"Credibility at stake" - SM Goh
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What the hell is he talking about????? What bloody credibility do they have?
TODAY papers quoted him saying that one reason he voted for the casino:
...it took a lot of time and effort for the 13 bidders - all well-known global players - to submit 19 proposals.
"Not to proceed to the next stage now implies that the proposals are without merit, which can not be so.
We will seem incapable of making rational decisions. We will be regarded as timid and not being serious about Remaking Singapore. We will seen as lacking in boldness in mapping Singapore's future in a fast-shanging world."
The damn PAP already said that they don't give 2 sh*ts what Singaporeans think when they said they can't let popular decision sway them... but they care what 13 companies, that are only out to make money, think!????!?!?!??????
...and to use THIS as a stupid reason to go pro-casino!? For freaking heaven's sake!!! They put the damn request for proposals out I'm sure, so now he uses the fact that proposals came in as an excuse to have the damn casino???????
How long are they going to keep treating Singaporeans as ignorant fools??? -
until the 3rd or 4th generation emperor of the Lee dynasty ascends the throne?
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until Singaporeans muster up the courage to vote for the opposition(even if said candidate is wearing singlet and shorts and speaks like a durian seller) as a way of sending a message to the ruling party!
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Imo, not entirely nonsense, but not entirely logical too. Bowing to public pressure not to proceed would not, imo, imply that the proposals were w/o merit. What it would imply is that the Government has jumped the gun.Originally posted by Bloop...:What the hell is he talking about????? What bloody credibility do they have?
TODAY papers quoted him saying that one reason he voted for the casino:
...it took a lot of time and effort for the 13 bidders - all well-known global players - to submit 19 proposals.
"Not to proceed to the next stage now implies that the proposals are without merit, which can not be so.
We will seem incapable of making rational decisions. We will be regarded as timid and not being serious about Remaking Singapore. We will seen as lacking in boldness in mapping Singapore's future in a fast-shanging world."
Further, we are talking big money here. It is therefore well worth the efforts of the firms to submit proposals even if there is a real risk that the whole thing will fall through. IMO, even if non of the proposals are given the OK, these companies will come running back the next time you flash money at them.
Note though that this does not mean that i am opposed to the opening of the casino. That is another issue altogether. -
I am not saying that the study of casino and debates was not thorough. However, I notice that there has been a lack of objective decision making process in this instance as it was one mainly based on presentations by casino operators.
We should have sufficient talents among our leaders who no doubt should know that by inviting casino operators to give presentation we will be depriving of all an objective assessments of relevant issues.
After all our leaders should know that people are quite divided on this matter. So why not study the pros and cons more objectively without getting the casino operators in first. Let all study objectively : (1) how many jobs will indeed will be created (2) potential job losses due to negative impacts on the economy and (3) social problems as well.
We have missed a chance to balance all factors and the long-term potential job losses due to negative impacts on works and businesses and all the social problems to be created.
By proceeding the decision making in the manner as has happened, it looks like the whole decision has been fixed. The so-called job creations are merely promises. The job losses due to negative impact were overlooked and not quantified.
At this juncture, what we really need is for the new PM to first come up with an overall economic master plan to provide some useful practical direction to upgrade the economy. It is quite incorrect to assume in the absence of such a plan like what MM Lee has said in parliamnent: e.g. "Without casino, we would be worse off" or "We will send the wrong message to our investors that we are a dead place".
So, the debates to me have been one-sided with underlying assumptions of MM Lee failing to be properly studied or countered by an objective study.
Again, all that we are seeing again is the same thing: the leaders telling us they will make all the decisions based on their own perspnal assumptions and guessworks while all the "yes" men too afraid to disagree or put up proper arguments on impacts or what alternatives to improve our economic competitiveness.
As the decision has been made to build casino, what is there for people to disagree now. We have to bear with their personal assumptions that casino can create 35,000 jobs and do not know what job losses and social problems will be created in the long term. We have heard our leaders emphasising their calibre to make decisions decision. To me this is a rather slip-shod and one-sided study.
It is incorrect for them to make frightening economic assumptions. Why not provide all with new economic directions and take actions to create competitiveness? Is it too much work or too difficult to do so? Good leaders should know how to apply Sun Sze art of war to leverage our strengths and counter potential weaknesses. Sad that this is not done so far.
Even with a casino, what make our dear leaders so sure that we will succeed. Tourists will not just come become of casino. More has to be done. They should bear with any problems caused due to lack of objective study in this instance. It has been too one-sided in favor of casino.
Of course it is too late to disagree now as the casino decision is water under the bridge. -
Credibility, my a$$. I've read several management books, not least one written by Mr. Jack Welch, retired CEO & Chairman of General Electric and what the PAP is doing is definately not a good sign of proper management, leadership and candor(honesty).
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The issue long decide oredi, before they let it out..
starting PM oredi stressed final decision is with the gov..
Letting pple talk/debate and that commitee thingy is so you have have the illusion that the Gov's being democratic ..
It's their usual modus operandi..
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Originally posted by YingJun KorKor:
Illusion? For fooling foreigners? Haha... most Singaporeans are too 'disillusioned' to have any illusion about democracy in Singapore. They are more concerned about bread-and-butter issues and don't really care if the government wants to engage the people in active discussion.
The issue long decide oredi, before they let it out..
starting PM oredi stressed final decision is with the gov..
Letting pple talk/debate and that commitee thingy is so you
have the illusion that the Gov's being democratic ..
Does anybody remember this Today article? Excerpts below:
http://www.todayonline.com/articles/37866.asp
"Opinion was divided amongst the six MPs who gave their take on the plans for a casino. Views ranged from a willing bet on the unknown, to calls for a cautious approach, suggestions for a free vote in Parliament, and even a binding nationwide referendum.
Replied Mr Lee: 'The Government cannot govern by referendum. The casino is not an issue of national survival or sovereignty that deserves to be settled by a referendum. Nor is it an issue of conscience or fundamental principle like abortion or organ transplantation, because we already have many forms of legal gambling in Singapore.'
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Mr Tan Soo Khoon's call for a lifting of the Party Whip for a free vote in Parliament was also rejected."
The people could say all they want in the media during active discussions with the government. The government will just nod, "Hm. Point taken." and do whatever they wanted to do in the first place, anyway. -
it time for us to do the talking during the next GE. ask ourselves, who vote for the current govt. who sent them the ultimate approval when they won the last GE by the biggest margin. if we need some voices of ojection.opposition has to go in.
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True, if we actually get to vote in the first place! At every election I get to go to Malaysia for a short break...Why? Not because I don't want to vote but because I never get a chance to vote with all these walkovers!
The irony is that in the UK, I get to vote in the coming British elections as a citizen of the Commonwealth!! -
I support the casino plan,but what i am afraid is after the setup of casino,most of the 35000 job vacancies will be "reserve" to "foreigners" instead of "locals"........and also,the $100 admission fees is not practical.
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Someone questioned in the ST Forum today that she couldn't see the
justification for 2 casinos that create 35,000 jobs
but put 55,000 (110,000 for 2 casinos?) at risks.
I agree.
Next time at GE, never, never sign and give away a blank cheque book.
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He is talking about PAP cannot come up with new ideas already. THey are gone. Their business is gone. Their ideas is gone. Only open gambling den is the answer to jobs. All become gamble king and queen. But how come they are paid so much fat salary ?
Run out of ideas then cut salary loh ! -
Really?Hmm..I've some issues with dear Tony Blair myself..Originally posted by oxford mushroom:True, if we actually get to vote in the first place! At every election I get to go to Malaysia for a short break...Why? Not because I don't want to vote but because I never get a chance to vote with all these walkovers!
The irony is that in the UK, I get to vote in the coming British elections as a citizen of the Commonwealth!!
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Those proposals are conceptual ones.If they are so thin-skinned,they should have make a decision on the casino issue before calling for the conceptual proposals.
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What issues? Are you saying that if you could vote, you wouldn't go for Mr. Blair?Originally posted by LazerLordz:Really?Hmm..I've some issues with dear Tony Blair myself.. -
Blair as a person is still miles better than any of our PAP ministers. Okie, Blair lied abt the Iraqi war and all that but he still retains Gordon Brown.
I like Gordon Brown- I think he wud be a great UK PM. -
$, it corrupts, it blinds and it binds...$ is all it matters, other things can sweep under the massive red carpet
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Haha... Gordon Brown seems to be very popular, probably because he appears to have done a good job with the economy. What's funny though is that the Conservatives, the largest opposition party, actually tried to gain support through the tag line "Vote Blair, Get Brown"! What a cock up!Originally posted by timothytsgsg:Blair as a person is still miles better than any of our PAP ministers. Okie, Blair lied abt the Iraqi war and all that but he still retains Gordon Brown.
I like Gordon Brown- I think he wud be a great UK PM.
Personally, i think Blair's has done a pretty good job. Re the iraq war, it is very hard to tell who is telling the truth. Someone might very well try to prosecute Blair for war crimes and so i'd be content to let the courts deal with that issue. -
Speaking of credibility, the leaders have been talking about plan to increase the population from 1990s but failed. The last year of the dragon saw the highest birth then population growth came back down.
Then came the double whammy to the population growth in the form of migration of the educated due to erroneous elitist education policy.
Thousands are migrating every year to Australia, USA, Canada, even China ..Net population will continue to be insignificantly small.
The post-war baby boomers who started businesses and set up factories during the 1970s and 1980s are retiring at 55-60 in large number from 2001 to 2006. These founding entrepreneurs were not being helped due to high-cost, pro-foreign business policies and government going into businesses to compete against them. Therefore the economy is going to slow down further.
Past economic strategy was to (1) set up Jurong to industrialise --1960s (2) graduate from labor-intensive to capital-intensive --1970s (3) upgrade to value-add sectors -- 1980s.
The economy since 1980s were heavily dependent on foreign investments without pursuit of any parallel plan to build own capabilities. One hundred and one reasons will be given not to help the locals and SMEs. Under such short-sighted economic planning, any value-adding plans would only be nothing but ad hoc or random.
Yet, without an overall economic master plan to leverage our strengths and counter our weaknesses, the economy is basically directionless. The local businesses are suffering and suffering without much help from the government.
As I see it, Singapore past policies are causing the economy to flounder badly during the last two recessions. Other Asian economies are recovering faster than our economy. The standard of living of the people are dropping back to the 1970s due to unemployments, lower salaries and asset bubble bursts.
South Korea has gone through the same Asian Financial crisis and recessions. It has come up on top with better manufacturing growths. Its own MNCs are churning out large number of world-beating products and keeping up the economic race.
The local businesses are dying and MNCs are progressively moving out to less costly destinations.
Leaders are not consistent and focused in implementing a creative economic master plan to provide directions to help all to compete in world market. They are truly running out of ideas despite all the claims of their own talents.
The above-stated reasons i.e. loss of economic planning strategy etc, are precisely why we need to go for increasing the population growth, more participation by youths in politics etc. If the fundamental errors as posted are not corrected our leaders will have to do all the unnecessary things like trying to get more babies or set up a casino.
Where is the true leadership and talents among them to grow or nurture more entrepreneurs or overcome our loss of economic competitiveness due to high costs created by them or simply lack of ideas.
Now that the economy is having a "back to the black" correction in 2004 after two prolonged recessions of 1996-1999 and 2001-2003, the leaders will be quick to claim credit for the recovery when actually such a recovery is the cyclical up-and-down of world economy.
More ideas are needed to revive the present economy. The first task is to come up with a vibrant economic master plan and produce a strong team to carry out the plan if Singaporeans are to maintain their asset values or earn a better living.
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it was all laid out from the start.. this obviously shows that the govt already decided on a no way back road to get the IRs.. without giving any hoots to wat the opinions are from the feedback.
then now this cedibility at stake speech.. if it was done in secrecy with a lot of other strategic projects.. it wont have been so bad to now say its too late to take it back. -
Hm.... creditability...
It takes a lot of time for the various M to talk about the economy is improving... The 35,000 jobs are coming... we will have a buffet i.o porridge..
Let's hope this is creditable... Sigh..... As for me, porridge is gd enough...
Buffet too rich for me... heart disease, liver diseases etc... not so gd lah.. -
The leaders have forgotten how to work the economy any more. At one time, they keep to their words and get elected with overwhelming majority.Originally posted by Ecxentrique:it was all laid out from the start.. this obviously shows that the govt already decided on a no way back road to get the IRs.. without giving any hoots to wat the opinions are from the feedback.
then now this cedibility at stake speech.. if it was done in secrecy with a lot of other strategic projects.. it wont have been so bad to now say its too late to take it back.
After that something has gone wrong with their planning and implementation. May be life has become too secured and comfortable for them so there is no need to try harder.
Why ? Because the way they change the electoral system etc, they are sure to be elected no matter how they work - no difference. So, why try so hard huh.
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which is precisely why it is important in the next GE to vote in opposition members. having more opposition members in parliament won't 'demolish' the casinos that are to be built. instead, they would make a louder noise in challenging the ruling party to ensure the jobs and benefits of the casinos are given back to us commonfolk.Originally posted by drawer:I support the casino plan,but what i am afraid is after the setup of casino,most of the 35000 job vacancies will be "reserve" to "foreigners" instead of "locals"........and also,the $100 admission fees is not practical. -
Ha...Freudian slip...so he confirms what we had suspected all along. This talk about public consultation before making the decision is all a farce. Make a big show about public consultation...and invite proposals for the casino. If the response is poor, they can say that they will not proceed 'cos they are sensitive to public sentiments. If the response is good, as it is, they say they have to proceed or lose credibility.Originally posted by Bloop...:What the hell is he talking about????? What bloody credibility do they have?
TODAY papers quoted him saying that one reason he voted for the casino:
...it took a lot of time and effort for the 13 bidders - all well-known global players - to submit 19 proposals.
"Not to proceed to the next stage now implies that the proposals are without merit, which can not be so.
We will seem incapable of making rational decisions. We will be regarded as timid and not being serious about Remaking Singapore. We will seen as lacking in boldness in mapping Singapore's future in a fast-shanging world."
The damn PAP already said that they don't give 2 sh*ts what Singaporeans think when they said they can't let popular decision sway them... but they care what 13 companies, that are only out to make money, think!????!?!?!??????
...and to use THIS as a stupid reason to go pro-casino!? For freaking heaven's sake!!! They put the damn request for proposals out I'm sure, so now he uses the fact that proposals came in as an excuse to have the damn casino???????
How long are they going to keep treating Singaporeans as ignorant fools???
The government is losing credibility in the eys of Singaporeans