Local lose to foreign degree holder even holding same cert !
-
That the way of Singapore. The government you voted for ! And they give so many foriegn so call talent jobs. Till the local are jobless for months. So ........ when a country don't protect you. Why be a citizen of Singapore ? Because you are born here and you don't know what is all about.
Blame the government PAP will not help. Because you foolish vote for them.
Blame yourself is just fine. Because you vote them thinking there is no other party to vote. You problem if you are jobless. Your problem if you have debts ! Your problem if you are a citizen of Singapore ! So what if you died. It's still none of my business.
Hang yourself is a the best answer. For you have created your own doom.
Who care about your death ? When your body can be donated to foreign Indonesia Chinese, Kuwait, Arabs, Rich people who need your kidney, EYES, Heart, LIVER, To come to Singapore and do operation ? Singapore can earn more money when a citizen died in Singapore. Your body can be giving to them. Foriegn get first class treatment and never have to wait on the waiting list like Singapore citizen.
Best in the world. You are slave in Singapore. Serve your army and died for your country. DO what you can do for your country. Don't ask what country can do for you. You are a slave to the Singapore so never ask what the country can do for you. Study hard and work. It's your life that never taught by your teachers.
Your teachers also face the same problem. No jobs and they have be a Teacher. Because their jobs have been giving to foriegn talent.
Don't blame the PAP. You vote for them. If you out of job. Don't blame the PAP. Blame yourself. Why ? I don't know. You tell me ! -
kp la skyline63.... not happy with singapore den get the fuk outta here. no one asking you to stay in singapore... since you so capable,go other countries la PCB... your father mother uncle auntie never vote PAP? never scold them?
-
because nus and ntu produces mostly bookworms.
if they're really so good, why do you think the gov sends people elsewhere instead of nus and ntu? -
since cant get job in sg, then go oversea and steal other ppl job lor...
-
hahaha done that and the feeling is great!!!!Originally posted by BrUtUs:since cant get job in sg, then go oversea and steal other ppl job lor...
-
-
I agree with u ,skyline63. This is most F*** up place i ever stay after i been so many countries. so many ppl jobless. Most of my friends still having trouble looking for job. The older one got retrench. It's really unfair.Originally posted by skyline63:That the way of Singapore. The government you voted for ! And they give so many foriegn so call talent jobs. Till the local are jobless for months. So ........ when a country don't protect you. Why be a citizen of Singapore ? Because you are born here and you don't know what is all about.
Blame the government PAP will not help. Because you foolish vote for them.
Blame yourself is just fine. Because you vote them thinking there is no other party to vote. You problem if you are jobless. Your problem if you have debts ! Your problem if you are a citizen of Singapore ! So what if you died. It's still none of my business.
Hang yourself is a the best answer. For you have created your own doom.
Who care about your death ? When your body can be donated to foreign Indonesia Chinese, Kuwait, Arabs, Rich people who need your kidney, EYES, Heart, LIVER, To come to Singapore and do operation ? Singapore can earn more money when a citizen died in Singapore. Your body can be giving to them. Foriegn get first class treatment and never have to wait on the waiting list like Singapore citizen.
Best in the world. You are slave in Singapore. Serve your army and died for your country. DO what you can do for your country. Don't ask what country can do for you. You are a slave to the Singapore so never ask what the country can do for you. Study hard and work. It's your life that never taught by your teachers.
Your teachers also face the same problem. No jobs and they have be a Teacher. Because their jobs have been giving to foriegn talent.
Don't blame the PAP. You vote for them. If you out of job. Don't blame the PAP. Blame yourself. Why ? I don't know. You tell me ! -
You are only a bookworm if you let the system make you into one.Originally posted by vito_corleone:because nus and ntu produces mostly bookworms. if they're really so good, why do you think the gov sends people elsewhere instead of nus and ntu? 
-
Vote wisely for the next time.Originally posted by chihuahua:kp la skyline63.... not happy with singapore den get the fuk outta here. no one asking you to stay in singapore... since you so capable,go other countries la PCB... your father mother uncle auntie never vote PAP? never scold them?
-
if we got the chance?Originally posted by Meilin86:Vote wisely for the next time. -
who are you gonna vote if you dont vote for PAP? our opposition? give me someone good enough!!
-
if you think so lowly of singapore why are you still here? are you sure those countries that you have been to are better?Originally posted by Meilin86:I agree with u ,skyline63. This is most F*** up place i ever stay after i been so many countries. so many ppl jobless. Most of my friends still having trouble looking for job. The older one got retrench. It's really unfair. -
-
Hmm..give them a chance..to be honest, that was the same opinion that greeted the PAP in 1950s..when they were trying to convince SGporeans..history might just come full circle.Originally posted by dragg:who are you gonna vote if you dont vote for PAP? our opposition? give me someone good enough!! -
if only we can find someone good enough.....Originally posted by LazerLordz:Hmm..give them a chance..to be honest, that was the same opinion that greeted the PAP in 1950s..when they were trying to convince SGporeans..history might just come full circle. -
We need our own Vitkor Yuschenko and our own Orange Revolution.
-
I do feel the same way as the guy who initially posted this topic. The government asks you to be an entrepreneur, starts your own business, venture overseas, etc, etc, ...
In a way you could help the economy by you creating more jobs for fellow Singaporeans, more rental places getting fill up, transport and service industries getting more business, etc... And they collect more taxes.
And mind you, the minute you succeed, they will support your ventures and later claimed that they played a part in your success. But the minute you failed, you are left all alone to face your creditors.
I agreed that we will have to face the creditors as we owe them the money and we have to pay them back, and that is their rights to demand what is owed to them.
But the point is that when you are being declared a bankrupt, the people at the Official Assignee office treats you like as though youÂ’ve cheated the whole world. Not a single dignity is given to you.
Failing is part and parcel of running a business. Who wants to start their own business if they are treated like pariahs should they fail?
Under PM Goh I do notice a change in the attitude of the people in the OA office. -
you must be joking right? your friends are around your age right? OFCOURSE they dun have as job.Originally posted by Meilin86:I agree with u ,skyline63. This is most F*** up place i ever stay after i been so many countries. so many ppl jobless. Most of my friends still having trouble looking for job. The older one got retrench. It's really unfair. -
I think the point the original poster was making, was the concept of the ‘Foreign Talent’ as presented by our government is mostly bollocks.
What the government sold us was that the Foreign Talents offer abilities that Singaporeans lack, hence they are contributing to our economy - and not just taking up jobs that locals need. The examples given by the government are curious. CEOs, bankers, top chefs – all at the top of the pyramid… but Singaporeans who can compete at this level are already mobile and affluent.
In reality, the above is a minority. The key issue here is jobs that range from middle management to technical, support and clerical appointments - accountants, programmers, hotel staff, etc. The key issue here is jobs that Singaporeans can perform, jobs that are taken up by foreigners - simply because they are much cheaper.
Why are these foreign labour cheaper? Because they come from a country with a much lower cost of living. Because their families are in a country with a much lower cost of living. Because they will be returning to retire in a country with a much lower cost of living.
The dilemma we face is that while national productivity gains seems stagnant, much of our progress have been tied to a constant influx of cheaper foreign labor - not just laborers but trained professionals as well: all contributing to lowering the wage costs of the service, financial, manufacturing sectors. How bad will be the impact on businesses if they are forced to replace their existing cheap labor with higher priced Singaporeans?
It is a delicate balance to keep, and the government must balance the needs of the economy with the needs of the people or risk alienating them. Already I have friends and acquaintances who have opted to discard their citizenship, working abroad or returning as a ‘foreign talent’ / PR with far superior remuneration while having zero obligations to the nation (NS). To some of them, being Singaporean in Singapore is like being a 2nd class citizen – a form of neo-colonialism where the people who grew up here and stayed here form up the lowest rank of the Singaporean food chain. -
many people till now had no chance to vote. So we got no choice.
-
Our Foreign Talents policy is a fallacy.And they are squeezing us out of Middle Management.The can do the menial jobs which dislike or they can come and contribute as real talents which we do not have.Originally posted by bumbleb:I think the point the original poster was making, was the concept of the ‘Foreign Talent’ as presented by our government is mostly bollocks.
What the government sold us was that the Foreign Talents offer abilities that Singaporeans lack, hence they are contributing to our economy - and not just taking up jobs that locals need. The examples given by the government are curious. CEOs, bankers, top chefs – all at the top of the pyramid… but Singaporeans who can compete at this level are already mobile and affluent.
In reality, the above is a minority. The key issue here is jobs that range from middle management to technical, support and clerical appointments - accountants, programmers, hotel staff, etc. The key issue here is jobs that Singaporeans can perform, jobs that are taken up by foreigners - simply because they are much cheaper.
Why are these foreign labour cheaper? Because they come from a country with a much lower cost of living. Because their families are in a country with a much lower cost of living. Because they will be returning to retire in a country with a much lower cost of living.
The dilemma we face is that while national productivity gains seems stagnant, much of our progress have been tied to a constant influx of cheaper foreign labor - not just laborers but trained professionals as well: all contributing to lowering the wage costs of the service, financial, manufacturing sectors. How bad will be the impact on businesses if they are forced to replace their existing cheap labor with higher priced Singaporeans?
It is a delicate balance to keep, and the government must balance the needs of the economy with the needs of the people or risk alienating them. Already I have friends and acquaintances who have opted to discard their citizenship, working abroad or returning as a ‘foreign talent’ / PR with far superior remuneration while having zero obligations to the nation (NS). To some of them, being Singaporean in Singapore is like being a 2nd class citizen – a form of neo-colonialism where the people who grew up here and stayed here form up the lowest rank of the Singaporean food chain.
Wahahaha, is the government trying to say we lack engineer and managers?Depressing wages will not increase profits and productivity, as there are other factors to be brought in besides wage factors.It's also about product quality and inherent value.Artificially making things cheaper than what they are will not solve anything. -
Depressing wages DO increase profits. productivity is more tricky... if u define productivity as the amt of work done within a given time, then yes, depressing wages may not help much.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Our Foreign Talents policy is a fallacy.And they are squeezing us out of Middle Management.The can do the menial jobs which dislike or they can come and contribute as real talents which we do not have.
Wahahaha, is the government trying to say we lack engineer and managers?Depressing wages will not increase profits and productivity, as there are other factors to be brought in besides wage factors.It's also about product quality and inherent value.Artificially making things cheaper than what they are will not solve anything.
however, if u define productivity as the amt of work done within a given amt of wages, then yes, paying lower wages to a foreign worker (not talent, worker) can possibly increase it.
if u just waltz into a production floor, u will most likely hear the the bosses complain that for the amt of OT the pay to a shift here, they can probably make a shift in china work OT for a month
yes, they're THAT cheap.
they're squeezing out locals as middle management here? how come i wasn't aware of it? how come i still have a job and most of my collegues are not foreigners???
don't cultivate a "victim" mentality... if a foreigner was selected over a singaporean, we should be asking why... is it cos we're no longer worth the money? is it cos others are offering the same skills for less money?
and what if they're paying foreigners the same amount or more than they pay to a local? then why are we not getting those opportunities? could it be that we're not making ourselves marketable or relevent? -
employers who refuses to offer jobs to locals or older workers are equally guilty.
-
Agreed with CX's views. The context needs to be right. For the higher income jobs, it is not just about paper qualification. The network u bring along is vital... such as getting MNCs to invest in Singapore which could create more jobs.Originally posted by CX:Depressing wages DO increase profits. productivity is more tricky... if u define productivity as the amt of work done within a given time, then yes, depressing wages may not help much.
however, if u define productivity as the amt of work done within a given amt of wages, then yes, paying lower wages to a foreign worker (not talent, worker) can possibly increase it.
if u just waltz into a production floor, u will most likely hear the the bosses complain that for the amt of OT the pay to a shift here, they can probably make a shift in china work OT for a month yes, they're THAT cheap.
they're squeezing out locals as middle management here? how come i wasn't aware of it? how come i still have a job and most of my collegues are not foreigners???
don't cultivate a "victim" mentality... if a foreigner was selected over a singaporean, we should be asking why... is it cos we're no longer worth the money? is it cos others are offering the same skills for less money?
and what if they're paying foreigners the same amount or more than they pay to a local? then why are we not getting those opportunities? could it be that we're not making ourselves marketable or relevent?
For the middle mgt jobs, well, it should be open competition. To make a general statement like all being equal BUT the foreigner gets "more" equal is flawed. perhaps that got to do with being able to "market" ourselves better? or to articulate better?
For the lower income type of jobs, of course it would be reasonable to offer locals if all being equal. The problem is we have this "social" status mentality that constrains us to not taking up. Not to mention that we "demand" higher pay to support our expenses... -
I would put productivity as a function of the amount of output (revenue) per unit of input (labour, equipment, and capital). So yes, one can raise productivity by lowering the cost of wages.... if one was to talk in pure economic terms without looking at the social impact of mass importing foreign nationals to take over a portion of local jobs.Originally posted by CX:Depressing wages DO increase profits. productivity is more tricky... if u define productivity as the amt of work done within a given time, then yes, depressing wages may not help much.
however, if u define productivity as the amt of work done within a given amt of wages, then yes, paying lower wages to a foreign worker (not talent, worker) can possibly increase it.
if u just waltz into a production floor, u will most likely hear the the bosses complain that for the amt of OT the pay to a shift here, they can probably make a shift in china work OT for a month yes, they're THAT cheap.
they're squeezing out locals as middle management here? how come i wasn't aware of it? how come i still have a job and most of my collegues are not foreigners???
don't cultivate a "victim" mentality... if a foreigner was selected over a singaporean, we should be asking why... is it cos we're no longer worth the money? is it cos others are offering the same skills for less money?
and what if they're paying foreigners the same amount or more than they pay to a local? then why are we not getting those opportunities? could it be that we're not making ourselves marketable or relevent?
For the 'victim' part, I think that there are very few jobs held by Singaporeans that cannot be easily replaced by a cheaper foreign labourer. Civil servants are protected for one. Professions like Law, Medicine etc are another. If your immediate work place is completely populated by Singaporeans, good for you - but there are plenty of companies that are hiring foreign labour cheaply. Even when they do not do so, they can outsource to third parties who can then lower their cost through cheaper foreign labour. Just because you are not a victim now does not mean that you are forever safe.
I work in the financial sector, and in my company there is only a small handful of Singaporean programmers, roughly double that in Malaysians, and the rest is either from India or China. Some of my friends reports a similar picture, though slightly less drastic. Our backroom operations, support staff etc are mixed with foreign workers too. My department were looking for a new guy, and my boss actually went and ask me if I mind working with an Indian/China guy as they were priced much lower than the locals.
How much are Singaporeans worth? I think the more appropriate question to ask is : how low can a Singaporean accept for his wages given the cost of living here? I would imagine that one can accept significantly lower wages if one have the option to double it when one crosses the causeway, or triple or more by flying back to China or India.
Ultimately, there are many skill sets that are in high demand. There are skill sets which have great international mobility too. But it is a fact that not everyone can get such, and not everyone is at an age where mobility still exists.
I think it is insensitive to laugh of the fate of older/lesser skilled Singaporean workers, and blame them when the government is opening the gates to workers from lower cost of living countries. The option for retraining is limited by the alternative employment opportunities available, and these are strongly affected by the volume of foreign investments coming in.