Chinese
-
Originally posted by hisoka:
Deny one's roots and one becomes but a broken leaf floating forever, to wherever the winds of change would blow it.
what use is mastery of the china history and finer arts? if you say for appreciation then any other history or finer art will do if you say its ethnic sort of thing then i say if we don't have such it would be better since then there would be less barriers to non-racism, in addition i see no need for ethnic history "understanding" we are singaporeans not china people why should we learn about china peoples' history and culture any more than other countries?
Racism arises chiefly due to the lack of understanding of another's culture. If knowing one's own culture better would prevent one from understanding another's culture, why would the Singapore Ministry of Education promote "Racial Harmony Day" by encouraging teachers and students to dress in their ethnic costumes and to introduce their own culture to other races?
If the Chinese in Singapore do not make an active effort to know even their own culture, how could the Malays, Indians and other racial minorities expect them to appreciate the cultures of other races? -
Seems like it's the other way around for me.Your comfort level in a society also depends on your environment where you were born and nurtured too.Originally posted by boy in blues:proficiency in mandarin is an integral part of identity to chinese heritage. it is necessary when used in formal mandarin communication. it also means that mandarin will always remain an official language in singapore instead of being phased out by english.
if you can discard your mother tongue today, you can just as well denounce your chinese roots tommorow.
we can go anywhere on business trips, for work or study. but a chinese society is the only conducive home for an ethnic chinese. no matter how much we long to defect to western or jap society, it will always remain as wishful thinking on our part only. an ethnic chinese staying in western or jap society will never receive equal treatment, and be discriminated. also will never be politically represented.
I feel more comfortable in Australia than Japan, and I have no wish to live nor plant roots in Japan.To me, language proficiency is one of the major factors that contribute to my comfort level in any given society.
In fact, as much as I have pride in my heritage, I am also proud that I can feel at home in any English speaking environment.I disagree that ethnic Chinese will only feel at home in a Chinese dominated society.What you inherit in your genes is one issue, how you are brought up and immersed in your local society also plays a huge part in determining your real homeland. -
U mean we learn from Susilo?Originally posted by NuLife:Just get a China chinese Gf to learn chinese better.
Now so many china chinese people in spore, both for work or study.
No need to all the way go china.
This raises another problem,
how does the general society see a spore man w a china gf?
Thats a diff topic thou. -
I think Singaporean speak horrible Mandarin .Always after a few words and english words will pop out. I hate the Then,then,then.....,why not say ' Rang Hou'?
-
i think you mistake me my main point was why chinese history? you say understanding enthnic cultures will hlp understand behaviour by others, well then its not chinese culture you have to learn but the whoe world's or the part of the world you are concerned about right?Originally posted by sgdiehard:How does knowing your own roots, culture and history become a "barriers to non-racism"?
Stay in singapore and you will not need to understand any history or cultures at all. For those who wants to step outside and meet the world, "understanding" of any ethnic cultures will certainly help you understand why people behave the way they do and this will bring one closer to another. You have to find out what understanding your very own ethnic culture can do for you. If you don't, then you don't need to know. Singaporean, our nationality, does not replace our ethnicity. This subject has already been discussed in this forum. Who you are is not just what you say you are, but what others see who you are.
Ever wonder why even LKY wants to learn chinese and not hindu or tamil, or why he wants to show off occasionally his knowledge of chinese history, and not the english history?
as to the barrier to non-racism, from what i understand racism/etc derives from differences, the more major the differences are the more they are likely to become barriers. thus if you eliminate some of the differences by most pple not remember or not carign about different past, then there are less barriers right?
could you explain the part about havign to find out what knowing you ethnicity can do for you? i don't get that part no idea what you are talking about sorry.
hmm btw i always thought lky did that to gain popularity and support and give an illusion(or otherwise) that he cares or is concerned about the pple who he wants to vote for or support him. -
Tat's singlish la....Originally posted by zenden9:I think Singaporean speak horrible Mandarin .Always after a few words and english words will pop out. I hate the Then,then,then.....,why not say ' Rang Hou'?
-
Learn as many cultures as you can, but where do you start? I started with chinese because I am a chinese, I want to learn why my parents brought me up the way they did, and there are more and more chinese around me from china, hongkong, malaysia, indonesia....plus many. Why "well then its not chinese culture you have to learn"??Originally posted by hisoka:i think you mistake me my main point was why chinese history? you say understanding enthnic cultures will hlp understand behaviour by others, well then its not chinese culture you have to learn but the whoe world's or the part of the world you are concerned about right?
Racism, by definition, is the assertion of the superiority of one race over another, due to racial differences in, among other things, skin color. How do you eliminate skin color? Racial difference exists simply because man are not made the same. History tells us that cutures are different because different civilizations or societies evolved differently. Ignorant of the differences, not remembering or not caring about the past will not make racial difference disappear, but will certainly make you an ostrich in the sand.as to the barrier to non-racism, from what i understand racism/etc derives from differences, the more major the differences are the more they are likely to become barriers. thus if you eliminate some of the differences by most pple not remember or not carign about different past, then there are less barriers right?
Know the difference between ethnicity and nationality. I am an ethnic chinese and a singaporean national. i am different from the ethnic chinese from mainly china, hong kong, taiwan or america. I am also different from the singaporean who are ethnically malay, or indian. What are the differences??could you explain the part about havign to find out what knowing you ethnicity can do for you? i don't get that part no idea what you are talking about sorry.
Gaining popularity is right, but how does speaking chinese and knowing chinese culture show that he cares or was concerned? He did it to the chinese to show that "we" are of the same origin. ever heard him talking to the malays or indians about malay or indians histories?hmm btw i always thought lky did that to gain popularity and support and give an illusion(or otherwise) that he cares or is concerned about the pple who he wants to vote for or support him. -
hmm for some reason i only got the last sentence nvm i shall try asbest i canOriginally posted by sgdiehard:Gaining popularity is right, but how does speaking chinese and knowing chinese culture show that he cares or was concerned? He did it to the chinese to show that "we" are of the same origin. ever heard him talking to the malays or indians about malay or indians histories?
firstly i said its not chinese culture we have to learn as in chinese is not THE culture we have to learn as implied by the claims of learning YOUR cultural roots. as you said learnign about which culture first is your choice.
racism, ok maybe i used the wrong word racism since its too specific but the point stand on reducing difference, i am advocating a mass ignoring/forgeting of the difference quoted and not a individual thus it wont become an ostrich sticking head into sand as you seem to think so.
regarding ethnicity, i guess your point would stand but i'm slightly clueless to what purpose knowing you are different will serve. in addition, not insult or wahtever but are you sure you are purely chinese? otherwise you might not be ethnically chinese in the first place and the only viable way to do that would be to go and check the roots thoroughly i guess, not a veyr easy task. 2ndly i guess if we were to believe scientist we were all ethnically or originally african(not sure about the location and am lazy to check specifics, please do not flame me for this) so we all have common root.
okz lky, well showing we are of same origin is also a play to garner votes no? it only shows him manipulating pple who care about common ethnicity. he did it cos he perceived it as a way to garner support which is not possible personally for the other races. oh and it actually does show that he cares becuase of those who cannot speak english and by speakign of chinese history he assures those that care about it like you that he is on the same wavelength and thus sowing concern about your concerns. in the end we have no idea how much of what he says and do/done is really all just political maneuvering. -
What is your point? you specifically said " well then its not chinese culture you have to learn ..." You have not answer why chinese culture is not what I have to learn.Originally posted by hisoka:firstly i said its not chinese culture we have to learn as in chinese is not THE culture we have to learn as implied by the claims of learning YOUR cultural roots. as you said learnign about which culture first is your choice.
You have not answered my question on how to reduce racial differences. Human being must know the difference, accept the difference and respect the difference. Ignoring the difference will not reduce the differences.
racism, ok maybe i used the wrong word racism since its too specific but the point stand on reducing difference, i am advocating a mass ignoring/forgeting of the difference quoted and not a individual thus it wont become an ostrich sticking head into sand as you seem to think so.
It is amusing how a person who adocate "a mass ignoring/forgeting of the difference" would be asking if I were "purely chinese". Whether I have any blood other chinese blood in me is of no significance, what really matters is that my grand parents came from china and I was brought up a chinese. Whether the 1.3 billion chinese and another 50 million overseas ethnic chinese are descendents of African, (and how did that happen) is of little significance. No chinese will change their names to african names and dance the african dance, just because your scientist say that chinese can trace their roots to africa.
regarding ethnicity, i guess your point would stand but i'm slightly clueless to what purpose knowing you are different will serve. in addition, not insult or wahtever but are you sure you are purely chinese? otherwise you might not be ethnically chinese in the first place and the only viable way to do that would be to go and check the roots thoroughly i guess, not a veyr easy task. 2ndly i guess if we were to believe scientist we were all ethnically or originally african(not sure about the location and am lazy to check specifics, please do not flame me for this) so we all have common root.
LKY show off his chinese language and knowledge of cultures to the overseas chinese, the mainland chinese, not to garner votes !!! Showing others you share the same culture shows you understand them better and this is an advantage in interpersonal relationship, "manipulating pple" is not the word I would use.
okz lky, well showing we are of same origin is also a play to garner votes no? it only shows him manipulating pple who care about common ethnicity. he did it cos he perceived it as a way to garner support which is not possible personally for the other races. oh and it actually does show that he cares becuase of those who cannot speak english and by speakign of chinese history he assures those that care about it like you that he is on the same wavelength and thus sowing concern about your concerns. in the end we have no idea how much of what he says and do/done is really all just political maneuvering.
When a french meet another french, they will switch to their own language in front of us, so do the jap, the german, especially if their english is not so good. That may be a little socially impolite but that is what happen to people who share common languages, I dont call that political maneuvering. What do you speak with your own countryman? african or english? -
Originally posted by sgdiehard:LKY show off his chinese language and knowledge of cultures to the overseas chinese, the mainland chinese, not to garner votes !!! Showing others you share the same culture shows you understand them better and this is an advantage in interpersonal relationship, "manipulating pple" is not the word I would use.
When a french meet another french, they will switch to their own language in front of us, so do the jap, the german, especially if their english is not so good. That may be a little socially impolite but that is what happen to people who share common languages, I dont call that political maneuvering. What do you speak with your own countryman? african or english?
i said its not only chinese culture that we have to learn there there is no cuase to only advocate(or to emphasis) learning chinese culture as is often implied in the messages of learning about your culture etc. i think i did make this point in the sentence structure above maybe you missed it
What is your point? you specifically said " well then its not chinese culture you have to learn ..." You have not answer why chinese culture is not what I have to learn.
[qoute]
You have not answered my question on how to reduce racial differences. Human being must know the difference, accept the difference and respect the difference. Ignoring the difference will not reduce the differences.
[/quote]
answered in the below point just that you chose to refute it, no idea why you decided to break this into a seperate point.
hmm i see no humour since i was actually "going down to your level" so that you can see the point. anyway so i assume you draw the line at your gradparents?so my grandparents came from malaysia so i shoudln't be that bothered about chinese culture? or for that matter those 2nd(or was it 2rd) generation chinese signaporeans will then be able to ignore their "chinese" back ground? have to question what you mean by brought up as a chinese, if you say you were brought up as per all that chinese culture and history stuff then fine, but you should then realise that the chinese singaporean were brought up as singaporeans and not chinese. oh and the blood was actually becuase if you do happen to draw the line further up you family tree what happens if one of the ancestors was an indain for an example so so forth.
It is amusing how a person who adocate "a mass ignoring/forgeting of the difference" would be asking if I were "purely chinese". Whether I have any blood other chinese blood in me is of no significance, what really matters is that my grand parents came from china and I was brought up a chinese. Whether the 1.3 billion chinese and another 50 million overseas ethnic chinese are descendents of African, (and how did that happen) is of little significance. No chinese will change their names to african names and dance the african dance, just because your scientist say that chinese can trace their roots to africa.
oic you meant he show off to other countries, sorry i thought you were refering to internally, my bad. but in this case my point is still correct for showing common ground or concerns so that you can manipulate them better, manipulate is just an different and uglier word but if you want to say advantage so be it, it still doesn't pinpoint towards learning chinese culture etc specifically.
LKY show off his chinese language and knowledge of cultures to the overseas chinese, the mainland chinese, not to garner votes !!! Showing others you share the same culture shows you understand them better and this is an advantage in interpersonal relationship, "manipulating pple" is not the word I would use.
When a french meet another french, they will switch to their own language in front of us, so do the jap, the german, especially if their english is not so good. That may be a little socially impolite but that is what happen to people who share common languages, I dont call that political maneuvering. What do you speak with your own countryman? african or english?
common language is just that, the language you speak in common, doesn't have direct relations to what ethnicity you are. if you are proficient in french and meet a french who doesn't do that well in english you would switch to french no? a french greeting a french in french is just because thats the language they are familiar with nothing more i guess we could say the same in singaporeans conversing in singlish, btw what does this have to do with your chinese push? -
In yr original post on learning chinese, just to refresh yr own memory, u said that "if you say its ethnic sort of thing then i say if we don't have such it would be better since then there would be less barriers to non-racism,..." My answer to you is very clear, if you are not a chinese, don bother to learn chinese!!! If you are a chinese, if you choose not to learn chinese, it is entirely yr choice, but that does not make you less racist!!Originally posted by hisoka:i said its not only chinese culture that we have to learn there there is no cuase to only advocate(or to emphasis) learning chinese culture as is often implied in the messages of learning about your culture etc. i think i did make this point in the sentence structure above maybe you missed it
U then said that " in addition i see no need for ethnic history "understanding" we are singaporeans not china people why should we learn about china peoples' history and culture any more than other countries?" Obviously you do not know the diff between ethnicity and nationality. I encourage singaporean to learn chinese if you are ethnically chinese. If you choose to learn malay or indian language, culture or history, good for you. But do you know anything about culture and history?
The point is that LKY learned chinese language and culture because he knew he had to meet chinese outside of singapore, obviously he did not want to appear as a banana.
oic you meant he show off to other countries, sorry i thought you were refering to internally, my bad. but in this case my point is still correct for showing common ground or concerns so that you can manipulate them better, manipulate is just an different and uglier word but if you want to say advantage so be it, it still doesn't pinpoint towards learning chinese culture etc specifically.
At least you can identify those as 2nd generation chinese singaporeans (it doesn't concern you or me whether they ignore their background or not). I know I were brought in as a chinese and i identify myself as a chinese, not for you to question!!
hmm i see no humour since i was actually "going down to your level" so that you can see the point. anyway so i assume you draw the line at your gradparents?so my grandparents came from malaysia so i shoudln't be that bothered about chinese culture? or for that matter those 2nd(or was it 2rd) generation chinese signaporeans will then be able to ignore their "chinese" back ground? have to question what you mean by brought up as a chinese, if you say you were brought up as per all that chinese culture and history stuff then fine, but you should then realise that the chinese singaporean were brought up as singaporeans and not chinese. oh and the blood was actually becuase if you do happen to draw the line further up you family tree what happens if one of the ancestors was an indain for an example so so forth
don need to go on yr knee, if you don't know how you were brought up and if your parents can't tell you who you are, no body can help you.
Carry on with yr singlish...
common language is just that, the language you speak in common, doesn't have direct relations to what ethnicity you are. if you are proficient in french and meet a french who doesn't do that well in english you would switch to french no? a french greeting a french in french is just because thats the language they are familiar with nothing more i guess we could say the same in singaporeans conversing in singlish, btw what does this have to do with your chinese push? -
I think more like Singlish than English. I feel like puking everytime I hear such people talk.Originally posted by tranquilice:Their parents are partly to be blamed. They communicate with their children in English.