Health, the mayor of Beijing, and over 100 other health officials for underreporting SARS infection rates, the many, including WHO officials, are still suspicious of China's actual figure. It took them some months, not hving to fight the diease, but to assure international scrutiny on China's reliability.
That is a lesson well learn:
SARS can be fought and controlled, but winning trust is far more difficult.
2nd:
2003 SARS also exposes of how international politics comes into play.
From Malaysia media blaming Singapore exporting SARS, to Japan supporting Taiwan's entry into WHO as an observer. IMO, Beijing knew the intend of such support from Japan, but that didn't stop WHO officials from visting Taiwan during the outbreak and providing update to WHO's report
There is even more interesting insight to why Taiwan still remains outside WHO.
Try this link.
TAIWAN MUST NOT JOIN WHA UNDER PRC-LINKED NAME: MEDICAL EXPERT
2005/04/01 19:10:50 (By S.C. Chang)
This whole thing is very much like Indonasia's "There are no terrorists in our country" claim -
This is a forum and I am entitled to my opinion as much as yours.Originally posted by schrecklichkeit:how can u talk like that?
Anyway, my reply is to ShutterBug's 'encourgement' for the Chinese pple to "user their collective brains", which they had.
So what's wrong about comparing space developement between CHN and JPN ?
Weak weak China you say ?then i ask one question back at you
hmm..are you comparing the no. of White Elephants between the two ?
malaysia got petronas twin towers. tallest building in the world. where is singapore? they also got f1 sepang. singpore leh? -
Why note start another thread to further your arguments in detail ?Originally posted by |-|05|:Had China's officials not blame pharmasutical(sp?) compaines in China for spreading panic when SARS 1st appeared in dec of 2002 *SNIPED*
I think its better we focus on this CHN/JPN issue for content consistency. -
a malaysian i talked to told me that he felt it was a waste of money, the petronas i mean, so if its about wasting tax payers money , we also have our 7 wondersOriginally posted by schrecklichkeit:how can u talk like that?
then i ask one question back at you
malaysia got petronas twin towers. tallest building in the world. where is singapore? they also got f1 sepang. singpore leh?
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[quote]Originally posted by Gun:
[b]
[color=darkred]Any CNN or BBC report Japanese being physically assaulted during recent demo in China ?
Chinese generately are very strained ppl. Even provoked seldom do you see them commiting grotesque violence on fellow human being.
Japanese history, in contrast, is tainted with actions of genocides, beheading practices, chemical warfare on civilians, mass slaughter, human experientation, baby-killings, forced slavary of women and POWs.....
How can you compare a demonstration to a war? is japan the only country guilty of atrocities during war. please be fair when you comment. -
Originally posted by dragg:[quote]Originally posted by Gun:
[b]
Any CNN or BBC report Japanese being physically assaulted during recent demo in China ?
Chinese generately are very strained ppl. Even provoked seldom do you see them commiting grotesque violence on fellow human being.
Japanese history, in contrast, is tainted with actions of genocides, beheading practices, chemical warfare on civilians, mass slaughter, human experientation, baby-killings, forced slavary of women and POWs.....
How can you compare a demonstration to a war? is japan the only country guilty of atrocities during war. please be fair when you comment.
You need to ask yourself 2 questions:
Which is the greater evil ? War or civilian demo ?
Were above atrocities mentioned in current Japanese school textbooks or ever included in Japanese education system ? Is this fair ? -
Originally posted by schrecklichkeit:who think china's demonstration and all that anti-jap thing is wrong?
i for one don't support these actions. its not about the rowdyness.. even the china government is angry with japan and i think they shud just stfu.
i can tell you, china is so furious over the atrocities commited by japan in the war right? this is my answer to them:
atrocities or not, they were brought upon you simply because you are weak. weak. weak. the world is survival of the fittest and you cannot simply live by moral standards and kp when you have been wronged.
and if the roles were reversed. if during world war 2 the chinese people were to invade japan and conquer them. i can bet both of balls that almost the same atrocities will be commited against the japanese people.
rape? confirm. the chinese soldiers would also rape the womenfolk. so don't go around being so bloody self-righteous when you are no different a beast.
simply put, they are sore
Appreciate translation on above news cutting. -
in your dreamsm perhaps. they have never made any reparations to any of the countries/terrorities they invaded in WWII. in fact, i'm not sure if the jap (or the emperor) even use the word surrender in his speech. i'm not talking about the things the signed or any translations. was quite sure i read it somewhere.Originally posted by schrecklichkeit:means of war reparations.
the best way of preventing history from happening again is to know it, acknowledge it, make sure your people know. if almost the whole population have no knowledge of what the country as a whole have done before, how are they to prevent another world war.
from your post, it seems that you're making China as the bogeyman. the way i see it, that role should belong to Japan. like someone mentioned before, all Japan need to do is issue an formal apology for WWII, and most problem will be solved. Japan, to a large measure, own it's current status to the necessity of communism containment policy of the US right after the war. else, more war crimials will be tried and lots of the major conglomerates contributing to the war efforts would have been dismantled. (correct me if i'm wrong)
how would you feel if a guy comes to your place, pick a fight, slaughter you family, was later to be made a riches kid on the block, told the world and his kids a different spin of the story and blame you for starting the whole thing? i'm a singaporean and i do not have the Chinese psyche, or a sense of history, but i won't feel good about it. i suggest you stop thinking as an outsider and start thinking in a Chinese perspective. -
if you can stretch the issue any direction you want then there is no need to discuss.Originally posted by Gun:
You need to ask yourself 2 questions:
Which is the greater evil ? War or civilian demo ?
Were above atrocities mentioned in current Japanese school textbooks or ever included in Japanese education system ? Is this fair ?