Chinese
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Hmm I have Malay and Indian friends who are brought up in an English speaking environment.Originally posted by Tuatau:The term "banana" seems to be an exclusive term for the Chinese race. One has not yet heard of a similar term used for the other races in Singapore. Those who know of any, please share with us.
Do not look down on Mandarin, but when people laugh at us for using English, ask yourself, who is more geared to engage this increasingly globalised world..us or the Commies?
Even the Commies are taking up English.
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Seriously if are a yellow person....no matter where you go....Originally posted by LazerLordz:Hmm I have Malay and Indian friends who are brought up in an English speaking environment.
Do not look down on Mandarin, but when people laugh at us for using English, ask yourself, who is more geared to engage this increasingly globalised world..us or the Commies?
Even the Commies are taking up English.
in the past ,people in other country will call u a commie or a kungfu master.. -
Call if they want.Balls to them these ignorant gits anyway.Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:Seriously if are a yellow person....no matter where you go....
in the past ,people in other country will call u a commie or a kungfu master.. -
Agreed. They can call us names- but it's up to us to prove them wrong.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Call if they want.Balls to them these ignorant gits anyway. -
we need not feel ashame just because a non-chinese can speak mandarin better than we do. many of us can speak english better than a lot of ang mohs too. are we putting the ang mohs to shame too? i beg to differ. the minimum we should do is to at least be communicable in our own language.Originally posted by Gun:Attitude. Its that determine one's desire to learn and appeciate any language.
Many a times my non-Chinese associates had put local (Singaporean) Chinese to shame by their Beijing-trained mastery in both written and spoken Mandarin.In fact, they so well-versed in both China history and the finer arts that could have true "Chinese" blood running in them !
Fact is, Singapore's education system is geared towards commerical and industrialised utilisation instead of appreciating the religion of a language. -
I grew up in an English speaking environment. My english in school has always been top, while my mandarin has always endevoured to reach the double digit range.
In army, I managed to pick snippets of hokkien and mandarin and now I can hold a decent conversation in mandarin without the "ang mo" accent.
I lived in China before and I realised that the China ppl are all trying to learn english and they only trust ang mos to teach them. Here's the funny part. I watched a show where they teach you simple english phrases, and the ang mo was using american slang instead of proper english!
Ang Mo: far out dude
Mandarin translator: how bang ah
Ang Mo: would you like to hang out?
Mandarin translator: ni yao pei wo qu guang jie mah?
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Anyway, about the state of mandarin in Sg, I guess you cannot blame the govt because it is a matter of choice. Coming from a born and bred kantang, I feel that there is not much use for proper mandarin in sg. I can order food in hawker centres, converse with malaysians, china ppl and fit into any situation in sg. The purpose of language is to get your message across and I seem to achieve that in every aspect of sg life even with my smuttering of mandarin.
Also, I fell that many sg children can put even the brits to shame when it comes to mastery of the english language. Can the ang mos come to sg and put our kantangs to shame with their mastery of the chinese language? I'd say not many. -
Originally posted by SilverPal:
Above paragraph is a typical (Singaporean?)attitude of what I had pointed out earlier on how local education system had condition its population attitude towards (any) language . That it is for business, commercial and competitive sake of a nation. Like SilverPal had said, hes/she is able to communicate in other arrays of dialects within Singapore and claims since PRC folks are learning English, Singaporean's mastery of English is sufficient.
I grew up in an English speaking environment. My english in school has always been top, while my mandarin has always endevoured to reach the double digit range.
That, IMO, is a dangerous assumption.
if 1 billion pple are eager to learn English, then what edge that Singaporean Chinese hv in future's market ? Having a good english is must, but that is no longer unique to Singaporean's so-called bilingual system.
One may poke fun at current English proficiency amounst PRC Chinese, but the same joke can fall on some ethnic Chinese Singaporean on their terrible attitude they hv towards they "2nd language" which those 1 billion has already mastered. -
Are you saying "minimum" language proficiency is to be able to converse with it ? Isn't that as good as (or worst) than those "ang-mohs" ?Originally posted by dragg:we need not feel ashame just because a non-chinese can speak mandarin better than we do. many of us can speak english better than a lot of ang mohs too. are we putting the ang mohs to shame too? i beg to differ. the minimum we should do is to at least be communicable in our own language.
I don't supposed that you can get hired by simply able to "talk" in language only, do you ? -
Surely we speak better english than any brits or yankees who don go to grammer schools, but while we'd like to believe we have mastered english, singaporean english is still not recognised as standard english for teaching other non english speaking students, anywhere. Even language schools in singapore like Lorna Wiston and Julia Gabriels employ only Native English Speaking teachers, i have not yet seen any singaporean there.Originally posted by SilverPal:I grew up in an English speaking environment. My english in school has always been top, while my mandarin has always endevoured to reach the double digit range.
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Anyway, about the state of mandarin in Sg, I guess you cannot blame the govt because it is a matter of choice. Coming from a born and bred kantang, I feel that there is not much use for proper mandarin in sg. I can order food in hawker centres, converse with malaysians, china ppl and fit into any situation in sg. The purpose of language is to get your message across and I seem to achieve that in every aspect of sg life even with my smuttering of mandarin.
Also, I fell that many sg children can put even the brits to shame when it comes to mastery of the english language. Can the ang mos come to sg and put our kantangs to shame with their mastery of the chinese language? I'd say not many.
angmohs who master chinese language are mostly in China and Taiwan. Besides, in singapore you won't even know if they can speak chinese because we will speak to them in english.
Chinese in china don need english if they stay in China because china market is big enough. When it comes to facing the globalized world, 1% of chinese speak english means 13 million chinese speaking english and chinese! what kind of competition are singaporeans facing ?? Knowing english may be good enough, so far, but if china is becoming a significant player in this globalized world, we have to decide how we should engage them, or are we waiting for them to engage us?
Staying in singapore, do I really need english? my lousy hokkien is good enough, and may be a few word of broken english, add a few words of mandarin i can speak good singlish.
No matter what people say or laugh, we better be prepared to ensure we have the last laugh. -
why keep comparing to the ang mohs? a language is just a tool of communication. you need not master a language to get a job, at least not in singapore.Originally posted by Gun:Are you saying "minimum" language proficiency is to be able to converse with it ? Isn't that as good as (or worst) than those "ang-mohs" ?
I don't supposed that you can get hired by simply able to "talk" in language only, do you ? -
Correction: My reply is directed at your comparison about "ang mohs" poor standard of their language. So who was making comparison in the 1st place ?Originally posted by dragg:why keep comparing to the ang mohs? a language is just a tool of communication. you need not master a language to get a job, at least not in singapore.
And to your second statement, I noted that your disclaimer that such practical attitude towards language applied for Singapore. Now, some one had pointed along the same line as yours about "minimal" knowledge of a language.
That, IMO, is as good as those "ang moh's " attitude towards their native language: Minimal disipline & effort with hoping for maximum return. Sadly, language is one skill that cannot be acquired using this learning methology.
Like I've mentioned earlier: It is your attitude that counts, regardless of perception of how 'difficult' a language, native or not. -
proficiency in mandarin is an integral part of identity to chinese heritage. it is necessary when used in formal mandarin communication. it also means that mandarin will always remain an official language in singapore instead of being phased out by english.
if you can discard your mother tongue today, you can just as well denounce your chinese roots tommorow.
we can go anywhere on business trips, for work or study. but a chinese society is the only conducive home for an ethnic chinese. no matter how much we long to defect to western or jap society, it will always remain as wishful thinking on our part only. an ethnic chinese staying in western or jap society will never receive equal treatment, and be discriminated. also will never be politically represented. -
thank you very much. your comments have a lot of insight.Originally posted by Gun:Correction: My reply is directed at your comparison about "ang mohs" poor standard of their language. So who was making comparison in the 1st place ?
And to your second statement, I noted that your disclaimer that such practical attitude towards language applied for Singapore. Now, some one had pointed along the same line as yours about "minimal" knowledge of a language.
That, IMO, is as good as those "ang moh's " attitude towards their native language: Minimal disipline & effort with hoping for maximum return. Sadly, language is one skill that cannot be acquired using this learning methology.
Like I've mentioned earlier: It is your attitude that counts, regardless of perception of how 'difficult' a language, native or not. -
Most welcomed.Originally posted by dragg:thank you very much. your comments have a lot of insight. -
Just get a China chinese Gf to learn chinese better.
Now so many china chinese people in spore, both for work or study.
No need to all the way go china.
This raises another problem,
how does the general society see a spore man w a china gf?
Thats a diff topic thou. -
Most Chinese I met in China can't really speak fluent English. But then again they don't really need to since Chinese market is so big. Other people will learn Mandarin in order to communicate with them.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Hmm I have Malay and Indian friends who are brought up in an English speaking environment.
Do not look down on Mandarin, but when people laugh at us for using English, ask yourself, who is more geared to engage this increasingly globalised world..us or the Commies?
Even the Commies are taking up English.
But I just don't understand why there are Sporeans out there who think that Mandarin is not important or irrelevant. In Singapore, the locals may speak better English than Mainland Chinese but aren't we still losing our jobs to Chinese FTs?
The mindset that English is definitely more important than mandarin is really becoming more and more outdated. -
Funny, but most Chinese in S'pore speak more mandarin than english. I think their proficiency in English is mostly worse than their Chinese.
Anyway, its no crime if you cant speak your "own" language. Black Americans don't speak African too -
What's the use of hiring China nationals who cannot communicate effectively in English? How do they serve English speaking races?
I was recently at an HDB branch office to do some transactions, and the China girl over the counter could not explain matters to me in English. What happened to bilingualism?
Are we set on a course to becoming China-Singapore? -
Is the chinese language tat is important or the chinese values tat we should retain? ... just a tot.
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you need to learn the language to understand the culture. the culture will lead you to the values.Originally posted by margarita:Is the chinese language tat is important or the chinese values tat we should retain? ... just a tot.
i have never seen anyone who keeps chinese values but dont understand the language. -
Originally posted by ShutterBug:What's the use of hiring China nationals who cannot communicate effectively in English? How do they serve English speaking races?
I was recently at an HDB branch office to do some transactions, and the China girl over the counter could not explain matters to me in English. What happened to bilingualism?
Are we set on a course to becoming China-Singapore?
how come got china ger working in HDB ? -
well said!Originally posted by boy in blues:proficiency in mandarin is an integral part of identity to chinese heritage. it is necessary when used in formal mandarin communication. it also means that mandarin will always remain an official language in singapore instead of being phased out by english.
if you can discard your mother tongue today, you can just as well denounce your chinese roots tommorow.
we can go anywhere on business trips, for work or study. but a chinese society is the only conducive home for an ethnic chinese. no matter how much we long to defect to western or jap society, it will always remain as wishful thinking on our part only. an ethnic chinese staying in western or jap society will never receive equal treatment, and be discriminated. also will never be politically represented. -
hah!even though the syllabus is supposed to be lighter, they are now focusing on testing us words that are hackneyed and will probably not be used in today's context.
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what use is mastery of the china history and finer arts? if you say for appreciation then any other history or finer art will do if you say its ethnic sort of thing then i say if we don't have such it would be better since then there would be less barriers to non-racism, in addition i see no need for ethnic history "understanding" we are singaporeans not china people why should we learn about china peoples' history and culture any more than other countries?Originally posted by Gun:Attitude. Its that determine one's desire to learn and appeciate any language.
Many a times my non-Chinese associates had put local (Singaporean) Chinese to shame by their Beijing-trained mastery in both written and spoken Mandarin.In fact, they so well-versed in both China history and the finer arts that could have true "Chinese" blood running in them !
Fact is, Singapore's education system is geared towards commerical and industrialised utilisation instead of appreciating the religion of a language. -
How does knowing your own roots, culture and history become a "barriers to non-racism"?Originally posted by hisoka:what use is mastery of the china history and finer arts? if you say for appreciation then any other history or finer art will do if you say its ethnic sort of thing then i say if we don't have such it would be better since then there would be less barriers to non-racism, in addition i see no need for ethnic history "understanding" we are singaporeans not china people why should we learn about china peoples' history and culture any more than other countries?
Stay in singapore and you will not need to understand any history or cultures at all. For those who wants to step outside and meet the world, "understanding" of any ethnic cultures will certainly help you understand why people behave the way they do and this will bring one closer to another. You have to find out what understanding your very own ethnic culture can do for you. If you don't, then you don't need to know. Singaporean, our nationality, does not replace our ethnicity. This subject has already been discussed in this forum. Who you are is not just what you say you are, but what others see who you are.
Ever wonder why even LKY wants to learn chinese and not hindu or tamil, or why he wants to show off occasionally his knowledge of chinese history, and not the english history?