china attitude to japan
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then agree all you want.Originally posted by Gun:
dragg,
Suggest u read Fett post one more time and quote "Chinese" within its context. It is referring to nationality of China rather than ethnicity.
I agree with Fett observation that you are more prepared to see China as the bogeyman. Makes it even more revealing when you claim Japanese WW2 behavour towards her Asian communities is anything but racial. Where on-Earth had given u the impression of that ? -
how can the war be racial? chinese are not the only one involved in the war. there are koreans, malays, english, americans and so many more.Originally posted by Gun:
dragg,
Suggest u read Fett post one more time and quote "Chinese" within its context. It is referring to nationality of China rather than ethnicity.
[color=red]Are you saying you can read fett's mind? why dont you let him explain his own posting
I agree with Fett observation that you are more prepared to see China as the bogeyman. Makes it even more revealing when you claim Japanese WW2 behavour towards her Asian communities is anything but racial. Where on-Earth had given u the impression of that ?[/color] -
please read the post before you comment. my posting was meant for fett who asked me to starting thinking in a chinese perspective. that's why i explained it was not a racial war.Originally posted by sgdiehard:You are missing the point. Is is not the race perspective, it is the perspective of those who were invaded by Japan during WW2, the chinese, koreans,....... -
did i add a twist to the bias? you wouldnt be passing such a comment if you have read all my post before jumping to conclusion. but for the sake of it this was my reply to sgdiehard regarding my opinion that china is a threat to asia's stability.Originally posted by robertteh:Your postings on this topic seem to be very forgiving to what the Japanese have done in world war II and the recent spats with the Koreans.
there are always 2 sides to a coin. Everybody is entitled to their opinions. there is no right or wrong opinions because opinions are just opinions. if you think that i seem very forgiving then i can say you are not forgiving too. that's why we are on the opposite side of the fence.
You added a twist to the bias by saying that China is the threat. I don't understand your logic or facts that is all. I will refrain from any other comments and if anything is personal I will withdraw it as I have done in my amended post. Regards to all for a good and objective discussion on this issue. I am happy there are many here will still stand up for their rights if they have been hurt and are being threatened again.
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as for china there is no denying she wants to 'take back' taiwan. the anti-secession law is a good enough proof. a taiwan-china war will destabilised asia, if not the whole world.
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ask yourself if this is a fact or a twist to the bias. -
What had they been teaching u in history class ?Originally posted by dragg:how can the war be racial? chinese are not the only one involved in the war. there are koreans, malays, english, americans and so many more. -
definitely different from yoursOriginally posted by Gun:What had they been teaching u in history class ? -
gun,
the way you word your posting i noticed you take the discussion very personally. -
Let's make it simple:Originally posted by dragg:please read the post before you comment. my posting was meant for fett who asked me to starting thinking in a chinese perspective. that's why i explained it was not a racial war.
1) Why not ask fett to clarify what he/she meant in "Chinese".
Is the post refering to Chinese as a race or nationality.
2) Why not check reason for Japan army were targeting Chinese in SEA during its occupation.
3) Why Korean lang and traditional practices were subgugated during Japanese colonisation ?
4) Why most of today Taiwanese elders are effective in Japanese lang.
Pls convince me that racism did not contribute to Japanese atrocities.
Then convince me why PRC is more of a global/regional security threat than the Nips. -
maybe you can talk to some Jews?Originally posted by dragg:how can the war be racial? chinese are not the only one involved in the war. there are koreans, malays, english, americans and so many more.
and no, in my previous post, race was not an issue. it did not enter my mind until you choose to read it as such. -
then you are saying that was a typo errorOriginally posted by fett:maybe you can talk to some Jews?
and no, in my previous post, race was not an issue. it did not enter my mind until you choose to read it as such. -
i am not trying to convince you of anything and i dont need to. i am not here to win you over or beat you in a discussion. i have contributed enough to the discussion. to each its own way is what i always believe. i rest my case. think it anyway you want. what have we got to lose?Originally posted by Gun:Let's make it simple:
1) Why not ask fett to clarify what he/she meant in "Chinese".
Is the post refering to Chinese as a race or nationality.
2) Why not check reason for Japan army were targeting Chinese in SEA during its occupation.
3) Why Korean lang and traditional practices were subgugated during Japanese colonisation ?
4) Why most of today Taiwanese elders are effective in Japanese lang.
Pls convince me that racism did not contribute to Japanese atrocities.
Then convince me why PRC is more of a global/regional security threat than the Nips. -
huh ?? Is this a passing judgement, a sentimental reply or an objective analysis ?Originally posted by dragg:the way you word your posting i noticed you take the discussion very personally. -
Youy should go and watch the news. The Koreans also protested againt the japanese for whitewashing their history textbooks. Some korean protestors even cut off their fingers as a sign of protest!Go and read yesterday's LianHe WanBao... Some people in Johor also launched a protest against the japs. So what do u mean by you don't see any protests going on in other countries?Originally posted by schrecklichkeit:the best way is to just keep quiet and don't go poking your noses around other people's businesses. china wasn't the only victim of japan. many countries in asia were also hit. you don't see any protests going on in other countries? what i'm saying is just live and let live man.
someone said that china covered up sars to save face and i'm very sure that is true. its all about face. so can't china put themselves in japan's shoes? if china had been the agressor in ww2, if china had somehow been the one to have raped women and commited atrocities. NO WAY will they admit to them today either.
it all boils down to the culture and the deep-rooted mentality of the people. and chinese aren't very much different from japanese. the japanese are just being the victims of their own 'scared-to-lose-face' asian culture. but it would be the same for china, u get what i mean? and japan has already 'repented' in the best way by means of war reparations.
China and Korea should put herself in Japan's shoes? The fact is in the first place China and Korea have never invaded Japan. Nor did they massacre the japanese. Your logic is twisted and incomprehensible.
The Japanese expect others to forgive and forget and move on.... How you expect others to forgive and forget when you are denying what had happened in the first place? -
China has international support from many countries on its one-china stand. Historically, Taiwan has been part of China. Even US has recognized this historical fact. USA is not in favor of Taiwan declaring independence.Originally posted by dragg:did i add a twist to the bias? you wouldnt be passing such a comment if you have read all my post before jumping to conclusion. but for the sake of it this was my reply to sgdiehard regarding my opinion that china is a threat to asia's stability.
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as for china there is no denying she wants to 'take back' taiwan. the anti-secession law is a good enough proof. a taiwan-china war will destabilised asia, if not the whole world.
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ask yourself if this is a fact or a twist to the bias.
So your opinion is not in accord with the historical fact. China is therefore not threatening Taiwan but is merely trying to establish its one-China policy in their own legislative process. Nothing has been done which is not in accordance with international recognization and acceptance of its same one-china stand.
I don't see anyone in the international community can say that China is the aggressor in regard to its formalizing its one-china stand in their parliament. One should be objective even if one has his own opinion. It does not matter if the opinion is right or wrong as that is quite another matter.
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dragg,Originally posted by dragg:i am not trying to convince you of anything and i dont need to. i am not here to win you over or beat you in a discussion. i have contributed enough to the discussion. to each its own way is what i always believe. i rest my case. think it anyway you want. what have we got to lose?
Correction: We hv everything to loose in the event of another major conflict in NE Asia. If one continues gloss over the fact Japan remains unrependent, unapologetic and insensitive to their Asian counterpart, the historical stigma and suspicion will remain. And as long as that air of mistrust exist, the entire region can easily fall into vicious cycle of mutual accusations.
You have failed in your analysis of the true nature of Japan's recent activties.
Even more unbashful, you insist your miss interpretation of fett's post being due to "typo error" eventhough the poster him/her has already clarify what "Chinese" actually meant in the article.
If one cannot even grasp that post content and miss quoted a sentence out of context, then how can one be expected to convincing in one's arguments within this thread ?
Using your Singaporea-educated bkgnd as a benchmark, one need little imagination to understand what Japanese students are missing out in their history lesson. It is one thing to be igorant, but quite another to be educated by revisionist history books. -
my saying'Chinese' was in reference to the Chinese nation, not as a racial entity. and i do make an effort to correct any typo before posting, so there should be a minimal of typing errors.Originally posted by dragg:then you are saying that was a typo error
i like to think i know enough of history to realize some country do not have to balls to admit their mistake. -
heheeheheeeee........
So long as humans are involved, forget admitting MISTAKES!!!
This applies to all races. Period. -
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i bloody well know what these textbooks are about and how japan masks their history. but all this is in the past and japan has every right to their own education. i'm peeved by the chinese only knowing how to bear grudges. come on, there are so MANY grudges the whole world can bear against china too. and i don't think japan simply admitting to their mistake will solve the probelm. such demonstrations will happen in the future even if japan admits (they are not denying)
its not as if they are PROMOTING the same atrocities they did. and glorifying war is nothing wrong. don't come up to me and brag about peace because there can never be peace on earth. >>
Care to tell us what are the MANY grudges the whole world can bear against China and who are not denying such demo will happen in the future even if Japan admits?
Glorifying war may not be anything seriously wrong but distorting facts is morally wrong:
The Independent
Textbook war escalates as China and Korea vent their fury at Japanese rewriting of history
By David McNeill in Seoul
11 Apr 2005
The most contentious history text removes all references to the comfort women and suggests that Korea and China invited or benefited from the Japanese occupation. A civics text claims jurisdiction over a clump of rocks called Takeshima (in Korean, Tokdo) that Korea has held since 1945.
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Is everything really over?
The New York Times
Tokyo Protests Anti-Japan Rallies in China
By NORIMITSU ONISHI
Published: April 11, 2005
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Under Mr. Ishihara, whose views were regarded as extremist only a few years ago but are now mainstream, the Tokyo metropolitan government has for the second year punished teachers who refused to stand and sing "Kimigayo," the national anthem, a symbol of militarism to many inside and outside the country, or refused to force their students to do so. During this spring's graduation ceremonies, 53 such teachers were punished.
In another telling sign of Japan's growing nationalism, Green Day, now celebrated on April 29, will almost certainly be renamed "Showa Day" soon to commemorate the birthday of the late Emperor Hirohito, who led Japan during its conquest of Asia and who is a revered symbol of Japanese rightists.
The previously named Emperor's Day was changed to Green Day in 1989, after Hirohito's death, partly in consideration of Asian sensitivities. Two attempts in the last five years to rename the holiday for Hirohito failed.
TOKYO, April 10 - Japan lodged a formal protest against China on Sunday after violent anti-Japanese demonstrations in Beijing, even as marches in front of Japanese government offices and businesses widened to southern China.
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But without the a-bombs do you think the Japanese would stop? -
i dunno about him but what i learnt was , the jipoonese were brutal towards chinese people because they had a shitty time in china and chinese in SEA were also contributing to the war effort in chinaOriginally posted by Gun:What had they been teaching u in history class ?
it looks like a objective analysis that is disagreeable with you?Originally posted by Gun:huh ?? Is this a passing judgement, a sentimental reply or an objective analysis ?
regarding stablity of the region , i actually feel that a strong china would benefit the region where stablity is concerned just like america the "big brother" but chances are we won't like their behaviour , judging from what we're are already getting now -
the germans did apologize to countries they invaded in WWII. I donÂ’t see why canÂ’t the japanese do the same?Originally posted by ShutterBug:heheeheheeeee........
So long as humans are involved, forget admitting MISTAKES!!!
This applies to all races. Period. -
The Japanese government should learn a thing or two from the Germans.
I don't think the atrocities committed by the Germans were any less than those committed by the Japanese. Whilst Japan still has great difficulties coming to terms with her war-time brutality, Germany has shown true contrition and has moved on. Far from covering up their crime, the Germans have not only apologized, but have instituted legislation to prevent such atrocities from ever being committed again. Every German child is taught the errors committed by their fore-fathers and a visit to the Holocaust museum is considered a must of a student's education. I was impressed during my previous to Germany: the neo-Nazis who tried to disrupt the ceremonies commemorating the Nazi death camps were overwhelmingly criticized and ostracized by mainstream Germans. Everywhere I went, I met Germans who reassured me that 'those punks' do not represent Germany but rather the shame of German society. With such sentiments, people in Europe are not at all worried that another Hitler might once again come up from among their ranks.
Can Asian nations be certain that Japan will not return to her old ways? It is not a matter of apologizing for the sins of long-forgotten ancestors. It is important that Japan should fully come to terms with her war-time responsibility in order to reassure her neighbours that she has indeed changed. If Japanese children are not aware of the cruelty and brutality of their past leaders, how can we be confident of a benign Japan in future?
That said, it is not in the interest of China to allow these protests to get out of hand. It is a difficult balancing act to condemn Japan on one hand and yet place a restraining hand upon the protests that may turn into disorder. We don't have that problem. We are not allowed to demonstrate...period. -
japs are well mannared during work and social life but a beast during sex. they say its due to all the formalities they hv to perform during the day. what a culture
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very well said, to the point and questions asked deserve an answer from those who are siding with Japan.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:The Japanese government should learn a thing or two from the Germans.
I don't think the atrocities committed by the Germans were any less than those committed by the Japanese. Whilst Japan still has great difficulties coming to terms with her war-time brutality, Germany has shown true contrition and has moved on. Far from covering up their crime, the Germans have not only apologized, but have instituted legislation to prevent such atrocities from ever being committed again. Every German child is taught the errors committed by their fore-fathers and a visit to the Holocaust museum is considered a must of a student's education. I was impressed during my previous to Germany: the neo-Nazis who tried to disrupt the ceremonies commemorating the Nazi death camps were overwhelmingly criticized and ostracized by mainstream Germans. Everywhere I went, I met Germans who reassured me that 'those punks' do not represent Germany but rather the shame of German society. With such sentiments, people in Europe are not at all worried that another Hitler might once again come up from among their ranks.
Can Asian nations be certain that Japan will not return to her old ways? It is not a matter of apologizing for the sins of long-forgotten ancestors. It is important that Japan should fully come to terms with her war-time responsibility in order to reassure her neighbours that she has indeed changed. If Japanese children are not aware of the cruelty and brutality of their past leaders, how can we be confident of a benign Japan in future?
That said, it is not in the interest of China to allow these protests to get out of hand. It is a difficult balancing act to condemn Japan on one hand and yet place a restraining hand upon the protests that may turn into disorder. We don't have that problem. We are not allowed to demonstrate...period. -
I think the main problem is the US, the country that defeated Japan, failed to make Japan apologise for the war. Without a formal apology, Japan won't admit that she had done any wrong. She thus contiues to whitewash history. There are also signs that she is re- militarizing.
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this i totally agree. they are sadistic.Originally posted by phanta5y:japs are well mannared during work and social life but a beast during sex. they say its due to all the formalities they hv to perform during the day. what a culture