MM Lee's advice to Malaysia - should Malaysia follow?
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MM Lee goes around telling Malaysia that Singapore pays its ministers high salaries to prevent or avoid corruptions.
Ministers will be paid two thirds of his last drawn pay say S$800,000 net X 25 X 1.8 upon retirement. The total amount of such pension would work out to at least S$36,000,000 per minister from the time he retires for the rest of his life (25 years).
If Singapore is to support say 10 ministers on retirements, the total amount will come to S$360,000,000.00. The amount of pensions for say 100 MPs will work out to S$600,000,000.00.
This kind of self-approved golden handshake would cost the population about S$1,000,000,000.00 (can build an MRT) and enough to pay for our the medical costs of elderly sick and unemployed.
If Malaysia system is to listen to MM Lee's advice, it will have to set aside this kind of monies - legally self-paid or self-taken to avoid calling it corruption. What is corruption anyway? Is it taking of monies without permission or taking monies despite citizens' objections. -
paying these incompetent people this disgusting amount of money when they're in the office is bad enough, to think we have to continue supporting them like that after they retire...... i hope they die early and give us a break
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http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/sub/asia/story/0,5562,314275,00.html?
April 30, 2005
High salaries not way to fight graft, says Abdullah
Malaysian PM says integrity is the key to weeding out corruption
By Carolyn Hong
MALAYSIA CORRESPONDENT
KUALA LUMPUR - PRIME Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Badawi said his anti-corruption agenda has never wavered but disagreed with the Singapore strategy of paying high government salaries.
To him, the key is inculcating honesty and a value system that discourages greed.
Malaysia , usually somhow a "disagreeable country"-makes a good point this time. My Opinion ? Abullah talks sense.And let's not forget, just because it doesn't look like corruption (paying MPs high salaries) doesn't mean the Authortarian role of the ministers haven't taken place. In effect, its like telling the citizens that we ought to pay them more to have their hearts and minds right in running the country -
"Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
- Lord Acton
Perhaps the only effective way to curb corruption is to make it officially legal.
Anyway, why would Malaysians listen to MM Lee? Didn't he allude before that Johor Bahru was famous for "Mugging, Shooting and Car-jacking" (a play of initials of the Multimedia Super Corridor), generating a foreign relations furore at that time? -
They could spend that amount on upgrading the healthcare system...dun u agreeOriginally posted by robertteh:MM Lee goes around telling Malaysia that Singapore pays its ministers high salaries to prevent or avoid corruptions.
Ministers will be paid two thirds of his last drawn pay say S$800,000 net X 25 X 1.8 upon retirement. The total amount of such pension would work out to at least S$36,000,000 per minister from the time he retires for the rest of his life (25 years).
If Singapore is to support say 10 ministers on retirements, the total amount will come to S$360,000,000.00. The amount of pensions for say 100 MPs will work out to S$600,000,000.00.
This kind of self-approved golden handshake would cost the population about S$1,000,000,000.00 (can build an MRT) and enough to pay for our the medical costs of elderly sick and unemployed.
If Malaysia system is to listen to MM Lee's advice, it will have to set aside this kind of monies - legally self-paid or self-taken to avoid calling it corruption. What is corruption anyway? Is it taking of monies without permission or taking monies despite citizens' objections. -
We should exhort Malaysia not to take his advice.
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'High salaries not way to fight graft, says Abdullah
I agree totally with Abdullah...problem seems to be that we do not have enough ministers of integrity in Singapore, so we have to buy their integrity with obscene sums of money.
Malaysian PM says integrity is the key to weeding out corruption' -
That's just ludicrous. To fight corruption we have to pay our ministers and mps huge salaries and pensions? Here's a thought: How about recruiting HONEST people instead of crooks in the first place??? Heeeellllooooooooo!!!!!!!!
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why dont we pay every singaporeans a high salary? then CPIB can close shop!!!
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Originally posted by dragg:
High salaries can curb corruption, but cannot eradicate corruption. Even if one is highly-paid, it is unlikely one would complain of having more than enough money.
why dont we pay every singaporeans a high salary? then CPIB can close shop!!!
The Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau is in place to check public (and in some cases, private) officers from receiving extra kickbacks on top of their monthly dough, no matter how high it may be. According to the PS21 website, the bureau has "helped to put Singapore on the map as the fifth least corrupt country in the world (ranking by Transparency International). "
So if Singapore wishes to be the No. 1 least corrupt country in the world, the salaries of the ministers might just have to go higher some more. -
What a way to justify more increases.Pui.Originally posted by Tuatau:High salaries can curb corruption, but cannot eliminate corruption. Even if one is highly-paid, it is unlikely one would complain of having more than enough money.
The Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau is in place to check public (and in some cases, private) officers from receiving extra kickbacks on top of their monthly dough, no matter how high it may be. According to the PS21 website, the bureau has "helped to put Singapore on the map as the fifth least corrupt country in the world (ranking by Transparency International). "
So if Singapore wishes to be the No. 1 least corrupt country in the world, the salaries of the ministers might just have to go higher some more. -
so does that mean the other 4 countries pay their civil servants more than we do?Originally posted by Tuatau:High salaries can curb corruption, but cannot eliminate corruption. Even if one is highly-paid, it is unlikely one would complain of having more than enough money.
The Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau is in place to check public (and in some cases, private) officers from receiving extra kickbacks on top of their monthly dough, no matter how high it may be. According to the PS21 website, the bureau has "helped to put Singapore on the map as the fifth least corrupt country in the world (ranking by Transparency International). "
So if Singapore wishes to be the No. 1 least corrupt country in the world, the salaries of the ministers might just have to go higher some more. -
Originally posted by dragg:
I wouldn't have any insight on those countries, but from what the Singapore government has been doing to tackle the corruption problem here, rising ministers' salaries seems to be the way to go.
so does that mean the other 4 countries pay their civil servants more than we do?
Different countries have different cultures and social systems. The methods that those countries use to tackle corruption may not necessarily be applicable to Singapore, anyway. -
raising ministers' salaries seems to be the way they want to go.Originally posted by Tuatau:I wouldn't have any insight on those countries, but from what the Singapore government has been doing to tackle the corruption problem here, rising ministers' salaries seems to be the way to go.
Different countries have different cultures and social systems. The methods that those countries use to tackle corruption may not necessarily be applicable to Singapore, anyway. -
Originally posted by LazerLordz:
That is, if Singapore is not contented to be No. 5.
What a way to justify more increases.Pui.
Things may not necessarily come to that point. -
Originally posted by dragg:
What they want to go usually turns out to be the way to go.
raising ministers' salaries seems to be the way they want to go.
Sad, but proven true time and time again. -
If high salaries is the reason why the ministers are not corrupt, then it implies that if the salaries are lower, they would be taking side incomes!! What happen if they have no income for a few months, start robbing?Originally posted by Tuatau:High salaries can curb corruption, but cannot eradicate corruption. Even if one is highly-paid, it is unlikely one would complain of having more than enough money.
The Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau is in place to check public (and in some cases, private) officers from receiving extra kickbacks on top of their monthly dough, no matter how high it may be. According to the PS21 website, the bureau has "helped to put Singapore on the map as the fifth least corrupt country in the world (ranking by Transparency International). "
So if Singapore wishes to be the No. 1 least corrupt country in the world, the salaries of the ministers might just have to go higher some more.
morally, they are worse off than the vast majority of the people who voted them in. Most singaporean do not have high salaries, but we do not automatically take kickbacks.
vote carefully!! -
The few who took monies on the side were paid high salaries. By the beginning of 1990s ministers' and top civil servants' pays were already revised upwards a few times to become the highest or among the highest when the private sector's pays were dropping. Have such high salaries served to check on corruptions within the civil service, GLCs, NTUC or ministers?Originally posted by Tuatau:What they want to go usually turns out to be the way to go.
Sad, but proven true time and time again.
Sadly the highly paid ministers were not freed of corruptions as assumed by our wise confucian leaders and that is a fact !!! The advice given to Malaysian ministers were not based on correct facts but only man's prejudices or self-assumptions !! -
Originally posted by sgdiehard:
For a time after the fall of the Qing dynasty, many provinces in China were under the de facto rule of various warlords with their own private armies, who swore a loose allegiance to the Kuomintang.
If high salaries is the reason why the ministers are not corrupt, then it implies that if the salaries are lower, they would be taking side incomes!! What happen if they have no income for a few months, start robbing?
When these armies felt that the warlords and the central government weren't paying them enough, indeed they took to looting and robbing from the local populace, thus giving the Kuomintang armies the infamous "guan ji shi fei, fei ji shi guan (rulers are robbers, robbers are rulers)" reputation. This reputation was also one of the attributing factors that swayed much public sympathy towards the then-underdogs -- the Chinese Communist Party. -
Originally posted by robertteh:
Yes. High salaries could indeed curb corruption, but only for a short while. The funny thing about money is that the more one has it, the less one tends to be satisfied with the amount one has. Doling out self-congratulatory golden handshakes from public coffers have unfortunately whetted the avaricious appetites of many, and the role of the CPIB became ever the more vital.
The few who took monies on the side were paid high salaries. By the beginning of 1990s ministers' and top civil servants' pays were already revised upwards a few times to become the highest or among the highest when the private sector's pays were dropping. Have such high salaries served to check on corruptions within the civil service, GLCs, NTUC or ministers?
Sadly the highly paid ministers were not freed of corruptions as assumed by our wise confucian leaders and that is a fact !!! The advice given to Malaysian ministers were not based on correct facts but only man's prejudices or self-assumptions !!
Yet, instead of dissecting the social system to address the root of the "new opium" issue, the leaders of the country have justified their move with the reasoning that the high salaries were essential to keep the young and talented in public office from being lost to the private sector.
And so begins the vicious cycle. -
It is probably not high pays alone that will help to lessen corruption.Originally posted by Tuatau:Yes. High salaries could indeed curb corruption, but only for a short while. The funny thing about money is that the more one has it, the less one tends to be satisfied with the amount one has. Doling out self-congratulatory golden handshakes from public coffers have unfortunately whetted the avaricious appetites of many, and the role of the CPIB became ever the more vital.
Yet, instead of dissecting the social system to address the root of the "new opium" issue, the leaders of the country have justified their move with the reasoning that the high salaries were essential to keep the young and talented in public office from being lost to the private sector.
And so begins the vicious cycle.
It is true that when a person is paid sufficiently (not to the highest) he will have less tendency to supplement his incomes from corruption.
When monies offerred are relatively large, likely to be in millions how can a person be able to resist temptation then? How long can he resist temptation? How about those who are smarter who go for building subtle business relations to one's firm or one's connection's firms to which CPIB is most likely unable to trace thereby ineffective to stop corruption.
Despite the claim of incorruptibility there exist three serious problems :
(1) who is to prevent corruption at higher level where problems are bigger and normally more difficult to prosecute in practice.
(2) how to prevent subtle corruptions not to mention self-approved high salaries which is not proper form of remuneration.
(3) how to stop abuse of power by those in CPIB or the higher echelon either in prosecution or avoiding prosecution of corruptions..
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Oh great,u sounds like a government official trying to cover their ugly act.I feel sleepy already,Zzzz........Originally posted by Tuatau:I wouldn't have any insight on those countries, but from what the Singapore government has been doing to tackle the corruption problem here, rising ministers' salaries seems to be the way to go.
Different countries have different cultures and social systems. The methods that those countries use to tackle corruption may not necessarily be applicable to Singapore, anyway. -
Good question,but it seems like Tautua gives u a lousy answer.Originally posted by dragg:so does that mean the other 4 countries pay their civil servants more than we do? -
Defination of corruption is different in different culture.Originally posted by ·¯riverºê:http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/sub/asia/story/0,5562,314275,00.html?
April 30, 2005
High salaries not way to fight graft, says Abdullah
Malaysian PM says integrity is the key to weeding out corruption
By Carolyn Hong
MALAYSIA CORRESPONDENT
KUALA LUMPUR - PRIME Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Badawi said his anti-corruption agenda has never wavered but disagreed with the Singapore strategy of paying high government salaries.
To him, the key is inculcating honesty and a value system that discourages greed.
Malaysia , usually somhow a "disagreeable country"-makes a good point this time. My Opinion ? Abullah talks sense.And let's not forget, just because it doesn't look like corruption (paying MPs high salaries) doesn't mean the Authortarian role of the ministers haven't taken place. In effect, its like telling the citizens that we ought to pay them more to have their hearts and minds right in running the country
Just like there are loan sharks who are legal, known as BANKS. Therefore our legal name for corruption is known as SALARY and PENSION. -
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