Human right group. Shut up for our death penalty system !
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On humanitarian grounds, I am not comfortable with the death penalty.
However, I strongly believe that Singapore must be ruled by Singaporeans and if the majority of Singapoireans are in favour of it, I wouldn't give a damn as to what foreigners think.
I am in favour of giving judges the discretion whether or not to impose the death sentence rather than making it mandatory for everything under the sun. What we should have is a referendum (I know that is a bad word in Singapore)...but as long as the majority of Singaporeans are for it, having heard both sides of the argument, I will support it, my apprehensions notwithstanding.
The laws of the land should reflect the sentiments of the society. Unfortunately, I feel our government has lost touch with the ground and the only way to know how Singaporeans feel about this issue is to have a referendum. -
Originally posted by LazerLordz:
have you ever consider what drugs will do to the younger generations. where did all these drugs come from?
At times like these..you can't help but feel for his sons.
Whether he has committed a crime is moot, the fact is that the State is Killing their father before their very eyes.My prayers are with them and we who have any goodness inside should pray for his two sons.
It's sickening to kill someone because of a presumed future death or loss of lifespan in consuming drugs.This is not even pre-mediated murder, and drugs are not fatal anyway.The death penalty for drug trafficking is ultimately a sinful law and one that must be made illegal worldwide for the mere reason that the [b]actual act of trafficking is not murder.[/b] -
the govt will never set a precedence by allowing a referendum.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:On humanitarian grounds, I am not comfortable with the death penalty.
However, I strongly believe that Singapore must be ruled by Singaporeans and if the majority of Singapoireans are in favour of it, I wouldn't give a damn as to what foreigners think.
I am in favour of giving judges the discretion whether or not to impose the death sentence rather than making it mandatory for everything under the sun. What we should have is a referendum (I know that is a bad word in Singapore)...but as long as the majority of Singaporeans are for it, having heard both sides of the argument, I will support it, my apprehensions notwithstanding.
The laws of the land should reflect the sentiments of the society. Unfortunately, I feel our government has lost touch with the ground and the only way to know how Singaporeans feel about this issue is to have a referendum. -
Yes, there is harm to the kids.But strictly speaking, is blood spilled or a life ended on the spot when someone consumes drugs?People take pot all the time and they are still alive.Originally posted by dragg:have you ever consider what drugs will do to the younger generations. where did all these drugs come from?
I'm not promoting drug use, but we need to view these two issues in a proper light. -
The proper light is death penalty for them. So that they can see the light in heaven. Maybe there is no more suffering in the next world. They enjoy with sex, woman, fill with joy ! Isn't it good ?
The problem of drugs is that they kill people in the end. So it's call murder.
SO you say must take a lot of time then will died. So no need death penalty lah. They should win award giving by the LKY huh ? Because creative and earning money right ? See Murder them in other way and learning to earn a lot of money ! When they need more drugs. Just raise the price ! WOW ! LKY should give them award leh. And name them as true SON, Daughter of Singapore ! -
Because it is profitable, People get hook. Raise the price and get more profit as they need it ! Please........ you think they drug traficking to safe mankind from over populating ? Pls think seriously twice !Originally posted by PRP:Sky,
Good that u are supporter of fighting crime.But there is death pernalty,why are there still many ppl commit drug traficking?Pls think seriously. -
Sigh.I do not wish to comprehend how your mind works.Originally posted by skyline63:The proper light is death penalty for them. So that they can see the light in heaven. Maybe there is no more suffering in the next world. They enjoy with sex, woman, fill with joy ! Isn't it good ?
The problem of drugs is that they kill people in the end. So it's call murder.
SO you say must take a lot of time then will died. So no need death penalty lah. They should win award giving by the LKY huh ? Because creative and earning money right ? See Murder them in other way and learning to earn a lot of money ! When they need more drugs. Just raise the price ! WOW ! LKY should give them award leh. And name them as true SON, Daughter of Singapore !
Drugs harm the body, but may not cause death.Murder is killing and instant death, pure and simple.Make that distinction clear..because there are many out there who cannot look beyond the propaganda.
Both are crimes, but one is dealing with killing someone, while the other is a conjecture that has been over-exploited. -
Drug addicts pay money willingly to buy drugs.So u blame drug sellers?Originally posted by dragg:the 600 grams of drugs in turn can harm a lot of people too!! -
If there are no drug takers,there is no drug traffickers.Originally posted by skyline63:Because it is profitable, People get hook. Raise the price and get more profit as they need it ! Please........ you think they drug traficking to safe mankind from over populating ? Pls think seriously twice !
Why selling cigarettes is legal? -
Drug trffickers commit the crime because of money. They get hang for getting money.
Manslaughters kill ppl because of their emotions but ppl are killled by them.The don't get hang.
This is the kind of law we have.PAP is proud of it! -
The law is bad & wrong in the first place.I'm asking the law to be changed.Originally posted by czechmate:Emotions aside - the severity of the punishment for trafficking in drugs is not something that is written in miniscule script on stone buried deep in the recesses of our reclaimed land. How can you blame a country for carrying out its laws when people know the repercussions but commit the crime all the same?
Ok ... so are people here advocating then that as long as the reason given is that the financial situation in one's family is verging desperation it is permissible and excusable to commit a crime and be released with a slap on the wrist, regardless of the severity of the crime? -
Originally posted by PRP:
Well put.
[b]Drug trffickers commit the crime because of money. They get hang for getting money.
Manslaughters kill ppl because of their emotions but ppl are killled by them.The don't get hang.
This is the kind of law we have.PAP is proud of it![/b] -
Originally posted by PRP:
There is no justice. When there is no law. Death penalty is a necessary for all. Because all died. Only death they fear. LOCK-UP is nothing at all ! The whole is fill with people. Only death fear them all ! That is the law of justice. Once and for all !
[b]Drug trffickers commit the crime because of money. They get hang for getting money.
Manslaughters kill ppl because of their emotions but ppl are killled by them.The don't get hang.
This is the kind of law we have.PAP is proud of it![/b]
They want to get rich. On other people's death. Because drug kill. No matter how long it take. Direct or indirect death is still around. So hanging them is alright to them ! We should continue as the old ways ! Look at USA where there is least death penalty. People shoot one another for free ! No need death penalty. I don't mind shoot PRP ! Because PRP is a chow chee bye to me ! -
The law is bad for PRP. If death penalty is not there. I don't mind PAY $$$ find out who is PRP and murder his whole family ! It's a enjoyment to kill someone and have power over it. LOOK how PRP cry b4 his death is funny ! Right ! Better to kill all his love one in his face and let him cry like puppy ! That is call FUNNY ! TO me it's a enjoyment and sex ! Make me high high high !
Why not right as it is funny ! If there is no death penalty ! Lock-up is nothing ! You can always run away when you got money.
Look at Malaysia and you see ! With money even murderous get free ! How good will that be ! -
NO one is comfort when death penalty. Becauuse like me always never comfort because if feel like doing murder all the time in my life ! And I pray everyday that I can kill someone for free ! Why not right ? It's like the old china days like Kung fu leh ! Chop off the head and sent to their family. When they open cry like a dog. Look at their face be happy ! That is the power of enjoyment for all !
So............ there is a need for justice. For people like me. Because I don't mind first murder PRP father with a knife to his COCK. Then a knife to his mother CB. Then rape his sister and throw her down the block. Then Kill his brother asking him to cry on his feet ! Finally for PRP ! Hang him upside down and cut him into half ! Because when the blood all in the brain. Most pain and death slow right ?
So......... if you see there is a need for death penalty ! -
Originally posted by PRP:
Those that traffic drugs were hanged because of their greed for money in the expense of other people's suffering. Those that commit murder were hanged because they get satisfaction in the expense of other people's dealth.
[b]Drug trffickers commit the crime because of money. They get hang for getting money.
Manslaughters kill ppl because of their emotions but ppl are killled by them.The don't get hang.
This is the kind of law we have.PAP is proud of it![/b]
Manslaughters is an entire different story because they killed someone without incurring any satisfaction, in another words, dealth was delivered accidentally, unconsciously, not knowingly. These people deserve heavy penalty but not dealth.
Of course in some cases there is a thin line between manslaughter and murder thats why we need law to differentiate under legitimate means. We know that law is not flawless but for very distinct case such as drug trafficking, once the person is judged to be guilty in the sense that he commited the offence knowingly under conscious mind, he should be hang.
This is society utility. -
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well done, couldn't have said it better.Originally posted by foxtrout8:Those that traffic drugs were hanged because of their greed for money in the expense of other people's suffering. Those that commit murder were hanged because they get satisfaction in the expense of other people's dealth.
Manslaughters is an entire different story because they killed someone without incurring any satisfaction, in another words, dealth was delivered accidentally, unconsciously, not knowingly. These people deserve heavy penalty but not dealth.
Of course in some cases there is a thin line between manslaughter and murder thats why we need law to differentiate under legitimate means. We know that law is not flawless but for very distinct case such as drug trafficking, once the person is judged to be guilty in the sense that he commited the offence knowingly under conscious mind, he should be hang.
This is society utility. -
skyline63, I realize that your language can be a little offensive to some and would prevent others from having an objective discussion with you. While you have your points, perhaps you can find means to articulate them in a more pleasant manner.
Dear all, please do assist each other during posting. Try to refrain from using words or symbols that will incite a flame war of sorts. What we aim here is SC is not aimless chatter, rather, we want to debate our views freely in a manner befitting of matured adults. -
Lazerlordz and iveco: Unless you can provide evidence to the contrary, this thread shouldn't be lcoked.
His ranting and raving is aslo every entertaining
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Personally Lazerlordz your arguments is completely flawed, basing itrself more on emotions than on logic.
If a child grows up to take revenge for the death of the father, who is legally executed for committing a crime, that makes him no better than his father, for by his actions he is condoning the crime his father did. That it is his obligation to take revenge is nonsense- our notions of fillial piety DO NOT extend that far. If you follow your father into crime, you are not only bringing harm to your country, society but also to your family as well.
A truly righteous and morally upright son will realise what his father has done wrong and move on, learning not to make the same mistake. That is true fillial piety, and letting his mind be clouded by destructive notions is not.
Don't try to justify revenge. -
The topic has slightly shifted. The emphasis is now no longer on human rights group and the death penalty. Rather, it is the substantiation of our current death penalty system.
I take a pragmatic stand.
As mentioned by foxtrout8, the law is a society utility. Thus, the law is the extent to which the country values the rights of the society in contrast to the rights of the individual and this varies from country to country. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), a small country like Singapore takes into account the rights of the society to a great extent.
As such, it must be realised that the law does not only serve justice onto individuals who infringe the law but what message does it send to the current public and/or possible offenders. I do realise that it is possibly an act of desperation (thus, a mitigating factor) to drive the dad to traffic drugs. However, although it is understandable due to the current economic situation in Singapore (another topic for another day ), it may not be forgivable on the legislation's part to provide an alternative to the proposed well-used drug laws.
Should he be given life imprisonment and leniency for his mitigating factors (there are many including his service to the nation), the message sent out would be that if you are poor and desperate with an insufficient ability to provide for your family, it is allowed to import drugs. The debate should not be whether drugs are detrimental to the current populace (that issue has been settled when the drug laws are made) but what would future offenders do. In making such a decision, a precedence would have been set in case law which intelligent lawyers would pounce on. Thus, there may be increasing cases where poor people who do the same thing. This in turn would result in a vicious cycle as each successive leniency case would lend strength for future leniency. This is very clear.
In addition, although I have not been following the above mentioned case on its daily reports, an important factor has not been discussed in this subforum. This would be has the dad been doing this several times? or is it an one-off? Obviously, this cannot be proven (at least in Singapore) because if its several times, he would've already been dealt with. However, such a possibility cannot be ignored which raises the issue. If he has done it more than once, why didn't he stop? The money earned initially would've been sufficient to tide him over so he could get a job (many low-end jobs are still currently available). He may not be happy about the pay, but at least he would have earnings. Neither would he have an easy life. Unfortunately, he decided to take a rather dubious route....which is to traffic drugs.
Assuming its a first-time offense, if he is given a lighter sentence. Would he be tempted to try it again? Afterall, it is an easy way to get money. Or would his sons feel that it is ALSO an easy way?
Therefore, I conclude that the law's hands are tied on this. If you have committed such an offense, it has already been stated time and time again and clearly that this would be the sentence you will get. There are no two ways to this. The only solution would be a revamp on the law and that would not happen in the near future.
Long essay la
Hope don't fall asleep when you finish
Comments? -
very good. i thought you are only good at provoking!!Originally posted by Werewolf:The topic has slightly shifted. The emphasis is now no longer on human rights group and the death penalty. Rather, it is the substantiation of our current death penalty system.
I take a pragmatic stand.
As mentioned by foxtrout8, the law is a society utility. The extent to which the country values the rights of the society in contrast to the rights of the individual varies from country to country. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), a small country like Singapore takes into account the rights of the society to a great extent.
As such, it must be realised that the law does not only serve justice onto individuals who infringe the law but what message does it send to the current public and/or possible offenders. I do realise that it is possibly an act of desperation (thus, a mitigating factor) to drive the dad to traffic drugs. However, although it is understandable due to the current economic situation in Singapore (another topic for another day ), it may not be forgivable on the legislation's part to provide an alternative to the proposed well-used drug laws.
Should he be given life imprisonment and leniency for his mitigating factors (there are many including his service to the nation), the message sent out would be that if you are poor and desperate with an insufficient ability to provide for your family, it is allowed to import drugs. The debate should not be whether drugs are detrimental to the current populace (that issue has been settled when the drug laws are made) but what would future offenders do. In making such a decision, a precedence would have been set in case law which intelligent lawyers would pounce on. Thus, there may be increasing cases where poor people who do the same thing. This in turn would result in a vicious cycle as each successive leniency case would lend strength for future leniency. This is very clear.
In addition, although I have not been following the above mentioned case on its daily reports, an important factor has not been discussed in this subforum. This would be has the dad been doing this several times? or is it an one-off? Obviously, this cannot be proven (at least in Singapore) because if its several times, he would've already been dealt with. However, such a possibility cannot be ignored which raises the issue. If he has done it more than once, why didn't he stopped? The money earned initially would've been sufficient to tide him over so he could get a job (many low-end jobs are still currently available). He may not be happy about the pay, but at least he would have earnings. Neither would he have an easy life. Unfortunately, he decided to take a rather dubious route....which is to traffic drugs.
Assuming its a first-time offense, if he is given a lighter sentence. Would he be tempted to try it again? Afterall, it is an easy way to get money. Or would his sons feel that it is ALSO an easy way?
Therefore, I conclude that the law's hands are tied on this. If you have committed such an offense, it has already been stated time and time again and clearly that this would be the sentence you will get. There are no two ways to this. The only solution would be a revamp on the law and that would not happen in the near future.
Long essay la
Hope don't fall asleep when you finish
Comments?
*grab chocolate* -
No lahOriginally posted by dragg:very good. i thought you are only good at provoking!!
*grab chocolate*
To provoke ppl, must have logical argument ma
I must admit, I twisted the things around a little on that jacky coz I want him to see that he was online being whiney and complaining about others....
Btw, what's da chocolate about?