Twins petition to free death row Dad
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Without the mandatory death sentence, don't you think the rate of drug trafficking will be even higher than what it is now?Originally posted by pkchukiss:The deterrance effect desired by the PAP administration in employing the death penalty for drug trafficking is lacking, as we can see from the persistent number of people committing the same offence, so unless they are taking satisfaction in taking the lives of people, maybe we should start re-examining the death penalty. -
These fellas deserved to die, no doubt about that.Originally posted by crazy monkey:oh issit ? how abt monsters like anthony ler and adrian lim ?
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Actually if the reports are to be believed, the circumstances surrounding these high-society "elites" were different.. the mass of drugs trafficked by them was less than the stipulated amount for the death sentence to be passed.Originally posted by robertteh:If the lawmakers were so righteous, why do we see judges trying to gerrymandeer the sentencing for elite or high-society drug offenders who are clearly more leniently treated than the routine cases based on circumstances etc.
But i do agree that there's something fishy in that these fellas were conveniently found to be trafficking less than the required amount for the death sentence to be warranted. I suspect that it may be more than a coincidence that these fellas happened to be high-society 'elites' as well.
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Correct. There exists a deterrent factor for the more knowledgeable spectrum of the society, and less people are willing to take up smuggling as a job.Originally posted by cornyfish2000:Without the mandatory death sentence, don't you think the rate of drug trafficking will be even higher than what it is now?
However, we must also realise that the majority of society are ignorant about this mandatory death sentence, and are often pushed by dire straits towards taking it up. Sentencing people from this group to death has no deterrent effect because they simply would not know at all, and only serves to antagonise the immediate family of the person.
To them, this law might just be as obscure as the legal language that the SAF Act contains, and that means a waste of a human life. -
We are now getting to nearer to an important point of this topic. Should death penalty be applied only to the professional hardcore smugglers and sydicate masters (we should try our very best to crack the sydicate or get to the master) while the unwittingly involved due to sheer financial straits only penalised by life sentence at the most.Originally posted by pkchukiss:Correct. There exists a deterrent factor for the more knowledgeable spectrum of the society, and less people are willing to take up smuggling as a job.
However, we must also realise that the majority of society are ignorant about this mandatory death sentence, and are often pushed by dire straits towards taking it up. Sentencing people from this group to death has no deterrent effect because they simply would not know at all, and only serves to antagonise the immediate family of the person.
To them, this law might just be as obscure as the legal language that the SAF Act contains, and that means a waste of a human life.
The lawmakers should try to review both: (1) Death Sentence for recalcitrants (Non-recalcitrant - reduced to life akin to manslaughter for less than murder)
(2) Review the definition of serious or hard drugs attracting death penalty to exclude less dangerous types based on new research medical evidences.
I look forward to all comments and contributions from all.
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more people taking chances means more arrested means more convicted means more prison required means govt wont agree!!Originally posted by cornyfish2000:Hmm.. how about making them work in prison, force them to earn their food, lodgings and security? -
i am not so sure about the law but i guess it has something to do with the role of the offender at the time of the offence. e.g. dealer, trafficker, pusher, addict etc
not all will get death. and the type of drugs also come into play. -
hmmm.. as far as i understand, anyone found to have in his possession more than 15g of heroin or 500g of cannabis will be deemed to be trafficking in that particular drug and will be given the mandatory death sentence.Originally posted by dragg:i am not so sure about the law but i guess it has something to do with the role of the offender at the time of the offence. e.g. dealer, trafficker, pusher, addict etc
not all will get death. and the type of drugs also come into play.
I think the respective limits are set such that they are far in excess of what a drug addict can possibly consume. Thus anyone with more than the stipulated amount is assumed to be trafficking, with no exceptions allowed. -
The law must be applied fairly to all, regardless of circumstances. I have sympathy for the two boys but I feel the law must run its course.
However, I do agree that there appears to be a hint of leniency given to the 'elite classes' in recent cases. If that is true, it is abhorent. Whether capital punishment for any crime should have a place in a civilized society is a matter for debate but I have the impression that Singaporeans are generally in favour of it. Unless we have a free and open debate (which is not quite possible in Singapore), we can never be sure.
What is lacking, however, is investigation into the social reasons behind drug offences. The government seems to think they have discharged their responsibility by successfully prosecuting a drug pusher and sentencing him to death. But what about preventing the disadvantaged children of the criminal from growing up to become criminals themselves? Will the down and out of society beget their own in a vicious cycle? Perhaps we have focused too much on the elite and have become myopic to those that have fallen by the wayside. -
i am one who believes in 'you reap what you sow'.
everywhere in the world, however rich the country, there are crimes and there are exploitations. there are many in need of help. govt come up with different policies to help. but there is only so much any govt can do.
there are people borned with 'disadvantages' but grew up and turn out just fine. people have to take responsibility for what they do. -
Put them for good meaning to hang them !Originally posted by pkchukiss:The deterrance effect desired by the PAP administration in employing the death penalty for drug trafficking is lacking, as we can see from the persistent number of people committing the same offence, so unless they are taking satisfaction in taking the lives of people, maybe we should start re-examining the death penalty.
Of course it's a perfect idea. If everyone just think lock up. EATING FREE RICE ! COme out another hero. Go and try to commit crime again. A lot of them will be doing that ! Everyday !
I tell you. I will never vote for SDP because they want to put away death sentense. So......... ask DR CHEE go and BYE ! They got less than 10% of the vote. Hahahah!!!!!!!!! Meaning only monkeys vote them ! -
Knowledge. Everyone know it's death to traffic drugs. If they one also don't know ? They must have the brain of a chicken ? Kill chicken not a crime leh. So........ hang him also not a crime loh. SO hang him ! Don't waste time ! Ask him to join the club.Originally posted by pkchukiss:Correct. There exists a deterrent factor for the more knowledgeable spectrum of the society, and less people are willing to take up smuggling as a job.
However, we must also realise that the majority of society are ignorant about this mandatory death sentence, and are often pushed by dire straits towards taking it up. Sentencing people from this group to death has no deterrent effect because they simply would not know at all, and only serves to antagonise the immediate family of the person.
To them, this law might just be as obscure as the legal language that the SAF Act contains, and that means a waste of a human life. -
The pt is tat the expat was only jailed 8 mths for smuggling pot into S'pore and then consuming for pleasure. This poor local Indian smuggle drugs not because for his pleasure but because he has had no choice.Originally posted by dragg:think about what drugs will do to the average singaporean. this point alone is enough to justify that these people deserves to be put away for good.
Yes smuggling drugs is bad and always be bad. But we must be smart about it and evaluate one case on a case-by-case basis. I'd feel two things:
1) Make the system equal. if you wanna execute the death penalty, then apply to both locals and expats, ignoring the poor/rich status of that offender. No double standards shd be applied.
2) Evaluate a drug smuggling case on a case-by-case basis and then set a fair sentence once he's found to be gulity. In which case, these 14 yr old teens will still have a father- albeit one that is gonna be in jail for a long time.
Whereas, local and foreign drug smugglers who are found to be smuggling for sheer profit and pleasure will be executed after a free and fair trial where the defendants will have access to their lawyers. -
sentencing is up to individual judge. i have no comment on that.
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I am grateful that such blatant disregard for human rights isn't rampant in our society. Drug traffickers are human too, and they should be accorded basic rights no matter their crime.Originally posted by skyline63:Knowledge. Everyone know it's death to traffic drugs. If they one also don't know ? They must have the brain of a chicken ? Kill chicken not a crime leh. So........ hang him also not a crime loh. SO hang him ! Don't waste time ! Ask him to join the club.
I am not surprised if the majority of the lower segments of the economy are unaware of the mandatory death sentence: their concerns would be making ends meet, not scrutinising the newspapers for articles of any "applicable drug laws".
I say that at the very least, the death penalty should be made [B]non-mandatory[/B] for drug trafficking: the offender's rationale should be as important as their intention. A case by case deliberation would be more humane than the blanket application of the death sentence that we are having now. -
I think it's really not easy being the judge especially in cases involving "elites" and "white horses"... Knowing very well that these fellas are equally guilty as the poor Indian drug trafficker condemned to the gallows yet forced to let these chaps off with a light sentence, due to an instruction over the telephone from the Ministry.
Singapore is still leagues away from the US system in which the judiciary is truly independent of the Executive and the Legislature. US judges have no qualms about overturning laws passed and overruling unreasonable decisions made by the US governors and even the President.. whereas in Singapore, any self-righteous judge who insists on following his conscience will probably have his head lobbed off and fed to the horses. -
Go back to Sammyboy.We don't take kindly to your ilk here.There is a place for reasoned and civil discussion and there is a place for those with words like yours.Go play in the trash can outside.And please clean it up when you are done like a good boy.Originally posted by skyline63:Put them for good meaning to hang them !
Of course it's a perfect idea. If everyone just think lock up. EATING FREE RICE ! COme out another hero. Go and try to commit crime again. A lot of them will be doing that ! Everyday !
I tell you. I will never vote for SDP because they want to put away death sentense. So......... ask DR CHEE go and BYE ! They got less than 10% of the vote. Hahahah!!!!!!!!! Meaning only monkeys vote them ! -
The US system have its problems too.Originally posted by cornyfish2000:I think it's really not easy being the judge especially in cases involving "elites" and "white horses"... Knowing very well that these fellas are equally guilty as the poor Indian drug trafficker condemned to the gallows yet forced to let these chaps off with a light sentence, due to an instruction over the telephone from the Ministry.
that is just speculation on your part. there is no proof to support your statement.
Singapore is still leagues away from the US system in which the judiciary is truly independent of the Executive and the Legislature. US judges have no qualms about overturning laws passed and overruling unreasonable decisions made by the US governors and even the President.. whereas in Singapore, any self-righteous judge who insists on following his conscience will probably have his head lobbed off and fed to the horses. -
LazerLordz
YA ya ya ........... Then you go and hang for his father loh. His father freed and you get hang. Isn't it good ? -
STFU.Ignorant narrow-minded doofus.Originally posted by skyline63:LazerLordz
YA ya ya ........... Then you go and hang for his father loh. His father freed and you get hang. Isn't it good ? -
President rejects clemency for condemned former athlete
Agence France Presse
April 26, 2005
SINGAPORE
President S.R. Nathan has rejected an appeal to save the life of a convicted drug smuggler at the centre of a renewed campaign to abolish the death penalty here, the prisoner's lawyer said Tuesday, April 26.
Shanmugam Murugesu, 38, a former star athlete who was convicted of trying to import 1029.8 grams (36 ounces) of cannabis, is expected to be hanged at Changi Prison in three weeks' time, his lawyer, M. Ravi, said.
"I just got a letter from the Istana (the presidential office) dated April 22nd," Ravi told AFP.
The letter said that the president "after due consideration of the petition and on the advice of the cabinet had decided that the sentence of death should stand," according to Ravi.
Murugesu, who was arrested at a checkpoint while coming from Malaysia on August 29, 2003, was convicted and sentenced to death by the High Court in April last year.
Civil rights activists in Singapore are using Murugesu's case to mount a renewed campaign to abolish the death penalty in the affluent island-republic, where voices of dissent against the government are rarely heard.
Human rights group Amnesty International in a report last year singled out Singapore for executing more people than any other country relative to its population and renewed calls for it to abolish the death penalty.
Sinapan Samydorai, executive director of the Think Centre civil rights group, said there were currently eight other people on death row in Singapore.
In their appeal, the activists had highlighted the fact that Murugesu had served in the armed forces for eight years and represented the country in the 1995 World Championship Jetski Finals in the United States.
On the advice of Murugesu's lawyer, his twin sons, now aged 14 and living with their grandmother, had gone on a public campaign to save their father by distributing leaflets calling on people to write directly to the president. -
everyone got a choice. what is no choice. he can choose to do it or don't.Originally posted by timothytsgsg:The pt is tat the expat was only jailed 8 mths for smuggling pot into S'pore and then consuming for pleasure. This poor local Indian smuggle drugs not because for his pleasure but because he has had no choice.
Yes smuggling drugs is bad and always be bad. But we must be smart about it and evaluate one case on a case-by-case basis. I'd feel two things:
1) Make the system equal. if you wanna execute the death penalty, then apply to both locals and expats, ignoring the poor/rich status of that offender. No double standards shd be applied.
2) Evaluate a drug smuggling case on a case-by-case basis and then set a fair sentence once he's found to be gulity. In which case, these 14 yr old teens will still have a father- albeit one that is gonna be in jail for a long time.
Whereas, local and foreign drug smugglers who are found to be smuggling for sheer profit and pleasure will be executed after a free and fair trial where the defendants will have access to their lawyers.
since he did it, he must be prepared to accept the consequences.
he got all his limbs n a sound mind, he n his family won't starve to death in singapore, he just choosing the easiest way to earn money. -
that's a waste of taxpayer money!!Originally posted by pkchukiss:I am grateful that such blatant disregard for human rights isn't rampant in our society. Drug traffickers are human too, and they should be accorded basic rights no matter their crime.
I am not surprised if the majority of the lower segments of the economy are unaware of the mandatory death sentence: their concerns would be making ends meet, not scrutinising the newspapers for articles of any "applicable drug laws".
I say that at the very least, the death penalty should be made [B]non-mandatory[/B] for drug trafficking: the offender's rationale should be as important as their intention. A case by case deliberation would be more humane than the blanket application of the death sentence that we are having now. -
Not a waste of taxpayer money if we become more human as a result.Certain things are not quantifiable in dollars and cents.We are all living creatures with souls, not economic units that can be culled if it goes haywire.Originally posted by Kenashi:that's a waste of taxpayer money!!
Who gave us our souls?Man?The MIW?No.
Some higher power. -
Originally posted by pkchukiss:I am grateful that such blatant disregard for human rights isn't rampant in our society. Drug traffickers are human too, and they should be accorded basic rights no matter their crime.
the law is set as such. the drug traffickers made the choice when he committed the crime. who can he blame?
I am not surprised if the majority of the lower segments of the economy are unaware of the mandatory death sentence: their concerns would be making ends meet, not scrutinising the newspapers for articles of any "applicable drug laws".
there are many ways to make ends meet. he can be a burglar or snatch thief or whatnot. no death sentence. why traffick drugs? do you believe the uneducated dont know that drug trafficking in singapore is punishable by death? even people in other countries know it.
I say that at the very least, the death penalty should be made [B]non-mandatory[/B] for drug trafficking: the offender's rationale should be as important as their intention. A case by case deliberation would be more humane than the blanket application of the death sentence that we are having now.
what rationale can there be? make ends meet at the expense of other people.